| janfields |
Afternoon open forum
begins in three minutes...just letting you know :-)
|
| janfields |
Welcome to February 12,
Afternoon Forum. I'm ready to answer whatever you have to
ask.
|
| janfields |
Okay, today I want to
start by pontificating on writers and money.
|
| janfields |
Personally, I think if
you get published, you deserve to get paid.
|
| janfields |
Now, there are
exceptions...you might write something for your kid's
school.
|
| janfields |
For a charity
event.
|
| janfields |
You might turn your
grandmother's family stories into a coherent
narrative
|
| janfields |
and publish it through
lulu.com
|
| janfields |
But if you enter into a
professional relationship with a publisher
|
| janfields |
You deserve to get
paid.
|
| janfields |
I do not believe that
working for free is part of the whole business of "learning the
ropes"
|
| janfields |
or "paying your
dues."
|
| janfields |
Now, that might seem
weird, considering I run an emagazine that doesn't
pay.
|
| janfields |
I recognize that I'm on
very shakey philosophical ground there.
|
| janfields |
But I don't think
anyone who writes for Kid Magazine Writers is paying their
dues.
|
| janfields |
They aren't getting
anything huge out of writing for free.
|
| janfields |
They are doing me a
favor, and a favor for other children's writers.
|
| janfields |
Personally, I think if
you're giving away your work, you're doing someone a
favor...
|
| janfields |
and maybe they ought to
grovel just a smidge.
|
| janfields |
Because if you're worth
publishing, you're worth paying.
|
| janfields |
A lot of writers don't
start out by sending to Highlights, for example, because they feel
like they haven't "paid their dues"
|
| janfields |
Forget that...if you've
read Highlights and your story is a good fit...send
it.
|
| janfields |
Never sell yourself
short.
|
| janfields |
Okay, pontification
over.
|
| janfields |
kicking away
soapbox.
|
| janfields |
I just don't want you
to undersell yourself.
|
| janfields |
And I don't like the
current trend toward publishers seeing writers as not worth
paying.
|
| soradina |
What happened this week
Jan? Did you not get paid?
|
| janfields |
Oh, no...I always get
paid.
|
| janfields |
I'm onery that
way.
|
| janfields |
No, I just get sad when
I see good writers taken advantage of.
|
| ccollier |
Once Upon a Time magazine
has never paid their writers yet
|
| janfields |
That's true, but there
is another case of a publisher who know full well you're doing her a
favor.
|
| janfields |
She won't bull-poop
(family chat and all) you about how much she's doing for your
career.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes a niche
magazine simply cannot pay.
|
| janfields |
And you have to decide
whether you want to do them a favor -- because that's what you're
doing.
|
| janfields |
What really annoys me
is seeing educational magazine who don't pay
contributors.
|
| janfields |
Some of them want ALL
RIGHTS...and pay NOTHING.
|
| janfields |
But they charge for the
magazine.
|
| janfields |
Most of the time you
can find out the circulation of the magazine pretty
easily.
|
| janfields |
It'll often be in the
market guide
|
| janfields |
If the magazine has a
decent circulation and charges...you really ought to be
paid.
|
| janfields |
And if they don't
pay...make sure they hug you a lot.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes you might
just really approve of what they do...so you want to take part --
that's fine.
|
| janfields |
It's a charitable act
on your part.
|
| janfields |
But don't think it's
something you HAVE to do.
|
| janfields |
Because good writing is
worth good money.
|
| soradina |
that's why there was a
writer's strike in Hollywood
|
| janfields |
That's true...and you
know something sad.
|
| janfields |
Some of those striking
writers have tried to pitch novels
|
| janfields |
or short stories during
the strike...for some money.
|
| janfields |
And they discovered you
cannot live on a novel advance or short story
payment.
|
| janfields |
And these are people
who are striking because they couldn't make enough
money...
|
| janfields |
and they find out our
side of the writing world is in even worse shape than they
are.
|
| janfields |
Some of this we've done
to ourselves by being so GRATEFUL for publication.
|
| janfields |
Publication is
great.
|
| janfields |
I love
readers.
|
| janfields |
But if you write at a
publishable level, you deserve to be paid.
|
| janfields |
If you aren't getting
paid, make sure you're doing it for a heart
reason...
|
| janfields |
not because you think
you have to for the business.
|
| soradina |
I'm very selective about
who I will submit to without
|
| soradina |
expecting
payment.
|
| janfields |
Good for you...that's
how we need to be.
|
| janfields |
Now, sometimes I've
written for free...heck, I do it every month at KMW
|
| janfields |
but I wouldn't do it
for a for-profit publication.
|
| janfields |
Not unless that
publication was secretly owned by my mother-in-law
|
| janfields |
or the publisher was
extorting money by using photos taken of me in high school as black
mail.
|
| janfields |
If I'm helping the
publisher make money, I wanna have some.
|
| janfields |
Now, another place you
have to watch about getting paid is newspapers.
|
| janfields |
Newspapers are
notorious for "forgetting" to pay you
|
| janfields |
or "accidentally"
thinking your work is a present.
|
| janfields |
For them, you'll nearly
always have to invoice to get them cough up money.
|
| janfields |
But again -- they make
a profit, they need to pay writers.
|
| janfields |
When they have
*forgotten* to pay me...they say it's an accident.
|
| janfields |
And they do get a huge
amount of material that they are not expect to pay
for...
|
| janfields |
press
releases
|
| janfields |
community
bulletins
|
| janfields |
letters to the
editor
|
| janfields |
So, mistakes can be
made...but they tend (in my experience) to have "accidentally not
pay"
|
| janfields |
as the
default
|
| janfields |
unless you
invoice...sometimes more than once.
|
| janfields |
Never be afraid to
invoice for payment if the check seems to be slow
coming.
|
| janfields |
From any
publisher.
|
| janfields |
It won't get you put
down on the "greedy" list or anything.
|
| janfields |
You should be paid
within two weeks of when they say.
|
| janfields |
If they say they pay on
acceptance...you should get a check in a couple weeks of signing the
contract
|
| janfields |
If they say they pay on
publication, you should get a check within a couple weeks of the
publication date.
|
| janfields |
Depending...if you're
outside the US ...the mail may slow it up, so add time
accordingly.
|
| janfields |
I've had publishers
include checks with the author copies of the
magazine
|
| janfields |
But these days, they
are often separate.
|
| monkee |
Is Craig's List is
devaluing our entire profession with all
|
| monkee |
those postings asking for
free writing that people respond
|
| monkee |
to?
|
| janfields |
No, the folks doing the
devaluing are the ones writing for free...
|
| janfields |
it's normal for folks
to want to get as much as they can for as little as
possible.
|
| janfields |
That's human
nature.
|
| janfields |
We love a
bargain.
|
| janfields |
But we're the
producers.
|
| janfields |
Without us, there is no
product...so we're the ones who need to guard the value of
that.
|
| janfields |
So, don't buy into the
"you must write for free when starting out" stuff.
|
| janfields |
You want to know how
much I was paid for my FIRST magazine piece?
|
| janfields |
Over one thousand
dollars -- first ever magazine published piece.
|
| janfields |
Being your first,
doesn't make it worthless.
|
| janfields |
Don't let anyone tell
you otherwise...if it's ready to be published, it's ready to be paid
for.
|
| janfields |
Now, you probably won't
grab a thousand for your first published piece.
|
| janfields |
I probably wouldn't
either today...sadly times have changed.
|
| janfields |
Now, having said
that...if you want something published fast.
|
| janfields |
Or an ego
booster...ezines are nice for the ego.
|
| janfields |
They don't normally pay
because...usually no money in means no money out.
|
| janfields |
Some DO pay --
imagination cafe, for example.
|
| janfields |
But many don't...they
can't.
|
| janfields |
And a lot of them are
primarily read by new writers looking for
publishers...
|
| janfields |
so your audience may
not be what you hope.
|
| janfields |
But, they can be nice
practice with the editorial process and fun.
|
| janfields |
But don't give them
something because you feel like you have to...as a first step or
whatever.
|
| janfields |
And if you want to do
something edgier...sometimes, ezines have more relaxed
taboos.
|
| janfields |
So if you have a pet
story that's too edgy for the market, an ezine can be
fun.
|
| janfields |
But again, do it for
reasons other than "breaking in" or "paying your dues"
-
|
| janfields |
And don't do it for
folks who really SHOULD be paying...
|
| janfields |
Okay -- did you enjoy
that rant? I have another? wanna hear it?
|
| janfields |
This one is called...be
a professional.
|
| janfields |
Today, I got a
submission for Kid Magazine Writers.
|
| janfields |
Granted...we don't
pay...we're scum.
|
| janfields |
BUT
|
| janfields |
This submission raved
about the magazine and how much they enjoyed it...
|
| janfields |
then they asked if they
could send their children's fiction story for me to
publish.
|
| janfields |
What's wrong with this
picture?
|
| janfields |
Kid Magazine Writers
only publishes articles about magazine publishing.
|
| janfields |
No fiction for
kiddies.
|
| janfields |
Now, here we are...free
to read.
|
| janfields |
All
online.
|
| janfields |
And people submit
without even SKIMMING our content.
|
| janfields |
Do you know what these
folks chance of being published are?
|
| janfields |
Zip.
|
| janfields |
They spend hours and
hours on the story.
|
| janfields |
Probably the same
amount of time (hopefully) on revision.
|
| janfields |
And then zero time on
paying attention to the market.
|
| janfields |
What sense does that
make?
|
| janfields |
If you want to be
published, the sad truth is that you MUST pay attention to where you
send your work.
|
| janfields |
Research
it.
|
| janfields |
Know what they
publish.
|
| janfields |
Know what they
pay.
|
| janfields |
Know when they pay
it.
|
| janfields |
Know if they are
blood-sucking monsters after your first born.
|
| janfields |
Don't just send things
out willy-nilly.
|
| janfields |
If your work is worth
being published...it's worth the time it takes to research
markets.
|
| janfields |
Yup, I always write
back and say we don't use fiction...we're a magazine about
children's writing.
|
| janfields |
I used to send folks
lectures on researching.
|
| janfields |
But I got back too much
...um....profanity.
|
| janfields |
And they were nice
lectures.
|
| janfields |
Only mildly
pontificatey
|
| janfields |
You want to know why
publishers send neutral form letters?
|
| janfields |
It's so they don't get
letters back suggesting they do things that are anatomically
impossible.
|
| janfields |
If you make nice
suggestions trying to help the person get published...they send back
nastygrams far far far too often.
|
| soradina |
I only submitted to Kid
Magazine Writers when I knew I was
|
| soradina |
answering a specific need
by the editor.
|
| janfields |
Sweetie, you can always
submit to Kid Mag Writers...
|
| janfields |
we may be scum, but
we're needy scum.
|
| janfields |
Though, um, if you send
me fiction...I'm going to swat you with a rolled up
enews.
|
| jan_fields |
will editors remember the
title of a story so that if you rewrite it and the story is dfferent
but you submit to the same publication, should you mention in the
cover letter that this is not the same mss.
|
| janfields |
Maybe...if there was
something really memorable about the story...
|
| janfields |
they may feel some deja
vu.
|
| janfields |
But probably not..and
not just for a title.
|
| janfields |
Honestly, the average
editor sees titles repeated an amazing number of
times.
|
| janfields |
It also depends upon
how quick in succession your sending.
|
| janfields |
If it's six months or
more, that's like a million manuscripts to the
editor.
|
| janfields |
If it's the next month,
you might want to mention it.
|
| janfields |
I would have to mention
it because I bug enough editors that I'm
notorious...
|
| janfields |
I
mean...um...famous
|
| janfields |
so they tend to
remember what I send...but until you have some kind of on-going
relationship
|
| janfields |
you can count on the
editor to forget in the wave of submissions.
|
| jan_fields |
cc could an editor do it
through another editor, jan, fi they were enough of a nut
case>
|
| janfields |
Oh, look, Jan can't
type.
|
| janfields |
tsk
tsk
|
| janfields |
For the record, cc
typed it way better.
|
| janfields |
Anyway, if you send a
nasty reply to an editor's rejection...
|
| janfields |
that editor will
remember your name for a couple months.
|
| janfields |
Depending upon how
creative the nastiness was.
|
| janfields |
And you can count on
the editor talking about your mean reply...but she's do it in a
clumb
|
| janfields |
clump
|
| janfields |
because she gets lots
and lots and lots of nasty mail from writers
|
| janfields |
It's really sad, but
it's true.
|
| janfields |
So, although that
editor will remember the unprofessional author for a little while,
the author will have to really make this a lifestyle to bcome
notorious
|
| janfields |
The publishing business
has an erratic memory.
|
| janfields |
Unless you get yourself
involved in a really big public kurfluffle.
|
| janfields |
Like smearing the
editor on your blog.
|
| janfields |
Or talking about like a
dog on a discussion board.
|
| janfields |
That tends to linger
longer, cause everyone reminds the editor with a -- hey, Julie, did
you see that stuff on VerlaKay's discussion boards?
|
| janfields |
So, "blackballing"
isn't an organized process but you can get a bad reputation based on
your
|
| janfields |
"public
|
| janfields |
internet
behavior.
|
| coloradokate |
If an editor has bought
something from you, how long do you guess s/he will remember
you?
|
| janfields |
Actually, then they
remember you a long time.
|
| janfields |
A couple years after I
sold something to Ladybug,
|
| janfields |
I ran into someone from
the magazine who, when she heard my name, said...I bought something
from you!
|
| janfields |
And she remembered
details of the story.
|
| janfields |
And I recently sold
something else to Ladybug, and a totally different Cricket editor
said
|
| janfields |
Oh, yeah, I heard you
did that really cute story
|
| janfields |
And that's before it's
been published.
|
| janfields |
So, they do remember
what they buy, and if they like it, apparently they talk about
it.
|
| soradina |
That is sad. I just file
my rejection letters and go on to
|
| soradina |
the next thing. I don't
waste my time trying to get in
|
| soradina |
where I'm not
wanted.
|
| janfields |
I think a lot of times
nasty replies come from two things...
|
| janfields |
1. email is way too
easy and fast.
|
| janfields |
So people write things
and send without time to cool off.
|
| janfields |
And 2. this is such a
frustrating business
|
| janfields |
and sometimes you just
wanna unload on someone.
|
| janfields |
Editors actually
understand that.
|
| janfields |
But it still doesn't
make the poop not stink when it gets dumped on you.
|
| soradina |
In applying for work they
always advise not to say anything
|
| soradina |
negative about your
former employer because it can
|
| soradina |
backfire.
|
| janfields |
Yeah, always try to
guard your reputation.
|
| janfields |
You can undo a lot of
good will with one temper tantrum.
|
| janfields |
And do remember, with
email, just because you sent something privately
|
| janfields |
doesn't mean it will
stay private
|
| janfields |
it's just so easy to
pass on an email.
|
| janfields |
And that has come back
to bite some folks too.
|
| janfields |
But for most of us who
aren't making a career out of being obnoxious...you're probably
safe.
|
| janfields |
No blackballs coming
your way.
|
| janfields |
Thanks everyone for
joining me in my pontificating rants.
|
| janfields |
As always...I love you
guys.
|
