| janfields |
Afternoon Open Forum
begins in five minutes with web editor Jan Fields -- come and
chat!
|
| janfields |
Afternoon Open Forum
begins in two minutes with web editor Jan Fields -- it's open topic
so be ready with writing questions of all shapes and
sizes.
|
| janfields |
Welcome to Open Forum
for November 13, we're working with a totally open topic, so
whatever writing questions you have - feel free to
ask.
|
| janfields |
Thanks for checking in
with me today...I have to warn you.
|
| janfields |
It's a short session
for my daughter's school.
|
| janfields |
So if I vanish
suddenly, don't take it personally...just an 8-year-old
catastrophe
|
| soradina |
Jan is Viatouch Story
Station still in business?
|
| janfields |
Ya know...I am not
sure.
|
| janfields |
I've seen folks post on
message boards...
|
| janfields |
uh oh..just a
sec
|
| janfields |
Sorry...daughter
moment
|
| janfields |
Anyway, apparently a
lot of folks are emailing story station
|
| janfields |
and not get
responses...so I dunno.
|
| janfields |
Sorry. Alas, I try so
hard to know everything.
|
| soradina |
I sent a story to them
twice and they haven't responded yet.
|
| janfields |
There's a lot of that
going around...the emails don't bounce
|
| janfields |
But no one seems to get
an answer.
|
| charweb |
Jan, I heard a journalist
using a phrase "intestinal..
|
| charweb |
attitude". I liked the
phrase so much but don't why and...
|
| charweb |
when and how can we use
it?
|
| janfields |
Wow, there's another
new one on me...maybe the journalist made it up.
|
| janfields |
uh
oh...brb
|
| janfields |
The person may have
been making a play on "intestinal fortitude"
|
| janfields |
Which just means
courage...or having the "guts" to do something.
|
| janfields |
So maybe if you have a
lot of courage, you have a good intestinal
attitude.
|
| janfields |
But I would guess the
journalist was coining a new phrase
|
| janfields |
from the preexisting
one.
|
| jan_fields |
rick I have question
about Canadian publishers, does anyone know if they always sell
books in the USA?
|
| janfields |
This one is shorter, so
I'll get it first
|
| janfields |
Actually MOST Canadian
publishers probably don't sell int he USA
|
| janfields |
the
USA
|
| janfields |
because distribution is
expensive.
|
| janfields |
But if they feel the
book will "carry over" you may see some making the
transition.
|
| janfields |
Or the author will have
their book picked up by a US publisher
|
| janfields |
in foreign rights...but
no, they don't always sell in the USA.
|
| mk1 |
I don't fully understand
"high concept" vs "quiet"
|
| janfields |
A "high concept" book
is usually one that can be summed up in a "log
line"
|
| janfields |
meaning a single
sentence that sums up the storyline
|
| janfields |
In a way that makes it
sound exciting or trendy
|
| janfields |
A friend of mine wrote
a "high concept" series which she wrote a log line
of
|
| janfields |
"Party of Five meets
the X-files"
|
| janfields |
So, if a book can be
summed up that way, most would consider it "high
concept"
|
| janfields |
I know Nadia put some
books in the "high concept" catagory that most would not feel
fit
|
| janfields |
Like John Green's work
which is not high concept
|
| janfields |
A quiet book, on the
other hand, tends to be more introspective
|
| janfields |
More focused on
character growth
|
| janfields |
may be more
literary.
|
| janfields |
Would be more in danger
of becoming a "classic"
|
| janfields |
And some publishers
love those kinds of novels.
|
| janfields |
Now, when Nadia was
talking "high concept" vs. "quiet"
|
| janfields |
she was strictly
talking about novels.
|
| janfields |
A quiet picture book is
different.
|
| janfields |
But similar...less
action, more mood, soothing
|
| janfields |
more
lyrical.
|
| charweb |
Do anyone have the future
themelist for Crinckles? ...
|
| charweb |
I'd mailed the editor for
the list few weeks back, but..
|
| charweb |
she didn't
repond.
|
| janfields |
This is a time of year
that a lot of editors are "between theme lists"
|
| janfields |
So you may get very
very very slow responses on theme list requests.
|
| janfields |
And any time you've
waited weeks for an email request
|
| janfields |
You should email
again...email isn't like snail mail.
|
| janfields |
It tends to get lost a
lot more often.
|
| janfields |
Especially in things
like guidelines/theme requests.
|
| janfields |
You probably caught her
in the middle of an update and she didn't get back to you...and then
lost the request.
|
| janfields |
Another tip...anytime
you send an email request
|
| janfields |
Sign it with your name
AND email address
|
| janfields |
In case she prints it
and loses it and finds it...and it no longer has your email address
because it's a print copy.
|
| janfields |
Not all print copies
will have the full email header...with your email
address.
|
| jan_fields |
mk1 What is
Crinkles?
|
| janfields |
Crinkles is a magazine
that focuses on material for gifted kids.
|
| janfields |
Intelligent...tends
toward science-y...very school/curriculum related.
|
| janfields |
Always runs themes, and
likes to see activities with all manuscripts.
|
| janfields |
Doesn't buy much...very
tough market. And they get swamped with
submissions.
|
| janfields |
So I believe they are
pulling out of some market guides.
|
| janfields |
I think they like
working with teachers too...though I don't think it's a requirement
yet.
|
| soleil03 |
i'm new to the forum,
nadia used "(e)" what does that mean?
|
| janfields |
She was just letting me
know she had reached the end of the answer to the
question.
|
| janfields |
So it was my turn to
talk.
|
| janfields |
Our secret code
:-)
|
| janfields |
Mk1 asked about quiet
books, yes, you don't see as many publishers of quiet
books.
|
| janfields |
But some publishers
really specialize in them.
|
| janfields |
And they do tend to be
the books that win awards.
|
| janfields |
So even commercial
publishers like a couple on their lists.
|
| janfields |
Though they really
really have to be high quality to make a list.
|
| janfields |
Because, in general,
they don't sell so well.
|
| janfields |
Because, in general,
they aren't the books kids pick for themselves.
|
| janfields |
Oh, about market
guides.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes you'll see a
magazine disappear from market guides.
|
| janfields |
If you know it was in
one year and out the next, you can usually check in the back of the
guide
|
| janfields |
And you'll see an
explanation of why the magazine dropped out.
|
| janfields |
Unfortunately, a lot of
magazines fold.
|
| janfields |
But also, many
voluntarily choose not to be in guides anymore
|
| janfields |
when they have very
specific needs and small staffs
|
| janfields |
If just gets too hard
to handle all the inappropriate submissions.
|
| janfields |
Sadly, people don't
always read the WHOLE entry for a magazine.
|
| janfields |
Thus, magazines in
market guides who only buy nonfiction
|
| janfields |
get hundreds of
submissions of fiction.
|
| janfields |
Magazines that focus on
science will get fiction
|
| janfields |
And dropping out of
market guides, sadly, means a lot less inappropriate
submissions.
|
| janfields |
So -- it doesn't always
mean they folded.
|
| piperpan |
I emailed Wee Ones and
they said they were finished in 08.
|
| piperpan |
Do you know
why?
|
| janfields |
Sometimes emagazines
are started by writers.
|
| janfields |
Jennifer Reed of Wee
Ones is a writer, as well as an editor.
|
| janfields |
And when your writing
career starts to take off...it pushes out a lot of other things that
eat up your time.
|
| janfields |
Unfortunately, that
usually means dropping the ezine...I've seen it happen
before.
|
| janfields |
Plus, eZines tend to be
all expense and virtually no income.
|
| janfields |
Since writers don't
have deep pockets, that can play a part too.
|
| janfields |
I know Jennifer had
found some sources of revenue for Wee Ones, but not enough to grow
the magazine the way she would have liked.
|
| janfields |
Not enough to make it a
sustainable full time job.
|
| soradina |
So if we want our writing
careers to take off we should
|
| soradina |
start our own
ezines?
|
| janfields |
That would be a really
painful way to do that -- ezines are incredible drains on your
creative, organizational, and financial resources.
|
| janfields |
But they will get your
name in front of folks if you do a good one.
|
| janfields |
Of course, you could
just become a rock star -- then your writing career will take off
too.
|
| janfields |
Ask
Madonna.
|
| soleil03 |
when submitting ms how
long do you wait to send another one
|
| janfields |
Personally, I submit
manuscripts as they are done.
|
| janfields |
So, sometimes a
magazine will have more than one piece from me that they are
considering.
|
| janfields |
If I feel they are the
best market for both.
|
| janfields |
And I would do the same
with a book publisher in the same circumstances.
|
| janfields |
I never send them
together...but I don't have a set "waiting time" before sending
another.
|
| janfields |
Some folks NEVER send
another manuscript until hearing back from the
first.
|
| janfields |
And I respect
that...but honestly, I forget who all are looking at my
manuscripts.
|
| janfields |
So, I just try to match
things to the folks I think will like the piece...and I research
markets very very carefully.
|
| janfields |
But them...I'm a rebel
:-)
|
| mk1 |
If a magazine doesn't
state that they accept multiple subs,
|
| mk1 |
does that mean you don't
dare do it with them?
|
| janfields |
Multiple submissions
can mean two different things.
|
| janfields |
Some people use it to
mean simultaneous submissions -- where you are sending the same
manuscript to more than one market.
|
| janfields |
If a market says they
don't take sim subs, I don't send them sim subs.
|
| janfields |
I take all markets on
their work.
|
| janfields |
Multiple submissions
can also mean multiple submissions to the same editor, which is what
most editors think it means.
|
| janfields |
And almost no one wants
to see that unless you're sending poetry.
|
| janfields |
Otherwise, send each
manuscript separately.
|
| janfields |
Some folks I know send
sim subs to everyone...regardless of what they
want.
|
| janfields |
With the viewpoint of
"this business takes long enough and they are being
unreasonable"
|
| janfields |
But the real problem is
that we...collectively...meaning all writers
submitting
|
| janfields |
are being
unreasonable.
|
| janfields |
Writers submit without
research.
|
| janfields |
Writers submit without
targetting.
|
| janfields |
We make slush piles
what they are...and ultimately it's writers that make publishers
make rules.
|
| janfields |
If a publisher doesn't
say they don't take sim subs
|
| janfields |
Then you can assume
they do.
|
| janfields |
And queries can always
be sim subs.
|
| janfields |
That's a
given.
|
| janfields |
But actual manuscripts
should only be sent simultaneously to publishers who are okay with
that.
|
| mk1 |
Is "Your Pipeline to
Pub." a good addition to the 1st course
|
| janfields |
It can be...it's very
marketing focused.
|
| janfields |
And some folks feel
they don't have enough marketing expertise
|
| janfields |
So they're really going
to benefit from Pipeline.
|
| janfields |
It's ONLY a magazine
course...so if you're not interested in magazines, you won't be
happy with it.
|
| janfields |
And if you send in a
manuscript for the optional critique -- it comes to
me.
|
| piperpan |
Which ezines are
good
|
| janfields |
The best ezines in
terms of "credits" are either
|
| janfields |
1. Ones that
pay.
|
| janfields |
or
|
| janfields |
2. Ones where the
editor is extremely well known in the business.
|
| janfields |
Beyond that, they are
mostly a nice way to practice the editorial
process.
|
| janfields |
Which is very very
worthwhile
|
| janfields |
But they aren't really
going to blow anyone away as a credit.
|
| janfields |
Right now, probably the
most impressive kid's ezine is Imagination Cafe -- the new one by
Rosanne Tolin because it is both
|
| janfields |
paying and run by a
well-respected editor.
|
| jitterbug |
when u sell a story do u
have to wait until its actually
|
| jitterbug |
published before u sell
it again somewhere else?
|
| janfields |
If you sold it as "one
time use" -- then no, you don't have to wait.
|
| janfields |
If you sold it as a
reprint, then you don't have to wait.
|
| janfields |
But if you sold it as
pretty much any other rights, then you do have to
wait.
|
| janfields |
And if you don't have a
contract -- US publishing law says the default is one time
use.
|
| janfields |
First time means you
actually have to let it get in print.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes, it means
you have to wait until the end of the sales run.
|
| janfields |
So if it's a quarterly
-- you wait a quarter year
|
| janfields |
And if it's an annual
-- you wait a year.
|
| janfields |
So, you wait for it to
get in and out of print.
|
| janfields |
Meaning you have to
wait for it to be published, and wait until the publisher is done
selling it.
|
| janfields |
For a book anthology,
you probably only have to wait until through the first print run,
but that's a bit different...so you should read your contract
closely.
|
| janfields |
Because most book
contracts are pretty clear.
|
| soleil03 |
where did you begin,
agents or publishers?
|
| janfields |
I personally began by
submitting to magazine markets -- and sold to magazines for
years.
|
| janfields |
Then I sent a picture
book I had written on a lark to a very good agent
|
| janfields |
And he represented me
for a year and a half...but didn't make a sale.
|
| janfields |
Got some very
interesting rejections though...and went to a couple acquisition
meetings.
|
| janfields |
I've also been
approached by publishers looking for writers to do specific sorts of
work.
|
| janfields |
So...honestly, every
publishing path is a little different.
|
| soradina |
correction is the editor
of kidsmagwriters.com well known in
|
| soradina |
the
business?
|
| janfields |
I reckon it depends on
who you ask :-)
|
| janfields |
I actually had a book
editor who is very well known in the business
|
| janfields |
ask me to blurb his
book -- because he felt my name had value in the
business.
|
| janfields |
But, that kind of thing
always surprises me.
|
| janfields |
But a lot of editor at
least skim Kid Magazine Writers
|
| janfields |
so stuff in there does
get your name in front of magazine editors.
|
| janfields |
I doubt it means much
to book editors though.
|
| mk1 |
If I send a recipe to a
mag and then write a cookbook, can I
|
| mk1 |
use that recipe in the
cookbook regardless of contract?
|
| janfields |
Not in its original
form...recipes are a grey area.
|
| janfields |
Because they are
considered facts/formula which are copyright free
|
| janfields |
but if you personally
sold it to a magazine
|
| janfields |
then you personally put
it in your book
|
| janfields |
The magazine could
probably argue that you violated their copyright
|
| janfields |
if you sold all
rights.
|
| janfields |
So you may want to drop
their permissions department a line
|
| janfields |
mention that you're
planning to use it in a book
|
| janfields |
and get the
okay.
|
| janfields |
It's your recipe so the
magazines I know would give persmission and not charge
you.
|
| janfields |
Though they would
charge a stranger asking the same question.
|
| janfields |
They would want to be
in the acknowledgements though.
|
| piperpan |
Pipline is another course
offered?
|
| janfields |
Pipeline to Publication
is a self-taught course.
|
| janfields |
Kind of like a big fat
writing book that comes with other books too.
|
| janfields |
So, it's a little
different...and a lot less expensive.
|
| janfields |
Unless you choose to
get me to critique a bunch of your stuff through the course...crits
are optional and not free.
|
| janfields |
So, that could get
expensive over time.
|
| chippy |
Can you only send in
manuscripts in the 2 years of the Pipeline course, or can they be
sent in later than that?
|
| janfields |
I have folks sending me
stuff into eternity...which I feel kind of bad about
actually.
|
| janfields |
Like an enabler or
something...really, some of them could do it okay on their
own.
|
| janfields |
They just get
scared.
|
| janfields |
But, as long as folks
want to send it...they can...up to the point when ICL stops offering
the course.
|
| janfields |
And who knows how long
that would be...they seem happy with it.
|
| janfields |
I get tons of nice
student responses.
|
| gonewest |
What course is offered
for books? I'm almost done w/mag.
|
| janfields |
I'm afraid I don't know
all the courses...you can call the institute and get someone to tell
you what all is available.
|
| janfields |
I pretty much only know
courses I teach.
|
| janfields |
I don't teach books
because I'm so much more fluent in magzines.
|
| soleil03 |
once you are "in" with a
publisher, do they want more from u
|
| janfields |
Yeah, actually I
sometimes get editors asking me if I'll write for them if I've
written for them before.
|
| janfields |
But it depends. If they
have a need and they feel you can fill it, they contact
you.
|
| janfields |
And once you publish a
book with a publisher, they do like to see your next
book
|
| janfields |
As a professiona
courtest
|
| janfields |
And sometimes its even
in the contract.
|
| gonewest |
I'm sending for a sample
issue from Fun for Kidz, do I need
|
| gonewest |
to send a large postage
paid envelope? Doesn't ask 4 -1
|
| janfields |
I would send one
because you'll get them quicker.
|
| janfields |
But if it doesn't ask,
you don't have to.
|
| janfields |
But, personaly, I'm all
for speed.
|
| mk1 |
Is there a lot of overlap
with Pipeline and the 1st course?
|
| janfields |
Not really...I'm
teaching the first course now...and I wrote
Pipeline.
|
| janfields |
I think it's a pretty
different approach.
|
| janfields |
Again, I'm all about
the sales.
|
| janfields |
So the course is much
more oriented toward -- you know you can write, now here's how you
can write and sell better.
|
| janfields |
It mostly handles areas
where good writers run into trouble
|
| janfields |
It's an independent
course...you can read about it on the Bookstore page,
momx2
|
| janfields |
It's been around a few
years now.
|
| mk1 |
Would it be a good idea
to take the 1st course and Pipeline
|
| mk1 |
together?
|
| janfields |
I probably
wouldn't...it would be a heck of a lot of reading.
|
| soleil03 |
are there any other
courses available through the institute?
|
| janfields |
You can find the
independent courses at the Institute's bookstore.
|
| janfields |
Which I think is
http://www.writersbookstore.com
|
| janfields |
And the more standard
courses with instructors, you can learn about by calling student
services at the Institute.
|
| janfields |
I think the phone
number is on the site somewhere -- I'm rotten with
numbers.
|
| monkee |
How many courses are
there in total at I.O.C.L.?
|
| janfields |
I honeslty don't
know.
|
| janfields |
Especially when you add
in the courses in writing for adults.
|
| janfields |
And I think they plan
to add more courses...advanced courses in the
future.
|
| janfields |
So, I dunno.
Sorry.
|
| soleil03 |
any advice for the rest
of the month until the next forum?
|
| janfields |
Well, we'll be catching
another night forum this month at Nov 30
|
| janfields |
And I'm here every
Tuesday -- same bat time, same bat channel
|
| janfields |
Though I only do this
as a "forum" one afternoon a month.
|
| janfields |
But my advice is always
-- read lots of published material in the area you want to
write.
|
| janfields |
And write as much as
you possibly can.
|
| janfields |
Nothing else will do as
much for you as those two.
|
| gonewest |
Any idea of how much
postage to put on sample copy envelope?
|
| janfields |
Look at how many pages
the magazine is -- you can find that in your market
guide.
|
| janfields |
Then look at how much
it costs to mail x number of pages -- there's a chart in the market
guide.
|
| janfields |
That should give you
the amount for postage.
|
| janfields |
I always nudge it up a
tad, but it always works for me.
|
| chippy |
Heard from Mel at any
time Jan?
|
| janfields |
Mel says he's doing
great -- they just got a new puppy.
|
| janfields |
I emailed not long ago
about some transcripts that had gotten overwritten before my tenure
here...and he had copies of them.
|
| janfields |
Good
guy.
|
| janfields |
But he's doing
great.
|
| janfields |
And that puts us over
3pm...so thanks kindly for
coming.
|
