Instititute of Children's Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"Transforming Real Life into Commerical Fiction" with Stephen Roos

Thursday, December 7, 2000

Moderator is Kristi Holl, Web Editor for The Institute of Children's Literature. Kristi is the author of 24 middle grade novels, more than l00 short stories and articles for adults and children. She also taught for The Institute for l5 years before becoming the site's Web Editor.

Stephen is Stephen Roos, who worked at Harper & Row (now HarperCollins) for l3 years in publicity and promotion. Author of 25 middle-grade and young adult books himself, he knows publishing from BOTH sides of the desk. Stephen has turned funny (I hate baseball!) and not-so-funny (alcoholic family system) life situations into fiction (My Horrible Secret and You'll Miss Me When I'm Gone).

Names highlighted in blue are viewers who had questions.

Scheduled Event interviews on Thursday nights begin promptly at 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening! I'm glad you could be here this evening for our interview with Stephen Roos on the subject of "Transforming Real Life into Commercial Fiction." I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator this evening and the web editor for this site. Stephen worked at Harper & Row (now HarperCollins) for l3 years in publicity and promotion and is the author of 25 middle-grade and young adult books himself. Stephen says fiction enables you to explore truths you could never find in nonfiction, and that's the subject of tonight's interview. Welcome, Steve!

Stephen: Hi! I'm glad to be here!

Moderator: Steve, we're talking tonight about turning your life into publishable fiction. You have an unusual background. Can you tell us about your earliest experience in this type of autobiographical writing?

Stephen: From the beginning, I was nine or ten so it was practically the beginning, I've known writing was to some degree autobiographical. My parents wrote mysteries, and they were always looking for clues to use in their stories. It was summer, we were driving up to Martha's Vineyard, and at the end of the day my dad (who wrote mysteries) had one very sunburned arm (which had been hanging out the window) and one very pale arm (which had been inside). Sure enough, it became a major "lead" for the detective who was solving the case in the story they were working on at the time. Nothing too personal, certainly nothing serious, just fun. But it was my first lesson in autobiographical writing.

Moderator: Did anything else influence you to use true experiences in your writing?

Stephen: When I was a senior in high school, I read Maugham's OF HUMAN BONDAGE. I was enormously moved by Philip Carey's anxiety about his deformed foot. I'd had trouble with a birth injury to one of my own legs, and was totally amazed that there was someone in the world who knew just how I felt. I assumed, of course, that Maugham had a deformed foot just like his protagonist. How else could he know the feelings so well? I was fascinated to learn that Maugham had no problems at all with his legs. In real life, he had a stutter. He had turned the real-life stutter into a fictional foot problem.

Moderator: Why not keep it a stutter?

Stephen: Because Maugham could write more truthfully if he fictionalized the infirmity, Mr. Brown, my English teacher explained. It makes sense. A friend asks me what I'm feeling. Well, yes, I want to tell the truth, but I also want to make sure that my friend still likes me when I've answered. I want my friend to think my feelings are all very rational too. I find I have an investment in thinking my feelings are "right" -- whatever that means. So the answer I give my friend may not be all that true, after all.

Moderator: Is this where the fictionalizing comes in then?

Stephen: Yes. When I write stories about someone who's like me but not me, I'm liberated from the urge to be liked, the need to make sense, to come across as a rational human being. When I tried to write a story about a kid with a problem leg just like mine, I couldn't get anywhere. The writing was flat, dead. When I transformed my leg into my child character's deformed hand, it worked. Maugham knew what he was doing. The more fictionalized my stories become, the truer they become. (And how many times I've set out, basing a story on someone else's experiences, only to find at the end I was writing about me all the time!) It's a little disconcerting at times, I'll admit. But it's what makes writing such an exciting, vital occupation!

Moderator: Now for some "nuts and bolts." How do you start to turn real life experiences into fiction? Do you have any specific steps you use to help "loosen you up" from the reality?

Stephen: I start by thinking about what problems, what issues, are important to me in my current adult life, then remember how I handled that issue when I was a kid. That helps get me going.

Moderator: What specific elements do you change?

Stephen: I start by changing the place. That's what starts to free me up from my self-consciousness. I also like to change the general people milieu. For instance, I like to make my real rich people into poorer fictional people. And poor real people into rich fictional ones.

Nancy: How do you hide your characters and events enough to keep from offending the living "weird" family that it's about?

Stephen: Well, I change the names, of course. And I also change their appearance and very often I change their roles. For instance, in my next novel, my father appears as an uncle.

Moderator: Is there anything you never change?

Stephen: I never change the age of the point of view character who is of course me. But I have changed my sex on occasion.

Moderator: How far can you go from the reality? Do you ever let go of it completely?

Stephen: After a while, let's say the first draft if it's going well, I start to let go more and more. Again, if it's going well, the story takes on a life of its own. I think of my characters as real people, not people from my past.

Kevin: How do you realistically write from a girl's viewpoint? I can't seem to do it believably.

Stephen: I'm not sure that my most realistic fiction has been from a girl's point of view. I used girl characters' points of view in my more satirical, more humorous early stuff. I thought fifth grade girls were just more observant than their boy counterparts. Is that sexist?

Moderator: No, just fact! :)

shanniebee: Have you found that by writing about painful experiences you go through a catharsis of sorts?

Stephen: Yes, it is a catharsis. Absolutely. I used to be a little uncomfortable about writing as therapy, but that's how it has turned out for me, alas. The challenge is that books have to be entertaining to other people and therapy usually isn't.

Kathleen: How can you bring up "life experiences," then expand on them to bring more interest, without undermining the core truth of the situation?

Stephen: Good question, and a hard one! What I do, Kathleen, is to add foibles to my point of view character. For instance, I made the "me" character the snoop in one story. Fact is, I was just very nosy. Not a snoop. I have to be careful not to let my "me character" get self-pitying. It's a real turn off for readers.

shanniebee: What other real life experiences have influenced your writing?

Stephen: My first story was based on my terror of baseballs, throwing and catching. That was a funny story. But more serious ones have come from my parents' decision to live abroad while I stayed here and went to boarding school. Also as an adult, I had a drinking problem, and I used that in a kids' story.

Moderator: Does the fictionalizing happen more and more with each revision, or is it something planned right in the original outline?

Stephen: It happens more and more with every revision. I can't force it too much. It just doesn't work. I have to give it a lot of time, alas.

Moderator: How do you ensure, when writing about your adult experiences, that it's still for kids?

Stephen: By writing -- always -- from the point of view of a kid!

Moderator: What about handling adult subject matter, like the drinking?

Stephen: Well, that was tough. But I created a kid, who was very much like me when I was 16, and gave him a drinking problem. I learned a great deal about teenagers with drinking problems, met quite few who were in recovery and then imagined how a 16-year-old would have drunk.

JAMES55CLINTON: Do you prefer to write what you really did and said or what you wish you did or said?

Stephen: I do both. I lot of my "wish I'd said that's" are about how right I was and how wrong everyone else was and when I see it on the page it's so transparent that I'm embarrassed and make sure no one ever sees it. But I do need to do that once, it seems. It's part of the process.

Mom of 3: When you fictionalize a real life experience, does it get labeled fiction, or nonfiction?

Stephen: It's labeled as fiction. Definitely!

KathleenMarie: How do you keep the humor in your writing and keep the reader's interest?

Stephen: Well, there are some things that just aren't funny and never will be. I just finished a story for Simon & Schuster that I thought was going to a laff-riot! But it touched on something sad and personal in me and I had to make it a sad story. Best I could do was to open it with some funny scenes and keep some nice, funny supporting characters going through it.

roxkeys: Do any of your friends or relatives realize the things in your stories are about you?

Stephen: Yes, they do. When they recognize a character, it's always not them. People! Go figure!

Mom of 3: How would you change a 'real' episode, like your child breaking his arm, into a story?

Stephen: Well, I might have him break some other part of his body. Or I might keep the arm, but I'd change the character.

Mary E Ross: I have scoliosis and I've often tried to write about it. My question is, how serious do I make it? i.e.: I never had to have the operation to straighten it, but I did wear a full body brace for a year and a half.

Stephen: That's a serious problem. I've heard recovery takes a long time but what I'd do is make sure the "you" character isn't just a back problem with a person attached to it. I'd make sure there's a whole lot else happening with my main character. You have to be careful not to let it become the disease of the week.

shanniebee: My sister is manic/depressive and it really has affected her children. I'd like to write a story from their point of view since they lived with me for 2 years. How do I find out if there are other books that might be about that?

Stephen: If you live near a good public library, the children's librarian can help you there. Or you might call the Children's Book Council in NYC and ask about recent titles in that area. It's a great topic. I think a lot of kids would identify and be helped to know they are not alone.

Readwrite55: Do you always have to change the real episode?

Stephen: No, I don't have to. I just feel that most authors are a lot less self-conscious, feel a lot freer, if they do make some alterations!

Breazenda: If I am writing nonfiction and I embellish it a touch, does that make it fiction?

Stephen: Just a touch? If it's just a touch, I'd say it's nonfiction. But be prepared to assure editors and future readers it was just a touch.

Mary E Ross: How does your readership take to the "sad" stories like the one you mentioned?

Stephen: I think that readers like emotional stories. I think sad is okay. I think depressing isn't. I found that out with my alcoholic novel which is very depressing alas. Didn't sell very well at all.

Kathleen: There are some parents and teachers who are either 'old fashioned' or not liberal enough to have children read about some life experiences which they may think is too serious subject matter. How can you educate the YA readers on life experiences without the teachers or parents preventing these books from being purchased or brought into schools?

Stephen: Great question, and an important one. I'm okay with cutting swear words from my stories so far. I don't think I need anything graphically sexual but I know other writers need to use swear words, etc. I think the joy of books is that not every book is for every person. It's more individual. I think that librarians by and large are a very hip group. It's the parents! And I don't know how to change their minds. I just think it's important for us not to disappear.

Moderator: What's the most painful experience you've used in your fiction?

Stephen: I think the most painful was this year when I wrote about a kid who found himself on his own and moved in on the richest folks in town. I thought I was about to create the hilarious, funny Huck Finn kid. But the kid's situation brought out all my abandonment stuff and I was totally unprepared for that. I mean, I am over 40! But I persevered and I'm glad I did. But I'm glad it's over. Ouch!

Moderator: What was the funniest?

Stephen: What still makes me giggle is Shirley Garfield's obsession with clothes and getting the stripes on her bedspread just so. What a miserable fuss-budget I was. But of course I'm not like that any more. I'm perfectly normal now! Ha ha!

Kathleen: How can you turn an adverse experience into a funny situation without losing the meaning behind the lesson of that particular experience?

Stephen: Some situations can't be made funny. I think you need to honor that in your writing but you might lighten the tone with a light -- if not funny -- subplot!

Moderator: What was the most embarrassing incident you've used in your fiction?

Stephen: The whole throwing a baseball thing. Not just that I screamed every time I saw a baseball, but that I still cared so much about it. I got to a school in Arkansas once and all the kids had make-believe casts just like my main character did! I laughed but I winced too!

Moderator: What was the most surprising?

Stephen: What's most surprising is that time after time the "truth" as I saw it changes. What I started with is not the "truth" I see at the end. A lot of forgiveness goes on, and that's still surprises me.

Mary E Ross: Do you put a moral into your stories when dealing with life situations whether they be hard or funny?

Stephen: I try to be really subtle when it comes to moralizing. I do like stories that teach some kind of lesson. But it can't be tacked on. It just has to be there.

shanniebee: I've always been quite overweight, so a few years ago I thought I'd write "Fat is:" from my point of view. Everyone I showed it to thought it was hilarious. But I never sent it anywhere because when I read it later, it made me kind of sad. Have you ever gotten that far and then it was too painful to send in?

Stephen: When you can send it off, I hope you will. I'm sure a lot of kids are going to identify and it could really make you feel wonderful because you shared your sadness. But yes, I have paused to catch up on my feelings, to get comfortable, before sending something off. You have to take care of that inner child. Maybe it's corny but it's true.

lovemyboys: Something happened to me a few years ago, and I really want to write about it, but most would think I'm a raving lunatic! How would I get them to believe my story?

Stephen: If you believe your story, others will believe it too. Why not make your point of view child someone who isn't at all gullible, makes a big point of it, is even famous locally for being tough-minded? Then have her or him have something incredible happen. If your POV character believes it, so will your reader, I bet!

shanniebee: What age group do you think is too young to write about sexual abuse?

Stephen: I think it's how you write it. It's such an important subject and kids really do need to be educated. It's something you might want to consult a child psychologist about to see what kind of approach would be most effective, most helpful.

Moderator: For your more literary stories, so you draw mostly on your own experiences?

Stephen: Yes, I do. I've written a lot of different kinds of things over the years, but from now on, I want to write about things that are deeply meaningful to me. And that means bringing my own self, ego, whatever, to it more.

Moderator: How do you transform personal experience into more commercial fiction -- such as the stories you wrote for R.L. Stine's Ghosts of Fear Street series?

Stephen: Good question. I recalled the neighborhood I lived in when I was 10. I remembered all the local characters and places we thought were spooky, and I built on that. If you have ever been ten years old, you know it doesn't take much to get that scary imagination going!

Moderator: Are there some experiences you think it's better to not touch?

Stephen: I think there are times when one is better off avoiding remembering, or recreating some experiences. But when it's time, you'll know. But per se, I don't think there are any experiences that should be ignored. If it happens to a child, why not put it in a child's book?

Moderator: You have mentioned to me that you felt a key element in selling your fiction was in finding your unique voice to tell your stories. Can you talk about that?

Stephen: Sure. I like to meet new people when I read a book. I like to make a connection and someone who's a little different always stands out to me. As I develop my point of view character, I just naturally develop a voice. I may find after I've finished the first draft that the voice needs to be revised. Maybe it's too dour or too silly or too vague! I change that in the revision.

Moderator: So we need to study our own voices to see who we really are?

Stephen: Do it obliquely, I say. Remember we're writing fiction. Create a fascinating, sympathetic point of view character, and I bet you'll see yourself in him or her. You created it. Doesn't it have to be some aspect of you?

Mary E Ross: Does a writer's voice remain basically the same throughout all the books that writer writes, or does the voice change from story to story? If it does change, does this hurt the readership factor?

Stephen: Some writers sustain the same voice book after book. That's often true in mystery series, I think, but my own voice has changed a lot. I've gone from sit-com type voice to something much deeper, I think.

Moderator: How do you identify a voice?

Stephen: By the way I identify a friend's personality. I'd say: is it warm, is it personal, is it a bit manipulative, or full of denial? I don't have to like the voice in the sense that I admire it, but I have to be drawn to it.

Moderator: Why is a voice important in the first place?

Stephen: It's the voice that distinguishes your novel. It's what makes it different from the others on the market. It's what makes people want to buy the story, frankly. What would a Harry Potter read like without Harry Potter?

Moderator: What can we do to help it grow and develop?

Stephen: I got into trouble in the early 90s because I didn't recognize that I'd done all I could with the voice I started out with. I wanted to write light comedy the rest of my life. I was afraid to move into something more serious. So my motto is work through your fears. Don't be afraid to grow. Oh, sure. Lots of writers write light for middle-graders and very serious for older readers. Remember a voice isn't your whole personality. It's just an aspect of your personality.

Moderator: Can you have more than one voice? Do you have a different voice for each character?

Stephen: I think one voice to a book is enough, even if there are 1000 characters. Yes, the characters are all different, but they are all experienced through the eyes and ears of your point of view character.

Moderator: Editors are always looking for "new voices." What does that mean?

Stephen: To me, that means people who are writing about things that no one ever wrote about before, or seeing things in ways no one saw before. Until thirty years ago, no one ever had sex in a YA novel. There were hardly any black people. No gay people. Everyone was white and sane and thin and middle class and no one had serious emotional damage. There's always new stuff around, new stuff happening. Don't be afraid to let it happen in kids' books!

Moderator: Should you ever try to study and imitate another writer's voice?

Stephen: How can a newcomer avoid it? I loved reading Marjorie Weinman Sharmat and I'm sure My Horrible Secret sounds like her. You've got to start somewhere! Just make sure you imitate someone worth imitating!

kmadsen: Do you find it more natural to write in first person or third person?

Stephen: I used to like first. Now I prefer third. I can "get around" better in it, I feel.

shanniebee: Most of my friends think I'm really funny, but most of the time what I write tends towards the serious. Is that unusual?

Stephen: I don't think so. Very funny people are often serious, I find!

Breazenda: I believe writing is a very therapeutic experience. Is this an all right way to view my desire to write?

Stephen: Sure, it's okay. Just make sure that it doesn't read like therapy. If you want a sale, there's going to have to be a high entertainment quotient.

Cece: Is the YA novel market waxing or waning?

Stephen: My editor at Simon & Schuster says it's coming back, but gingerly. But with very few exceptions, the protagonists are 16 and under.

Breazenda: I like to write and never go back and edit. Is this a foolish point of view?

Stephen: It makes me sad. You really need to be your own first editor these days. It's not like the old days when an editor would take some raw talent and put it all together. Take the time to edit, to learn to edit, to get advice from people you admire. It will pay off.

shanniebee: What are some of your favorite books on writing?

Stephen: I love books on usage the most. Strunk and White. William Zinsner. Does anyone still read Bergen Evans? They make me so sensitive to the power of each individual word! They teach me to respect my tools!

Moderator: I'm sorry to interrupt right now, but we're out of time! Thank you, Steve, so very much for joining us and sharing your insights into turning our life events into stories that can touch others. We really appreciate you coming tonight!

Stephen: It was great to be here. I'm a little hoarse frankly!

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks on December 21 when we are planning an informal Open Forum with author Karen Hammond, who's been successful in writing adult fiction, nonfiction, and poetry. Many of you have inquired about "crossing over" to writing for adults, how to do it, how the pay scales differ, what topics and areas might be easiest to break into--or even if adult writing is something you'd like to try! So come back in two weeks to ask these questions--and more--when Karen Hammond discusses "Have You Considered Writing for Adults?" In the meantime, have a great weekend! And good night!

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