| janfields |
JULY 11 AFTERNOON OPEN
FORUM will begin in 5 minutes. Today's topic is STORY IDEAS. Where
do ideas come from? How can you tell if it's a book idea or a
magazine story? How do you know if it's a good idea? Come on in and
ask...in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
JULY 11TH AFTERNOON
OPEN FORUM begins in 2 minutes. TODAY'S TOPIC: STORY IDEAS. Bring
your story idea questions in and let's do some brainstorming...in
two minutes.
|
| janfields |
Good Afternoon everyone
and welcome to OPEN FORUM.
|
| janfields |
Today's topic is
IDEAS...although the topic says "story ideas"...we can talk about
article ideas too
|
| janfields |
I know gladys already
shared a great idea on using pictures as story
starters.
|
| janfields |
I also find illustrator
websites to be great idea starters since sometimes their "samples'
bring a whole story idea bursting forth.
|
| george
kulz |
I just listened to a
podcast by Dean Koontz where he discusses where he got some of the
ideas for his most recent books. If anyone's interested I can get
the link to it.
|
| janfields |
That would be cool,
George.
|
| janfields |
I just love
podcasts.
|
| janfields |
Arthur Slade did a
number of podcasts to promote his MONSTEROLOGY
book.
|
| janfields |
He interviewed
"monsters"
|
| janfields |
and the kids ate it
up.
|
| george
kulz |
You can find his podcasts
here:
http://www.randomhouse.com/bantamdell/koontz/podcast/index.html.
|
| janfields |
I know I'll be checking
that out later.
|
| janfields |
Now, really quick,
before we get too deep into ideas...I wanna do a couple good news
posts.
|
| janfields |
I never want to skip
over good news.
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: CARMAN: By
the way I will have a story in the book put out by Linda and Alan
Anderson called Angel horses. It should be on the book shelves in
September. I believe that one place will be Barnes and Noble stores.
The story name is Lanigan's Tears.
|
| janfields |
Congratulations
Carman.
|
| janfields |
Angel horses sounds
like a terrific name for an anthology.
|
| janfields |
Girls still love horses
like crazy, as Kathleen Duey testified...so I hope the anthology
sells zillions and introduces lots of girls to your
story.
|
| janfields |
And..we have another
book good news blurb...
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS: WENDY: I
signed a contract with Warner Press today for an activity book, and
they'd like a couple more. I'm so excited!
|
| janfields |
Activity books are so
much fun! That's fantastic.
|
| janfields |
May the transcript
note...the whole audience cheered.
|
| janfields |
Okay...I actually have
a few pre-sent questions today (Yippee!) so let's get to
them!
|
| janfields |
Emacartist: How can I
be sure someone else hasn't used an idea I've had since there is so
much material out there to be aware of?
|
| janfields |
First the bad news...no
matter what your idea, someone somewhere has already used
it.
|
| janfields |
Basically, you can't
find a truly original idea...our goal is a truly original
twist.
|
| janfields |
A truly original
voice.
|
| janfields |
A truly original slant
or spin on an idea.
|
| janfields |
For example, many
readers love and adore the Harry Potter books.
|
| janfields |
And Rowling did a lot
of clever things in them...and they are great fun.
|
| janfields |
But the "young wizard
goes to school where he is astonished by what he sees and eventually
must battle a great evil" was done very nicely by Jane
Yolen.
|
| janfields |
And the "outcast at
boarding school" novel has been around forever.
|
| janfields |
And even the creatures
she meets borrow from the extensive reading she did throughout her
lifetime.
|
| janfields |
But despite not having
a totally original idea -- she produced books that were quite unique
and special to the reader.
|
| janfields |
Still, it's good to
read...read a lot...read in the genre you're planning to
publish.
|
| janfields |
Or at least for the age
group you're planning to publish.
|
| janfields |
So you can have a solid
knowledge of the most popular books out there.
|
| janfields |
Because THOSE are the
books editors and critiques will notice you being
like.
|
| janfields |
You don't want to be
too much like the most popular.
|
| janfields |
About fifteen years
ago, I wrote a picture book manuscript I thought was pretty darned
original.
|
| janfields |
It was about a little
girl who finds a lion in her mother's garden.
|
| janfields |
She wants to keep
it.
|
| janfields |
So she asks her mother
if she can, and her mother assumes it's a pretend lion and
agrees.
|
| janfields |
And chaos
ensues.
|
| janfields |
I called it "A LION IN
THE GARDEN"
|
| janfields |
It has (through the
years) gotten tons of great editorial compliments (though no
sales).
|
| janfields |
It landed me a very
good agent.
|
| janfields |
Then, about ten years
after writing A LION IN THE GARDEN...
|
| janfields |
I happened upon a
British picture book called A LION IN THE MEADOW
|
| janfields |
About a little boy who
finds a lion in the meadow
|
| janfields |
He tells his mother
about it
|
| janfields |
She assumes he is
making it up.
|
| janfields |
Chaos
ensues.
|
| janfields |
Ulp!!
|
| janfields |
I had never read the
book, nor even heard about it.
|
| janfields |
Though it sold very
well in Britain...but none of the editors mentioned it when reading
my manuscript.
|
| janfields |
Nor did my
agent.
|
| janfields |
So...all that to
say...no matter how original your idea.
|
| janfields |
Somewhere exists a book
kin to it...
|
| janfields |
The key is to do your
book very well, and to be alert enough to the market to know yours
is not like a wildly popular book out there.
|
| janfields |
Suds34: How can I
protect my ideas when I start submitting? How do you keep a critique
group from stealing your idea?
|
| janfields |
One of the things I
have run into from (1) being an ICL instructor
|
| janfields |
and (2) being in a
really great critique group
|
| janfields |
Is that sometimes I
read a manuscript similar to the one I am working
on.
|
| janfields |
What do I
do?
|
| janfields |
I would never want one
of my students to think I "stole" their idea.
|
| janfields |
I would never want one
of my critique partners to think I "stole" their
idea.
|
| janfields |
So I basically abandon
my project....that is one of the dangers of being in a
group.
|
| janfields |
Not that someone will
copy your idea (that is really terribly rare...and ideas are nothing
without execution anyway)...
|
| janfields |
but that you will spot
a piece using the idea you are working with...
|
| janfields |
and you'll have to
decide what to do about that.
|
| janfields |
But...in terms of
protection...
|
| janfields |
I would never post my
work in a public venue -- a discussion board open to the public, my
website, etc.
|
| janfields |
Sharing should be
limited to a small group setting.
|
| janfields |
And an understanding
needs to be had early on for the "guidelines" for what to do when
you hear a story similar to an idea you already
had.
|
| janfields |
It will
happen.
|
| janfields |
You will hear someone
else exploring the same idea you are...so you need to make sure your
critique group has a policy or guidelines for that.
|
| janfields |
Beyond that...really,
in a small group, coincidence is the most likely reason for similar
stories...not copying.
|
| janfields |
You could copyright
your story...it's do-able.
|
| janfields |
But it can become
expensive if you work on a lot of things.
|
| janfields |
And really, it's only
worth your willingness to invest a lot of money in a
lawsuit.
|
| janfields |
So basically...I just
don't worry about it.
|
| gladys1 |
having the original of
your mss would prove it is yours wouldn't it
|
| janfields |
Right...and if you have
notes or research.
|
| janfields |
But that's only
relevant if someone stole your actual story.
|
| janfields |
Word for
word.
|
| janfields |
Or at least enough of
it so that their product is clearly derrived from yours and couldn't
exist without yours.
|
| janfields |
But if you have an idea
for a bunny who is a secret agent.
|
| janfields |
And someone in your
critique group writes a story of a bunny who is a secret
agent
|
| janfields |
That's not a copyright
violation.
|
| janfields |
They didn't write YOUR
story...they wrote theirs.
|
| janfields |
You just used the same
basic premise.
|
| janfields |
Or you could do mice as
secret agents...and you have SPY MICE, a really cute
series.
|
| janfields |
The girl who got in all
the trouble for plagiarizing from other YA writers.
|
| janfields |
Didn't actually commit
COPYRIGHT violation.
|
| janfields |
Because the pieces were
from scattered around in different works.
|
| janfields |
Most of the
intellectual property lawyers advised that the courts would call it
"fair use."
|
| janfields |
Her no-no was
ethics...not so much legality...though she was in breach of her
contract since all publishing contracts have wording about
that.
|
| janfields |
Um...today's topic is
IDEAS...story IDEAS.
|
| janfields |
So, that covers stuff
like is my idea safe...what if someone steals my
idea...etc.
|
| janfields |
Oh, wait...so everyone
can here...HEY DELL's book is going to featured on "Baby's First TV"
-- so very cool...just wanted to slip that in
there.
|
| eggamy |
What does public domain
mean
|
| janfields |
Copyright protection
only lasts for a certain number of years.
|
| janfields |
Once that protection is
lifted...you can then use any story in public domain as an idea
jumpstart for a story of your own.
|
| janfields |
So...you can see
stories with a Little Princess flair
|
| janfields |
Or a billion variations
on Cinderella.
|
| janfields |
They aren't protected
by copyright.
|
| janfields |
I think most things
older than 1920 are public domain.
|
| janfields |
You can also use very
old photos as great story starters.
|
| janfields |
You don't have to worry
about anyone complaining ...
|
| janfields |
I've known authors who
used famous paintings as story starters.
|
| caq |
I haven't logged onto the
SCBWI site in a while, but do they still have the kickstarts on
their home page?
|
| janfields |
I've been there fairly
recently...but I don't remember.
|
| janfields |
Hey, something to check
on!
|
| george
kulz |
On a related note to
eggamy's question, is there some kind of cutoff date where anything
published before is considered public domain? Is that why stories
like Frankenstein are freely available to anyone who wants them
without worries about copyright laws?
|
| janfields |
Although all protection
isn't the same...and all countries don't use exactly the same
rules...
|
| janfields |
in general, if it is
older than 1920, you're safe.
|
| janfields |
Some stuff newer than
that is public domain, but it's pick and choose.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes countries
can decide to extend copyright, as GB did with Peter
Pan.
|
| janfields |
Well, in the US...you
are covered throughout your lifetime.
|
| janfields |
And I have heard of
copyright renewals...but I think they may depend on a copyrighted
product being expressly noted in a will...so that heirs can
extend.
|
| janfields |
But that's all a legal
area I know little about.
|
| janfields |
I don't do much
derrivative work.
|
| janfields |
You can do something
"inspired by" a copyrighted work...by the way.
|
| janfields |
For example, Harry
Potter has inspired a bunch of folks to do fantasy and explore the
idea of magical schools.
|
| janfields |
But they weren't
derrivative works under copyright law.
|
| janfields |
Since they didn't use
Harry or any of the characters or any of the creatures or the school
itself exactly.
|
| janfields |
But critics can be
VICIOUS about anything that smells too much like Harry
Potter...
|
| janfields |
ad can editors
(now)
|
| caq |
A speaker at the NYC
SCBWI convention has a "Magic bag". He puts things into it and takes
them out without knowing what he is getting out and then imagines a
story about them.
|
| janfields |
That sounds like great
fun...really fun.
|
| janfields |
We had Stephen Mooser
speak at NE SCBWI about how to create a humor
series.
|
| janfields |
And he had the audience
name specific ideas to fit a "formula"
|
| janfields |
Then brainstorm ways to
turn the formula on it's ear.
|
| janfields |
That can also work with
a story idea.
|
| janfields |
You can name the
"parts" of a classic mystery.
|
| janfields |
Then think of your own
elements to fit those parts.
|
| janfields |
Then give it a nice
twist...and you have an original idea.
|
| janfields |
Lots of genre have
accepted norms that can make story starters.
|
| janfields |
Or you can mix up
genre...a fantasy mystery.
|
| janfields |
a humor science
fiction
|
| janfields |
a coming-of-age
mystery
|
| janfields |
You could put all the
genre you can think of in a hat...pull out two...see what ideas you
could create.
|
| janfields |
Blended genre
absolutely THRILL magazine editors, by the way.
|
| janfields |
Because so many
submissions are a bit toooooo predictable.
|
| janfields |
With book editors, one
element really ought to dominate or the sales people get
twitchy.
|
| coloradokate |
So it doesn't matter that
the billion new variations on Cinderella are copyrighted; the
original isn't, so I can still rewrite it if I want
to?
|
| janfields |
Totally...but always be
certain you're playing from the ORIGINAL.
|
| janfields |
Many of us "think" we
know the original but we're heavily influenced by
Disney.
|
| janfields |
And if you have any
clearly Disney plot inventions, the mouse will come after you like a
shark after blood.
|
| caq |
Yes, they do have the
creative kickstarts on the home page of SCBWI.ORG
|
| janfields |
Ah, the word is
in...creative kickstarts can be fun.
|
| janfields |
You know another I
like...
|
| janfields |
the lists of weird
facts and statistics and such in ICL's Children's Guide to [whatever
year]
|
| janfields |
There's always a
section of that.
|
| janfields |
And I've gotten some
really good ideas there.
|
| dreamer77 |
Is 1920 a set date, or
will it change as years pass?
|
| janfields |
Actually, I think it
might be...1922 or something. The US copyright office actually has
the specific date in their FAQ I believe.
|
| janfields |
But, copyright law is
still being worked out.
|
| janfields |
Much of it is
caselaw...so it is 'created' after a fashion by decisions of the
court.
|
| janfields |
And I know different
parties are pushing hard for some changes.
|
| janfields |
That will limit fair
use and extend copyright.
|
| janfields |
So that date is
probably not going to be cut in stone for the
future.
|
| george
kulz |
caq I was curious on that
question myself because I know an author who took the Frankenstein
idea and changed the original story specifics in order to spring his
own story off of the idea. I didn't know if that was an OK thing to
do or not.
|
| janfields |
Frankenstein is totally
fair use...and Dracula...all the really old books.
|
| janfields |
But be careful again to
copy the BOOK, not any movie add-ons.
|
| janfields |
And make your jumping
off point the original book.
|
| janfields |
Those old stories are
done for laughs a lot, but I know they've also been done in very
serious, literary forms.
|
| janfields |
Blinker: I know editors
are supposed to be more interested in nonfiction than in fiction,
but I can't even come up with nonfiction ideas for my course
assignments. How do you get good nonfiction ideas?
|
| janfields |
There are two important
components of story/article ideas...
|
| janfields |
one is opening yourself
up to silliness...because only if you let in the flood, will you
have enough to pick and choose.
|
| janfields |
The other is priming
the pump.
|
| janfields |
If you only read
fiction for adults.
|
| janfields |
You are
highly...Highly...HIGHLY likely to have serious problems coming up
with good nonfiction ideas for young people.
|
| janfields |
Writers who try to
write nonfiction for young people without reading
it...
|
| janfields |
usually produce ideas
that are really targetting adults...
|
| janfields |
or they pick ideas that
are so common (how a caterpiller becomes a butterfly) that editors
have seen millions of them.
|
| janfields |
So if you really want
to come up with good kids nonfiction ideas.
|
| janfields |
You gotta read good
kids nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
And then you have to
give yourself permission to be silly...and think like a
kid.
|
| janfields |
If you do those two
things...I can practically promise your "nonfiction idea" faucet
will unclog.
|
| janfields |
Once your faucet is
unclogged...look at your newspaper stories with your new kid
view.
|
| janfields |
My local paper today
did a story about an unexpected birth at the nature
center.
|
| janfields |
A screech
owl.
|
| janfields |
The mother was injured
years ago and will never fly again...the father is
blind.
|
| janfields |
The nature center was
sure they were both males.
|
| janfields |
Now they have a new
owling with no parent physically capable of teavching him to
hunt.
|
| janfields |
The news story was
EXPLODING with kid nonfiction potential.
|
| janfields |
Blinker: I've read
about writers carrying around "idea notebooks" -- how much of what
you scribble in those really end up turning into published
stories?
|
| janfields |
I know a lot of "idea
notebook" fans.
|
| janfields |
And I have a file of my
own for ideas I don't have time to pursue.
|
| janfields |
How many turn into
publishable work? Probably about 1%
|
| janfields |
For folks who really
love the idea notebook, it's a way of containing the flow of
idea.
|
| janfields |
Because when ideas are
flowing...when we're on a creative rush, we can't follow every
idea.
|
| janfields |
But we don't want to
lose them.
|
| janfields |
Then, over time...some
seem not workable...but most everyone with these idea notebooks also
have stories of successful sales that DO grow out of
them.
|
| janfields |
Bonnie: How much of
someone else's idea can I borrow? If I get an idea while reading
someone's book...could I make a short story with
it?
|
| janfields |
Ideas are "borrowable"
but then you have to pass them through a scrambler.
|
| janfields |
So that they are
clearly not the child of the original
|
| janfields |
But are the child of
YOU.
|
| janfields |
Some people can do this
very well...and they may be inspired by say...Doctor Doolittle but
when you read their story you don't think of Dr Doolittle at
all.
|
| janfields |
Other folks get caught
up in "what really happened" and end up producing a Reader's Digest
condensed version of the original..
|
| janfields |
The you cannot
do.
|
| janfields |
So...it's tough to
create something totally new from something pre-existing by someone
else.
|
| janfields |
But you might take a
tiny particle of the idea...say the idea of a horse needing glasses
and the terrible problems it undergoes until it's owner realizes and
makes it glasses f
|
| janfields |
Katarat: How do I know
if my idea is any good? It seems like everytime I get an idea
someone tells me it's overdone.
|
| janfields |
Well, if the idea makes
you feel really excited...and you want to work on it all the
time...and you find yourself laughing or crying as you
write...
|
| janfields |
it's probably good even
if it is common.
|
| janfields |
But if the idea just
seems easy to do...that could be because you've stored up so many
versions of it that you've read.
|
| janfields |
And...one real absolute
"overdone idea" test is if you've ever seen the plot on
TELEVSION...and especially on CHILDREN'S
TELEVISION.
|
| janfields |
Almost the rule for
creating children's television is to use plots no book publisher
wants.
|
| janfields |
Well, it's three...I
hope I touched on some IDEA stuff that y'all enjoyed just a
bit.
|
| janfields |
I got all the questions
answered (that always makes me proud).
|
| janfields |
Friday Night at Open
Forum, we'll be doing more on self-promotion.
|
| janfields |
We nudged that in a
different open forum topic but I know folks had more
questions.
|
| janfields |
So we're going to do a
very focused promotion topic.
|
| janfields |
See ya
then.
|
