| janfields |
Join us tonight in the
AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for our Night OPEN FORUM. Tonight's
topic for discussion is "Self-Publishing." Come and join in five
minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Tonight's Open Forum on
"Self-Publishing" will begin shortly. While you wait for chat to
begin, feel free to use your ASK A QUESTION button RIGHT BETWEEN THE
YELLOW “MAP” AND THE RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to post some
questions or comments on what to expect from self-publishing, when
does it work well, or any aspect of self-publishing! Chat will begin
two minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Hi, and welcome to
tonight's OPEN FORUM: "Self Publishing." I'm your host/moderator,
Jan Fields. If you want to ask a question and be sure it has a
chance to be posted and answered, you'll need to use either the "ask
a question" button on the bar across the middle of your screen. OR
type /ask...then space once and type your question. That passes the
question to me and I can post it to answer.
|
| janfields |
I hope everyone is
having a pleasant night and I'm glad you've decided to spend a bit
of it with me.
|
| janfields |
Today we are in a
unique technology age...
|
| janfields |
that has caused an
incredible explosion in the number of "people with a
book"
|
| janfields |
Along with this
increase in the number of people who have written a
book...
|
| janfields |
we have technology
making it easier and cheaper than ever before to produce bound books
from electronic manuscripts.
|
| janfields |
This combination has
produced a flourishing industry in "self-publishing
services."
|
| janfields |
One thing is
consistently true of all self-publishing
services...
|
| janfields |
they are a very bad
idea for children's writers.
|
| janfields |
Self-publishing
services, sometimes called vanity presses...
|
| janfields |
charge authors to
produce books.
|
| janfields |
Then sell the finished
book to the author.
|
| janfields |
And the author does the
bulk of the reselling.
|
| janfields |
There are a number of
problems with this method of "getting a book."
|
| janfields |
First, the primary need
of the self-publishing service is to produce as many books as
possible as quickly as possible.
|
| janfields |
They do not NEED to
produce quality books -- authors will buy them
anyway.
|
| janfields |
They do not NEED to
produce books inexpensively ... and in fact, cannot because of the
nature of print on demand technology.
|
| janfields |
So the cost per book is
always...ALWAYS...well above average for a children's
book.
|
| janfields |
Now...marry the
unusually high cost with the fact that many parents won't fork out
big money for children's books (a fact that commerical publishers
complain about constantly)...
|
| janfields |
and you end up with a
product with self-limiting sales because of price.
|
| janfields |
Also, bookstores will
not stock most books by self-publishing companies.
|
| janfields |
And reviews will rarely
review them -- and none of the reviewers that drive library or
school sales will review them.
|
| janfields |
So...you end up with
books the author must hand sell...one by one.
|
| janfields |
Thus, the average sales
figures for self-publishing services is around 100
books.
|
| janfields |
So...that cuts out
vanity presses...but it does not cut out TRUE
self-publishing.
|
| janfields |
True self-publishing is
when the author becomes a publisher, contracting then for every
element of the publishing process from editing, art, layout...to
printing...to distribution and promotion.
|
| janfields |
I have known some true
self-published authors who have made thousands of book
sales.
|
| janfields |
And some true
self-published authors have made enough sales to cause large
commercial publishers to then buy in and publish the
book.
|
| janfields |
One book example of
this is Time Stops for No Mouse.
|
| janfields |
Another (though
slightly different since the parents were the publishing company but
the author was a teen) is Eragon.
|
| janfields |
And I know of rather a
large number of nonfiction authors who
self-publish.
|
| janfields |
But should we do
it?
|
| janfields |
Is it a good
idea?
|
| janfields |
How much does it
cost?
|
| janfields |
The first rule of thumb
for self-publishing is not to invest more than you can stand to
lose.
|
| janfields |
In other words, assume
the worst and be pleasantly surprised rather than counting on good
things and ending up bankrupt.
|
| janfields |
A successfully
self-published picture book author named Matthew Gollub
says...
|
| janfields |
When budgeting to
self-publish...
|
| janfields |
You should budget - for
illustrations.
|
| janfields |
It will cost more for a
"name" illustrator, of course
|
| janfields |
but it is not likely to
cost less if you use a professional.
|
| janfields |
Understand
illustrations drive sales...don't skimp on art.
|
| janfields |
If you are a novel
writer...you will need less for the cover illustration and should be
able to get a very nice illustration for around
|
| janfields |
You won't need interior
art.
|
| janfields |
You WILL need an
experienced art director to design the "look" of the book (whether a
picture book or a novel)
|
| janfields |
That will run about -
Don't skimp. Looks are incredibly important in ALL children's
books.
|
| janfields |
The look of the book
includes font choices, layout, even things like
margins.
|
| janfields |
They seem little but if
you've ever leafed through a vanity press book, these little things
register on some level and tell us the book is "cheap" or "not
right" somehow.
|
| janfields |
Editing normally runs
from -
|
| janfields |
Don't think YOUR
editing is enough.
|
| janfields |
The NUMBER ONE most
common complaint about self-published/vanity published books...the
thing that keeps them from being reviewed...is that they aren't
polished enough.
|
| janfields |
Usually this is from
skimping on the editing.
|
| janfields |
I've read dozens of
self-published or vanity or pod books...and they all DEPERATELY
needed a good editor.
|
| janfields |
Not a copy editor -- an
editor.
|
| janfields |
Someone to say...this
is too long, this drags, you have continuity errors, your voice is
too old...stuff like that.
|
| janfields |
One GOOD thing though
is that there are many retired book editors who do freelance
editing.
|
| janfields |
They can edit your
book.
|
| janfields |
It won't be cheap but
it would be worth every penny if you really want to
self-publish.
|
| janfields |
If, on the other hand,
you intend to go with a commerical publisher -- don't hire an
editor.
|
| rainchain |
I was looking at a
publishing company who asked to have
|
| rainchain |
submissions checked by a
professional editor is that odd?
|
| janfields |
Yes, that's very
odd.
|
| janfields |
It could be they were
hoping to cut down on typos.
|
| janfields |
But really, most
editors I know shudder when they read cover letters saying the
manuscript has been "professionallly edited"
|
| janfields |
So if you have it done,
and then submit to 99.9% of the commerical houses -- don't mention
the editing. It doesn't help.
|
| gladys1 |
Jan it depends on the
publishing house One my writing group visited in Vancouver B.C. was
first rate
|
| janfields |
I hadn't considered
that...things may be different outside the US.
|
| janfields |
I am basically dealing
with the industry I know...and that's in the US.
|
| janfields |
So I'm sorry for my US
nearsightedness.
|
| gonewest |
How do you find retired
book editors ?
|
| janfields |
If you really really
REALLY want to hire an editor...drop me an email and I'll send you a
list.
|
| janfields |
I know some excellent
editors with book publishing experience.
|
| janfields |
They are
EXPENSIVE.
|
| janfields |
Real editing is
expensive.
|
| janfields |
You really REALLY need
to ask yourself -- do I need this?
|
| janfields |
If you're
self-publishing, you need it.
|
| janfields |
If you aren't...you may
just need more time to work on your craft.
|
| janfields |
Personally...I would
never EVER hire an editor unless I had decided to
self-publish.
|
| janfields |
Then I would hire the
best one I could possibly afford.
|
| janfields |
Anyway...on to
self-publishing costs...I promised to list them
all.
|
| janfields |
A good copyedit should
only cost a few hundred dollars in a short manuscript -- picture
book or chapter book.
|
| janfields |
And should still stay
under in a book manuscript.
|
| janfields |
Copyediting is
different from what the "EDITOR" will do.
|
| janfields |
Copyeditors will catch
things like ...hey you spelled her name Allyson 500 times and
Allison 230 times.
|
| janfields |
But they won't tell you
if you need to work on your dialogue.
|
| janfields |
Printing fees...paper,
binding, shipping for picture books is close to ,000 for a
run...with a set up additional cost of
|
| janfields |
That will be some less
with novels.
|
| janfields |
Picture books are
normally printed overseas...novels in the US.
|
| janfields |
If you print overseas,
you'll have import duties...another (but it still saves money to
print color overseas..it's very expensive).
|
| janfields |
And Matthew Gollub
budgets about for marketing of his picture books.
|
| janfields |
That's because he does
all his own labor there.
|
| janfields |
So...a picture book,
self-published, done competitively to a commerical house should run
about ,000 to ,000 for a run.
|
| janfields |
Which is why publishers
are so picky about what picture books they buy.
|
| janfields |
It's a serious
investment.
|
| janfields |
You'll pay less for
novels...but it's still expensive.
|
| rainchain |
How many copies is a
run?
|
| janfields |
About 10000...I
think.
|
| janfields |
I can't find the number
on the mass of stuff in front of me.
|
| janfields |
There's a
shock.
|
| janfields |
Oh...wait...wrong...5500 books.
|
| dreamer77 |
How do vanity presses
differ from self-publishing?
|
| janfields |
Vanity presses
basically charge you a flat fee
|
| janfields |
And they produce a
book.
|
| janfields |
They don't edit (though
some say they do).
|
| janfields |
So you'll need to add
the cost of an editor.
|
| janfields |
And you don't have the
price flexibility of true self-publishing.
|
| janfields |
So it is basically
impossible to sell the books at a price competitive to commerical
publishing.
|
| janfields |
Unless you sell for
less than you paid.
|
| janfields |
They work well if you
have a very very narrow niche.
|
| janfields |
Can reach it
well.
|
| janfields |
And if it is made up of
people who will pay high prices to get your book.
|
| janfields |
One guy did a search of
all vanity press children's books on Amazon.
|
| janfields |
And found that most
vanity press children's books are novels or chapter
books.
|
| janfields |
All were
expensive.
|
| janfields |
And most had sales
rankings that suggest they've sold a few dozen
copies.
|
| janfields |
A freelance editor I
know who has done some self-publishing says most vanity press books
do not "break even"
|
| janfields |
So although you spend
less than with real self-publishing, you still spend more than you
will make back in sales.
|
| jolie |
Do people hire vanity
press because no house would accept their
manuscript?
|
| janfields |
People hire vanity
presses for different reasons.
|
| janfields |
Some have collected a
lot of rejections and become frustrated, so turn to a vanity
press.
|
| janfields |
Some like the feeling
that they have "more control" or they don't have to be subject to
outside editing.
|
| janfields |
Some have a book that
has such a small reading niche that they know a commerical publisher
would not be interested.
|
| janfields |
Some just want to be
published and give a book to the grandkids.
|
| gladys1 |
Jan if you are spending
up to getting you pook published how can you break even unless you
sell your books for much more than they are worth to the reading
public
|
| janfields |
First, MOST vanity and
self-publishers do not break even.
|
| janfields |
MOST.
|
| janfields |
Almost
all.
|
| janfields |
Really really really
close to all...lose money.
|
| janfields |
BUT...sometimes they
feel it's worth it.
|
| janfields |
If they find some
readers for a project that is too niche oriented for commerical
publishing but was very personally important.
|
| janfields |
I know one lady who
wanted to do a book about her immigrant ...grandparents I
think.
|
| janfields |
It was set when they
were children.
|
| janfields |
And it was a very
personal project.
|
| janfields |
She was a published
professional author.
|
| janfields |
BUT the publishing
houses felt the story was too personal.
|
| janfields |
And not something that
would sell to a general audience.
|
| janfields |
So she
self-published.
|
| janfields |
I think she may
EVENTUALLY have broke even...but she made sales though organizations
that catered to people from the specific country.
|
| janfields |
And I think it took her
some years to break even.
|
| janfields |
I know another guy who
wanted to do a book on adopted children from Asia.
|
| janfields |
It was a fantasy
picture book.
|
| janfields |
Very long, very
wordy...and really way over the head of the intended
audience.
|
| janfields |
It was not going to
sell to a commerical publisher.
|
| janfields |
But it was a very
important book to him.
|
| janfields |
So, he
self-published.
|
| janfields |
He has not made back
his investment but he's very happy.
|
| janfields |
He has a book for his
adopted sons.
|
| jolie |
What is' on demand'
publishers?
|
| janfields |
A print on demand
publisher is one that uses only print on demand technology to print
their books.
|
| janfields |
Print on demand
technology allows a publisher to do VERY small print runs (sometimes
only a few hundred)
|
| janfields |
In "standard" printing,
the set-up fees are so steep that a print run of a few hundred is
cost prohibitive.
|
| janfields |
But a print on demand
publisher can print just a few books.
|
| janfields |
They are still
expensive, but they are do-able.
|
| janfields |
Today, MOST vanity
presses use print on demand (though not all)
|
| gladys1 |
okay what you are saying
is that if you have money to spend on your pride and joy self
publish but don't expect to get your money back any time
soon
|
| janfields |
Pretty
much...yeah.
|
| janfields |
You might make it
back.
|
| janfields |
But most
don't.
|
| janfields |
You also have to decide
if you want to invest the time in making sales.
|
| janfields |
Most writers want to
write...not hand sell books.
|
| dragonlady |
that's a lot of books..
how does an author possibly hope to sell that many picture
books?
|
| janfields |
The guy who had the big
print run actually spent a huge amount of time
|
| janfields |
learning the business
of book distribution
|
| janfields |
and
wholesaling.
|
| janfields |
And he was able to get
his books into bookstores nationwide.
|
| janfields |
Once you do that, you
can blow through a print run very fast.
|
| janfields |
But that's MORE
money...and time.
|
| janfields |
That author actually
LIKES all the business stuff so it doesn't bother him that he has to
spend so much more time selling and business managing than he does
writing.
|
| janfields |
To me, it all sounds
about as painful as having pointy things shoved under my
fingernails.
|
| dragonlady |
how do most regular
publishing houses view people who have chosen to self publish or go
the pod route?
|
| janfields |
Publishers are
impressed by SALES.
|
| janfields |
So if someone dives
into something really hard like self-publishing or even trying to
sell vanity books...
|
| janfields |
and actually SELLS
them...
|
| janfields |
that impresses the HECK
out of a publisher.
|
| janfields |
If you can sell an
overpriced book...especially a one with the low production values of
a vanity press.
|
| janfields |
Then the publisher
knows you are going to blow the sales skyhigh when you're with a
publisher who actually does most of the sales work.
|
| janfields |
But, if you had a
vanity press book and it sold the expected 50 - 100
books...
|
| janfields |
a publisher won't
consider you a loser or anything
|
| janfields |
but they won't be
impressed by it either.
|
| janfields |
So it's something
you're better off not mentioning at all.
|
| janfields |
I've heard editors and
agents who look down on the mention of a vanity
book...
|
| janfields |
not from the
perspective of "that person probably can't write"
|
| janfields |
but from the
perspective of "that person knows so little about publishing that
they think that will impress me."
|
| janfields |
So, you might think of
it as "coming clean" and telling your whole publishing history...but
really, you would be better off not coming that
clean.
|
| janfields |
Be a little
dirty.
|
| janfields |
It's
okay.
|
| janfields |
If the agent/editor
says at some later point...hey, I googled you and saw this book, is
that yours?
|
| janfields |
Then it's fine to tell
them about it...they will take it in the right
perspective.
|
| jolie |
There's a reason the
houses are attractive to authors; they do things
right!
|
| janfields |
Yes...and not so
much.
|
| janfields |
A good commercial
publisher will produce a beautiful book.
|
| janfields |
And that's
important.
|
| janfields |
Some small commercial
publishers...ehhhh...not so much on the beautiful
book.
|
| janfields |
I've had some tiny
publishers send books for me to review that
were...um...welllllll...icky looking.
|
| janfields |
But good commercial
publishers increasingly are bottom line oriented.
|
| janfields |
And that can be tough
on a writer.
|
| janfields |
So..they don't do
everything we'd like...but they still tend to be the best game in
town.
|
| janfields |
But even with
commerical publishers, check out their books before submitting to
them.
|
| janfields |
If a lot of their books
are...well...ugly. Hey, yours will be too.
|
| janfields |
Ask yourself if that's
going to be a big sales help.
|
| janfields |
So..thank y'all kindly
for coming..I really pontificated tonight.
|
| janfields |
Sorry about
that...sometimes I ramble.
|
| janfields |
There will be NO open
forum on TUESDAY, July 4th...I'm doing the B-B-Que, family
thing.
|
| janfields |
But y'all do plan to be
here THURSDAY night for Kathleen Duey.
|
| janfields |
She is
phenomenal
|
| janfields |
And such a
sweetie.
|
