| janfields |
March 28, 2008: Night
Open Forum begins in five minutes. This is open topic so be ready
with your writing questions in five minutes for your webeditor Jan
Fields.
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| janfields |
Night Open Forum with
webeditor Jan Fields will begin in two minutes -- so prepare to
receive pontification.
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| janfields |
Welcome to Friday Night
Open Forum. I have a couple email questions to dispatch, then we
shall see if any others come popping in...we can but
hope.
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| janfields |
Flounderfoot: Is it
acceptable procedure for an agent agency to require a professional
critique before they will accept a manuscript to pitch to publishers
or is it a scam? They provide a critique writer for a fee but accept
outside critiques. They do not charge for selling a book until the
book is under contract when they require 10%. Is this the going rate
for agents?
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| janfields |
Good question. No, it's
not considered okay for an agent to require a professional critique.
When I had an agent, he critiqued my first manuscript EXTENSIVELY
before he was willing to take it on...but he didn't charge for it or
suggest I go get a paid critique. With reputable agents, if they see
something they love in a piece...they may suggest changes and ask
you to get back to them when you do them. Or they may suggest you
get the piece critiqued before shopping it around anymore (which
means it has some fairly serious problems but the agent doesn't have
time to work through them with you -- so it's basically a rejection,
but one intended to help keep you from being rejected by the NEXT
agent.). If the whole piece is wonderful story-wise, but you have
serious spelling and punctuation problems, he may recommend you get
it proofread and get back to him.
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| janfields |
But the only folks I
know who are saying: "Go get a professional critique" or edit or
anything like "Go spend money and then get back to me" -- those
folks you should avoid, especially if they do critiques themselves
for a fee. And Agent should not critique for a fee -- period. Not
unless they're doing them at a conference or something as a favor
for the conference folks and thus doing it for a small fee.
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| janfields |
Agents who say, I do
paid critiques but you don't have to use me -- are basically making
THEIR money from paid critiques. If you do go get one from someone
else, the agent will read the piece and say -- it's nice but it
doesn't totally work for me, good luck with someone else. That's
because they don't want to take on a client who isn't paying upfront
in some way. And most of these folks then go on to never submit
anywhere or they mass submit (which is basically no better than if
you shotgun your manuscript out to everyone).
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| janfields |
I would recommend ANY
agent you're considering...check them out with writer beware. Those
folks have a database of all the agents doing stunts like this. And
they can tell you if the agent seems to have ever made a sale (most
who take money from clients, never make sales -- so they dump their
clients on ebook publishers or other places where agents aren't
needed.) The website for Writer Beware is
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/ and you can simply email them at
beware@sfwa.org -- they are wonderful helpful
folks.
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| janfields |
Okay, that's my first
question from email. I have another.
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| janfields |
email: I know picture
books are mostly 32 pages...but how does the editor look at page
length since some of that is end matter?
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| janfields |
Well, the actual "page
count" of a picture book will always be a multiple of 8 because of
the need to use complete signatures (the HUGE sheets of paper from
which picture books are cut) to keep costs down. So publishing
generally talks about the complete page counts as that has meaning
to publishers (it tells them things about cost, for example). But
you are completely correct that end matter normally uses up part of
these pages -- though not always. I've seen picture books where the
story starts on the title page, continues on the copyright page and
the dedication page and actually end on the very last page. So 32
pages is every sheet of paper in the book -- and most of those pages
will be full of story, but not all.
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| janfields |
But certainly, part of
the 32 pages will be title page and copyright page/dedication page
and end pages. All the sheets cut from the
signature.
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| janfields |
If you're not an
illustrator, you normally don't need to think about how these pages
shake out. What a writer has to think about is whether the story
needs at least 13 very different illustrations to unfold
well.
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| janfields |
A writer has to think
about how balanced the story will be through out (for example if 5
of your illustrations come out of one line of text, and then you
have large pieces where nothing is changing, most editors are going
to be uncomfortable with the balance of the book. Young children
like stories that keep the pages turning.
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| janfields |
So editors sort the pages
out according to the needs of the story and illustrator (and editors
do have to decide which pages will have end matter on them so they
do need to think about the WHOLE page count,) but they don't really
think that way when they are first reading the manuscript. At that
point they are just checking for balance and the openness of the
book -- meaning whether the book really needs that marriage of text
and illustration.
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| janfields |
Okay, I know that was a
huge gob of fast text.
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| janfields |
But if anyone in chat
has a question...I promise to answer in smaller
bites.
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| coloradokate |
May I legally scan
stories (mine) published in mags (not mine) and email them to my
friends?
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| janfields |
Yes, and
no
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| janfields |
If you have a few
friends who want to see the piece...you can scan and
send.
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| janfields |
If you need to scan the
piece to send as a clip for a publisher, you can scan and
send.
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| janfields |
If you want to send it
to your graduating high school class, cause they need to see nanny
nanny that we do get published.
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| janfields |
The probably pushes
fair use a little hard.
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| janfields |
But you own the copy
you bought (or got as a contrib copy)
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| janfields |
so you can scan select
pages for a few friends.
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| janfields |
That's consider
okay.
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| janfields |
It's not, by the way,
considered okay to scan it for a whole classroom of
kids
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| janfields |
For part of a school
visit.
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| janfields |
Because we aren't the
copyright holder of the illustrations.
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| janfields |
Or the magazine format
on the page.
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| cathie |
is there is listing of
online magazines for children anywhere you know of?
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| janfields |
I don't know of one. We
have most of the one's I'm aware of in the list at
http://www.kidmagwriters.com
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| janfields |
In the drop down menu
at the top of the page
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| janfields |
But it's a mix of
online magazine and the online prescence of print
magazines.
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| janfields |
I would think a list of
strictly online mags would be fairly short.
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| janfields |
I'd make one up for the
enews...but I mentioned an online magazine in the enews
once
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| janfields |
Rainbow
Rumpus
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| janfields |
Which publishes stories
for kids who have gay, lesbian, etc parents.
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| janfields |
And I got reader mail
that was...um...distressed.
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| janfields |
Not a lot of it...but
still.
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| jan_fields |
For the transcript, Dell
got her illustrator sketches for her upcoming picture book and
they're terrific.
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| jan_fields |
Oh, the promo queen says
to remember to tell y'all that it's called STAR OF THE
SHOW
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| janfields |
And I am certain it's
going to be super...cause, that's just a given.
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| coloradokate |
Your notice about the
upcoming guest chat reminds me of a discussion I was reading on a
writers' list about authors paying for reviews... is that for real?
What good would be a review that the author
subsidized???
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| janfields |
Sometimes
self-published writers don't understand the actual purpose of a
review.
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| janfields |
A review is for the
reader, not the author.
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| janfields |
To point readers toward
good books that might be of interest.
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| janfields |
And to warn readers of
books with serious flaws.
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| janfields |
But some review
entities have discovered there is a lot of money to be made from
self-published authors.
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| janfields |
So they have begun
reviewing those books (where they never did before) -- for a
fee.
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| janfields |
Unfortunately, you pay
the fee, you get a review (that is usually fairly generous, but not
a flat out lie, so it can feel really harsh to the
author)
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| janfields |
but the reviews often
go in a totally separate publication or list.
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| janfields |
One specifically for
PAID FOR reviews.
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| janfields |
Which automatically
means book sellers and major buyers are going to consider the
reviews suspect
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| janfields |
And it means the
reviews won't usually find their way to readers.
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| janfields |
So...basically...it's
kind of a new way to separate writers from their
money
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| janfields |
without giving them
much of anything
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| janfields |
AND it doesn't help
readers either.
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| dell |
How far in advance of
publication do books get sent out for review?
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| janfields |
It depends. To the
major reviewers, they can sometimes come out way ahead...half a year
even.
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| janfields |
I review for a very
very very very minor review site
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| janfields |
So we tend to get books
really late...almost to publication time.
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| janfields |
And even I've reviewed
books four or more months before publication.
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| janfields |
Some of the really
early sent novel arcs have a stunny array of
errors.
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| janfields |
And some interesting
omissions.
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| janfields |
I reviewed one before
any of the art was done...and it turned out a MAJOR part of the plot
was revealled in illustrations.
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| janfields |
So it was a kind of
"guess what this book is about" review opportunity.
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| janfields |
Smaller publishers send
books MUCH closer to press time.
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| janfields |
I've gotten
folded-and-gathered pages really close to publication time for some
picture books from smaller houses.
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| dell |
what is the name of your
very very very very minor review site? :)
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| janfields |
I do kid's books for
myshelf.com
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| janfields |
They actually have some
"name" for mysteries...and a lot of traffic for mystery
readers.
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| janfields |
Not so much for kid's
books.
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| gonewest |
Have you ever had
Victoria L. Schmidt for a chat?
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| gonewest |
I just got her
book/workbook in a month
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| janfields |
Nope, but if you think
she's nifty...I'll look her up :-)
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| janfields |
Not that I've memorized
every transcript from before my time
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| janfields |
But I don't recognize
the name as a past chat guest.
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| janfields |
Oh...about
reviews.
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| janfields |
When a book goes to a
reviewer also depends upon who the reviewer
services.
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| janfields |
Reviewers like Horn
Book, Kirkus and the like
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| janfields |
Who service mass book
buyers like libraries (and sometimes book sellers)
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| janfields |
tend to go out early to
give time for the reader to have heard of the book when buying time
rolls around.
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| janfields |
While reviews that are
reader targetted, they're published later.
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| janfields |
Because readers want to
read a review, then go buy the book
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| janfields |
So you don't need so
much lead time.
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| dell |
what percentage of books
that you receive do you actually review?
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| janfields |
I review all the books
that come to me.
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| janfields |
SOMETIMES...my editor
asks me to send the book back so she can find someone
who...um...will say nice thing.
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| janfields |
So, we've come to a
kind of compromise...and mostly I don't do the self-published
books.
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| janfields |
I've read some that I
thought were good, but lots that really we're appropriate to ask
folks to pay for.
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| janfields |
The rule at many review
places is "don't trash the book"
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| janfields |
so if you can write
about what you liked and what you hated...in balance...it's
good.
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| janfields |
But if you can't find
ANYTHING good...they won't run the review.
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| janfields |
There have been a few
books that went to a number of different reviewers and finally never
got reviewed.
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| janfields |
Sometimes...well, it's
not just subjective.
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| dell |
Do you have any recent
PBs that you reviewed and loved?
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| janfields |
I read one called (I
think) The Two Ballerinas
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| janfields |
We're going from my
cheese brain memory
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| janfields |
About two ballerina's
from a magical music box
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| janfields |
and how they taught a
woman about truly being a friend.
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| janfields |
It was a lovely
book...I liked it a lot and my daughter liked it.
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| janfields |
I read all picture
books to her, because sometimes the ones I really don't like
much
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| janfields |
she can find nice
things to say about -- she's way nicer to writers who aren't
me.
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| jan_fields |
mirmarswishes: Jan, is
there a certain way to use references when writing?
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| janfields |
Most of the time in
nonfiction article writing for kids, you won't mention the source
when you give the facts...so no references in text most of the
time.
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| janfields |
That's because the word
counts are so short.
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| janfields |
In picture book
nonfiction, same thing...usually no reference to the source...just
giving the info.
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| janfields |
In longer nonfiction,
often you'll intro a reference with something like "In an article
written shortly after the expeditions return to the states, Matthew
Henson said, "blah blah blah"
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| janfields |
So, you're referencing
in the text, but it's not like an academic
reference
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| janfields |
For young readers, the
reference tends to be less important than the info.
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| janfields |
Which sometimes makes
me crazy, and I'll be reading kid nonfiction and yell....says
who!!
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| janfields |
About some
controversial look at a subject
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| janfields |
And the reference isn't
given in the text.
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| janfields |
In adult
nonfiction...depending upon how "serious" the media, sometimes
you'll see a reference "Shortly after his retirement, Bob Actor told
TIME magazine, "blah blah blah"
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| janfields |
Thanks for coming to
Night Forum. See ya next Tuesday afternoon for our regularly
scheduled hang out
time.
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