Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with Toni Buzzeo and web editor of the ICL site.

Pink shows the user names of the people who are asking questions of Toni.

Mel: A WARM WELCOME to you ALL to the ICL Chat Room, where we have a very special guest, Toni Buzzeo. She has written two picture books, The Sea Chest and Dawdle Duckling. While preparing for this chat, I've learned something about how Toni can get so much done. She is very quick on her feet in answering questions, as well as quick on her fingers at the keyboard. I am as excited as you are to hear from her. A WARM WELCOME to you, Toni!

Toni: Thanks, Mel. And hello all!

Mel: Toni, do you remember the very first piece you ever wrote--as a child, maybe?

Toni: I actually don't, Mel. I'm not one of the many authors who has a strong connection with herself as a child author. :> I remember the first story that I wrote for children quite well because it was only 7 1/2 years ago and I'm still revising it! However, because my father was an artist, I do remember my early drawings. I used to LOVE to draw a line of birch trees in the fall along a split rail fence. I tell kids, it's the only drawing I ever got really good at!

Mel: You wear so MANY hats, Toni, teacher, librarian, writer, which one of those came FIRST?

Toni: I became a WRITER first. Many hours spent at the kitchen table, copying out my favorite poems as an adolescent, taught me the form and nuance of language necessary to be a poet. And those lessons are still with me!

Mel: Toni, How long have you been writing for children?

Toni: Mel, I began writing for children September 4, 1995.

Mel: ONLY 8 years ago?!

Toni: Actually, I'm about to celebrate my 7½-year anniversary!

Mel: That is incredible, and you have two picture books in print?

Toni: Yes, and two more under contract. But before that, I was a writer for thirty years.

Mel: What kinds of things did you write in the 23 or so years before writing for children?

Toni: I wrote POETRY, POETRY, POETRY as a teen and a college student. As an adult, I wrote articles for various publications and lots of professional articles.

Mel: How did you go about getting started in writing for children?

Toni: I encountered a story that I just couldn't imagine NOT writing. That's when I knew it was time to turn to children's writing, a longterm desire. I set out to do a self-study course. I checked out a big stack of writing for kids books from the library. I read them and took notes. I signed up for several listservs and bulletin boards, and I began to make connections. My most important one was with author Jane Kurtz, who, after a time, offered to mentor me!

Mel: What was most helpful to you as a beginning writer?

Toni: The MOST helpful thing, of course, was Jane's mentoring. But the most important thing I did for myself was to treat the whole experience as any other brand new thing I was learning. I did not assume that I knew ANYTHING, and indeed I didn't!

Mel: What influence did other children's authors have on your growth and progress as a writer?

Toni: My goodness, ENORMOUS influences! First of all, of course, as a librarian, I had a wide ranging knowledge of children's literature. I was definitely influenced by the writers of the books I read. But more important was the generosity of a wonderful group of writers who took me into their fold, critiqued my work, included me in their circle and helped me to grow as a writer.

del: Can you share what you learned from Jane Kurtz?

Toni: Yes del, I can! First of all, she taught me to look for models of stories LIKE the stories I was trying to write. What a valuable lesson! She taught me to SHOW not TELL. :> She taught me PATIENCE and the importance of both macro-revision (to structure) and micro-revision (to language). I have every e-mail we wrote in the first six months of our relationship! Finally, when I was ready to start submitting my work, she taught me how to evaluate publishers, how to think about the match between editors and my work

Mel: How did you begin the submission process?

Toni: Hmmm... Well, when I had a story that Jane and I felt was ready, I got stacks of publishers’ catalogs and Jane helped me to evaluate my reasons for thinking I'd like to submit to any particular publisher. And then there were the EDITORS. (My secret key to success!) Toni smiles!

Mel: How do you mean that EDITORS were your secret key to success, Toni?

Toni: Well, that's my best piece of advice :> Shall I spill the beans now, Mel? LOL!

Mel: YES, PLEASE, and with me too!

Toni: Okay, here is what I did and what YOU ALL should do, too. Well, if you are obsessive-compulsive and a "J" on the Myers-Briggs like I am! I began my Editor Database in the second month I was writing for kids. Each and every time I encountered an editor's name online, on a listserv, in Children’s Writer, in Children’s Insider, on conference brochures, in the regional and national SCBWI publications (people who know me here are now rolling their eyes because they've HEARD this, especially the person I am mentoring :>), I would enter that editor into the database. I used EXCEL but any database program will do. My fields were:

DATE

NAME

TITLE

NOTES (that's the big one)

SOURCE

and PUBLISHER.

Slowly but surely I built this database to 23 pages! With 10-20 entries per page!

Mel: WOW (What a lot Of Work)!

Toni: So, that's my secret. Because it's a database, I could resort by name, date, publisher, etc. And I could also do a "find," say, on "easy readers" or "preschool." It gave me good info all in one place AND it gave me a feeling of some control in a business where the new writer has very little control!

Mel: When you FIRST used the database--which may sound a bit of a maze to beginners-- what did you go about doing, specifically, for a project you had in mind?

Toni: Well, once I got ONE FULL PAGE, I started to use it. I would read through the entries, and see who I thought might be a match for a particular story. Then, like any good mentee, I would run it by Jane! But it took no time at all to have lots of pages (and lots of UPDATES!) I'm sure you can all relate!

Mel: You evidently feel it's IMPORTANT to mentor another writer. How do you find time, Toni?

Toni: Well, my mentee will say that sometimes I don't find ENOUGH time, but I promised MY mentor that when I was in a position to mentor someone, I would do that, as she had for me. I do what I can for her as often as I have time. And I'm ALWAYS available for a discussion. That's what new writers need most, advice and discussion!

buttercup: How does one find a mentor?

Toni: Well, I think of a mentor as a gift. So I didn't FIND a mentor so much as she found me. And that is how it worked with my mentoring too. However, I have had people ask me if I would mentor them. And to be certain, I've said no, gracefully and kindly, of course. I can only mentor one person at a time. But furthermore, I have to really get to know someone and his/her work, and know that he/she is a person I can work with who has the drive and perseverance and talent to make it. So you might consider asking someone after they know you well, know your writing, and if you feel a strong confidence in what they can teach you. But don't EXPECT it. As I said, I think it comes to you as a gift.

kimmar: Take it from me, Toni is a wonderful mentor!

Toni: Ahem! Thanks, kimmar. :>

Mel: I know you talked some about this already, Toni, but what did you do with editor feedback?

Toni: Editor feedback is a writer's dream! I love editor feedback. I never ignored it. I sometimes cried and soaked in a hot tub. :> But I never ignored it. I chewed on it, I determined whether it would make my story better, and if so, I put it to work, even when I didn't resubmit the work to that editor.

Mel: How often did you meet editors personally?

Toni: I made it my goal to meet as many editors as possible. I went to every conference possible. I think PERSONAL connections are the way to learn who you would like to submit to and then WORK with. My relationship with my editor is a lifetime relationship. I'm so glad I knew who she was--had met her--before we began to publish together!

Mel: How did you go about building relationships with editors?

Toni: ANY time an editor wrote me a personal response, I followed up, usually with another submission. Not always immediately, of course, but editors have long memories, Jane taught me. And I tried to find ways to meet that editor. It was a SLOW process, but well worth it. It's important to BUILD relationships over time.

Mel: How did these relationships affect your ultimate publication?

Toni: Actually, my dear friend Nancy introduced me to my editor (she is Nancy's editor, too!), who then began to read my work, and ultimately, after three years of saying "No," she said "Yes." Well, in between, she said "No" and "I think..." and gave me lots of useful feedback and encouraged me! And to this day, I have wonderful relationships with those other editors who gave me good feedback. And, should I ever need another, second publishing house, I would choose from among those editors too.

ckm: Hi,Toni. It's Christine. Do you think story books are still a viable form for publishers?

Toni: Christine, we're seeing fewer and fewer of them aren't we? I think that publishers no longer have patience for longer picture books/story books. I think, listening to my editor friends, this is because demographically, in our society, the children have gotten younger and the parents have gotten busier--facts of life. I hope story books come back. One of my favorite longer picture books/story books of all time is Haemi Balgassi's Peacebound Trains.

Mel: LOL, I was just going to ask you for a favorite, Toni! (-:}

del: Toni, can you advise on the STRUCTURE of a picture book? Thanks!

Toni: Del, the STRUCTURE of a picture book! Ack! :< Well, if you look at my two picture books, The Sea Chest and Dawdle Duckling you will see that I don't have a set pattern in my mind, no template that I use. I AM fond of the (1) try and fail, (2) try and fail, (3) try and succeed structure, but I broke that with Dawdle (with four misbehaviors). Yet I DID follow it with my upcoming picture book, Little Loon and Papa. With The Sea Chest, there is just one deep longing that is ever present, and then resolved in a dramatic event. I know that isn't a very clear answer, del.

Mel: Any hints as to what Little Loon and Papa is about, Toni?

Toni: Sure, Mel. For those of you who know Dawdle Duckling, it is a young (ages 2-6) picture book illustrated in fabulously RICH and BRIGHT pastels by a California artist named Margaret Spengler (look for it in vast quantities on the ladder display at the entrance to every Barnes and Noble store in the nation (she said humbly :>). Little Loon and Papa is something of a companion book. This time, the main character is a little loon whose fatal flaw is his timidity. Papa tries to teach him to dive, and Little Loon backs off toward shore and encounters THREE other Maine animals before the situation REQUIRES him to act courageously and dive!

ckm: Do you think editors like to see the same type of book from their authors, for example, picture books, or are they happy if you can do picture books, and easy readers, and middle-grade books, and young adult books?

Toni: Well, yes and no. I notice that my dear friend Nancy is here. She believes very strongly in making a name for oneself in a single genre--branding of a writer, if you will. I think it is very smart and so do editors. Nancy is the author of multiple YA thrillers, including The Killer’s Cousin, which won the Edgar Award. However--and didn't you know there'd be a HOWEVER? :>--I am not going to be a branded gal. If you've read The Sea Chest, which is beautiful and lyrical and sad (a customer burst into tears in Borders today when she read it!) and you've read that sassy duckling story, Dawdle Duckling: "No! QUACK! QUACK! I won't catch up!", you know that I've already blown any chance at "branding"! And when I asked my editor over lunch last week what she’d like me to work on next, my picture book under contract (but not yet written) or my novel, she said, "Follow your heart." So, of course, now I have a third idea!

Mel: What was the origin of the story in The Sea Chest?

Toni: I encountered that wonderful Maine legend of the baby in the sea chest on a video about Maine lighthouses when preparing for an author visit from the fabulous Deborah Hopkinson (who wrote Birdie’s Lighthouse, among a million other acclaimed picture books).

Mel: How long did it take to write The Sea Chest?

Toni: Well, it took me about five days--or maybe three--to write the first draft.

Mel: YIKES, that’s quick!

Toni: And I was sure that it was fabulous, (which it was, though not quite ready to go!). But then, I revised it for about six months before submitting it to an editor.

Toni: That editor gave me really solid feedback and didn't want to see it again.

Mel: LOL!

Toni: My friend Franny (Billingsley) MADE me rework the piece according to that editor's feedback, because Franny had written me critique notes saying the same thing--which I chose to ignore. LOL! So then it went to an editor who fell in love with it; she and I met at a conference. She took me through a fabulous revision--a light revision--and took it to committee. The publisher at that house rejected it, saying it would never sell in bookstores. LOL! It's in its third printing in six months!

Mel: What was "wrong" with the book, that you fixed, in between editors, Toni?

Toni: Structure! It took too long to get to the precipitous event. And I also added the frame story!

Mel: Tell us more about that "frame story."

Toni: You know, oddly, I can't remember writing it! In the frame story, there is a lonely only child in more modern times (the 1950's) waiting for her parents to bring home an adoptive child from overseas. That resonance is so powerful in the story and I can't remember when I added it! That was my MUSE at work on OVERTIME! I was lucky to have a very stong roll.

Mel: What was your role in the illustration process, Toni?

Toni: I was lucky to have a very strong role. Mary GrandPre (the Harry Potter illustrator) lives in Minnesota and was unable to come to Maine to do illustration research. So my editor asked me to work from sketches she sent me to determine what editing needed to be done for historical and natural accuracy. What a blast! I love to share that with kids in my school visits. It's an amazing workshop on RESEARCH! As a librarian AND a writer, I love RESEARCH!

Mel: Did it really HAPPEN, historically, that a baby survived in a sea chest gone overboard from a sinking ship?

Toni: You'll see in the editor's note that most likely it DIDN'T happen. The director of the Boothbay (Maine) Historical Museum has researched the very logs at Hendricks Head Lighthouse and found no mention of a sea chest. Since everything important needed to be recorded in the log, the arrival of a sea chest would surely have been there. However, many mid-coast Mainers do believe it's true.

kimmar: Did you yourself break the "three tries" pattern in Dawdle Duck, or was that your editor's suggestion?

Toni: No, I structured it that way from the beginning. And I like it. Native Americans do cleave to the pattern of four, so that is a pattern that is ingrained in humans too! We have several internal templates, I believe. But I did like the FEEL of three in Little Loon and Papa (which Margaret Spengler will also illustrate).

Mel: What was the origin of the story of Dawdle Duckling--published only last January 27, by the way?

Toni: My oldest friend from childhood, Mike, was on vacation with me and my family in June 2000 after my son Toph's high school graduation. I happen to be married to Mike’s brother, by the way, and he saw this family of ducks all swimming in a row, and the littlest one, he said, was zigging and zagging until something scared the mama and she called them all to jump on her back. When he told me that, I IMMEDIATELY--no passing go, no collecting $200--got a pen and started writing! The book is dedicated to him!

Mel: How long did it take to write?

Toni: Well, I wrote the first draft in a week, then re-worked it for five months and sent it to my agent who promptly sold it to my editor.

Mel: WHEN, in the process of your writing, did you obtain an agent?

Toni: After I sold my first book but before we executed the contract.

Mel: What was Dawdle Duck’s path to publication?

Toni: My agent sent it to my editor, who had published The Sea Chest. I bet my agent a bag of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups that she wouldn’t buy it. She did, and I sent him the candy! Cinderella story!

Mel: A SWEET loss! (-:}

Toni: He is hard of hearing now because I screamed so LOUDLY in his ear when he called on January 3, 2001! :>

Mel: Why were you surprised that the editor BOUGHT Dawdle Duck, Toni, when she had already bought The Sea Chest?

Toni: If you've read the two books, you'll see they are as different as marshmallow and granite. I couldn't imagine she would love both, but she truly does. That's what I love about my editor Lauri Hornik--well ONE thing I love about her. She truly loves my work, and says so.

mbvoelker: Could you talk a little about nonfiction picturebooks? Sometimes the line between fiction and nonfiction in picture books seems blurry to me. How much flexibility do you have--while still keeping your facts accurate? Is "lyrical" language compatible with nonfiction?

Toni: Well, I don't write nonfiction picture books, but as a librarian I know lots about them. I think there is a LOT of room for lyricism in nonfiction picture books. But I also think, as a librarian, I want the FACTS to be accurate. I don't want fictionalization. If you have read When Marian Sang by my friend Pam Munoz Ryan--a good example--that book is so perfect in so many ways, and just won the Orbus Pictus Award for nonfiction.

kimmar: Were there many revisions with your editor before contracts were offered on your first two picture books?

Toni: Good question, kimmar! No, in a word. Lauri took me through two light revisions of The Sea Chest, nothing structural but some emotional deepening and some language things. With Dawdle Duckling, there were only tiny little things. Same with Little Loon and Papa.

But the changes we DID make made a substantial difference in the manuscripts. Lauri helped me to see that the parent-child relationship was not reciprocal in the end, and I worked to understand why and to revise for that.

Mel: How did you decide in The Sea Chest, to begin the story with an adult telling a story to the child, Toni?

Toni: I have NO idea! Honest. Remember what I said about the frame story.

Mel: Yes.

Toni: It was a gift from my muse but I don't remember it coming to me. A stroke of genius from somewhere. :>

Mel: My wife, who was in line to read The Sea Chest after me,(-:} said it was the most lyrical and "musical" picture book she's ever read!

Toni: Thank your wife!

Mel: OK! Toni, what was the origin of your forthcoming picture book, Little Loon and Papa--due out in the spring of 2004?

Toni: Well, Little Loon and Papa has a great origin story. My editor wrote me an e-mail one day that said, "Booksellers say there aren't enough Father's Day books. Any ideas about that?" That was it. I was startled. No one had ever asked me to write a specific sort of story. I had NO ideas until I remembered--LOL!--that I write animal stories. Then my husband said that some birds mate for life and I got excited to find out if loons (a favorite Maine bird of ours) did (which they do) and my son and I began to play around with plot ideas and then SCHOOL HIT. I'm a school librarian and my writing life slows down tremendously when school starts. I wrote not more than five words (all abortive attempts to play with the idea) until a writing retreat in mid-October. There, I wrote the story in--don't stone me!--ONE DAY!

Mel: Stones, stones! (-:}

Toni: I revised for a week and sold it in one more week! It was my one and only gift of that kind from the writing gods, I'm sure! But what they say about a story cooking when you're not even thinking must be true!

Mel: If your rate of speed keeps up, Toni, you'll be writing and publishing your next book in about one week, I figure!

Toni: The darned illustrators are SO SLOW :> But wait, wait! Let me redeem myself. I have been working on the same novel for seven years! I am doing a revision for my editor now and have been for a year.

Mel: Here comes another good question!

lizr: What writing retreat did you go to in mid-October that gave you the opportunity to write it all down in one day?

Toni: Of course, I will no longer be able to answer questions, having been stoned! LOL!

Mel: No, PLEASE, I'll take the stones back! (-:}

Toni: LOL, lizr, every year, I retreat with eight other writers up the coast of Maine. It's just group of us who rent out a whole bed & breakfast and write like fiends for four days. We've been doing it for seven years. On the fourth day, I wrote this book! And my best critique partners were there to give constant feedback :> The first draft was a total, dreadful MESS. But my former mentor, Jane, was there to say, "Hey, I think you could toss the whole thing and just start with the last stanza!" LOL! It worked!

Mel: That's a GREAT idea, Toni, to rent a bed & breakfast all to yourselves!

Toni: It is FABULOUS!

lizr: I like your sense of humor Toni ;o)

Toni: Thanks, lizr. My son and husband say I have NO sense of humor :> Of course, they do laugh at my jokes.

kimmar: Do you know many writers who work with more than one editor?

Toni: Most of my friends work with more than one editor. I know VERY few who have only one, kimmar.

lizr: I lOVE that idea of a writing retreat for four days with writing friends!

Toni: It is the PERFECT situation. You take a built in critique group with you---one you trust. I actually retreat with three different groups like this using this model. Follow-up to the more-editors-than-one question?

Mel: Yes, a follow-up. WHY DO few writers these days have only ONE editor?

Toni: Well, editors CHANGE HOUSES constantly. If you stay behind at the old house and ALSO move on with your editor. Voila! Plus, some people are too prolific for one editor.

buttercup: Why did you decide to find an agent?

Toni: I didn't :> My FRIENDS found me an agent. Two friends met him at a conference, told him all about me, and introduced us (on the phone)--and the rest is history. But I had, earlier, wanted an agent because the submissions tracking was taking too much time!

lizr: I think we discussed the many-editor concept on the Tuesday ICL chat--something about how an editor will only publish one of your new books per season, because if more were published, your books would compete against each other.

Toni: That's very true. Goodness, many houses won't publish more than one book by the same author a YEAR. But certainly, we won't see more than one per season. So, if you're prolific, you must have more than one house. I can tell you as a librarian, though, even if you publish at different houses in the same season, your books will compete against each other for sales!

Mel: You mentioned a NOVEL you're writing earlier, Toni? Can you tell us when and how that started?

Toni: The novel story was my FIRST children's book idea, actually. There is an ancient pine on our property. I imagined, when Toph was little, what it would be like if he and his best friend went up into that rogue pine (it's HUGE) and time-traveled back to the colonial days when it was saved from being cut as a mast pine for a ship. That was the origin of the story. It's now a middle-grade colonial time travel novel. I started it seven years ago!

kimmar: I don't think I'd mind the submission tracking thing, it's the CONTRACTS that scare me!

Toni: Contracts ARE scary. I negotiated the first one myself, before my agent came on the scene to execute it, and it was nerve-wracking. But kimmar, as your body of work grows, the submitting takes up an awful lot of time.

Mel: What is your favorite genre, Toni?

Toni: I adore realistic, contemporary, somewhat dark Young Adult. I suppose that means that I am destined to write it someday. I also love historical fiction, middle grade, and beautiful or funny picture books. There, have I covered ALL genres? :>

Mel: By realistic, contemporary, somewhat dark YA, do you mean a novel like HOLES?

Toni: No. I mean Speak, Staying Fat for Sarah Byrnes, America, and A Step From Heaven. I think HOLES is a middle-grade contemporary tall tale, a genre to itself.

Mel: Who are your favorite children’s authors?

Toni: Pat Giff, Patricia Hermes, Nancy Werlin, Katherine Paterson, Karen Hesse, Laurie Halse Anderson, Franny Billingsley, Jane Kurtz, of course, among many others. OH, and Chris Crutcher!

Mel: How does your work as a children's librarian influence your work as a writer?

Toni: ENORMOUSLY! First of all, it is my life's work to read and think about and share children's literature. How perfect is that for a children's author? Plus, I have been a children's/YA book reviewer for 15 years. I know about good children's books from the inside out.

Mel: It sounds like you don't ever plan to retire from librarianing to just writing! (-:}

Toni: Well, I would rather NOT. It is the perfect blend of careers.

vera: How can I find out about publishers in other countries?

Toni: Hi, Vera! You know, SCBWI (the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators--you belong, I'm sure) is an international organization. I am sure that the Regional Advisors in other countries can help you.

kimmar: Toni, you should mention Terrific Connections.

Toni: Okay, kimmar. I'm also the author of several professional books. One of them is Terrific Connections with Authors, Illustrators, and Storytellers. It is a fabulous guide for teachers and librarians, as well as authors and illustrators, for structuring the VERY best author and illustrator visits in schools and libraries. We (my co-author Jane Kurtz and I) tackle both real-space visits and virtual visits! I highly recommend it as a wonderful resource for authors and illustrators. SCBWI carries it at all of its national and many of

its regional conferences.

Mel: THANKS, Toni, a super suggestion!

lizr: Now that you have publishing success and an agent, do you find that you are spending MORE time writing and less time on market research/tracking etc.?

Toni: Absolutely not :> Well, less time on market research, absolutely, lizr. But that kind of time is doubled spent on marketing my books.

kimmar: What's your favorite way to market your books?

Toni: Good question, kimmar! I love to do school and library visits and I love book signings. I guess those are my favorites. I will be appearing at two MA libraries tomorrow--Danvers and Topsfield.

Mel: How does your work as a children's book reviewer influence your work as a writer?

Toni: I think it has a significant influence. I read my work with the critical eye of a reviewer at times, and that is something that I wouldn't be able to do if I weren't trained to be tuned in to flaws, structural falterings, inauthentic dialogue, etc. It does make for annoying READING habits, however :>

Mel: How did you get started in book reviewing, Toni?

Toni: I am a member of a group of children's reviewers for the Southern Maine Library District Children's Book Review, which has been around for 20+ years!

kimmar: It amazes me that with the "flaws" you find, so many of these "flawed" books get published.

Toni: Kim, me too. I think that it is a rare book that is unflawed (which is not to say that a flawed book can’t still be good), and that editors take an author as far as they can and then at some point, they let the manuscript go and be published. It's why it is SO important to learn to revise in a responsive fashion and well.

Mel: Toni, I wish we had two hours more to listen to you tonight--and I have the feeling other people here in the chat room could, too. But we've come to the end of a very swiftly passing two hours, and we must let you go. I am VERY grateful to you for coming tonight. And I'd like it very much if you would come BACK to our chat room someday. I hope you enjoyed it HALF as much as I did!

Toni: I would love to come back to this chat anytime you are ready for me!

Mel: Please come back to our chat room two weeks from tonight, March 6, when Victoria Sherrow will be with us. Victoria is the author of EIGHTY nonfiction children's books, including biography and science. She has also published picture books, as well as short fiction. See you back here March 6--and THANKS for coming tonight, children's writers!

Toni: Great questions and nary a lull!

Mel: And SPECIAL THANKS to you again, Toni Buzzeo, for sharing your valuable experience in writing for children. We have learned LOTS AND LOTS from you tonight!

Toni: You are welcome. Night all!

Mel: BYE, see you next week!