| janfields |
JULY 28 NIGHT OPEN
FORUM will begin in 5 minutes. Today's topic is "Writing Taboos."
What have you been told to never, ever do -- and how seriously
should you take that advice? Come join us in five
minutes.
|
| janfields |
JULY 28TH NIGHT OPEN
FORUM begins in 2 minutes. Today's topic: Writing Taboos. Bring your
questions about terrible writing no-nos and be prepared to be
surprised...in two minutes.
|
| janfields |
Welcome to NIGHT OPEN
FORUM: "Writing Taboos."
|
| janfields |
If you want to ask a
question and be sure it has a chance to be posted, you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type /ask...then space once and type your
question. That passes the question to me and I can post it for
answer. If you type the question in the bar at the bottom of you
screen, I may not see it.
|
| janfields |
Thank you, for
venturing to your computers tonight.
|
| janfields |
We're having a bit of
rough weather where I am...
|
| janfields |
so if I vanish
suddenly...please, don't take it personally...
|
| janfields |
I'm just sitting in the
dark, thinking gloomy thoughts...but so far, power is on and it
looks okay.
|
| janfields |
I remember when I
changed my writing focus from writing nonfiction for adults to
writing for children...
|
| janfields |
I think in many ways,
writing for children is a bit childlike...
|
| janfields |
and so we develop a lot
of RULES
|
| janfields |
Big honking no-nos that
get repeated forever...some worthwhile,
some....um...odd
|
| janfields |
So, I want to touch on
some...and my dear friend coloradokate is inviting me to discuss my
favorite...
|
| coloradokate |
Please explain about
passive voice--that it DOESN'T mean just any old sentence with a
"being" verb such as "was"!
|
| janfields |
Passive
voice....eek
|
| janfields |
Some folks honestly
seem terrified of passive voice.
|
| janfields |
Which is worsened by
the fact that many completely competent writers HAVE NO IDEA what it
is.
|
| janfields |
Passive voice is a verb
form that can ONLY be applied to transitive
verbs...
|
| janfields |
Now before you shriek
in grammar school horror, don't panic...that just means a verb that
is doing something TO someone or something.
|
| janfields |
Any transitive verb can
be either active or passive.
|
| janfields |
So...you can write: Jan
bored us to tears.
|
| janfields |
That is ACTIVE
VOICE.
|
| janfields |
Jan is doing something
to her innocent audience.
|
| janfields |
You can also make the
same sentence passive voice:
|
| janfields |
We were bored to tears
by Jan.
|
| janfields |
Notice that in this
example...the subject (we) doesn't get to DO
anything.
|
| janfields |
Instead is "done to" by
someone.
|
| janfields |
All of the following
are passive voice:
|
| janfields |
Rice is grown in
Asia.
|
| janfields |
My car was scratched by
a shopping cart.
|
| janfields |
Jimmy was kissed by
Loulabelle.
|
| janfields |
In the last two
examples, the "do-er" is pushed off into the "by so-and-so"
phrase.
|
| janfields |
That's common in
passive voice.
|
| janfields |
But in the first
sentence: Rise is grown in Asia...
|
| janfields |
You never find out who
is DOING the growing at all.
|
| janfields |
Though we assume it's
Asians.
|
| janfields |
So...is passive voice
the very voice of satan...evil beyond words?
|
| janfields |
No.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes it's the
exactly right phrasing.
|
| janfields |
It makes perfect sense
to say "Rise is grown in Asia."
|
| janfields |
Your only alternative
is to make-up some weak subject like "They grow rice in
Asia."
|
| janfields |
Inserting an
unspecified pronoun weakens a sentence.
|
| janfields |
So Rice is grown in
Asia is better.
|
| janfields |
But, when you have a
"by so-and-so" you probably have a wordy construction so you're
better off to rephrase MOST OF THE TIME to make it stronger and more
direct.
|
| janfields |
Now...let me talk about
the number one evil that is often misidentified as passive
voice.
|
| janfields |
It is found in the
following sentences:
|
| janfields |
Jan is
brilliant.
|
| janfields |
There are fluffy clouds
in the sky.
|
| janfields |
Jack is tall and
strong.
|
| janfields |
In all of those
sentences...you have no action at all.
|
| janfields |
They aren't passive
voice.
|
| janfields |
They are just limp dead
sentences (well except for the testiment to my
brilliance).
|
| janfields |
Sometimes you just
plain need a simple "being" sentence.
|
| janfields |
But whenever you spot
them...ask yourself, is there ANY way I could say that
better?
|
| janfields |
Jan's brilliance
outshines the sun.
|
| janfields |
Fluffly clouds dot the
sky like hairballs under Jan's bed.
|
| janfields |
Tall and strong, Jack
bullies the other children constantly.
|
| janfields |
All contain the same
information...but without the lifelessness of simple being
verbs.
|
| janfields |
Ahhh...someone else
wants to ask about another writer's evil demon...the multiple point
of view......
|
| fohkitten |
What about POV? I've
noticed more books with multiple POV's
|
| janfields |
There are many ways to
do multiple point of view.
|
| janfields |
One, which was once
very very very popular...
|
| janfields |
is simply to switch
point of view whenever the heck you want...
|
| janfields |
The original Nancy Drew
mysteries use this point of view.
|
| janfields |
And so do The Boxcar
Children
|
| janfields |
And most other
"ensemble" cast novels of years past.
|
| janfields |
If we pull out series
books from my childhood...dim past that it was...that was the common
point of view.
|
| janfields |
Today, MOST multiple
point of view novels don't switch quite so
frequently.
|
| janfields |
Often they will switch
at a scene change...
|
| janfields |
Sometimes at a chapter
change...
|
| janfields |
And usually there will
be some kind of transition from one viewpoint to the
next.
|
| janfields |
A device, for example,
like having everyone looking at the same thing...first from the
viewpoint of one...spending a while there...
|
| janfields |
then switching...but
with the transition refocusing on the object they all stared
at.
|
| janfields |
Transitions can be
subtle...but they are a way of tipping off the reader that you are
passing the viewpoint on to a new character.
|
| janfields |
If you read the
Penderwicks, it is a multiple viewpoint book, but there are definite
transitions when the writer hands the viewpoint from one character
to another.
|
| janfields |
Still, even doing
that...switching viewpoints frequently, as is done in the
Penderwicks, definitely gives a certain feeling of "nostalgia" to
the story.
|
| janfields |
It makes the book feel
like a book from another time.
|
| janfields |
Reviewers have often
commented on that with the Penderwicks, so you need to be alert for
that side effect of frequent viewpoint changes.
|
| janfields |
That, in fact, is key
to most "rules" -- know why they are in place.
|
| janfields |
Know what the effect is
of breaking it.
|
| janfields |
And then use that
effect for a purpose.
|
| janfields |
So that it doesn't
disrupt your story, it enhances it.
|
| fohkitten |
What about "em dashes"
I've seen them used in PB's
|
| janfields |
They are a kind of "pet
punctuation" for today's writers.
|
| janfields |
And some writers (like
me) are very very very excessively fond of them.
|
| janfields |
That's one reason they
turned into a "no no"
|
| janfields |
They are actually a
nice way of signalling a sudden change.
|
| janfields |
But if overused, they
are painfully attention-getting.
|
| janfields |
Drawing attention to
the device instead of the content is never a good
idea.
|
| janfields |
So like
!!!!!!!!!!....you need to use them with extreme
care.
|
| janfields |
If you love them (as I
do) you need to hunt them down brutalling in a manuscript and demand
each one prove it's there for a purpose
|
| janfields |
The purpose of
signalling sudden change...and not used too often.
|
| janfields |
You don't one them to
happen more than once on a page...not really.
|
| fohkitten |
I love them, too. But
have been told not to use them in PB
|
| janfields |
It's because writers
are overusing them.
|
| janfields |
Have you been told yet
that editors HATE !!!!
|
| janfields |
They do only because
folks fall in love with them.
|
| janfields |
And then kill the
effectiveness.
|
| janfields |
So, be semi-afraid of
them...
|
| janfields |
used with extreme
caution, they are wonderful.
|
| janfields |
But they quickly...very
quickly, become too much.
|
| coloradokate |
I've seen italics used
for the POV character's thoughts, but I've been told to not use
them; some people say to use quotation marks, but others say just
write the thought like any other sentence. Help!
|
| janfields |
We're seeing a
stylistic "sea change on thoughts.
|
| janfields |
In books from my youth,
thoughts were rendered in quotes.
|
| janfields |
Then the "powers that
be" and the Chicago Manual of Style decided that was too
confusing.
|
| janfields |
So thoughts were to be
rendered in italics.
|
| janfields |
But in a book with a
lot of thinking...well, that gets old fast.
|
| janfields |
I've seen books about
telepathic people where ALL conversations are in
italic.
|
| janfields |
That can get hard on
the eyes.
|
| janfields |
So...slowly, some
publishers started wanting thoughts written with no
devices.
|
| janfields |
Just some kind of
transition to make it plain you are switching to internal
dialogue.
|
| janfields |
That's the "school of
thought" my writing is most influenced by so that's how I do
thoughts.
|
| janfields |
BUT...the CHICAGO
MANUAL OF STYLE...latest edition has decided that it's okay to do
thoughts in quotes again.
|
| janfields |
So, basically, in this
kind of climate...you can do them any way you want in BOOK
manuscripts.
|
| janfields |
As long as you are
consistent and never confusing.
|
| janfields |
I've seen a single
publisher put out books in all three styles in the same
year.
|
| janfields |
SO, most children's
publishers don't know what they want either...
|
| janfields |
except they want it to
be very clear.
|
| janfields |
MOST magazines tend to
be the same way.
|
| janfields |
I've seen both thoughts
in quotes and thoughts without in Cricket (for
example)
|
| janfields |
And in many
others.
|
| janfields |
So...while I tend to
shudder at the sight of quotes on thoughts.
|
| janfields |
I do know many editors
are fine with it.
|
| janfields |
BUT>...you MUST be
consistent.
|
| janfields |
Decide what is your
favorite way...and don't change within a
manuscript.
|
| janfields |
Writenow: I want to
know about all these -- no passive voice, no "was," and no adverbs.
What's wrong with adverbs, Harry Potter is full of them. I would be
happy with Harry Potter's sales even if it meant I put in
adverbs.
|
| janfields |
I already hit passive
voice and was...
|
| janfields |
but let me talk a
moment about the evil adverb.
|
| janfields |
I like
adverbs.
|
| janfields |
And I use
them.
|
| janfields |
But I understand a
couple things about them.
|
| janfields |
If you become terribly
fond of them...your prose will become painful to read
aloud.
|
| janfields |
If you read some of the
most recent Harry Potter novels aloud, for example, it is very hard
for the -ly adverb in every scrap of dialogue not to become
attention getting.
|
| janfields |
In short, staccato
dialogue, it can actually add a sing-song quality
|
| janfields |
That can really
undermind the tension you may be trying to build.
|
| janfields |
By being mildly
funny.
|
| janfields |
Also, you need to use
adverbs because the adverb is exactly the right word there and NOT
because it's easier to use an adverb than to think much about your
verbs.
|
| fohkitten |
character action as in
sneezing. Quotes or no quotes
|
| janfields |
If the sound precedes
or interrupts dialogue -- use quotes.
|
| janfields |
For example: "That's
quite a bit, A-choo, of dust," she said.
|
| janfields |
But... He pinched the
top of his lip. He squeezed his eyes shut. He held his breath.
A-choo! The guard turned sharply.
|
| janfields |
If the sound is not
part of dialogue, you don't want quotes.
|
| janfields |
If you use a sneeze
sound, you don't need a tag line for it.
|
| janfields |
So, you would hardly
ever say. Ah-choo, Mike sneezed because it's kind of obvious that
Achoo is a sneeze sound so you're redundant there.
|
| janfields |
You use the sound IN
PLACE OF "Mike sneezed" not in company with it.
|
| janfields |
That's like showing,
and then telling...just in case they didn't get the showing
part.
|
| janfields |
Mostly we should trust
the reader.
|
| janfields |
So...if the sound needs
to happen in the middle of the quote and it's made by the
speaker...use quotes.
|
| janfields |
Unless...well if it's
made by the wrong end of the speaker.
|
| janfields |
"I really need to be
excused." Pffttt. Mike grimaced as the kids around him flapped their
hands.
|
| janfields |
You wouldn't put quotes
on "pfft" because it...well, isn't a speech sound.
|
| janfields |
There is nearly always
a way to make it clear what the sound refers to without stating the
obvious.
|
| janfields |
Also, know that sound
words happen more in younger kid lit than older
|
| janfields |
[Well, except for
Mike's odiferous sound]
|
| janfields |
Middle grade doesn't
usually have pages filled with Splash! Squawk! Achoo! Mike and the
chicken were wet, cold, and very cranky.
|
| janfields |
But since sound words
are less frequent, they are all the more potentially
powerful
|
| janfields |
And
funny.
|
| janfields |
Michael: Why is it bad
to say you read your story to kids and they liked it? Wouldn't it
help show whether kids will want to read the story?
|
| janfields |
There are actually
times when it is GOOD to say a piece has been "test driven" on
kids.
|
| janfields |
If you are doing crafts
-- saying that the craft has been used by your girl scout troup will
actually make an editor happy.
|
| janfields |
If you are writing
plays, saying that your play was written for your daughter's
kindergarten class and performed at Christmas will also make an
editor happy.
|
| janfields |
Because it shows you've
worked out the "bugs" through a group.
|
| janfields |
BUT...most fiction or
poetry is not something you can "test drive"
effectively.
|
| janfields |
Because children so
love to be read to.
|
| janfields |
They love the
attention, so just because they didn't shove you out the window
doesn't necessarily prove it is well written.
|
| janfields |
And also...if you read
REALLY well...you can make kids interested in the oddest
stuff.
|
| janfields |
Now, if you developed a
nonfiction piece to "fill a gap" in some curriculum subject for your
school...again, that might be good.
|
| janfields |
So -- hands on stuff --
testing with kids is good, mention it.
|
| janfields |
Stories -- testing with
kids just shows whether you'll have a future in school visits, but
editors don't need to know.
|
| fohkitten |
"as" and "that" vs.
semicolons or commas
|
| janfields |
First...note...WORD is
"that" happy.
|
| janfields |
WORD wants you to
sprinkle your pages with "that'
|
| janfields |
I think Bill Gates has
a "that" fetish.
|
| janfields |
If you have your
"grammar and style" checker on...
|
| janfields |
it will DEMAND thats
from you. Ignore it.
|
| janfields |
Publishing today likes
far less "that" incidents.
|
| janfields |
Now...let us talk about
run-on sentences.
|
| janfields |
If you glue two
sentences together...you must use servicable glue.
|
| janfields |
Jan is smart, Jan
should be president.
|
| janfields |
That my friends, is a
"comma splice."
|
| janfields |
English teachers
shudder...and Granny Grammarians pass out at the
sight.
|
| janfields |
To fix it, you have
several alternatives...the conjunction.
|
| janfields |
Jan is smart, and Jan
should be president.
|
| janfields |
Correct in so many
ways.
|
| janfields |
But sometimes, you
don't want the conjunction because you want to give the impression
of a young child's run everything together style.
|
| janfields |
Hence, the magic of
semi-colons.
|
| janfields |
Jan is smart; Jan
should be president.
|
| janfields |
The semi-colon is a
perfectly acceptable replacement for the comma-conjunction
combination.
|
| janfields |
The colon is used
differently.
|
| janfields |
The most often found
use is to set off a complex list.
|
| janfields |
Watch for the following
evils: drugs, alcohol, excessive exclamation marks and adverbs. All
can result in police action.
|
| silversmom |
I thought you used a
comma , instead of and is it right to use both now
|
| janfields |
Any time you are
joining two COMPLETE sentences -- sentences that could stand alone
-- with a conjunction you ALSO need the coma.
|
| janfields |
I watched television,
and I sometimes watched the neighbors.
|
| janfields |
But if you are joining
INCOMPLETE sentences with a conjunction, you do NOT need a
comma.
|
| janfields |
I watched television
and sometimes watched the neighbors.
|
| janfields |
The key is in weather
you could replace the conjunction with a period and make sentences
from both halves.
|
| janfields |
whether.
|
| janfields |
Pretend I said
whether.
|
| janfields |
Okay...wow, it seems to
be about ten o'clock here in storm central
|
| janfields |
And I hear thunder so
I'm going to wrap up.
|
| janfields |
Thanks so much for
coming and asking questions.
|
| janfields |
This is my FAVORITE
kind of
pontificating.
|
