| janfields |
Join us today in the
AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for an open forum with Web Editor,
Jan Fields. Today's topic is NONFICTION, so feel free to ask
anything related to writing for writing, researching, or selling
nonfiction. Open Forum begins in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
Today's open forum will
begin shortly. While you wait for chat to begin, feel free to use
your ASK A QUESTION button RIGHT BETWEEN THE YELLOW “MAP” AND THE
RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to post some questions on any area of
nonfiction writing or selling that's giving you trouble. Chat will
begin two minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Hi, and welcome to open
forum. I'm your host/moderator, Jan Fields -- and I'll be answering
questions from more than 20 years experience as a freelance writer.
If you want to ask a question and be sure I see it...you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type a backslash / followed immediately by the
word ask...then space once and type your question. That passes the
question to me and I can post it for everyone here and in the
transcript. So...let's get going.
|
| janfields |
I live to be
timely.
|
| janfields |
Today's topic is one
that has been a bit part of my writing career.
|
| janfields |
I began my writing
career in newspapers...which are mostly
nonfiction...
|
| janfields |
Except the political
commentary parts :-)
|
| janfields |
And then moved on to
write nonfiction fo magazines
|
| janfields |
I have been writing
nonfiction for probably 4 years before I started writing
fiction.
|
| janfields |
Now, if I count up all
my publications (excluding what i've done for ICL)
|
| janfields |
I probably have about
as many fiction credits as nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
I've written nonfiction
for every age from preschool through adults.
|
| janfields |
And quite a few types
-- how-to, articles, profiles, interviews...
|
| janfields |
I've never published a
quiz though...I keep meaning to try that.
|
| janfields |
The nonfiction market
for kids has changed some in the years I've been
writing.
|
| janfields |
It's grown more
sophisticated and ...in some way...mirrors the market for
adults.
|
| janfields |
You don't see general
pieces as much..and you see much more specialized
nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
But it's a very big
market and hungry.
|
| janfields |
So...we're going to
start answering questions about it...BUT...
|
| janfields |
first i want to post
some good news.
|
| janfields |
Because it makes me
happy :-)
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS from DONNA
MARIE: I have some good news: my article "My Horse is Lame -- What
do I do?" is
|
| June issue of
HORSE CANADA.COM and the editor has |
|
| too |
|
| janfields |
Congratulations Donna
Marie...and wow...it's nonfiction!
|
| janfields |
Plus, I love hearing
the sale is opening doors for more...YIPPEE...we love
that.
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS from BISH: In
June my story, "The Nickname," will be in the anthology Summer
Shorts, published by Blooming Tree Press. After a two year wait,
come August, my story "Hermia's Shell," will appear in Spider
Magazine.
|
| Spider not only
because of their wonderful illustrations, but because "Hermia's
Shell" was my very first acceptance. Yahoo!!! |
|
|
|
| janfields |
YEAH
BISH...
|
| janfields |
Love that good
news.
|
| janfields |
Oh..wait...one
more
|
| tolkienlvr |
I'm thrilled to report
that Appleseeds has just agreed to buy another article from me -
hooray.
|
| janfields |
Double
YEA....
|
| janfields |
Okay...gotta hit some
questions.
|
| janfields |
Donna: It is always
suggested that writers present a story in a nonfiction topic. How
much dialog and/or action can be invented to build a story to keep
kids reading? At what point is it no longer classified as
nonfiction?
|
| janfields |
When you hear the
advice -- find the story in the nonfiction...
|
| janfields |
it doesn't actually
mean to create a fictional story...
|
| janfields |
and present the
nonfiction through it.
|
| janfields |
Actually editors don't
like that.
|
| janfields |
What "presenting a
story in nonfiction" means is looking into the
topic
|
| janfields |
and finding a "real"
story inside of it.
|
| janfields |
For example, if you
decided to write about alligators in South
Florida...
|
| janfields |
you might find out that
one particular alligator became a kind of "neighborhood
mascot"
|
| janfields |
And you would then tell
the "story" of how the neighborhood adopted such an odd animal to
appreciate and relate to.
|
| janfields |
It doesn't mean you
would write a fiction piece
|
| janfields |
with an alligator
hanging out in Florida and telling the reader what that's
like.
|
| janfields |
One means finding the
most interesting thing in a topic
|
| janfields |
and helping reader
connect to it through anecdotes
|
| janfields |
And the other means
mixing fiction and nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
As soon as you start
mixing...you aren't writing nonfiction...
|
| janfields |
You're writing
fiction...with an informational side to it.
|
| janfields |
And you're loading a
lot more work on yourself...
|
| janfields |
because informational
fiction requires a plot just like any other
fiction.
|
| morningmist |
How much research is
required for a non-fiction mag piece?
|
| janfields |
Editors like to see at
LEAST three solid sources
|
| janfields |
Editors prefer no
internet sources...though you can use something like a university,
museum, or government site for ONE source...
|
| janfields |
as long as your other
sources were strong enough.
|
| janfields |
Editors like to see at
least one primary source...meaning...
|
| janfields |
something like a diary
or letters if doing historical nonfiction
|
| janfields |
or an interview with an
expert
|
| janfields |
Or quoting from a
research report.
|
| janfields |
Or the primary source
can be YOU if you're writing nonfiction inspired by something that
happened to you.
|
| janfields |
Donna: Which do you
think is more marketable to publishers, libraries, and readers: true
nonfiction or historical fiction?
|
|
|
| janfields |
Libraries are hungrier
for nonfiction than historical fiction...
|
| janfields |
because they get asked
OFTEN for books for reports.
|
| janfields |
Publishers have
specialties...so it varies from publisher to
publisher.
|
| janfields |
But historical fiction
is seeing a bit of a sales lag right now.
|
| janfields |
It's not dead by any
means...but it was really hot for a while.
|
| janfields |
And it's not the hot
thing now.
|
| janfields |
Readers -- overall --
probably prefer fiction.
|
| janfields |
But when they have a
report to write...they want nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
So...three
answers.
|
| little
lulu |
When you look at
publishers catalogs that publish nonfiction, it looks like every
subject already has a book in a catalog.
|
| janfields |
It's pretty hard to
find a subject about which NO ONE has written
|
| janfields |
but about which a
publisher wants to hear.
|
| janfields |
But you can write for a
market that has some books in it...
|
| janfields |
as long as you find a
different approach...
|
| janfields |
or take a different
slice of the subject.
|
| janfields |
Kids books generally
can't cover EVERYTHING because they're too short.
|
| janfields |
So...if you read the
books on the subject that interests you.
|
| janfields |
You can almost always
find room in the subject that is being underserved.
|
| janfields |
Take something like
Lincoln.
|
| janfields |
How many books have
been written on Lincoln? Zillions.
|
| janfields |
Yet new books continue
to come out when writers find a new side or a new
idea.
|
| janfields |
I just read a great
book on Ben Franklin called A Dangerous Engine...
|
| janfields |
what could be more
...overdone than Ben Franklin, but the book was very fresh and I
learned stuff.
|
| little
lulu |
How do you wiggle into a
position to find out what publishers want?
|
| janfields |
Read the
books.
|
| janfields |
The more you read, the
more you know the market
|
| janfields |
The more you can
present a case to the publisher
|
| janfields |
that the market is
underserved on your topic.
|
| janfields |
You need to become an
EXPERT on that topic
|
| janfields |
if you're planning to
write nonfiction books.
|
| caq |
My instructor from the
basic course told me interviews didn't hold much weight because they
are not publshed sources so the publisher and readers can't see the
source. Now I stay away from NF because everyone says something
different. Why is that is the information so conflicting? I
interviewed two experts and had written sources and he said
interviews don't hold much weight.
|
| janfields |
Well, I've had editors
tell me they LOVE interviews.
|
| janfields |
Here though is the
problem with interviews...
|
| janfields |
they are hard to
fact-check.
|
| janfields |
It's so easy to fact
check a book...the writer sends a photocopy of the pages they
read
|
| janfields |
And you read
them
|
| janfields |
And see if the writer
screwed up the information.
|
| janfields |
But how do you
fact-check an interview?
|
| janfields |
Now, if the writer
submits an email from the interview subjects where they say they
read the article
|
| janfields |
and it's correct...then
the fact-checker only needs to
|
| janfields |
check the interview
subject's credentials.
|
| janfields |
If they have good
creds...then you have a good source.
|
| janfields |
I had a little trouble
with an article I did once...
|
| janfields |
where the scientist I
interviewed disagreed with the books on the subject
|
| janfields |
But the scientist had
the fresher insight.
|
| janfields |
Still the editor was
nervous about it...because they don't want letters saying they got
it wrong.
|
| janfields |
So eventually, I
actually just pulled some of the information out of the
article.
|
| janfields |
It was
frustrating...but it happens.
|
| janfields |
But the editor was
STILL very happy I had interview sources.
|
| janfields |
He just didn't like
what my sources saif.
|
| little
lulu |
So there is always room
for new ideas and new slants on a well written subject or
person...
|
| janfields |
Yes, I believe these
is...though if you see four books coming out on Franklin (for
example) this year...
|
| janfields |
then you may have to
wait out a year or so ...because publishers
|
| janfields |
don't want to be seen
as riding the coattails of a "fad"
|
| janfields |
But..that's about the
only time you'll really see a problem selling a unique slant on a
subject.
|
| caq |
The article my instructor
mentioned the interview thing on, one of the experts wanted to read
it first to make sure it was accurate and I didn mention that in the
cover letter, so that makes it more reliable?
|
| janfields |
Oh, yeah...if one of
your experts has "vetted" your manuscript to check for accuracy,
that makes a HUGE difference.
|
| janfields |
Again, assuming the
experts creds are something the magazine believes
in.
|
| janfields |
If I have an expert and
he's fact-checked my manuscript...I always mention it in the cover
letter -- always.
|
| morningmist |
Where do we look for
diaries and letters for historical nf?
|
| janfields |
Historical societies
can point you at tons of stuff.
|
| janfields |
I'm actually going to
be putting an article on research in the Friday newsletter for April
21 that will have tons of links to finding primary
sources.
|
| janfields |
But I find historical
societies a good place...and museums.
|
| janfields |
Museums often hold
documents like that...and may put them online in some
form.
|
| janfields |
Xu Li: For the
nonfiction article, do we need to send the whole reference copy or
the bibliography?
|
| janfields |
Magazines LOVE it if
you just go ahead and photocopy the pages you used as
sources
|
| janfields |
and send them with your
manuscript.
|
| janfields |
It makes the
fact-checkers dance.
|
| janfields |
For magazines like
Highlights and the Cricket group or the Cobblestone
group...
|
| janfields |
you're going to save
time and really up your chance of getting a sale.
|
| janfields |
With smaller magazines
like Hopscotch or Wee Ones...or the religious
magazines...
|
| janfields |
It's not as
important.
|
| janfields |
Well...especially, wee
ones since that would make a heck of a big email
:-)
|
| janfields |
But any magazine with a
huge rep for accuracy, sending copies of the source text with
highlights on facts you used wll make a big
difference.
|
| janfields |
Dawn: How do we know if
our craft piece is an original. Is there any way to verify if there
is a previous owner to it? Are there legal worries if you have it
printed as your own if you can't find previous
ownership?
|
| janfields |
It is almost physically
impossible to come up with a totally oringinal
craft.
|
| janfields |
They have all been
done.
|
| janfields |
And the faddy stuff has
beend one a lot.
|
| janfields |
If you are copying it
from a printed magazine -- you've got a problem.
|
| janfields |
But if you see a craft
somewhere...like in a store, and you think -- that's cool...I could
do something like that with kids...
|
| janfields |
then write up your
directions -- it's original.
|
| janfields |
You won't be violating
copyright.
|
| janfields |
There is the
teeniest...almost infintesimal chance of violating a
patent.
|
| janfields |
But really, you don't
have to worry.
|
| janfields |
What you do have to
consider is whether the editor is going to think it's cool and
novel.
|
| janfields |
If you're seeing
finished products in stores, craft fairs, and such.
|
| janfields |
It probably wont seem
new
|
| janfields |
Unless you can think of
something really unique to do to it.
|
| janfields |
Something way different
than what you're seeing.
|
| janfields |
So...anytime you see a
craft...consider that just the jumping off point.
|
| janfields |
And inject a thick
dollop of creativity into making it as different as
possible.
|
| little
lulu |
What a great tip to
photocopy sources! Thanks, Jan.
|
| janfields |
You're welcome...though
I can't take credit...a couple editors asked me to tell
people.
|
| janfields |
One from Highlights and
one from the Cricket group...and someone from Cobblestone hinted at
it.
|
| janfields |
So figure for those
...copying sources is really a good idea.
|
| janfields |
Ahhh...no more
questions in the que...have we exhausted the topic
already?
|
| janfields |
If so...ask
anything...I'm open to going beyond the nonfiction topic if you have
a question.
|
| janfields |
Wanna know something
cool about my kid-- she just got her orange belt in
Taekwondo...
|
| janfields |
A six-year-old martial
arts weapon...be afraid, be very afraid.
|
| morningmist |
What subjects are kids
most interested in?
|
| janfields |
Overall...kids love
science.
|
| janfields |
Discovery Girls editor
told me she would love to see some technology related submissions
for girls.
|
| janfields |
Technology is a huge
topic that is way under represented in submissions.
|
| janfields |
Kids also love history
if you can make it about people and
excitement/adventure
|
| janfields |
Not dates and facts and
overviews.
|
| janfields |
Kids love animals but
that can be one of the toughest subjects to do.
|
| janfields |
Because so many many
people do it.
|
| janfields |
If a magazine is open
to nonfiction -- like Highlights.
|
| janfields |
Out of
every...say...100 nonficiton subs...90 will be on
animals.
|
| janfields |
And most of those will
be basic life cycle pieces.
|
| janfields |
So...although kids love
animals..if you can do a different nonficition topic, you'll find
more eager editors.
|
| morningmist |
What age-groups have the
most interest in nf?
|
| janfields |
All of
them.
|
| janfields |
Really...it never
dies.
|
| janfields |
It's just the
focus.
|
| janfields |
Teens are so...what
about me...in their focus...
|
| janfields |
so more teen nonfiction
is strictly about teens
|
| janfields |
teen
music
|
| janfields |
teen
fashion
|
| janfields |
whatever...while
nonfiction for younger kids is more turned outward
|
| janfields |
because they are trying
to learn about eveything that isn't them.
|
| morningmist |
What about cultural
pieces? Are they hot?
|
| janfields |
Not as hot as they
*used to be* but if you have a connection
|
| janfields |
to kids in a culture
outside of the US
|
| janfields |
Or outside of
mainstream US anyway
|
| janfields |
then you can find an
eager market for their experience...but it needs to be
kid-centric
|
| janfields |
letting kids "tell"
their own story...rather than a more
|
| janfields |
general world cultures
look at "another place."
|
| janfields |
Though, having said
that...
|
| janfields |
Kid Zone does a world
cultures piece in every issue.
|
| janfields |
Somebody somewhere is
doing almost any nonfiction thing you can tink of.
|
| bechu |
How do you make a
protagonist in animal stories?
|
| janfields |
Well, you can go with a
very real portrayal.
|
| janfields |
Which I once did in a
story about an orphaned baby oppossum.
|
| janfields |
I didn't have him
talk...I didn't even have him think in sentences like you imagine
internal dialogue.
|
| janfields |
I did have him see and
react to things around him.
|
| janfields |
And I kept the action
close on the little oppossum...making it clear that it was his
story.
|
| janfields |
If you're going with a
more fantasy story...it's even easier
|
| janfields |
because you can use all
the devices that you would use in any fiction.
|
| janfields |
You can hear the
animal's thoughts and they can be very anthropomophized...like a
"looks who's talking" kind of sound.
|
| janfields |
Or you can set the
animal in it's own "all animal" world and let it
talk.
|
| janfields |
So...there are lots of
options with animal fiction
|
| delima-e |
what about unusual topics
such as cyclop animals
|
| delima-e |
would that be fiction,
nonfiction
|
| janfields |
Okay...I hate to admit
my ignorance but I have no idea what cyclop animals
are.
|
| janfields |
Are you talking about
some kind of cryptid? Oh...like some kind of
mutation?
|
| janfields |
I wouldn't know how to
research that...are a lot of animals born with just one
eye.
|
| janfields |
Wow...I would think
that would be fascinating.
|
| janfields |
I know one writer --
Kelly Milner Hall -- who did a whole book on albino
animals.
|
| janfields |
And the book did very
well...that's a bit better known oddity
|
| janfields |
but clearly it shows
there is a market for weird stuff.
|
| janfields |
I would think it would
work as nonfiction.
|
| janfields |
But it's kind of a new
idea to me...very unique.
|
| morningmist |
For a nf book, would you
just do it and then market or....
|
| janfields |
The "best" way to do
nonfiction is to get a bunch of nonfiction magazine
sales.
|
| janfields |
Then pitch nonfiction
to publishers with an outline/proposal...and not write the book
until you get a bite.
|
| janfields |
But it's really really
really really hard to get a publisher to buy a nonfiction book based
on a proposal unless you have a lot of publishing
credits
|
| janfields |
in nonfiction for good
solid magazines.
|
| janfields |
So if you only want to
do books...you probably have to write it first.
|
| janfields |
And be prepared to
virtually rewrite it after a publisher likes it.
|
| janfields |
That's why nf is
usually sold on proposal...because publishers tend to want a lot of
changes to the idea.
|
| little
lulu |
Is it a good idea to jazz
up a nonfiction article with personal experience or is it always
best to keep distance and third person? I'm thinking about writing
an article about my sons 6 foot iguana.
|
| janfields |
If your personal
experience is unique...like the animal sneaks out a lot and turns up
in different family member's bed.
|
| janfields |
Then that can really be
a plus to an article.
|
| janfields |
But if your experience
is pretty commonplace...then it might be better to stick with the
"facts."
|
| janfields |
Unique experience is
always alluring...but it has to be unusual and
compeling.
|
| morningmist |
look for a market, an
interested editor, then write?
|
| janfields |
Mostly...and if you
have the credits to back it up...yes.
|
| janfields |
Okay...we're running to
the end so I want to post one last thing.
|
| janfields |
A great idea started
suggested by CAQ
|
| caq |
You can get great ideas
off the discover channel, history, john ratzenburgers made in the
usa, just for ideas, and do a different slant.
|
| janfields |
I also get a lot of
nonfiction itch from channels like discovery and
elsewhere...
|
| janfields |
they can be great
jumping off points.
|
| janfields |
Be sure not to use them
as sources though...a lot of stuff gets messed up in
editing.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes their
facts are a little holey.
|
| janfields |
Thanks for the
NONFICTION fun...I loved it as
always.
|
