Instititute of Children's Literature

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Transcripts

"Sports Writing for Kids: More than Scores" with Thomas S. Owens

Thursday, October 12, 2000

Moderator is Kristi Holl, author of 24 books and the web editor for this site.

Tom is Thomas S. Owens, author of more than 40 books, the majority being sports titles, including the six-book series Game Plan (21st Century Books).

Names color coded in blue are viewers who had questions.

Interviews begin promptly in the Scheduled Events Room on Thursday evenings at 9 p.m. Atlantic/Canada, 8 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Central, 6 p.m. Mountain, and 5 p.m. Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening, everyone! Welcome to tonight's interview with Thomas S. Owens on the subject of "Sports Writing for Kids: More than Scores." I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator and the web editor for this site. Tom is the author of more than 40 books, including the six-book series Game Plan. He's here to discuss the fun and inspiration behind sports writing for young readers. Welcome, Tom! Glad you made it!

Tom: Thank you for your patience. I am here!

Moderator: To get acquainted, Tom, how did you get started writing?

Tom: I started reading the sports section in elementary school and I wanted to know about the professional athletes I could never see in Central Iowa. Soon, I started writing letters asking for autographs. To get good results, I had to know about these men.

Moderator: Do you have a "day job" too, or can you write full-time?

Tom: Good question. By combining magazine work with nonfiction book contracts I was able to pay the bills. Of course, I only have houseplants and two cats and an incredible wife who has supported my projects!

Moderator: For the topic of the evening, what exactly is sports writing? Just game recaps?

Tom: No, it's feeling a sport and understanding what emotions it takes to play.

Moderator: Who is qualified to write about sports? What about the people [LIKE ME] who never played sports?

Tom: Playing is not necessary. I did play Little League, but I was never a star. Loving and understanding a sport is the key.

Moderator: What can a writer learn from youth athletics?

Tom: First, how does the sport work? Such as what are the rules and strategies? The subtle areas of the sport? You can learn about team dynamics, too!

Moderator: Are there differences in writing about girls' sports?

Tom: Not really. Girls are competitors. How they are seen by the public, and their peers: that is an off-the-field matter which makes great nonfiction or FICTION! But really, a competitive spirit is just that, regardless of gender!

diana l miller: What sports are best for small children say ages 3-9?

Tom: Thank you for asking about choices for that age group. First, boredom is a factor to take into consideration. In soccer, for example, kids never stop moving! But baseball is a thoughtful game, slow to many while waiting for something to happen in YOUR part of the field. Basketball would be another possible choice for that age group.

Moderator: Some would-be sports authors may say, "I don't live in a good place. There are no pro sports within hours of where I live. How can I write about sports?"

Tom: With TV and radio and the Internet, sports are everywhere and you can reach any sports team via phone, FAX or e-mail!

Moderator: Can someone write about a pro sport like Major League Baseball when the nearest team may be 4-6 hours away in Kansas City or Minneapolis?

Tom: Think more broadly. Do these teams have games broadcast in your area? And are there natives who play for these teams where YOU live? For example, I live in Iowa and I have found that retired players from Iowa are delighted to help an Iowa author. Check out the six-book series Game Plan, and look up the birthplaces of the former players I interviewed.

Moderator: Why are good questions for interviews so important in sports writing?

Tom: Do you want good answers? Answers with meat? Well so many athletes love meaningless slang like "I gave 110 percent" or "it was a team effort." But if you ask WHY, then you can uncover some emotions and reasons behind the wins and losses. If you ask a player something vague like, "How does it feel to win?" what do you THINK they'll say? They'll say what millions of players before answered.

Moderator: Can you explain what you mean about a "good question" or "bad question"?

Tom: A bad question is like "When were you born?" That answer is EVERYWHERE. Baseball cards, media guides . . . You need to do your homework! Another goofy question has been, "Coach, what will you do after this loss?" Many coaches snarl and say, "Why would I tell you?" Or they say, "Why would I tell. you AND THE OTHER TEAM?!?" Strategies are sacred to coaches. Players are more anxious to talk about their work ethic and plans for success!

diana l miller: So, what you are saying is that, if you can go to a sports event, interview some of the players on the spot after the game?

Tom: Depends. Do you have a press pass allowing you access? Also it's easiest to establish rapport BEFORE a game. Players want to celebrate or sleep after a win or loss. The whole thing about ambushing a player is that the player isn't sure who you are, or who will read his answers.

Kevin: Before an interview, do you read the players' books and previous interviews? How well informed are you when you go in for an interview?

Tom: Excellent question, Kevin! I do study. Sometimes, you'll see that in magazines, newspapers or books that the player left a question half-answered. Being able to say, "I read that you feel this way about the topic of so-and-so" excites a player. They will trust you more. And they have egos, like all of us. When my wife interviewed basketball Hall of Famer Rick Barry, he interrupted a question she asked about the time after a game police stopped a woman fan beating him with a purse. He wanted to dismiss the incident as just a crazed fanatic. But Rick finally explained how his on-court persona incited fiery emotions in everyone. He admitted that he worried if fans and foes misjudged him by knowing only part of him, that on-court part.

Mom of 3: How do you conduct an interview with someone you feel intimidated by?

Tom: I have felt that way before. (That's one bonus to reaching someone on the telephone!) In an interview, good eye contact is important, and realizing that you ask your best question first: these are two key strategies to boost your confidence. Sometimes women reporters have it either better or worse. Some players are simply amazed that a woman writes about sports. Others need to see that a woman really knows sports well. There can still be an attitude that women (especially over 40) must not know anything about sports.

Moderator: Besides asking good questions, do you have other tips for a good interview?

Tom: Ask how much time the subject has. At a ballpark, there are no guarantees about time. A coach can say "HOLL. HERE! NOW!"

Mom of 3: I am doing an interview with the Head Master of a well know Martial Arts School. Having never done anything like this before, I feel lost. I want to submit to Black Belt Magazine & to Black Belt for Kids. How should I start? What is the proper format for quoting the head master? Would I address him by name, or by title in the articles?

Tom: Read at least 6 back issues, cover to cover, so you know what the editor does and DOES NOT like. Look for style, use of quotes, sidebars (a two-paragraph box somewhere), if the overall tone is more formal or informal, and the range of subjects covered. If the magazine is not listed in a writer's guide, write to the magazine for author's guidelines.

Mom of 3: How do you decide the order of your questions for the interview? Can you rearrange the order when typing it up?

Tom: Of course you can rearrange questions. Most of all, listen carefully. A subject might want you to ask more about that last answer. So ask for examples and reactions. In all, you can write the article any way the magazine accepts. Do NOT think that all magazines everywhere want only Q: and A: formats.

Kevin: Do you tape record your interviews?

Tom: Ah, a nice, thoughtful question! I try not to tape. Why? Several reasons, such as knowing it takes 7 minutes to transcribe 1 minute of tape. And you might find you use only 1/3 to 1/2 of the interview. Background noise can make the tape a mess, in which case you'll wish you took notes anyway. My biggest reason? I find that if someone gives a fascinating answer, I can say let me get this straight. They will repeat it, or explain what I misunderstood. Also, lesser-known players can be intimidated by a tape recorder!

Kevin: One more question: How friendly do you act toward your interview subject--are you really formal or informal?

Tom: These are swell questions, Kevin. I would say respectful is the key. You don't want to be a gushing fan, but you don't want to seem bored or unimpressed by their status as an athlete. They have spent years perfecting their skills. They want to know you are knowledgeable. Let me add that some interviewers try too hard to relate and say, "I know about baseball. I played Little League." Don't. Pros are pros. We are humans.

klange: How about writing about the experiences of say, a Hockey mom :-)?

Tom: Sure! Just be sure to look objectively at your position. How? First, realize that other people are like you or they might think, they've felt MORE THAN YOU. Then, write with honesty, and note your change and growth, your beliefs about hockey, kids, etc.

Moderator: Do you take photographs yourself as part of the interview?

Tom: I try not to. Teams will furnish great photos on request. I try to write well. That's it. But also, you have to get a photo pass if you want to shoot photos on team property. Teams are leery of reporters shooting photos in locker rooms, etc.

Moderator: Do you or can you interview online?

Tom: Yes! In fact, former players may be online. I have found former players with their own web sites, selling books, vitamins, etc. And teams can be reached online. You can explain the story or book you want to write and sometimes you can get one question answered. Such as the Dodgers had a pro soccer star interning in their business office and we found him even though we don't speak Portuguese. We were able to e-mail three questions and he prepared a written response. Just know that you still have to be able to use the telephone if for nothing more than saying THANKS to helpful sources in team PR offices!

Moderator: Where can a writer obtain photos for a profile without paying very high prices?

Tom: The team is the best place to start. And players may know some resources. Some hire photographers to shoot PR photos of the player.

Moderator: Would collectibles magazines want articles about sports, or just sports memorabilia?

Tom: Why do people want sports memorabilia? Because it evokes memories of the sport. I tell kids they can see baseball's past through collectibles. In my book COLLECTING SPORTS MEMORABILIA (MILLBROOK PRESS) I told about how museums are accepting and displaying scrapbooks and signs fans hold up at ballparks. In short, we are sports history. Kids love knowing that the players and teams they like will help change sports history.

Moderator: Would any team actually pay for your writing?

Tom: You bet. I have sold articles to nine different baseball teams. And my wife has sold word puzzles and other features to the Los Angeles Dodgers score book magazine kid pages. Some teams prepare newsletters just for kid fans!

diana l miller: Would you ask permission for an interview of a high school football team? Do you ask the principal or the coach?

Tom: Always the coach. And know that a coach might worry about the politics of having only some players featured in print. A coach is a teacher and wants to create harmony on the team regardless of one or two stars.

Moderator: Will teams try hard to help writers? Don't pro teams want to get the most publicity by helping out the most writers?

Tom: This is a sad truth of sports writing for kids. I find that some teams are not eager to help a children's book author. I am just completing COLLECTING STOCK CAR RACING MEMORABILIA (Millbrook Press). The publicists for NASCAR drivers and teams are slow to respond because they have never dealt with a children's book. They have the mindset of scrambling for a few more paragraphs in a newspaper, even though the paper might be in the trash the next day. And publicists worry that books will make tons of money. They want cuts for clients and THEMSELVES. If only they knew!

Moderator: One writer wrote: I can't get into a game as a freelancer. Where else could I get an interview with a current player?

Tom: Would you believe the game might be the WORST place to reach players? Look at the competition. Plus the players are at work. They try BEFORE the game, maybe days before, to do PR, and sell tickets. I'd suggest looking to the off-season. Players can be found giving speeches, signing autographs. And newspaper reporters don't bother with these events, meaning that YOU might be the only one there for an interview.

Kevin: How can you find out a list of local appearances so you can show up there?

Tom: First, ask fans: where have they seen known players in the area? Then, check with local media. And try to learn about clinics/camps and youth events. Sometimes schools will inform students. Also, SPORTS COLLECTORS DIGEST is a weekly magazine (with me as its former coeditor). They run an exhaustive list of hobby shows where these current and former athletes appear. And the list includes a phone number for a show promoter, who may help arrange the interview.

Moderator: If I write about one of the four major, most popular sports -- football, basketball, baseball or hockey -- will I have the best chance of getting published?

Tom: Not necessarily. After the Olympics people wanted to know about the events millions watched on TV, such as cross-county biking and synchronized swimming. Those events happen where YOU live. Could you explain the rules to young readers? Or what kind of practice schedule it would take for a kid to make the Olympics in 8 to 12 years?

Moderator: For writing profiles, whether it's a magazine article or book-length biography, wouldn't it be best to get interviews with the hottest star players? Are kids interested in lesser players?

Tom: If YOU make it interesting, a kid can be interested in anyone. In my wife's book BELLES OF THE BALLPARK (Millbrook Press) Casey Candaele was not an all-star. But he was a former major leaguer who learned the game from his MOTHER. She was a superstar in the All American Girls Professional Baseball League. Casey did not learn until he was in high school that his mom was once a sports superstar. This made a lesser-known player much more interesting, someone kids -- all those with mothers -- could relate to!

Moderator: When covering major sports, does anyone else make a good interview besides actual players, and why?

Tom: Anyone connected with the game, such as umpires, referees, the ballpark organist, even the peanut vendor. They can take time to study each play and player. Diana sold an article about Nancy Hefley, the Dodger Stadium organist, to the TEAM magazine. She had been playing at the ballpark, hired by the team, for more than five seasons. But no one in the team PR office ever thought to feature her. The organist had interesting things to say about players writing her notes, requesting songs during the game, proving that so many people are connected in every sport.

Moderator: Would you ever interview a fan?

Tom: That is a GREAT question. As a matter of fact, I am featuring fan memories in the upcoming four-book series (Millbrook Press) covering FOOTBALL PALACES, BASKETBALL PALACES and HOCKEY PALACES. Players cannot tell you often what color the seats were, what kind of scoreboard there was, or any other physical details about an arena. Fans can and will! And fans can tell you what it means to sit in Ebbets Field, a fact kids can only imagine.

Moderator: I had never thought about needing to know those kinds of facts and details!

Tom: Yes, a job I think many of you might qualify for in children's publishing is as a fact checker. Many editors know nothing about sports. They need someone who can make sure the author speaks the sports language, and has quoted the statistics correctly. It pays and it's a good FOOT IN THE DOOR at a publishing house too.

Moderator: What are some helpful groups for future sportswriters?

Tom: There are historical groups, plus research groups such as the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR). These groups publish newsletters, and have online mailing lists. But the best part, besides annual conventions, is that you can connect with other members, and many of them are teachers or PUBLISHED AUTHORS. Most are quite well-studied in certain areas (such as the Negro Leagues or umpires) and love their field. They will help when asked by a fellow member.

Moderator: What kinds of new "treatments" -- types of coverage -- are making memorable children's sports books?

Tom: Picture book biographies and sometimes just one game such as DIRT IN THEIR SKIRTS, a picture book, a historical fiction which tells of a young girl watching a championship between two Girls League baseball teams in the 1940s. Books on minorities, about disabled who excel in that sport, these are frontiers in publishing. And some leagues are licensing books. There is a line of fiction about cool kid characters going to NASCAR races. Get known as an expert in the field and you might get a gig like that. Books now are more than "What's your favorite food? What's your family like?" Books are sharing a player's philosophy and strategy.

Moderator: Are there any other overlooked markets for children's sports writers?

Tom: Children's book publishing remains an overlooked market, believe it or not. Because there are always openings for unusual treatments. Dan Gutman has written historical sports fiction about a boy who travels back in time whenever he touches a baseball card. The GAME PLAN books each cover a pro sport. They look at how a player might not be the tallest or strongest, but he or she could still study their strengths and the weaknesses of foes, learning how to serve their own team while defeating the competition.

Moderator: How can sports Web sites help authors?

Tom: Imagine opening the window and shouting: "Who knows this?" A web site lets you connect with experts. Some might be superfans who put up team or player tributes at their own time and expense. These people are libraries. They collect articles on their favorites and are WORRIED that writers will get the facts wrong about their favorites. They also can tell you about how more people should read about, or write about, a certain area of a player's life or key career moments.

Moderator: How can writers find names and addresses of some major sports web sites?

Tom: It's easy. If you want to know about the Chicago Bulls, start by typing in a www, then key words. Chances are you could stumble onto official and unofficial web sites. Of course, search engines like Yahoo are great aids, too. The following are a few of my favorite URLs:

FOR BASEBALL

www.majorleaguebaseball.com (which has links to all team web sites)

www.minorleaguebaseball.www.sabr.org (the Society for American Baseball Research)

www.baseball-links.com (an information clearinghouse. Thousands of baseball links, in categories)

FOR FOOTBALL

www.nfl.com (includes team web site links)

http://www.footballresearch.com (Pro Football Researchers Association)

www.ballparks.com (past, present and future stadiums -- covering ALL pro sports)

www.profootballhof.com (Hall of Fame, museum and library in Canton, OH)

FOR BASKETBALL

www.nba.com

www.wnba.com

www.cbahoops.com (Continental Basketball Association -- there are other pro leagues!)

www.remembertheaba.com (an excellent example of sports history)

www.hoopshall.com (the Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, MA)

FOR HOCKEY

www.nhl.com

www.hockeyresearch.com (Hockey Researchers Association)

www.thn.com (The Hockey News)

www.nhlpa.com (Players Association)

Tom: A quick comment for 'Hockey Mom' and others out there, especially those who might be teachers or librarians. Get to know nonfiction book publishers like Lerner and Enslow. They need EXPERT READERS to evaluate manuscripts. Get a resume together, even without any publishing credits, and tell in the cover letter about your sports knowledge. An expert reader looks at a finished manuscript, and judges if the text is authentic to that sport, and will teach and reach the desired age group. This job pays, too, and it's another introduction to editors!

Moderator: Thanks for that tip, Tom! Say, what are fan publications? Are they good starts for children's authors?

Tom: Yes there are many fan publications. One of my favorites is DODGERS DUGOUT, published by a retired man in Nebraska named TOT HOLMES. Fan publications are often nonpaying markets, but they reach the die-hard fans, and they can give you published clips about sports!

Moderator: Where do sports books sell the most? To schools? In bookstores? At ball games? Museums?

Tom: For sports books for kids, mostly schools and libraries. Some paperback star bios will be everywhere, but mainly, the books excite teachers and librarians who want boys to read.

Moderator: When selling a sports book, did you submit the whole thing, or a query, or a proposal?

Tom: It depends on the publisher, and your reputation, but mainly for nonfiction, you start with a query and then you'll find an editor guiding you on length and format. If you are a fairly unpublished author, editors will probably want a detailed outline and 1-3 sample chapters. It is a gamble. They are taking a chance on you, so you take a chance, with unpaid time by working up a big proposal.

Moderator: What goes into such a proposal? How much research and detail do you include?

Tom: You have to answer certain questions. First, do you have access to that subject, the player or team? And how would your book or article be different? You need to outline the topics you can cover. Will the book be looking at one year, a decade, or a whole history?

JAMES55CLINTON: Would you do a rewrite for a children's publisher without assurance of publication or payment?

Tom: Thank you, sir. I like this question. I would ask the editor, 'What happens when I get this done?' In other words, will there be a limit to the amount of rewriting? And will you get specific guidance? I will not name past editors who have made me bonkers by saying, "That just doesn't work." I'd reply, "What would you like to work?" Essentially they say, "Well, NOT THAT!"

Moderator: Sounds frustrating! How can librarians help children's authors in addition to finding material?

Tom: While they will not work as your unpaid editor and critiquer, librarians can answer many questions. Such as what topics or personalities are kids asking for? Which are the subjects for reports? And which books are MOST STOLEN? Some kids may feel they can't live without a certain title. That is not fun to think about, but it tells you if a title really captivates a kid! Also librarians know what books people want that simply HAVE NOT been written yet. Or, they may tell you that the only books on that subject are out of print, or just plain stinky.

Kevin: Do editors expect children's sports books to look kind of like web sites now? I've seen some with small chunks of text, lots of pictures, "bytes" of information, etc. Is this a trend now?

Tom: It depends on the publisher. The layout on my upcoming book COLLECTING BASEBALL CARDS, THE 21ST CENTURY EDITION (Millbrook Press) shocked me at first with its many boxes of text. But it looked NEW. It will look like other books released in 2001. Whether the layout and typesetting look as silly as bellbottomed trousers in 10 years, who knows?

Moderator: I'm sorry to interrupt here, but we're out of time already. I know how much we've enjoyed Tom's stories and were so glad he was able to finally get in with us! Thank you, Tom, for taking time to share with us about sports writing. You made it sound like fun!

Tom: Thank you, everyone. Share with each other, and ask questions! Good-bye.

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks to hear Nancy Furstinger discuss "Writing about Animals." Nancy is a full-time freelance writer and editor who has worked in newspaper, magazine, and children's book publishing, including as managing editor for Simon & Schuster and copy chief for Troll Associates. In 2000 three of her books on animals are due out: Catskill Creatures, Creative Crafts for Critters, and The Interactive Dog Book: Fun Stuff to Do with Your Best Friend. Are you an animal lover and would like to use this in your writing? Then you won't want to miss Nancy Furstinger's interview in two weeks! In the meantime, good night, everyone!

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