Rx for Writers

Transcripts

Thursday, September 9, l999

MODERATOR is Kristi Holl, Web Editor for the Institute's web site. Kristi is author of more than twenty juvenile novels and has taught writing at the Institute of Children's Literature for l5 years.

Vicki is Vicki Berger Erwin. Vicki is the author of the six-book Elizabeth Bryan mystery series and has also written for the Baby-sitters Club and other series. Vicki is an expert at writing books with texture and subplots, both critical in maintaining reader interest in a series.

Names color coded in blue are audience members who had questions.

Interviews are scheduled for Thursday evenings: 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

MODERATOR: Good evening! Welcome to tonight's online interview with Vicki Berger Erwin. I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator for the interview and the web editor for this site. Tonight Vicki is going to share her expertise with us on "Series Writing." Vicki is the author of the Elizabeth Bryan mystery series and has also written for the Baby-sitters Club and other series. We're so glad you could make it tonight, Vicki!

Vicki: Thanks so much for having me. It's always a treat to talk about writing . . . to talk in general!

MODERATOR: We're anxious to hear your thoughts about series writing, Vicki. First of all, though, could you tell us how YOU got started writing?

Vicki: I grew up in a small town in mid Missouri and our library was very small. I quickly read all the books there and in our school library. Once I discovered mysteries, books I liked were even harder to find so I wrote my own. My first book JAMIE AND THE MYSTERY QUILT grew out of a story I wrote in the fourth grade.

MODERATOR: Wow! Did you always want to write series books--was that a writing goal?

Vicki: I did want to write for a particular series when I got started and I had a chance to do that. It was a horrible experience. But, my other series experiences have been great.

Norene: How old were you when you wrote that first book?

Vicki: It took me five years to get JAMIE to the point that I was ready to submit it. I was in my early thirties when it was finally accepted.

MODERATOR: Did you read series as a child? And if so, what were your favorites?

Vicki: I LOVED series when I was a kid! We didn't have a bookstore so I didn't get books very quickly. But Trixie Belden and Nancy Drew were my favorites. I still collect Trixie Belden books, given the fact that mine disappeared at some point. And to go back to an earlier question about did I always want to write series . . . I always wanted to write mysteries and most mysteries today are published in series form. That's probably more why I got into series writing.

MODERATOR: I am getting some questions backstage, and I want to clarify that Vicki will be talking about BOTH series of her own and writing for already established series.

christine collier: I especially enjoy writing mysteries; do you know of any magazines that I could submit stories to?

Vicki: Magazines love mystery stories! HIGHLIGHTS is one place, CRICKET, the CBHI publications. . . If it's a good story, for the proper age, proper length, and fits the guidelines for the publication, many magazines are interested.

MODERATOR: Do you read series as an adult too?

Vicki: Adult series are a little different, but yes I do. I read lots of mysteries series . . . Patricia Cornwell, Diane Mott Davidson, Sue Grafton, both the Kellermans. I eagerly await each new book just as I did when I was a kid.

Norene: Did you read the other mysteries like the Zane Grey's or the detective types?

Vicki: As a child? Not very many.

christine collier: Have you heard of a magazine named The Clue?

Vicki: I haven't. But there is an online magazine that wants short mysteries. I wish I could think of the name . . . I haven't been very successful with short fiction.

MODERATOR: Who reads a series more, boys or girls?

Vicki: Five years ago I would have said girls, but I don't think that's true today. For one thing, the Goosebumps series pulled lots of boys into books and now there's Animorphs doing the same thing. The goal is to try to attract both boys and girls. In my series and in the single title books I've written I've always had a female main character, but try to include a strong male character as the co-detective.

Ducky: At what ages do you think children especially like to be scared by stories?

Vicki: I've never liked to be scared, but even as early as third grade kids are getting into scary books. Those that stick with horror, like for their reading to get progressively scarier, I think, all the way up to Stephen King. There are probably scarier than that, but that's as scared as I want to be!

TammyR: What ages do you write for? Boys and girls?

Vicki: Most of my writing has been for the middle grade age group. I write predominantly girl characters, except my latest book has a boy main character -- but I try to make them appeal to both with a strong male secondary character.

Norene: Which one is the lead or do you let the male appear better in some?

Vicki: In JAMIE AND THE MYSTERY QUILT, Jamie (female) is the lead and Kevin is her "co-detective". In my second book I intended when I started out to go the same pattern -- Bonnie would me the lead and Marc would be the second character. In that book, I also had a third character, Lynette, and she grew stronger and stronger until she pushed Marc out of the way. In my Elizabeth Bryan series, Elizabeth is the main character and Justin is the second lead. There's a definite pattern!

christine collier: Where can you find the Elizabeth series?

Vicki: It's published by Concordia Publishing House, so generally it's in Christian bookstores. You can order from Concordia or from Amazon.com.

DebO: Where do you find your ideas for plots twists and clues?

Vicki: There are so many places! I keep my eyes and ears open, but as an example, my first Elizabeth Bryan book is a baseball card mystery. When my son was in fifth grade we moved and he had to go to a different school. He was very into baseball cards then and used that as a vehicle to make new friends. I spent a lot of time driving him to baseball card shops and shows and when we got there I had no idea what he was looking for. I asked and he said, "I want a card that's so neat everybody will chase me around the playground just to look at it." That's when the idea started. Then my husband talked about all the cards he used to have. I put the two together -- what if a kid had a valuable baseball card that belonged to a parent, took it someplace to impress other kids when the parent said not to take it, and when they got home it was missing? That's the plot. I also listen to people talk and use bits and pieces. Sometimes the idea is from a news article or something I've read in book. In the third EB book, I decided I wanted to write something about science fairs because of something I read in a book by Tracy Kidder about how unfair the process can be. The book was SCHOOL KIDS and if you've read it, you'll know the part I mean.

MODERATOR: You really keep your eyes and ears open! According to editors, series must have a "hook" or "frame" to hold things together. What is that?

Vicki: It's different for different series. For the Baby-sitters Club, it's the club framework. For EB, it was a lot the mystery, but throughout the entire series, I had a subplot that carried from one book to the next that had to do with Elizabeth's life. In almost any mystery series, it's the fact that the main character always is involved in mysteries. In books with a continuing character, the character provides a lot of the frame or hook. In others it's the genre -- for example, the frame for Goosebumps is the scariness.

Norene: Have any of your own or friends actual experiences inspired some or all of the characters?

Vicki: There are bits and pieces of people I know -- myself included -- in characters. Elizabeth Bryan combines the names of my kids -- Elizabeth (Libby) and Bryan. Kevin, the boy character, in my first book is based on a boy I went all through school with. Kevin has trouble with math which is what brings him to Jamie. This guy used to call, not for help, but because he wanted me to tell him the answers to math homework.

Norene: What are the legalities involved with using this method?

Vicki: Generally people don't recognize themselves and nothing I've written would be slanderous. I have written an adult novel based even more strongly on people I know and my husband says if it ever gets published I won't have any friends left.

MODERATOR: Oh dear!

pmjv: Is it ever a concern that children will be encouraged to act inappropriately independent in trying to solve mysteries alone? How does one decide what situations call for independent action and at what point an adult should become involved?

Vicki: I try to be very responsible in what I show characters doing. I don't put them in dangerous situations and if adult intervention is called for, I use it. But the one thing that's come up in all my stuff is that on the cover of my second book one of the characters is holding a candle. When the editor sent a sketch of the cover, she was holding it in a fancy candlelabra. They find this candle in a tunnel and it's been there for years, so I asked where did the candle holder come from? The editor explained they didn't want kids to think it was okay to hold a candle with their bare hands. I said that was okay, but I thought most kids would know. They did away with the candle holder. I think what that indicates is that even if I included something that was dangerous, the editor will be watching. And didn't you always want to solve a mystery when you were a kid? I'm living out all those fantasies by writing these stories.

Norene: Okay, so as long as the characters are just different enough not to recognize themselves, it is okay?

Vicki: I've used actual names of friends and pointed it out to them and they have loved it. I think the key is not to write anything that would be construed as too negative or would harm someone. I'm even writing a story based on a friend's grandfather's experiences and she's ecstatic.

Ducky: Do your characters ever do things that their parents might consider unsafe?

Vicki: I guess it depends on the parent. Some parents might think it's unsafe to climb into a dumpster in an alley as Elizabeth does in one of the books, but I didn't see that as so bad. I don't ever use weapons or violence and I try to have the characters consider all the options and consequences. If they do something that's not considered positive, I try to have consequences and point out the danger.

buchholz59: The Writer's Digest Mystery Contest states that it will not accept stories with violence. I have a story about a dessert called "bombe", and I wonder if the idea of a bomb is too violent for the 9 - 12 year olds.

Vicki: It would depend on whether that wordplay or if the bomb is used in a violent way.

MODERATOR: Do your editors help you with the plotting?

Vicki: Sometimes yes and sometimes no. For the Elizabeth Bryan books, I came up with all the plots. In fact the only book that I had an outline from the publisher was the second Baby-sitters Club Mystery that I wrote -- #34. Even then, they gave me an outline, but there was a lot of room for creativity. I think I've gotten some of the assignments I've gotten because I submitted an idea as well as a sample. One of the hard things about a series -- those generated by a publisher such as Nancy Drew and Baby-sitter Club -- or by an individual is coming up with new ideas.

Ducky: Do you usually think of the ending first?

Vicki: Not always, but I have to know the ending before I know if it's going to work. For example I know that I want to write a book about a hidden painting (based on a newspaper story I read where someone found a painting in the attic that had a Van Gogh underneath) but then I have to decide why that's important, who the villain will be, why the villain is a villain. The motive on both ends is important -- it's important to know why the detective wants to find a solution and to know why the villain is doing what he/she is doing. So I know that much, but getting from the beginning to the end isn't always clear when I start out.

Norene: Does it feel like work or once into the plot do you just forget and enjoy the writing?

Vicki: I do enjoy the writing very much. The first draft is hardest for me. But once I have that basic draft down on paper and I'm filling in and fixing and polishing--that's when it's really fun.

MODERATOR: We have a couple of Elizabeth Bryan questions...

TammyR: You said your Elizabeth Bryan books are mostly found in Christian bookstores. Are the stories slanted toward Christian audiences or were they just wholesome enough to gain approval from that sort of publisher?

Vicki: They do have Christian content. I never even thought about writing for a Christian publisher, but the woman who was then the head editor at CPH asked me if I would write a series with a girl main character similar to JAMIE. She said not to worry about putting in the Christian content, they would add it. But I didn't want it to seem tacked on or stuck in someplace where it detracted from the story. After the first book, I figured out what they wanted and tried to put it in myself from then on. Sometimes it's no more than they go to youth group or Elizabeth prays that she's doing the right thing. At CPH, part of their mission statement is to spread the word about Christianity, so whenever anyone reads the book that should be kept in mind. And it also has to go through a process of doctrinal review to make sure that there isn't anything in it that's against the beliefs of the Lutheran church. This scared me to death since I'm not Lutheran. But it always passed. One thing that I found was that reviewers for trade publications (not religious pubs) would always be negative about the fact that it had Christian content. However, that was part of the purpose. It goes with the territory.

christine collier: How many pages are there in most of the Elizabeth Bryan series?

Vicki: That was prescribed by the editor. I submitted 90 page manuscripts for each book except the Christmas one and it was longer.

Phood: Do you outline each chapter before you begin writing?

Vicki: When I first started writing, I didn't. But then I submitted a book to an educational publisher and had to send an outline. The book was accepted and I had to write it in three weeks. Boy was I glad I had that outline! And, it gave me a tool. I don't outline the single title books I write in the same formal way that I do the series books. Once I start and get to a sticky place where I'm having trouble moving forward. I may do a very short chapter by chapter map rather than an outline, but I do fairly detailed outlines for the series books. Here the trick is to not see the outline as set in stone. It's a framework only. No editor has ever objected when I've changed something.

Steve: What is a chapter by chapter map?

Vicki: It may be a one line synopsis of what I want to happen in that chapter. An example is something like: Nicholas feels like he's followed when he returns to his cabin -- shadows, footsteps, glowing cigarette . . . It's not a complete description of what happens but what I want to make sure I include. In the series I've done for Baby-sitters Club and Mystery Files of Shelby Woo, the chapter outlines are up to a page for each. But they aren't in outline form like I. A. a. It's more a narrative description.

bernie: Do you think there is a market for someone to write a sequel to a well known book or movie, and if so how would you go about it?

Vicki: I'm not sure about that. I think sometimes authors do have sequels in mind or even written -- the publisher may not accept them at one time. There are many legal issues involved in writing a sequel to someone else's work. No one could write Baby-sitters Club books because those characters are copyright protected. Books that are sequels to well-known titles like GONE WITH THE WIND are written with the approval of the people who own the rights to the books. That may be author, the author's heirs, or a publishing company. A publishing company owns Nancy Drew. If you're thinking of doing that, you need to see who owns the rights to the original work. Even using quotes and characters from other work involves getting permissions and rights.

Ducky: Do series books all end with a lead-in to the next book?

Vicki: No. In fact some are very self-contained. There are series like Goosebumps that have different characters and stories in each book.

MODERATOR: What qualities make a series successful? And what weaknesses make a series fail?

Vicki: A series has to have at the heart something that kids can identify with -- a character or a concept. I think Baby-sitters Club was successful because the characters were so real and kids could see themselves in Kristy, Mary Anne, Claudia, etc. or they could see who they'd like to be or like to be friends with and the girls were dealing with everyday issues. Mystery series appeal because kids like mysteries and so on. I guess I'm saying it has to speak to the reader, although that is hard to quantify. One of the things that make series fail is that they are too like other things out there. Remember when Goosebumps became so successful? Every publisher had a variation of the same. Sometimes I see a really good series -- in my opinion -- and it still doesn't do that great. It may be marketing, timing, factors beyond the author's control. Barnes and Noble doesn't buy it. Poor writing will also make a series fail, but successful series don't necessarily have writing that wins awards -- except from kids.

DebO: How do you get into the head of your main characters like in the Baby-Sitter's Club series when someone else created the character?

Vicki: That's a good question and it wasn't hard for me with the Baby-sitters Club. My daughter was exactly the right age to be in first fans of BSC, so I'd read lots and lots of the books. My favorite character was Mary Anne because I felt like she was most like me and that was my first choice to write. Instead I got Claudia -- and she was so easy to get into. Claudia is the artist, for those who don't know the series. I read all the Claudia books and immediately felt like I knew how she would act and react. When I did get to write a Mary Anne book, it was hard! Maybe because I am more like her. The key was reading, reading, reading.

MODERATOR: Is it better for a series to have one main character (or one sleuth), or is it better to have a group, like the Baby-Sitters Club?

Vicki: That's probably a matter of personal choice. I like writing about one main character who I feel like I can really get to know. But, it's harder to vary the type of story with one character. With a variety of characters, there's more chance of hitting on a wider audience. Maybe a reader doesn't like Kristy, but loves Claudia. I would have found it hard to write about Stacy, the one who is beautiful and boycrazy.

MODERATOR: How can you tell if your book idea should be a series or one book standing alone?

Vicki: Another hard question . . . Part of that decision making process is in the hands of the publisher; is it an idea that has longevity and enough to it to provide the material necessary for a series? I don't think I would propose a series unless I had four strong ideas. That's what Concordia wanted. Adult publishers who do mysteries want at least three.

MODERATOR: What makes a hero interesting for kids? How to do you get that special quirk and still have a character kids can identify with?

Vicki: Kids do have special quirks. Part of making a character interesting has to do with appeal and that doesn't mean a character has to be perfect. Kids aren't perfect and they don't like to read about perfect people. It's partly a matter of voice -- creating a character that's believable no matter the quirks. Likability can enter into it, but it's not necessarily required. Believability is the biggest thing.

Ducky: How does series writing work? Do you submit the whole series when I contact an editor? Just the idea? First book?

Vicki: If you haven't worked with an editor before, you're going to have to do more for the submission packet. You will need to write at least one of the books in the series to show the editor that you can do it. If you have previously published work, that might do it, too, but you'll be better off to have a strong sample. Then, have strong outlines for three other books to send along. It's a huge investment on the part of the publisher to sign up a series so you'll have to assure that publisher you're up to the task. And strong writing is the best way to assure their investment.

GO NOW TO PART 2 OF VICKI BERGER ERWIN'S INTERVIEW

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