| janfields |
Join us today in the
AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for an open forum with Web Editor,
Jan Fields. Today's topic is PLOT, so feel free to ask anything
related to creating plots, planning plots, or thickening your plots.
Open Forum begins in five minutes.
|
| janfields |
Today's open forum will
begin shortly. While you wait for chat to begin, feel free to use
your ASK A QUESTION button RIGHT BETWEEN THE YELLOW “MAP” AND THE
RED QUESTION MARK IN ICHAT to post some questions on any area of
plotting that's giving you trouble. Chat will begin two minutes from
now.
|
| janfields |
Hi, and welcome to open
forum. I'm your host/moderator, Jan Fields -- and I'll be answering
questions from more than 20 years experience as a freelance writer.
If you want to ask a question and be sure I see it...you'll need to
use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle
of your screen. OR type a backslash / followed immediately by the
word ask...then space once and type your question. That passes the
question to me and I can post it for everyone here and in the
transcript. So...let's get going.
|
| janfields |
Today we're chatting up
plot.
|
| janfields |
Plot is actually a very
simple concept...
|
| janfields |
plot is the series of
events and actions...
|
| janfields |
that carry your story
from start to finish.
|
| janfields |
Plot is not
theme.
|
| janfields |
Though theme works
through plot.
|
| janfields |
Plot is not
characterization.
|
| janfields |
Though characterization
also works through plot and helps support the plot.
|
| janfields |
When plot, theme and
characterization play nicely together...
|
| janfields |
you have a story that
sells.
|
| janfields |
Now...I'm going to jump
on questions...but I wanted to do good news first.
|
| janfields |
Because good news is
cool.
|
| janfields |
GOOD NEWS FROM SUSAN
SUNDWELL: I have some good new to share. Steve Mooser at SCBWI
bought my article "Work Habits - Wear Them Well". I received a check
and a years subscription to SCBWI. The article will appear in a
future issue of the Bulletin. I also sold my Easter play, Easter
Lillian, to Standard Publishing along with two skits, one for
Mother's Day and one for Father's Day.
|
|
|
| janfields |
Clearly Susan is a work
MACHINE lately...
|
| janfields |
fantastic
news...
|
| janfields |
and I twisted her arm
to do an article on writing and selling plays...
|
| janfields |
because I know some
folks like plays and we don't have as much on...
|
| janfields |
the ICL site as I would
like about plays -- writing or selling.
|
| janfields |
Okay...now on to the
questions.
|
| janfields |
This first question is
sort of first cousin to plot...
|
| janfields |
and I have some great
stuff to give with it...
|
| janfields |
so here
goes...
|
| janfields |
High Hopes: What
exactly is a synopsis? How do you set one up?
|
| janfields |
We've talked synopsis a
bit before.
|
| janfields |
Synopsis is a
condensation of plot and characterization...with a hint of theme for
flavor.
|
| janfields |
Synopsis is VERY
short.
|
| janfields |
For a children's/YA
novel...try to stay under two pages.
|
| janfields |
One page will make an
agent/editor dance with joy.
|
| janfields |
But two for
sure.
|
| janfields |
Synopsis is written in
chronological order even if the actual book is not.
|
| janfields |
Synopsis hits the most
important plot events.
|
| janfields |
Synopsis reveals the
ending of the plot.
|
| janfields |
Synopsis introduces the
MAIN characters and gives a hint at their
characterization.
|
| janfields |
If you can imagine
writing blurbs for your favorite tv shows...
|
| janfields |
you can probably write
synopsis.
|
| janfields |
It's a similar art --
very short, very punchy, very exciting sounding.
|
| janfields |
I have some super
synopsis links...
|
| janfields |
I know you can't copy
and paste out of chat
|
| janfields |
But they'll be in the
transcript so I'm going to give them now.
|
| janfields |
http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2005/08/synopsis-five.html
|
| janfields |
http://pbackwriter.blogspot.com/2006/01/syn-ten.html
|
| janfields |
http://www.sfwa.org/writing/OP71.htm
|
| janfields |
Now, those first three
are about novel synopsis in general
|
| janfields |
Not specifically for
kidlit or young adult.
|
| janfields |
But there is a
yahoogroup that has a bunch...
|
| janfields |
of novel synopsis in
their files section.
|
| janfields |
And these are all young
adult and all were synopsis for novels that either sold to
publishers
|
| janfields |
or caught the eye of an
agent.
|
| janfields |
So the group is
teenchic lit
|
| janfields |
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teenchicklit/?yguid=140717253
|
| janfields |
This is our goodie on
synopsis --
http://www.institutechildrenslit.com/rx/ws05/synopsis.shtml
|
| janfields |
And finally, MissSnark,
an agent in cognito did some synopsis critiques
|
| janfields |
http://misssnark.blogspot.com/2005_12_25_misssnark_archive.html
|
| janfields |
Middle Grade/YAs are
#6, #15, #20, #31, #49, #65, and #74
|
| janfields |
The ones on Miss Snark
are quite an education because you can see how
|
| janfields |
an agent might
respond
|
| janfields |
point by
point
|
| janfields |
I learned a lot from
it.
|
| janfields |
Okay...enough
synops.
|
| janfields |
NosyNora: Is it ever
acceptable to have a plot problem that a child would not be able to
solve on his own?
|
| janfields |
Sure, the world is full
of problems that are too big for kids to solve.
|
| janfields |
The key to a successful
plot isn't so much that the kid solves his own
problem...
|
| janfields |
as it is that the kid
is ESSENTIAL to the solution...
|
| janfields |
A kid who just weeps
until someone comes along and solves it, doesn't work so
well...
|
| janfields |
keep in mind that
readers want to admire the main character...
|
| janfields |
so the main character
needs to be a do-er
|
| janfields |
but some things just
can't be done.
|
| janfields |
One excellent
illustration of this in a published story is
|
| janfields |
The Wreck of Monique's
Antiques"
|
| janfields |
Probably most of you
know it since it's in the ICL anthology
|
| janfields |
In the story, a kid and
his mom get trapped in their van...
|
| janfields |
the mom is
hurt...
|
| janfields |
they can't get
out.
|
| janfields |
Now, a kid can't
exactly play Atlas and rip his way out.
|
| janfields |
And he's not a doctor,
so he can't fix the mom.
|
| janfields |
Clearly, he needs
adults.
|
| janfields |
So...what he does do is
come up with a clever way to signal for help.
|
| janfields |
They still get rescued.
The kid doesn't rescue them...
|
| janfields |
but his action is
integral to the solution.
|
| janfields |
So, keep the kid active
and he doesn't have to save the day.
|
| janfields |
Also, it's not
impossibe that a kid could ABANDON the problem.
|
| janfields |
And choose not to solve
it.
|
| janfields |
Or realize that his
original goal wasn't a good one.
|
| janfields |
For example, he might
realize that the goal of beating his brother in a race isn't a
worthy goal...
|
| janfields |
for whatever
reason...and thus choose a different goal.
|
| janfields |
So, the "problem" or
"goal" you set up at the beginning...doesn't HAVE to be the one that
comes to a satisfying conclusion at the end.
|
| janfields |
ritr4kids: Do all
subplots need to be resolved by the end of the book -- even the
minor ones?
|
| janfields |
Yes, pretty
much.
|
| janfields |
Nothing bugs a reader
more than a lot of loose ends.
|
| janfields |
You might not notice
them at first...but they come back to nag you.
|
| janfields |
And some readers get
really worked up about it...."hey, you left George out in the
woods...what happened to him anyway??"
|
| janfields |
So, things don't have
to be 100% neat
|
| janfields |
But you don't want to
leave a lot of loose bits that feel untrimmed
|
| janfields |
The ending needs to
feel like you've finished...
|
| janfields |
not like you got tired
of the characters and quit writing.
|
| janfields |
Ewww...
|
| janfields |
never leave your poor
characters trapped in right field.
|
| janfields |
I used to play that
position...deep deep roving right field.
|
| janfields |
Horrible
place.
|
| janfields |
Okay...that's all the
questions I had sent in.
|
| janfields |
And no one is asking
any.
|
| janfields |
I'm feeling so
lonely....whoooowoooowoooo
|
| janfields |
Anyone want to ask
about anything else?
|
| soradina |
1. How can we get ideas
for plots?
|
| janfields |
Plot ideas can grow out
of tv news...
|
| janfields |
I know a lot of writers
who get their plot spark from the news.
|
| janfields |
Personally, I would
rather not watch the news.
|
| janfields |
eww.
|
| janfields |
For me, a lot of plot
problems emerge from my daughter's life
|
| janfields |
And before I had a wee
girlie...I got them from the kids of friends.
|
| janfields |
What were their main
problems?
|
| janfields |
Getting along with
friends...
|
| janfields |
getting along with UN
friends...
|
| janfields |
getting along with
teachers.
|
| janfields |
I would set up a
problem...then try to find a way for the child to get
out...
|
| janfields |
or be the impetus to
get out.
|
| soradina |
2. How can we ideas for
complications to our original plot
|
| janfields |
I would probably have
to know the plot idea...sometimes, my plots are too
easy.
|
| janfields |
It's because I write
mostly for magazines.
|
| janfields |
And you can't make
things too tough if you're going to dig out in 1000 words or
less...
|
| janfields |
sometimes a lot
less.
|
| janfields |
For my longer works...I
do struggle sometimes with not being able to draw out the
tension...
|
| janfields |
without getting
dull.
|
| janfields |
One key is to have the
character accomplishing little things along the
way...
|
| janfields |
good thing...but things
that can push the eventual plot resolution even further
away.
|
| janfields |
For example, if the
plot problem is that my character Joe doesn't know what to do about
Kristy who has a crush on him.
|
| janfields |
He doesn't want to be
with her...but he's a nice guy.
|
| janfields |
So... he could decide
to foist her off on another guy.
|
| janfields |
And during the foisting
process, he could find out why she is so needy.
|
| janfields |
And he could help
her....which is a good thing.
|
| janfields |
But now she REALLY has
a crush on him...which is NOT a good thing.
|
| janfields |
Thus, the plot interest
is high because things are happening.
|
| janfields |
but the resolution is
actually getting pushed further away.
|
| coloradokate |
Do you have any tricks
for creating and resolving a workable plot in only 800 words . . .
or 400?
|
| janfields |
OH
yeah.
|
| janfields |
I'm great at the
shorties.
|
| janfields |
One quick trick is to
place limits on the plot.
|
| janfields |
Certain things will
make your plot spread out.
|
| janfields |
Number of
characters.
|
| janfields |
Time
frame.
|
| janfields |
Are the top
two.
|
| janfields |
So I squeeze my plot
into a very tight time frame.
|
| janfields |
Say my plot problem is
that Ginny is afraid of horses.
|
| janfields |
But her dad loves
horses.
|
| janfields |
And she loves her dad
and wants to please him.
|
| janfields |
Dad decides Ginny needs
a horse...and gets her one.
|
| janfields |
So...we have, Ginny,
Dad, and a horse.
|
| janfields |
I could add a friend
for her to talk to..
|
| janfields |
a horse
trainer...
|
| janfields |
her
mom...
|
| janfields |
See how quick people
can slip into the plot?
|
| janfields |
But those people each
come with a word baggage so they can't stay.
|
| janfields |
I have to deal with
Ginny, Dad, and the horse.
|
| janfields |
Then, I can limit the
time...the horse is coming TODAY
|
| janfields |
And Dad plans to give
Ginny her first riding lesson in the morning.
|
| janfields |
Thus...I have a 24 hour
plot.
|
| janfields |
I could give the plot
weeks to develop but time adds word.
|
| janfields |
Within that tight
frame...I need to work on possible things Ginny could
do.
|
| janfields |
She could slip out in
the night and turn the horse loose -- no horse, no
problem.
|
| janfields |
But the dad could come
running out when he hears the commotion.
|
| janfields |
And while trying to
recover the horse...he could get hurt.
|
| janfields |
So Ginny's idea was
bad...and she has to save her dad and get help.
|
| janfields |
Hmm...it would be good
if I could get the horse in there.
|
| janfields |
Ahah...I could make
Ginny's fear recent...she's only been afraid of horses since some
horrific event.
|
| janfields |
And thus she already
knows how to ride...and in the morning she was going to have to
begin working with the horse.
|
| janfields |
That way, Ginny could
ride for help.
|
| janfields |
And I could wrap that
plot up in 800 words.
|
| janfields |
Because I would begin
the plot after dark...and do the backstory in Ginny's
head.
|
| janfields |
And through her softly
talking to the horse so she can calm it before letting it out of the
stall.
|
| janfields |
If I begin the plot
after dark, I can do the whole thing in the space of an hour or
two.
|
| janfields |
Tight time, tight
characters == equals low word count.
|
| little
lulu |
Is there a website or
dictionary to spell out sounds that people make?
|
| janfields |
Wow, not as far as I
know...
|
| janfields |
I usually either try
something phonetic.
|
| janfields |
Or I just say...he
burped...or he spent a few minutes trying to cough up a
lung.
|
| janfields |
Whatever...I don' t do
a lot of "sounds" that way.
|
| janfields |
Sorry,
coloradokate...my husband has a chest cold...lots of coughing...I
fear one of these morning...plop...there goes a
lung
|
| caq |
Does "plotting" out a
plot help in writing a novel and keeping you on the right track, so
to speak?
|
| janfields |
Some writers love Love
LOVE planning...
|
| janfields |
and they do these
elaborate plot plans before writing.
|
| janfields |
I have been known to do
that for short stories.
|
| janfields |
Because I need to get
done in so few words.
|
| janfields |
And I have one early
chapter book that was planned that way...which got lots of happy
happy rejection letters.
|
| janfields |
blech
|
| janfields |
But I also know writers
who do wonderful stuff with very little
pre-writing.
|
| janfields |
I do a lot of mental
pre-writing...I think about each chapter for about two days before I
write it.
|
| janfields |
And I generally know
where I believe the book will go at the end.
|
| janfields |
However, being kind of
a loose writer that way means I have to do a lot of
revision.
|
| janfields |
A lot.
|
| janfields |
Tons
|
| janfields |
Months
worth.
|
| janfields |
And planners
DON'T
|
| janfields |
I don't do a lot of
revision on magazine stories because I preplan and they go where
they are supposed to.
|
| janfields |
So..if you hate
revision...lots and lots and lots of revision...I would recommend
loving plans.
|
| janfields |
Yea, for most of
us...this is not a really speedy artform.
|
| caq |
How do you keep a plot
interesting for an entire novel?
|
| janfields |
Well, sometimes I
don't...and I start thinking...wow, this kind of
sucks.
|
| janfields |
And I go back to when I
LIKED the story.
|
| janfields |
No matter how far back
that was...
|
| janfields |
and I "scrap"
everything after that.
|
| janfields |
And start
again.
|
| janfields |
For me, if I'm getting
bored...the reader is almost certainly numbing out
too.
|
| janfields |
But as far as
interesting...keeping plenty happening helps.
|
| janfields |
Not getting too bogged
down in the inner life of the characters...though that can be
interesting too.
|
| janfields |
Balance is really
key.
|
| janfields |
When you have too much
of one element...you can get dull...
|
| janfields |
or in the case of too
much action...you can feel frantic and disjointed.
|
| janfields |
And you can desensitize
the reader to the action...which can make it dull.
|
| charweb |
I've learned few craft
pieces in the art classes conducted..
|
| charweb |
in my daughter's
school(parents program). Can I write...
|
| charweb |
them as how to articles
for mags?
|
| janfields |
Most of the time, the
schools get them straight out of a book
|
| janfields |
or
magazine...
|
| janfields |
so you can take the
basic idea...
|
| janfields |
and then do something
to it to make it unique or interesting..
|
| janfields |
or especially season
specific
|
| janfields |
And then sell YOUR
craft...which was sparked by their's.
|
| janfields |
The problem isn't
actually copyright in this case, by the way,
|
| janfields |
it's just that most
school crafts are going to be familiar to
editors...
|
| janfields |
so they may turn it
down unless you do something to make it unique
|
| janfields |
and valuable for the
specific magazine.
|
| emacartist37 |
After being repeatedly
rejected, at what point do you give
|
| emacartist37 |
up on a
plot/book/story.
|
| janfields |
I give up after every
single rejection...
|
| janfields |
and I never give
up.
|
| janfields |
Honestly, I am such a
baby.
|
| janfields |
I throw myself on the
couch and sulk and decide my writing is bunny
poop...
|
| janfields |
and I'm going to start
selling Mary Kay...
|
| janfields |
then I get over
it...re-look at the piece and ask myself if I still think it's
good.
|
| janfields |
If I still believe in
it. If it's still good to me...I send it out.
|
| janfields |
Now, after 6 or 8
rejections...
|
| janfields |
I usually give a piece
a lengthy rest...
|
| janfields |
not with the idea that
I've given up...but just so I can look at it very
fresh...
|
| janfields |
and maybe do some more
market research...
|
| janfields |
Then, if I really don't
see a pretty clear reason why it got rejected, I send it
again.
|
| janfields |
Some books were
rejected an awful lot of times before they got
accepted.
|
| janfields |
Well...sometimes it's
Avon...or something scary anyway.
|
| janfields |
I am SUCH not a
salesman...so I like to really wallow in icky personal scenarios
when I'm having a rejecition sulk.
|
| emacartist37 |
Do you ever preview your
work with children of that age
|
| janfields |
Nope.
|
| janfields |
Well, actually...crafts
sometimes.
|
| janfields |
Because I want to see
if the kids can do it.
|
| janfields |
But not stories or
anything like that.
|
| janfields |
I have to sell to
editors...not kids.
|
| rosehips |
Are many successful with
books but not magazines?
|
| janfields |
Oh,
yeah.
|
| janfields |
I know tons of folks
who totally can't sell to magazines.
|
| janfields |
Partly because they
read sooooooooo many novels.
|
| janfields |
And they've
internalized the novel pacing and structure.
|
| janfields |
So they flatly can't
write short.
|
| janfields |
And that pretty much
means no magazine sales.
|
| janfields |
I actually know book
writers who think it's amazing that I've sold to
magazines.
|
| jolie |
do your characters ever
surprise you with plot?
|
| janfields |
Well, I wrote this
story I really liked with brother/sister twins
|
| janfields |
And I loved these
kids.
|
| janfields |
So I thought I would do
another book with them.
|
| janfields |
TO see if editors would
like a different plot better.
|
| janfields |
Since they all said
they loved the kids.
|
| janfields |
But when I tried them
in the new plot...they just didn't work.
|
| janfields |
The sister got really
annoying and I had to make her a cousin...just to keep him from
killing her.
|
| janfields |
And the boy sounded
older than her no matter how many times I rewrote
it.
|
| janfields |
So I ended up with an
older boy cousin who has had this little monster foist on
him.
|
| janfields |
And she spends half the
book nearly getting him killed.
|
| janfields |
Which made for a fun
story but the character morphed totally out of their original
"form."
|
| jolie |
I wrote an assignment
with bor//sis twins.
|
| janfields |
Cool...twins are fun,
aren't they?
|
| janfields |
And I figured twins
might be more tolerant...than say...
|
| janfields |
my brother and I
were.
|
| janfields |
My parents considered
starting a pool on which of us would survive to
adulthood.
|
| eggamy |
what is a problem-soving
story?
|
| janfields |
Most plotted
stories...have a main character
|
| janfields |
who faces a
problem/challenge.
|
| janfields |
And has to deal with
it.
|
| janfields |
So...99% of novels are
problem-solving stories.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes literary
novels kinda lose site of the plot...
|
| janfields |
and might not have a
real problem...just characters who do semi-random
stuff.
|
| janfields |
But in most
novels...you have a problem, and the point of the novel is to deal
with it.
|
| janfields |
Bechu...yup...in
literary fiction...mostly upper YA.
|
| janfields |
No real
problem.
|
| janfields |
Just
characterization...and stuff.
|
| janfields |
They can be kind of
vague feeling.
|
| janfields |
Okay...it's time to
wrap up.
|
| janfields |
Thanks for asking
questions...I was so lonely for a moment there.
|
| janfields |
-)
|
| janfields |
This Friday night --
the chat is AGE TARGETING.
|
| janfields |
And next week...the
guest...Dori Chaconas...picture book brilliant
|
| janfields |
Oh, next
Tuesday?
|
| janfields |
Ummm...nonfiction I
think
|
| janfields |
Yup...nonfiction
|
