"Picture Books Waiting to be Written" with Toni Buzzeo

Mel: is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with Toni Buzzeo, and editor of the ICL Web Site.

Mel: A WARM WELCOME to you ALL to the ICL Chat Room, where you are going to really enjoy an extra special guest because she is returning, Toni Buzzeo. She has written two picture books, The Sea Chest and Dawdle Duckling. I still don't know, however, how Toni can get SO MUCH done. But I'm going to ask her, for sure. I am as excited as you are to have this fresh and new picture book super star back. Toni, WELCOME BACK to the chat room, and THANKS for coming!

Toni: Thanks, Mel! Hi Chatters! I'm so glad to be back.

Mel: Toni, I know I've asked you before, when you were here a year ago, but tell us phonetically how to pronounce your last name.

Toni: Buzz (like the bee) long E, long O

Mel: Buzz-EEE-Oh! Thanks! You told us about your son, I believe, when you were here last time, can you update us about him and your family, please?

Toni: Yes! Topher is 21 now, about to graduate from Williams College with a degree in Computer Science. He's looking for the elusive job. He'll be home for Easter this weekend. Hurrah! He has also decided that his first love is writing and has plans to start with a YA novel! Do I hear CHEERS???

Mel: CHEERSCHEERSCHEERS, and CONGRATULATIONS to Topher from us!!!
Did YOU have anything to do with Topher's decision to do that?

Toni: I actually didn't have anything to do with it in a specific way, but by example, definitely!

Toni: My husband, Ken, is still my major champion and companion and is thinking of leaving his current life for new horizons someday (but not leaving ME--smile!) We're all on the brink of new horizons.

Mel: How about YOU yourself, will there be changes ahead for you and your writing?

Toni: ENORMOUS CHANGES for me, yes.

Mel: Can you tell us about those?

Toni: I have just resigned from my beloved Library Media Specialist job (I've been an LMS for 15 years--11 of them at my current school). In June, when school ends, I'll leave it behind. This is a HUGE decision for me. People who know me know that I've always used my graduate degree letters with my name: Toni Buzzeo, MA, MLIS. A Friend quipped last week, "Now, you'll have to add FTW, Full Time Writer!

Mel: WOW, changes for sure! Will it be difficult for you to leave being librarian?

Toni: Soooo very difficult.

Mel: I'll bet the kids LOVE you, Toni!

Toni: I have loved it and I'm very very skilled at it. I was Maine Library Media Specialist of the Year in 1999. I considered that one of life's enormous honors! The kids DO love me—and I love them.

Mel: HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS, both on your 1999 award, AND your earning of your FTW! Was it your media specialist work that first got you into writing for children?

Toni: Not exactly.

Mel: How DID you get into it?

Toni: I had long wanted to write for children, as I was already a writer (even have a grad degree in English). But it was a long-range dream. When I had the opportunity to cut back to 4 days a week 8 1/2 years ago, I took it and started a self-directed "internship" in writing.

Mel: Did you expect your children’s writing career to skyrocket as it has in just 8.5 years?

Toni: Well, those first LONG five years sure didn't feel like skyrocketing before I sold my first book.

Mel: So you're just about four years away from selling your first book?

Toni: I sold The Sea Chest on September 5, 2000. That was five years and one day after I started my self-study!
Mel: HOW did that first sale come about--what were the specifics? Tell us the WHOLE story, please.

Toni: Okey doke!

Toni: I had submitted my ms. to several editors, two at a time, and gotten rejections with lovely comments. A Little Brown publishing company editor took me through a fabulous revision (making it much of what it is today), but then her publisher said no. We were both broken hearted.

Mel: YIKES! What'd you do then?

Toni: Well, meanwhile, I had submitted the unrevised manuscript to Lauri Hornik at Dial. She held it forEVER (five months I think). And I never followed up (which I ALWAYS did), but I was busy winning the Barbara Karlin grant and all such wonderful things. Finally, in August, she e-mailed me asking if it was still available. I told her it was but that there was a much newer version.

Mel: You were READY, then!

Toni: Yes, and she loved the newer revision even MORE and said she'd like to buy it, but her publisher was on vacation. And could I wait for four days. Ha! Four days! Compared to five years? Sure, I could wait. On Tuesday (after Labor Day) she called me and left a message that she wanted to buy it.

Mel: TINTINNABULATION!!! What were your exact feelings when you first knew they were going to buy it?

Toni: I jumped up and down in my kitchen SCREAMING with the friend who had brought me home from work!!! I was ELATED.

Mel: Did you have a feeling then that you would sell MORE and so soon?

Toni: I didn't even think about it at the time. I was at the top of the first mountain and not even noticing the other peaks around.

Mel: Would you agree that YOURS is a very unusually quick success story?

Toni: I think it is. I've heard that the average break-in time is NINE years now.

Mel: At LEAST, I'd think!

Toni: I hope that doesn't throw anyone into the depths of despair. But it should give you courage if it's taking a while.

Mel: NOPE, we NEED to be realistic, and want to know the truth!

Toni: I have a friend whose break-in time was 19 years and she was enormously committed and involved in SCBWI as a Regional Advisor and everything!

Mel: 19 years, YIKESEES! Toni, Last time you were here, about a year ago, you shared with us your marvelous system of marketing and keeping track of editors and publishers and your books. We'd love for you to tell us about that again, since it's so time-saving.

Toni: Okay. Editor Database 101.

Mel: YEAH!

Toni: DO THIS TOMORROW! :-) First, subscribe to Children's Writer (and Children's Book Insider too, if you're flush). Next, join CW and other on-line writer lists and communities.

Mel: Been there, done that, what next?

Toni: Third, if you know your SCBWI RA, ask him/her if you can read the monthly newsletters from each region. (They receive them ALL!)

Mel: What about joining those on-line writer lists you mentioned? What are they? Where do I find them?

Toni: Childrens Writer (CW) is the big listserv. I'd have to hop off for a minute while you talk among yourselves to find the info. But I can if you like. Or maybe someone here in chat has it at their fingertips and could post the info for those two.

Mel: What is the Yellow Board we’ve heard about—and how does it differ from the Childrens Writer listserv?

Toni: The Yellow Board is a bulletin board on which members (hundreds again) post messages. No mail comes to YOU. You have to VISIT a bulletin board to read and write messages---on a site online. Here’s how to get to The Yellow Board bulletin board. Go to http://write4kids.com/ and you can access the message from there--message BOARD, I mean.

Toni: Mel, I've got two sets of conflicting subscribe info for CW. Will you please ask if someone in the audience has the current info?

Mel: Does ANYone have the current subscribe info for Childrens Writer listserv? Let me know in a message and I'll pass it on. What happens at CW, exactly, Toni?

Toni: CW is a listserv to which many many children's writers and illustrators belong (including me). It is run through yahoo groups. People pose questions, answer questions, commiserate, and share. :) Hundreds of people!

Mel: And do you actually "talk to" each other on the listserv? How does communication come about?

Toni: Written e-mails are the mode of communication. It's not chat. You write e-mail to the list and receive e-mail from the list. You have to go get it :-)

Mel: What kinds of QUESTIONS might I ask at Childrens Writer and Yellow Board?

Toni: Well, Mel, whatever you want to know about children's writing and illustrating.

Mel: So we could ask ANYthing at those places?

Toni: Yes, anything! I haven't forgotten the original question but thought we'd wait until we got the CW subscribing info up for folks.

Mel: Here is is:

Mel: Thank you, stb!

Toni: Yes, that's it, by golly! Thanks, Susan! Okay, back to the question?

Mel: Basic question, Toni:

sweet_muse: What are SCBWI and RA?

Toni: Oh, the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators. You MUST join the national organization and your local chapter if you're serious. The RA is your Regional Advisor (of the SCBWI).

Mel: What are the benefits of SCBWI?

Toni: SCBWI is the best way to remain in the children's book writing and publishing information loop.

Mel: What did they do for YOU?

Toni: SCBWI introduced me to the broader world of children's publishing by giving me a picture of who was publishing what, which editors were looking for what, how I could become a better writer, and how I could connect with other writers.

Mel: All of that is INSIDE INFO for SURE! Thank you!

Toni: Mel, Being a "J" on the Myers-Briggs and VERY detail-oriented, can I ask you to ask me that earlier question again later? I'm trying to get back to it but we seem to need to take an information sidetrip right now.

Mel: OKEY DOKEY, Toni! Here's more about the Childrens Writer web site:

Toni: Hey great!

Mel: So, Toni, let’s go on with Editor Database 101.

Mel: I'll make sure that URL—and ALL this good info—is in the transcript of this chat.

Toni: FOURTH, ask your SCBWI Regional Advisor if you can borrow and read the regional newsletters, AND read your national SCBWI Bulletin. And you will do all this, in part, in order to build your EDITOR DATABASE. Now, create a database in Excel or some other software. If you don't know how, have a geeky teen—like our son Topher was when he was in Middle School—create one for you.

Mel: HA!

Toni: You will have these columns: EDITOR NAME, EDITOR TITLE, DATE ADDED (OR UPDATED), NOTES (by far the biggest cells!), SOURCE, and PUBLISHER.

Mel: What do you note in NOTES, Toni?

Toni: Mel has noticed that most are self-explanatory. J In the NOTES field, you will make note of any books the editor edited. You can also add his/her comments from articles you've read. You'll read your newsletters and bulletins and listservs and boards. You will pay close attention to what people SAY about editors. You will pay close attention to which editors are at conferences. You will pay close attention to what editors say they want. And you will slowly, slowly, slowly build a database of information about editors, constantly updating it as you encounter new information. You will begin to understand what each individual editor wants and needs. It is an invaluable tool.

Mel: Yes, it has GREAT info! Here are some details we need to answer:

sweet_muse: CBI? Children's Book…?

Toni: Children's Book Insider.

Mel: So your Database really brings you CLOSE UP to editors, WHO they are, WHAT they want, what they have bought?

Toni: Yeperoo!

Mel: What do you do with your database then, once you have it?

Toni: Once you've created it, you use it as a tool each time you are ready to submit a manuscript. Because it's electronic, you can even search it for key phrases like "preschool" or "humor" or "ER."

Mel: Terrifically SPECIFIC, Toni--THANKS!

sk8puss: Is the SCBWI available in Canada?

Mel: Can anyone send us Canada's SCBWI address/URL?

Toni: Yes!

Mel: TERRIFIC!

Mel: You get an A, Toni Buzzeo!

sweet_muse: Were you read to when you were young? I know that if a child grows up around books, it helps enhance their appreciation of them. As a librairian, I bet you saw that a lot.

Toni: Librarian Am I. :-) I was read to often as a child! I even have photos of it. And taken to the library, of course!

tkat_2: What children's author did you like the most as a child?

Toni: Beverly Cleary, Maud Hart Lovelace, and as a teen, Betty Cavanna

Mel: LOTSAloves, it sounds like!

Toni: I was the original book girl!

Toni: craig, hi. I think that I will eventually write for YAs (you're very perceptive :-). I love to read YA and I had a tough adolesence in many ways. But I'm not ready yet. craig, tell me what you mean about "being okay." Financially? Emotionally?

Mel: I'll pass it on as soon as craig lets us know, Toni. Here's someone else who was as pleased to get your info as I was—they also gave you an A and MORE!

sk8puss: An "A" and a big PLUS for you, Toni!

sweet_muse: I subscribe the Children's Writer newsletter that is offered here on this site too! That is helpful to me!

Toni: sweet, that's what I meant when I said subscribe to CW. It's the BEST!

sk8puss: I thought the Yellow Board was at "Write4kids."

Toni: Yellow Board IS at Write4kids! That's the URL I gave, isn't it?

Mel: Yupaloo!

Toni: And Yeperoo! :--)

Mel: Here's a question I’ve wanted to ask myself, Toni. I KNOW you know "how to wear yourself out," but besides that, WHAT is your most important SECRET for all you've accomplished in so short a time? The database, or what?

Toni: The database shortened my time to publication, certainly. The other thing was that I read read read...everything that is published for kids that holds any interest for me. I know the field inside and out. It's essential. If you don't read kids' books, you won't publish them.

Mel: I've heard Jane Yolen say the same, Toni--good company!

Toni: Jane is a friend of mine.

Mel: Here's an echo of my previous question:

Toni: sweet, hmmmm. I could be a children's writer organizational consultant! Have to charge an hourly fee, though! :-)

sweet_muse: I have yet to be published. Can you describe how you were feeling when you first got published?

Toni: ELATED, Sweet! But before that, in the depths of despair.

Mel: Here's a very advanced question:

del: Toni, do you know how the acceptance process works at the PenguinUSA group? Does an editor "fall in love" with a manuscript and then take it to committee? Or take to the publisher? Or?

Mel: GOOD question, del!

Toni: Each editor takes his/her beloved submitted manuscript to his/her boss (publisher or associate publisher). That person says yes or no. If that person is associate publisher, then he/she takes it to the publisher who makes the final decision. No committees that I know of, del.

Mel: EXCELLENT advice!

Toni: craig, how sweet of you to ask that. I'm going through a tough time emotionally right now as I look ahead to leaving. It's a roller coaster, elation at being a FTW, and such sadness at leaving my beloved job and my wonderful community. But financially, sure, I'll be fine. Toph is GRADUATING from college, after all, (can you say, SELF SUPPORTING?) and I make a good salary between my children's books, my professional books, and my speaking.

del: Toni, I know you're an expert on school visits. Would you share your favorite activity you do to engage elementary children? Thanks!

Toni: del, for kindergarten, songs, fingerplays and a flannel board of the story are my biggest success tools. For primary and middle grades students, lots of photos and scans. For Middle School, a wonderful "Author's Career" presentation I've put together. Please consider reading my fabulous book about school visits—Terrific Connections with Authors, Illustrators, and Storytellers (Libraries Unlimited, 1999)

Toni: Yes, you can! And of course, I'd love you to. It is the seminal book on school visits for authors and illustrators, written with my writing pal Jane Kurtz.

Mel: I WILL get it, I assure you—and others will too, I'll bet!

Toni: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1563087448/qid=1081473193/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-3559415-0498363?v=glance&s=books ONLY ONE LEFT IN STOCK!! Gasp! Order soon :-)

Mel: Do you show slides or other audio visuals on your school visits, Toni?

Toni: Yes, Mel, tons of PowerPoint slides and an occasional video.

sweet_muse: You were a librarian. What about that job influenced you TO write?

Toni: I AM a librarian, Sweet. I'll be leaving after 15 years as a school library media specialist in June. I think it's impossible to be a writer AND a children's librarian and not, ultimately, want to combine the two!

Mel: A GREAT insight!

iscribe: Do you have to submit with illustrations? If so, where do you find an illustrator, for picture books?

Toni: Hi, iscribe! No, you actually do NOT want to submit with illustrations if you are just a writer. One's editor searches for the illustrator. So just submit your best writing. For more info on such matters, read these three intro books: How to Write a Children's Book and Get It Published by Barbara Seuling, Complete Idiot's Guide to Publishing Children's Books by Harold D. Underdown and It's a Bunny-Eat-Bunny World: A Writer's Guide to Surviving and Thriving in Today's Competitive Children's Book Market by Olga Litowinsky

dori c: What is the single most important activity in promoting a new book?

Toni: Dori, hi! Whew, hard question! I guess I consider the most important JOB to be "getting the word out." But under that umbrella come several tasks: I definitely send postcards to children's booksellers and Maine and New England booksellers (my region). I also do signings. And I do TONS of school visits. But I'll bet you wanted me to choose!

Mel: How many school visits, say, per month, Toni?

Toni: Let me go call up my website. Be right back!…I'll be doing 12 days of school visits and two days of conference speaking this month.

Mel: WOW! About your new book coming out in May, Little Loon and Papa, how did that come about?

Toni: Well, this is such an unusual story for me! The HISTORY of this story is unusual, I mean.

Mel: How so?

Toni: My editor sent me an e-mail telling me that booksellers wanted Father's Day books and asked whether I had any Father's Day ideas. Nope, sez I. :-) But she asked me to tuck it away and I did. I tucked and I stewed and I worried it to death till dinner time. When Ken got home I told him about the e-mail and that I'd been thinking all day. He mentioned that BIRDS often mate for life and share child care. I wondered about loons—a beloved bird abundant at our cabin on Rangeley Lake in western Maine. I did the research. BINGO! Loon fathers take 50% of the care of the chicks. I was on my way.

Mel: NEAT story in itself, Toni!

Toni: Next, I brainstormed a plot with Topher. We played with ideas for a few hours. Then I did some more research—LOTS (I am, after all, a librarian!) Then I thought about myself and Topher when we were little chicks ourselves and HATED to get our faces wet.

Mel: LOVE it!

Toni: And I wondered what it would be like to HAVE to learn to dive. Voila!

Mel: Do loons actually have to LEARN to dive?

Toni: Yes, they do. Of course, most of it is by WATCHING. But it's similar to other birds learning to fly. And it's hard for them because they are these cute, bouyant little balls of fluff.

Mel: So Little Loon and Papa, coming out in May, is poised just rightly for Father's Day in June!

Toni: Yes, for FATHER'S DAY! I just heard it will be released a bit earlier than expected. Now the date is Monday May 10—Hurrah!

Mel: CONGRATULATIONS, and THANKS, from this father!

Toni: I hope MANY MANY fathers receive this book for Father's Day!

Mel: I'm going to ASK for it! And I'll bet I GET it!

Toni: Well, see, there's ONE sold. :-)

Mel: Did you aim for writing PICTURE BOOKS, period, when you began to write for children?

Toni: No, not at all.

Mel: WHAT?!

Toni: I wrote picture books exclusively for about six months before I began my first novel. I've written two so far, but I'm still revising them. A novel is a LOOOOONG project for me.

Mel: My impression is that picture books are the MOST difficult to sell, and that MOST children's writers would like to, but try selling novels in the meantime, because they are "easier."

Toni: Recently, picture books have been difficult to sell. It wasn't always so. I don't believe novels are any easier to sell, though.

Mel: WHEN were picture books easier to sell, Toni?

Toni: Picture books were an easy (relatively speaking ) sell in the 80's and even early 90's. But I don't see editors snapping UP novels either. They still want something VERY polished and professional and practically ready to go!

Mel: Why is that so now—that they want things VERY polished—though it hasn't always been that way?

Toni: I’m not sure, Mel, but my agent tells me that, particularly for novels submitted by an agent, an editor is looking for PUBLISHABLE work on the spot.

Mel: With all you do as wife and mother and library media specialist, how much time do you get to actually write right now, in your busy days?

Toni: I am very lucky to have FIVE 4- to 5-day writing retreats a year. They nurture me as a writer and I do write ten hours a day at them, so you see that it's how I've continued to produce new work!

Mel: So you go to retreats for yourSELF, not just to speak?

Toni: I go on five retreats a year with other writers to WRITE, yes.

Mel: What are THOSE retreats like, and how can we find them?

Toni: You have to create your own.

Mel: Do you mean arrange to get together with writing friends?

Toni: I gather with from 3 to 8 other children's writers, and either use one writer's home or rent out an entire Bed and Breakfast, and then we WRITE—all day—no talking!—and then critique all evening. Many, many other writers and illustrators do the same. I can't recommend it highly enough!

Mel: By "critique," do you mean read your own work to each other?

Toni: Yes, and respond.

Mel: So then, if I have ONE writing friend (and I THINK I do J ), I can get together and retreat somewhere with them?

Toni: Absolutely. Make a pact with me to DO that this year!

Mel: OK, you've got a pact—and THANKS, Toni!...

kimberly: Do you have an agent?

Toni: Hi kimberly, I sure do. I depend on him to help me to plan my career as well as negotiate my contracts.

Mel: Will he do MORE for you now that you're leaving your media specialist job?

Toni: I'm not sure what more he can do. It's ME who has to do MORE—writing, that is!

Mel: You're RIGHT!

kimberly: How long does it take you to complete a picture book?

Toni: kimberly, it can take from a week to two years! Each one is so different!

momof3: I haven't explored the idea of writing picture books. Please tell me about word count, etc, when thinking about this genre. Thanks.

Toni: Mom, hi. It is so variable, but I can tell you that there is a much stronger preference for shorter picture books these days than 8 1/2 years ago when I started writing them. I have been hovering in the less-than-300-word category in my preschool picture books, Dawdle Duckling, Little Loon and Papa, and Ready or Not, Dawdle Duckling. But then I just submitted a very long picture book, which I sold as my fifth book a month ago. It's entitled A Ledge Light Christmas. But I think that is a very rare occurence.

Mel: Tell us about that one, Toni, and if it relates to your FIRST book, The Sea Chest.

Toni: It's another lighthouse story. I discovered the FLYING SANTA serivce while websufing for marketing opportunities for The Sea Chest.

Mel: Flying Santa Service?

Toni: I was enchanted by these planes that brought presents at Christmas to isolated lighthouse children. When I told my editor about it, more than a year ago, she was, too. She continued to express interest in this story until I finally had an idea that I thought would work, and I have just sold it to her.

Mel: Do CHRISTMAS books have an advantage because there are few, Toni, or a disadvantage because there's only one Christmas a year?

Toni: A definite disadvantage, Mel. But I'm hopeful that the lighthouse and regional ties in this one will offset the downside!

Mel: It sounds like they SHOULD.

ladybird39pm: I have a picture book all ready to go to Print On Demand publishers. Can a book have separate pieces like an added flannelgraph?

Toni: If you wanted to publish something like that in the regualr trade market, ladybird, you'd have to go to a packager. You can check the Children's Writers and Illustrators Market Guide for info on packagers.

Toni: By the way, a SIXTH suggestion I have for building your editor database, is to attend children's writing conferences to MEET and LISTEN TO editors firsthand! Sorry I forgot that earlier.

Mel: THANKS for remembering it!

Toni: Mom, sometimes I do indicate a break with a quadruple spacing, but for the most part I let the illustrator and the designer decide.

kimberly: How does your agent help you plan your career?

Toni: He and I have long talks about submissions and what I should work on next and which revision project should be next on my plate. That sort of thing, kimberly.

iscribe: How many pages/words are EXPECTED in a picture book?

Toni: You mean, what is the least number, iscribe? I have seen picture books with 50! There is no expectation, but a really generous ceiling these days is 1000 words. That's considered LONG.

Mel: Here is a bit of wisdom from sweet_muse about the harder to write/easier to write discussion we had earlier:

sweet_muse: I don't think any work is easy to sell, not particularly. I just do the homework and hope the manuscript is liked.

Mel: One more question, Toni, and it's mine: Tell us, please, if we have an IDEA for a picture book (which I do! (-:}), how should we begin and then proceed, to do it the fastest and bestest?

Toni: There's ONE best suggestion for this. FIND A MODEL! Jane Kurtz taught me this many years ago. Find a book or two that does something like what you want to do and study it for ideas, for format, or language, or structure.

Mel: Toni, you make two hours pass like two minutes, and we really must let you go now. You have been a rich resource for us this evening, sharing your writing beginnings and goings-on with us so generously. I'm thinking there is at least ONE future successful picture book writer here who has received heartful encouragement from you. THANK YOU for all you do that makes it possible to do so much for US!

Mel: Here's an idea from del that I'd like to ask you about now:

del: I'd love to hear Toni do an ICL forum on school visits/promotion, etc. Any chance of that?

Toni: I'd like to talk about that some more! I loved being here with you. Please invite me back sometime!

Mel: Yeperoo, you can COUNT on it, Toni!

Toni: Thanks all!