"Editing and Publishing Beginning Reader Books" with Lynn Salem and Josie Stewart

Mel: is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with Lynn Salem and Josie Stewart, and editor of the ICL web site.

Lynn and Josie: are Lynn Salem and Josie Stewart (when they are answering together, at the same computer). Lynn Salem and Josie Stewart, Reading Specialists, are the founders of Seedling Publications, a niche education publisher they started in 1991, and which publishes beginning reader books. When they recognized the impact that appropriate reading materials had on the success of young readers, they applied their early literacy training to the creation of high quality "little books" that truly support young readers. Their intent was to provide a child-sized book for a child-sized task, one where success was guaranteed. This continues to be Lynn and Josie’s Seedling Publications’ mission. Seedling offers nearly 200 books for early readers, ranging from A BEE'S HOME to ZEEBRAS.

Lynn: is Lynn Salem, who was once a Reading Recovery teacher, whose job it was to help elementary students such as those in Josie Stewart’s first-grade class develop reading skills.

Josie: is Josie Stewart, who was a first-grade teacher into whose classroom Lynn Salem came to work as Reading Recovery teacher helping students improve their reading skills.

Pink shows the user names of the people who are asking questions of Lynn and Josie.

Lynn and Josie: Hello to all the writers of books for beginning readers. It's a challenging area of writing. We're looking forward to visiting with you this evening.

Mel: Tonight we have the rare treat of TWO people to interview, which is why I’ll put each of their replies behind their first names and in a different color on the transcript.

Lynn and Josie: Hello again and thank you for the warm welcome.

Mel: Lynn and Josie, let me ask either or BOTH of you this question. We know that both of you were once elementary teachers. Can you tell us what you taught?

Lynn: I taught 1st - 3rd grade and was a Reading Specialist and REading Recovery Teacher for 10 years. LS

Josie: I taught 1-2 and was also a Reading Specialist with a total of 15 years. j

Mel: Tell us what you observed in your classroom teaching days that led you eventually to your publishing venture.

Lynn: We observed that children need many, many texts to read to get the practice that they need.

Josie: We also observed what can make a reading task more difficult or easy in terms of the text.

Mel: By "many, many," do you mean different KINDS of texts?

Lynn: Yes, we knew that children need to read fiction as well as nonfiction at all levels.

Mel: What, simply, DOES make a child's reading task more difficult or easier?

Josie: The task can be too difficult if too many unfamiliar ideas or concepts are presented, if the language is stilted or controlled and doesn't sound like the spoken word, thus the child cannot rely on his/her oral language as support. It is difficult if there are no "anchor words" that the child knows well to help them through the more challenging parts of the text. It's hard if the child can't get some fluency going. We learned that picture support is crucial too.

Mel: You mentioned to me in practice how you found books from Australia and, I believe, New Zealand, that you felt worked well with your students when you taught reading. Can you tell us about those book?

Lynn: Many of those books are still sold in the U.S. today through Rigby, Wright Group and Richard Owens.

Mel: How did these books differ from other books you were using?

Josie: These were the books that oftentimes weren't as culturally specific to the U.S. as we needed.

Mel: How are your books different from library trade books?

Josie: Our books are used for the child to use to learn how to read, "to cut their teeth on," so to speak.

Lynn: We often think of our books as the step between board books and early chapter books.
Mel: You are an educational niche publisher, am I right? What exactly is an educational niche publisher?

Josie: We feel that we are a niche even within the reading market. As we said, our books are the materials that children use to learn to read, step by step. Each book is to present a new challenge, but just enough of a challenge that the child learns something, but most of all, feels success.

Mel: What would be an example of ONE new challenge that one of Seedling's books might present to a child?

Josie: Just as in any text, the novel feature might be the text style, concept, the vocabulary or any other feature.

scrappytoo: What holds your books apart from others?

Josie: Scrappytoo, we have a real committment to quality art, field testing the text and pictures with children.

Lynn: We both volunteer on a daily basis in a school. It gives us a chance to work with children every day.

Josie: Also, we do not mass produce books, we really take our time with each book that is produced.

Mel: Your volunteering and time-taking are two TERRIFIC ways to learn what works, then produce it, Lynn and Josie! Are there specific themes, stories, or formats that you are looking for in Seedling Books?

Lynn: We are always interested in just plain, good stories. But multi-cultural stories are of great interest. We enjoy nonfiction, but we currently do not have a need for animal books, but other NF topics are fine. We use an 8-, 12-, or 16-page format for most of our books now.

Mel: How many books do you publish a year?

Josie: We publish approximately 30-40 titles per year.

Mel: Do I have to control the vocabulary I use in stories for Seedlings?

Lynn: No, in some ways, it's best not to control the vocabulary. You're more likely to write a story that depends on the child's oral language and that will support the reading.

Mel: You mentioned to me previously that you want books in "natural language." How does that differ from usual "story language," Lynn and Josie?

Josie: Actually we can use submissions with story language as long as it is written for beginning readers. When we say "natural language," we mean that the child can predict what the text might be because it is written the way we talk rather than in a controlled manner. For example a controlled text is written around a phonemic lesson.

paula lesso: Thanks for being here! If you are considering a manuscript, do you field test it with kids BEFORE making a decision?

Lynn: Yes, oftentimes we do. But sometimes, Paula, we just know it is a winner when we read it.

Mel: A question just occurred to me that many have asked in the chat room, editors, and that is, do you have certain diagnostic tools to determine what the reading level or age level is of a certain manuscript?

Lynn: No, true diagnostic tool. But we heavily rely on our knowledge of beginning readers and texts that work with children through University work, specialist training and day in and day out with children.

silverdove: What subjects are you looking for most in young reader books?

Josie: Children love stories with humor and stories that they can relate to. We have had great success with these types of stories.

silverdove: Do you use rhyme stories?

Lynn: Silverdove, great question. We generally don't use rhymed text because the text often has to be forced for it to rhyme. It's great for read-aloud and opportunities for children to hear rhythm, but not always easy for beg. readers to read independently.

paula lesso: Is "patterned text" classified more as story language?

Josie: That is a tough question, Paula. We accept patterned text but only if the story has a twist or suprise element, as oftentimes patterned text can be just a list of events rather than a story.

Mel: I want to interject here that we have TWO VERY TALENTED editors with us tonight because they are BOTH using ONE computer to reply to our questions. BRAVA, Josie and Lynn!
lizr: You mentioned that you publish 30 to 40 titles a year. Also, do you market those to schools and preschools?

Lynn: LizR, our books are sold to schools, Pre-K through elementary, public libraries, home and school parents, as well as to individuals. Our parent company is Continental Press in Elizabethtown, PA, and they market through catalogs, conferences, web sales and sales representatives across the nation. We are always proud to say that our books are sold around the world, as the Department of Defense purchases the books for the base schools.

dolly: I presume, then, that you accept ( consider ) humorous, but not humorous rhyming stories.

Josie: Yes, that is accurate. We really do enjoy publishing stories with humor for children but the rhyming most often makes a story too difficult.

tigger_energy: What kind of stories do you see too much of?

Lynn: Hi, tigger. We see many stories that have been overdone in the market, like having a new baby in the house and not a surprise ending or twist to that event.

tigger_energy: Is there any particular SPECIFIC SUBJECT you would like to see submissions for?

Lynn: Teachers are always looking for books that fit curriculum. Sometimes we study the course of study for the Kindergarten or first grade from different states, looking for commonalities of topics that teachers need to explore with their students during the year.

Mel: How do you decide which topics to write yourselves and which stories to accept from outside authors?

Josie: We are thrilled to publish and work with other authors, and when a submission is received that really works, we celebrate and publish it! Sometimes we have topics or themes that we want to explore ourselves because of a passion or it is a topic we have been playing with for a long time. For example our Nursery Rhyme series.

Mel: We are familiar with OH, NO, SHERMAN! from talking with Betty Erickson two weeks ago. WHAT are some things about that book of Betty's that make it really work?

Lynn: That book has been a hit since day one! Thank you, Betty! It has it all, crisp writing, an endearing character, an exaggerated humorous event, a "hero" in both Brad and Sherman and the perfect illustrations.

barbk: Do you plan to continue writing some of the books yourselves, or will outside submissions "take over"?

Josie: Barbk, we love to write, but the product line has to be balanced and for that to happen children must have the opportunity to read stories from many authors. And that is where all of you come in.

cup: How many copies do you make in a first printing?

Lynn: That is a decision that is made at Continental Press.

Mel: Is there a RANGE that Continental might decide between for a first printing?

Josie: We can tell you that before we became part of Continental Press, we printed 5,000 copies on a first run.

Lynn: For publishers, it's often an issue of storage, tax liabilites, etc. So publishers do different amounts for different reasons.

paula lesso: I've heard your books stay in print a long long time due to the consistent demand for that quality.

Lynn: So far, every title is still on the list. Thanks to our wonderful customers.

Mel: KUDOS for Seedling's books!

silverdove: I know about Hi-lo books, but are there books for younger children who are ahead with reading skills?

Josie: That is a great question--oftentimes a really advanced reader could "read higher levels" but may not be ready for the content or topic. The beauty of the books that we produce is that there is a wide range of levels. Also, nonfiction can help fill the need for these advanced readers.

Mel: Do you publish more fiction than nonfiction? Could you give approximate percentages of F and NF?

Lynn: It's about equal right now and we'll probably keep that percentage going.

nance: Do you accept photo essays?

Lynn: Yes, we are exploring some right now. It generally means buying photos from stock photo companies, which is wonderful, but it's finding the exactly right photo, nance.

lisawrites4kids: Do you publish concept books?

Josie: We have not published many concept books. Usually the concept book submissions that we receive are better suited for board books.

tigger_energy: Your guidelines say 8, 12, or 16 pages, what is considered a page?

Lynn: The title page will not contain any text. The other pages will be part of the story. When you try a manuscript out in the 8, 12, or 16 format, you get a better sense of where the surprises need to be (turn of the pages) and the timing and how the pictures will need to work. These things are crucial to beginning reader books.

barbk: Do you consider fantasy stories (e.g. humorous monsters)?

Josie: That topic or type of story is unlikely to fit into the reading level we look for. It is really important to research what each publisher is looking for or has published in the past. Good question, barbk.

del: How many stories may we submit at a time?

Lynn: Del, as many as you think are ready for prime time, you are welcome to submit. We highly recommend trying them out with children before you send them to any publisher. It's expensive and time-consuming for authors to send manuscripts to publishers who can't use their work.

lisawrites4kids: Do you accept e-submissions or queries?

Josie: We do not accept queries, since the text that we publish is short. We are hesitating on saying that we accept e-mail submissions as we are protective of our time to review your manuscript properly. E-mail sometimes is too quick. We did learn from New York editors not to give editors a task

Lynn: We don't mind responding via e-mail to a manuscript that we received in the mail.

Mel: When you say "New York editors," did you submit book ideas to them at one time--or do you still?

Josie: No we attend writers workshops too.

Lynn: We had the wonderful opportunity to hear some New York editors a few times.

Josie: We do not submit to other publishers as our energies are focused on the Seedling line.

silverdove: Where/how can I get the curriculum information I might need to write a manuscript suitable for Seedling?

Lynn: Most all states have a website with model curriculums by grade level.

Josie: But remember, not all of our stories are tied to curriculum.

del: Could you take us through your process of selecting manuscripts for publishing?

Lynn: Del, We each read the manuscript independently. Then we read it together and share our thoughts. We read it out loud over and over as well. We try to paginate the manuscript. We try it with students if we're interested, and just about anyone else that will listen. We think about the pictures. If it looks like it's working we'll ask for the story to be mocked up as a book. Page turns often are an integral part of making the story work. Then we start reading it over and over again. If all goes well, you are offered a contract.

del: THANKS! :)

nance: Would checking the National Curriculum guidelines be appropiate, or do you look specifically at a certain state's guidelines?

Josie: We think that looking at the National Curriculum could be very helpful. We get a lot of information from the teachers we interact with at conferences. Kid watching is helpful too!

Lizr: Just wanted to say that I really learned a lot more about your guidelines from the form letter I received from a submission. Thanks for being so thorough on it!

barbk: How many submissions do you receive in a typical month?

Lynn: Barbk, we receive about 15-20 submissions in a week. Many are totally unusable - cookbooks, novels, etc. We just want to encourage authors to do your homework before you submit.

Josie: Sometimes we hold a manuscript for a long time before accepting it. Sometimes, we cannot use a manuscript simply because it is not a topic we are working on, or we already have a story that is similar. So there are many reasons that a publisher might choose a story or return your submission.

halnic: What do you see in a story that sparks your interest?

Josie: We see a unique storyline or treatment of a common topic. We see a story that can be complemented with pictures and has audience appeal.
Lynn: One of the unique things about beginning readers books is that teachers are purchasing with a purpose in mind, but the children are the true consumers. It's a fine line to walk.

silverdove: What's the normal time line on the process of acceptance, from receiving a manuscript to contract?

Josie: First we contact the author and then a contract is sent out immediately. Next, the book goes into production. It can take up to a year to get a book into print.

foxey: Should the author prepare activities for each story?

Josie: Foxey, you must be familiar with our books! No, that is not necessary but your input is welcomed. For those of you who may not know, Foxey is referring to the activities that we list on the inside back cover of our books--ideas for teachers and parents to extend the book with the reader.

paula lesso: When writing for emergent/early readers, I don't have a cultural prefernce in mind - like to leave it open. How do you choose when you work with the illustrator? I know you try hard to balance the list, which I respect greatly.

Lynn: Paula, You are very observant. We want to honor all children and ethnicities and do that often through the art.

Josie: We are welcoming stories that actually teach about different cultures too.

scrappytoo: Do you find that the topics change from year to year?

Lynn: Scrappytoo, the topics do not seem to change, but our needs as a publisher might change, due to submissions or a theme that we might be considering.

silverdove: Do you ever request submissions from previous authors that you have published?

Josie: Silverdove, yes, in fact, we just requested that Betty Erickson write another Sherman story and she did! She has a new Sherman story due out in the next catalog.

foxey: How do both of you find time to write so many books?

Lynn: Now that writing, publishing, and editing are our full-time jobs, WE HAVE TO, but, honestly, time is always a factor. Sometimes, it's time for our own personal reading that suffers.

Mel: How DO the two of you write together? What is your writing process?
Josie: Usually one of us has an idea, then the other person runs with it! In the end, we don't remember who contributed what to the story. Funny, the voice of the story is usually our combined voice. Somehow it works for us. But prior to this, as teachers we wrote grants and curriculum together as well as other projects.

Mel: Are you TWINEDITORS? (-:} What is your review process again?

Lynn: Yes, we work in tandem on each step of the process. We can finish each other's sentences.

foxey: Do you have a stable of illustrators?

Josie: Yes, we do have our favorites but we are always welcoming new illustrators to the line as well. In fact, we run a contest with our local college of art and design and often offer a student a contract. This works great for all of us!

nance: Can we submit our own photos as would a picture book illustrator?

Lynn: Yes, you may submit photos that are high enough in resolution to work in a printed piece, or if you intend for them to be references for the artist.

writerx: Do you work with new writers if the concept is good, but the format needs work?

Josie: Sure, that is part of our job as an editor and a lot of fun to work with a writer who is willing to rework the manuscript.

tigger_energy: Do all the pages need to have an equal number of sentences?

Lynn: No, that is not necessary. The key is to make the book work. We have some books with text on the left-side page and the illustration on the right. Just a few books are like that, but anything is possible if it works to be a good beginning reader book.

Mel: Lynn and Josie, I've been listening with fascination to your explanations of what you do and how you do it. I've been so fascinated that I've forgotten the time. You two and Betty Erickson have opened up to us a wide, wide world of children's books that few of us really know and understand, early readers. I would like very much to have you come back sometime, and tell us more about what you've really only had time to begin this evening. THANK YOU so MUCH, both of you, for all you've shared with us. I have much admired your ability to work together, and your turn-taking in the session this evening really showed us why you work so well together.

Lynn and Josie: Thank you for inviting us. It's been our pleasure to be part of the Institute tonight. Good luck to all the writers out there, and a special hello to Betty.

Mel: I hope you all can come back to our chat room two weeks from tonight, May 1, when our guest will be Harold Underdown, the creator and editor of The Purple Crayon Web Site. As a children's book editor, Harold has helped many writers in publishing, and his web site is chock-full of resources for children's writers. Kristi Holl will be our Guest Moderator two weeks from tonight, May 1, when Harold Underdown comes to talk with us knowledgeably about the present and future of children's books. So please plan to join Harold Underdown and Kristi Holl on May Day!

Mel: And THANKS again and more, Lynn Salem and Josie Stewart, for illuminating for us tonight what seems to be one of the newest frontiers of children's books, books for beginning readers. We wish you WELL in Seedling Publications’ future book publishing!