| janfields |
Join us this afternoon
in the AUDITORIUM-Scheduled Events Room for an "Open Forum" with Web
Editor Jan Fields. I have over 20 years experience in freelance
writing and nearly as much in teaching how to write for freelance
markets. I welcome your questions on finding your authentic writing
voice. Bring your QUESTIONS to this open forum—in five
minutes.
|
| janfields |
The Tuesday afternoon
"Open Forum" will begin promptly at 3pm Atlantic/CANADA, 2pm
Eastern, 1pm Central, noon Mountain, and 11am Pacific. While you
wait for the "Open Forum" to start, feel free to use your ASK A
QUESTION button RIGHT BETWEEN THE YELLOW “MAP” AND THE RED QUESTION
MARK IN ICHAT to post some questions for the discussion group—two
minutes from now.
|
| janfields |
Good afternoon! Welcome
to this Tuesday afternoon’s "Open Forum" session. I’m your
moderator, Jan Fields. I’m back for an informal time of answering
any questions you might like to ask on the subject of your writing
voice. So feel free to ask what's on your mind--and I’ll tell you
what’s on mine! First, please read these announcements, then we’ll
get started….
|
| janfields |
|
| like answered or
discussed by using your "Ask a Question" icon/button. (It looks like
a thought bubble icon, RIGHT NEXT TO THE RED QUESTION MARK.) I will
post the questions one at a time in the chat room and do our best to
answer them. Also note: If you want to make it possible to ask the
longest question you can, first type “/ask” (without the quotation
marks), then leave one space after the end of “ask”, then type as
many characters of your question as you can. If your question is not
complete, send the second part next, then if necessary the third,
etc… |
|
|
|
| janfields |
WARNING: If you don't
post anything at all, SOME of you will be bounced off the system in
15 minutes. TO PREVENT THIS, type something (either a question to
the moderator or even a private message) every 15 minutes to stay
active and remain online. Many chatters post just a period right in
the chat…it’s fairly unobtrusive.
|
| janfields |
Ah...old home week in
chat.
|
| janfields |
Hi writerfolk...today
we are talking about voice.
|
| janfields |
By voice ...I mean your
natural writing voice.
|
| janfields |
The way you write when
you are perfectly comfortable ...
|
| janfields |
with the topic, the
form, and the ideas.
|
| janfields |
The way you write when
you're in the zone...when it flows.
|
| janfields |
Many writers take a
while to find "their" voice.
|
| janfields |
And some things can get
in the way of making that find.
|
| janfields |
If you're uncomfortable
with the tools of writing -- words, grammar,
punctuation...
|
| janfields |
that can muddy your
voice and make it hard to communicate.
|
| janfields |
Plus...sometimes people
give writers advice that is TERRIBLE for their
voice.
|
| janfields |
Voice is not something
that is harmed by reading...
|
| janfields |
People tend to worry
about whether reading other writers will mess up their
voice.
|
| janfields |
In reality, it tends to
help you find your voice, as you see what kinds of writing is
dissimilar to you.
|
| janfields |
For example...I love
Katherine Paterson's voice.
|
| janfields |
It's lyrical but can
also be very strong and serious
|
| janfields |
My voice is NOTHING
like hers.
|
| janfields |
I can imitate her a
little as an exercise...but I can't be her...
|
| janfields |
my own voice is very
loose, very light, not serious...and involves a lot of play with
words.
|
| lilyphenix |
How do you know which
voice works for you?
|
| janfields |
When you're in YOUR
voice...you'll struggle less
|
| janfields |
You'll feel less like
you have you're "putting on" something.
|
| janfields |
Writing in other voices
can feel a bit like being in a play...but your own voice flows for
you.
|
| janfields |
Your voice probably
won't sound like a school report.
|
| janfields |
Or a business
report.
|
| janfields |
If you aren't sure what
your voice really sounds like.
|
| janfields |
Try some zero stress
exercises.
|
| janfields |
Write a letter to a
friend who totally doesn't judge you.
|
| janfields |
Or try keeping a
journal.
|
| janfields |
The voice you write
when you're not worried about judgement will sound most like
YOU.
|
| lilyphenix |
What if English is not
your mother tongue? Will you
|
| lilyphenix |
recommend writing in your
native tingue first then translate
|
| janfields |
It depends upon how
well you speak English...and whether you're at the point where you
think and dream in English.
|
| janfields |
If you think in English
and dream in English...then your voice will come through when you
write in English.
|
| janfields |
If you are still always
translating in your head
|
| janfields |
then write in your
native language...and revise still in that language...then translate
and revise again.
|
| janfields |
Because the process of
translating right from your head is likely to make things feel
stilted for you.
|
| janfields |
Another habit that is a
voice killer is Thesaurus addiction...
|
| janfields |
A Thesaurus is a very
good thing for reminding you of words you have
forgotten...
|
| janfields |
but when you choose a
word that doesn't come natually...you're choosing outside your
voice...
|
| janfields |
and the liklihood of
introducing confusion increases as well.
|
| janfields |
Writes are always
benefitted from building their vocabulary but use the vocabulary
that feels natural.
|
| janfields |
Not the one that makes
you feel more inteligent.
|
| janfields |
Or even the one that
you think makes you feel more like a kid...by that, I mean don't use
slang you can use comfortably.
|
| janfields |
If you'll using "street
jargon" because you feel you must but it seems awkward to you...it's
probably not going to read naturally.
|
| caq |
If someone says, "you
write like you talk", would that be sort of a
voice?
|
| janfields |
That's a lot like
voice...yes.
|
| janfields |
Your writing voice will
be very similar to your speaking voice.
|
| janfields |
Though usually a bit
more polished...a bit more vocabulary heavy.
|
| janfields |
A bit less
qualified.
|
| janfields |
Because writing is how
we would speak if we could speak like we want.
|
| janfields |
We can be wittier in
our writing.
|
| janfields |
And quicker
witted.
|
| janfields |
And we don't have to
say um or uh so much :-)
|
| writersblock |
How do you define your
voice? Do you look at your writing and try to figure out what your
voice is? Are you supposed to just "know" what your voice is before
you begin writing. This whole voice thing is confusing to me. I just
write. :-)
|
| janfields |
Voice is mainly a
function of style and vocabulary choices.
|
| janfields |
For some, our personal
style might be lengthy sentences, while for others, it might be more
clipt.
|
| janfields |
For some, lots of
parenthentical phrases make an appearance (they do in
mine)
|
| janfields |
Also, vocabularly is
very indicative of voice...your vocabulary is influenced by your
region...
|
| janfields |
your education, your
heritage, your parents, your friends...
|
| janfields |
I have a huge working
vocabulary but naturally I don't use most of it in my
speech...
|
| janfields |
because it would annoy
the crap out of my friends.
|
| janfields |
But it's at my disposal
for writing so that I might bring to mind exactly the word I want
that still feels right and natural.
|
| janfields |
A lot of voice comes by
feeling...when you start forcing...the problem might be voice
(though it can also happen as a result of lack of pre-planning or
discomfort with the subject.)
|
| lilyphenix |
Can you as a writer adopt
different voices (writing style)
|
| lilyphenix |
in the same
genre?
|
| janfields |
To a certain degree,
yes.
|
| janfields |
And some writers are
MUCH better at this than others.
|
| janfields |
Just as some people are
better at slipping into accents and such than
others.
|
| janfields |
You know those actors
who are really always playing the same character?
|
| janfields |
Some writers are really
always in the same voice ...others have some
flexibility.
|
| janfields |
Gonewest, Voice allows
for differences in characterization...and you'll find that it
happens naturally as you KNOW the character.
|
| janfields |
I don't have to think
about "okay, I'm writing as a 6 year old now" because I am not
writing as a 6 year old.
|
| janfields |
I am repeating the
words of Penny...a little girl I know because she's become real for
me.
|
| janfields |
Just as telling folks
about things my daughter does comes very naturally...I don't have to
think about how she sounds...
|
| janfields |
that's how doing
dialogue for character is for me.
|
| janfields |
I make those characters
real FOR ME...then I just let them speak.
|
| hmbody |
I have found that if I
just write an don't worry about,
|
| hmbody |
grammer spelling or what
ever, put it up for the night.
|
| hmbody |
then in the morning read
it out loud any little snag's will
|
| hmbody |
stick
out
|
| janfields |
Lots of writers --
successful writers -- work exactly that way.
|
| janfields |
They just gush it out
on the page...and come back and do clean up once they have the story
down in their most natural gush format.
|
| janfields |
But gushing is like the
way you TALK ...it can be full of mistakes...just as our natural
vocal speech is.
|
| janfields |
I know mine is...my
husband loves to catch me in a misspeak and tease
me.
|
| janfields |
I call them
talk-os...
|
| janfields |
My writing, on the
other hand, is my speaking...but smoother, clearer, more easy to
understand.
|
| janfields |
Mistakes get in the way
of communication...you know what you wanted to say...so you can fix
them in revision. You don't ever want to leave
them.
|
| janfields |
Cause they will stand
between you and the reader.
|
| lilyphenix |
Once you find your voice,
how do you keep improving it?
|
| janfields |
One way is to keep
working on skills.
|
| janfields |
The biggest thing that
stands in the way of voice is un-suredness.
|
| janfields |
We feel unsure when we
don't communicate well.
|
| janfields |
We feel unsure when we
don't know what to do with format, or
punctuation...
|
| janfields |
we feel unsure when we
don't have the words we need at our disposal.
|
| janfields |
And sometimes we just
feel unsure because we're writers and it's our nature to freak
out.
|
| janfields |
But one thing to beware
of in critiques...is having folks rewrite for you.
|
| janfields |
Most critiquers can't
write outside their own voice.
|
| janfields |
So instead of really
showing you a mistake, they might show you something they wouldn't
do.
|
| janfields |
Which isn't the
same.
|
| janfields |
That's why the most
valuable part of the critique is the "arrow"
|
| janfields |
Critiques point at
places that could be problems.
|
| janfields |
Examine the place...see
if you can find why might have created the snag for the
reader.
|
| janfields |
Then fix it YOUR
way.
|
| janfields |
Never just adopt a
critiquer's suggested rewrite automatically.
|
| eggamy |
How to make sure you
sound like the kids in your story?
|
| janfields |
For me, it's about
knowing them.
|
| janfields |
All the kids in my
story are ... in some way... like kids I know.
|
| janfields |
In
age...
|
| janfields |
in
background...
|
| janfields |
in personal
likes.
|
| janfields |
So that gives me a
jumping off point.
|
| janfields |
And I read stuff aloud
into a digital recorder.
|
| janfields |
And listen to play
back...with my eyes closed...while listening I picture my kid
character...
|
| janfields |
and ask if I really can
hear THAT PERSON saying those words in that way.
|
| lilyphenix |
can we say that, in
today's children makert, one voice
|
| lilyphenix |
(style) is getting more
popular than others?
|
| janfields |
Well, no, not
really.
|
| janfields |
I mean a lyrical voice
will win awards quicker than one like mine.
|
| janfields |
But it won't
necessarily get published quicker.
|
| janfields |
Or sell more
books.
|
| janfields |
Kids tend to like a
lighter tough...and a mildly sarcastic voice can be a hit with
kids.
|
| janfields |
But I see all kinds of
voice in writing...from basically a deep country
voice...
|
| janfields |
to a very lyrical,
stylized voice...
|
| janfields |
to a light, snappy
voice.
|
| janfields |
A lot of it has to do
with how well the voice goes with the story form and how much the
writer made the characters real.
|
| caq |
When you are writing for
magazines, aren't you writing in their voice because you are writing
in a way they will be more likely to buy it? I don't know if I said
that, right so I hope you know what I mean.
|
| janfields |
I will sometimes play
with trying to write in a different voice than mine...one more
suited to a specific magazine.
|
| janfields |
For example, the voice
for Highlights can be a bit more old-style-storyteller...that
doesn't come naturally with me.
|
| janfields |
Neither does their
story form...but I play with it...to stretch and see if I can make a
sale.
|
| janfields |
But I expend MOST of my
writing time in writing for magazines who LIKE a voice like
mine...
|
| janfields |
magazines like the
Cricket group and Pockets.
|
| janfields |
I totally cannot do the
voice of most Sunday School magazines.
|
| janfields |
Many of them mix the
old-time-storyteller with heavy themed structure
|
| janfields |
And I really stink when
I try to write that...though I am very good at what I do
naturally.
|
| janfields |
So markets that folks
often say are really EASY markets, are horribly difficult for
me.
|
| janfields |
But markets like
Cricket, which folks might tell you are hard...were my break in
children's markets.
|
| janfields |
But...if you want to
write for a magazine that clearly has a specific voice...you do need
to try to adapt to that.
|
| janfields |
For example, Girls Life
and Hopscotch totally would not buy the same story.
|
| janfields |
Hopscotch is
old-time-storyteller but lightish on theme...very
short.
|
| janfields |
While Girl's Life is
hip, very close narration, and way less scene
oriented.
|
| janfields |
One story couldn't be
both.
|
| dawnlee71 |
Waht's a lyrical voice?
Can you describe it?
|
| janfields |
A lyrical voice will be
poetic.
|
| janfields |
It will reach further
for metaphors and similes.
|
| janfields |
It won't go for the
easy laugh.
|
| janfields |
It's an extreme mix of
sentence lengths...and often the sentence lengths themselves play
into the style.
|
| janfields |
Building and ebbing
tension.
|
| janfields |
It goes for very
unusual word choices...but not more than one in a paragraph or
...image.
|
| janfields |
It can be hard to
decribe but very easy to spot.
|
| janfields |
Linda Sue Park...even
when she's being fun is very lyrical.
|
| janfields |
Katherine
Paterson...Sarah Maclachlan
|
| janfields |
Very different
authors...different styles...but all very lyrical in
voice.
|
| caq |
If you had a story that
would work with two age groups, would you actually be using two
different voices? Example, a story I have in its simplist form would
fit the 3 - 5 yr group. But it could be expanded with more in
certain areas where an age group of 6 -9 would be interested. So the
first one would be one voice and the other possibly written in
another group with a different vocab?
|
| janfields |
Yeah, I would really
have to tailor my voice differently for the two
groups.
|
| janfields |
I would still do what I
do...loose, casual, light...funny...
|
| janfields |
lots of
dialogue.
|
| janfields |
very scene
oriented.
|
| janfields |
But I would be looking
through different character eyes and that's going to tailor the
outcome, for sure.
|
| janfields |
Voice is a bit
like...your body.
|
| janfields |
You can wear different
clothes.
|
| janfields |
You can choose to wear
makeup or not (and if you're a guy...that's really going to make a
difference)
|
| janfields |
You can change your
hair.
|
| janfields |
But your friends will
recognize you in a second.
|
| janfields |
With your voice...it
will be a bit different if you're writing nonfiction or
fiction.
|
| janfields |
poetry or
prose.
|
| janfields |
for little kids or
big.
|
| janfields |
But ultimately, people
who are familiar with your work will recognize you.
|
| janfields |
I had a beau many years
ago who would track down my kid stories in magazines and read
them.
|
| janfields |
Which surprised
me...because as y'all probably know...guys don't do that
much.
|
| janfields |
I asked him why...and
he said he liked reading what I wrote...
|
| janfields |
because no matter if I
was writing about writing, or writing for kids, or writing somewhat
naughty letters to him...
|
| janfields |
I always sounded like
ME
|
| janfields |
so reading my stuff
always made him smile.
|
| janfields |
Your writing voice is
really much the same way.
|
| janfields |
You'll put different
clothes on it for different stories...but it'll still come from
you.
|
| janfields |
from your heritage and
background and life choices.
|
| writersblock |
Do we have to know what
voice we write in? Is it important, or can we just write like we
write and not worry about it?
|
| janfields |
One good thing about
identifying your voice...
|
| janfields |
is that it's a step in
identifying the voice of different publishers...
|
| janfields |
and
publications.
|
| janfields |
By knowing my voice...I
increase my acceptance to rejection ration
|
| janfields |
ratio
|
| janfields |
by not sending material
to magazines that would not buy stuff that SOUNDS like
that.
|
| janfields |
It also works (to some
extent) for book publishers.
|
| janfields |
While the big houses
are pretty eclectic...
|
| janfields |
I know houses like
Charlesbridge tend to really like lyrical
|
| janfields |
they like fairly
serious.
|
| janfields |
They aren't a good
match for me.
|
| janfields |
But a house like Front
Street...they have done stuff that was a little
lighter.
|
| janfields |
And they like very
regional voices...and my voice is very reflective of my background
as Southern woman.
|
| caq |
Addendum to #15377
Wouldn't examining it tend to make it tight, less naturaly and more
or less forced?
|
| janfields |
I wouldn't recommend
doing it while you write.
|
| janfields |
That would be some kind
of evil writer's straightjacket
|
| janfields |
But sometime when you
have time...
|
| janfields |
pull out all the stuff
you've done that you really really liked.
|
| janfields |
None of the stuff that
you think might have stunk.
|
| janfields |
But the stuff that you
STILL like even long after you wrote it.
|
| janfields |
And ponder what it has
in common.
|
| janfields |
Though I also found it
helpful to look at authors who "felt" like me...folks whom I would
think...I could be channeling that person...
|
| janfields |
Because it's easier to
see voice in others sometimes I think.
|
| caq |
The way I understand it,
your voice it pretty natural to you, so is it necessary to be able
to define it?
|
| janfields |
Oppp...writersblock...here's the question caq
referenced.
|
| janfields |
I try to define my
voice purely for marketing reasons.
|
| janfields |
Sometimes in queries,
it helps if you can define some elements of your voice. (fiction
book queries)
|
| janfields |
And knowing my voice
helps me choose markets...but it's not some "must do" in order to
sell.
|
| janfields |
It just helps me sell a
bit more easily...and...well... I really hate
rejection
|
| janfields |
If writing naked and
smeared with honey would help me get less rejections...I would do
it.
|
| caq |
speaking of queries and
cover letters, does your voice come out in those and is it naturally
the same voice as your writing voice?
|
| janfields |
It is very hard to get
comfortable enough in a query or cover to write in your pure voice
in such a small space.
|
| janfields |
Honestly, I know a lot
of writers who cannot do it.
|
| janfields |
I know Linda Sue Park
refused even to try.
|
| janfields |
Her query letter for
her first book was like a checklist.
|
| janfields |
Kind of a "I have this
book, it has the following elements.."
|
| janfields |
do you want to see
it?
|
| janfields |
But I guess they
did...honestly, I thought it was a darn gutsy
letter.
|
| writersblock |
When I write a cover or
query letter, it seems more business-like, and not how I write. So
how can an editor get your writing style from a query or cover
letter?
|
| janfields |
I dunno...I honestly
think my queries open up cosmic voids that suck in all available
light.
|
| janfields |
They sound NOTHING like
me.
|
| janfields |
And that tends to lead
to the dreaded rejection letters.
|
| janfields |
In a short piece...I
often quote some of my best lines in the piece
|
| janfields |
Because the editor can
see...yes, she sucks at queries...but look, it appears she can
write.
|
| janfields |
And I avoid queries as
much as possible.
|
| janfields |
But when I write
them...I try to keep them short, casual (but not chummy) and hit the
elements that are likely to make the piece most enticing to
readers.
|
| dell |
Some publishers accept
the first ms page with a query, OR, you can also include a short
excerpt from the ms within your query.
|
| janfields |
Yes, and I love them
very much for that. And some pb publishers still let you send the
whole manuscript...another nice thing.
|
| writersblock |
So if you write in
lengthy sentences (which I think I might do), should you cut them
back and trim them down if others tell you to? What about editors?
Critique groups?
|
| janfields |
The thing about long
sentences is...
|
| janfields |
the longer it is, the
more chance to confuse the reader...
|
| janfields |
and confusing the
reader is death to your prose.
|
| janfields |
But if you know the
sentence is CRYSTAL clear...then you go on to the next
issue...
|
| janfields |
long sentences slow
down pace and drain tension...so you have to ask if that is
appropriate...
|
| janfields |
given the place you are
in the story and what you are trying to build in the
reader.
|
| janfields |
If the pace and tension
are not an issue...there is only one last issue.
|
| janfields |
Long sentences
sometimes carry a lot of weight.
|
| janfields |
Lots of
information.
|
| janfields |
And the human brain
processes sentences by getting all of the beginning info, about half
of the middle, and none of the end...
|
| janfields |
so ending info doesn't
make it into reader's memory.
|
| janfields |
And that can result in
issues if the reader NEEDED to know the stuff.
|
| janfields |
So long sentences are
related to voice...but they are also a style issue and one you deal
with point by point.
|
| janfields |
Wow, I hate to wrap
when I still have great questions but it's after
3pm.
|
| janfields |
And I have to collect
my wee girlie directly.
|
| janfields |
We have another chat
THIS FRIDAY NIGHT...
|
| janfields |
Open
forum.
|
| janfields |
If you can come...it's
9pm - 10 pm Eastern
|
| janfields |
So I don't know what
that is in all other time zones...math is not my
gift.
|
