“What the Editor Wants and How the Writer Can Provide It” with Karen Orfitelli                                  

Thursday, July 1, 2004

Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with Karen Orfitelli and web editor of the ICL site.

Karen is Karen Orfitelli, a children’s writer, editor and instructor.  Karen has been an editor for McGraw-Hill Publishers, where she created and edited educational materials for both children and adults.  As a published author she has written her way into over a hundred publications.  Karen was first published in 1992, and since then has placed her byline in Focus on the Family, Brio, Writer’s Digest, Teen, The Plain Truth, Clarity, Vietnam and Guideposts.  Karen also reviewed children’s books for many years for The Christian Library Journal and Librarian’s World.  Author Karen Orfitelli also has received many awards, including the Guideposts Writers Workshop Contest in 1994.  She was the first-place winner in the Great New England Coast Essay contest of 1996. 

Green shows the user names of the people and their questions asked of Cheryl.

 

Mel: Welcome to the ICL Chat Room! When I first invited Karen Orfitelli to our chat room, I found her very willing to come, but with all of her school, teaching, writing and editing duties, it took a while to work us into her schedule. I'm really glad that we were able to because Karen is well worth waiting for. She not only has immense knowledge and experience in both writing and editing, but is such an able instructor and comfortable with questions and discussion. Karen, it's taken a while to get you here to our chat room, but at last the time has arrived. THANK YOU for coming, and a WARM welcome—to suit this first July evening—to you!    

Karen: Good evening!    

Mel: Karen, have you ALWAYS written, even as a child growing up?  

Karen: That's a great question, Mel. The truth is, I haven't always had my sights set on publication. However, as a young child I found it easier to express myself in writing than in speaking.  

Mel: When did you start writing with the intent to publish, then?    

Karen: I didn't start to write for publication until the very early 1990s. One day I came home from vacation and was literally knee-deep in laundry when I "got the call!" I knew that I had to begin writing, but my big question was when? I had a growing family and a full-time teaching job. The only time I could write and still keep up with everything that I needed to was from 4-5 a.m. So, that's what I did for the next 5 years. I got up at 4:00 every morning and wrote before I went to school and before I woke up my kids for their day!   

Mel: And was you family supportive of your writing efforts, since they must have impacted all of them?   

Karen: My family was very supportive of my efforts. My husband kept my computer up and running and, for a long time, my kids didn't even know I was writing, that is, until my work began to appear in print. Then, they were alternately thrilled and embarrassed! I had to promise I wouldn't use "real" names in my nonfiction articles!  

Mel: Ha! I KNOW what you mean! I know you have two daughters. Is either of them--or your grands--in writing in any way?  

Karen: Yes, Mel. As a matter of fact, my granddaughter carries around a pad and pen with her all of the time in case she gets an idea for a story. She's nine and I expect great things from her someday!

Mel: We'll be looking for her byline! Karen, how does a non-published writer break into the publication?

Karen: That's a good question. My advice to a non-published writer is to hone the craft of writing every single day by spending even 15-30 minutes a day writing. Then, target a magazine and study that magazine until you know what they are publishing and see if your article/story "fits." If not, revise the story/article or target another magazine. My advice is to always start with publications that are friendly to new writers, like Sunday School take home papers or non-glossies. They are much easier to break into and many times, editors are looking for pieces to publish. When new writers target magazines like American Girl or Seventeen--tough markets to crack—they sort of set themselves up for rejection. I know a writer who has published more than a dozen books, but yet, can't crack the Seventeen market!

Mel: Would you be able to give us a specific example of a publication that is friendly to new writers, please?

Karen: Sure! One of the first places I was published was The Wesleyan Advocate—

the take home paper from the Wesleyan church. Also, the Nazarene denominational publications are very friendly to new writers. Another avenue for new writers to be published is local, regional, and national writing contests. They have great prizes including your piece in print!

Mel: What can I do to appear professional when I'm just beginning?

Karen: That's a great question. When I first began to write, I asked my mentor the same thing. Her advice to me was to invest in good stationary and study the format for manuscripts and cover letters. Don't do anything "cutesy"—like hot pink paper or perfumed paper. Editors will notice those things, but not in a good way. Also, double- and triple-check your manuscript for typos.

Mel: Karen, here's a question I'm not sure of the meaning of. Perhaps you will, or we can ask the asker for more info:

cup: Please explain what an arc is.

Karen: Hm...I'm not sure. Does the question mean a short story arc—the diagram of how a short story should be written?

cup: I hear this term from other writers. They talk about the arc; it sounds like it might be a high and then low point. What they are talking about?

Karen: If it is a short story arc, here's what I think it is. In the beginning of a short story, it is essential to present readers with the conflict, the characters and the setting. Then, after this exposition, the story must build in tension and complication—heading toward the climax of the story (the top of the arc?). Then, at the climax, the story question (conflict) is resolved and the ending must take place quickly. If this were shown as a diagram, it would be a triangle with a long side (the exposition and the complications) and a point (the climax) and then, a short side that shows the conclusion.

Mel: You're right on the money, Karen! I recall now hearing discussion a long time ago about that on the childrens-writer discussion boards!

cup: Thanks, Karen.

gladys1: Have you heard about PublishAmerica in Frederick, MD?

Karen: Hi gladys1! Nice to have you here. I don't know about PublishAmerica. What is it?

gladys1: PublishAmerica is a publishing house that asked for a manuscript of mine after I sent them an e-mail query.

Karen: Great, gladys! I'm not familiar with them. Just make sure, however, that they aren't a vanity house. That is, a publisher who expects you to pay for part or all of the publication and marketing expenses. Remember, gladys, whenever you write for publication, you should be getting paid—not paying anyone to publish your work. There are a number of vanity publishers who will publish your work, but you pay all the expenses!

beaauthor: Should your stationary have your name printed on it?

Karen: Greetings beaauthor! Yes, absolutely! Have your name, address and telephone number and e-mail adress on the top. Also, make certain that your envelope is printed as well. The mark of an amateur would be a hand-addressed envelope. As a matter of fact, one time I wrote out an envelope by hand and, when my piece got rejected, the envelope was stamped "use a typed label!" That only happened once but it made an impression on me! Fortunately, I've forgotten the name of the publication!

Mel: Good selective forgettery, Karen! J What if I don't have time for research in nonfiction?

Karen: I think that time is one of the biggest elements that a writer has to face. Most of us have families, jobs, and at least 50 other things happening in our lives. When I began to write, I didn't have time to research so I wrote about what I knew. I wrote about the classroom ideas that I had that worked well and sent those to educational magazines. I wrote a lot about spiritual lessons that God showed me as I experienced different stages with my kids (at home and in school). As a matter of fact, I didn't have an Internet connection for several years and I just didn't have time to go to the library, so I simply wrote about what I knew—kids, home, spiritual lessons. For instance, when we went to the beach and I saw kids who were having a miserable time, I asked myself "Why?” Then, I went home and wrote a piece, "Ten Tips for Taking Toddlers to the Beach." I think I sold that little piece 3 or 4 times. Mostly, it is just keeping your eyes open for ideas—and success in your life.

Mel: You have been a classroom teacher, haven't you? Can you tell us about that?

Karen: I surely have been a classroom teacher! I taught middle school for nearly 15 years. As you can imagine, my middle school students gave me tons of ideas to write about. Interestingly, however, I found myself writing a lot for the parents of middle-school students! How-to articles have always been big, how to get kids to do homework, how to communciate with your 13-year-old. Those are the life-experiences I drew most of my writing from in the early years.

lizr: What advice can you give to a teacher wanting to break into educational markets for teacher resource materials, publishers that are eager to hear from new or unpublished writers?

Karen: Hi lizi--glad to have you with us tonight. My advice to a teacher who wants to write teacher resource materials would be to begin with magazines. Text book publishers often have in-house writers to write their textbooks. Of course the magazine you target will depend on the type of materials you want to publish. My advice is to find out what publications publish material for the age level that you are targeting and then, find out their needs. It may be through a theme list or a published "needs list." Or, you can query the editor with your idea. If it's a good idea that the editor can use, he/she will be happy to take a look at your piece. Marketing correctly is the key.

Mel: This is a presubmitted question, Karen:

Vijaya: How did YOU get started writing for educational publishers?

Karen: That's a great question Vijaya! Although my answer lacks "romance," I'll tell you the truth! I saw a blind ad in the newspaper that wanted someone with publishing expereince and teaching experience. At that time I had about 15 years’ teaching expereince, had been published quite a bit, and was working at the University of Connecticut on a political science magazine. When I got called for an interview (political science wasn't a good fit for me!) I then found out it was McGraw-Hill Publishers. Their technology division was headquartered in Connecticut at the time and they were looking for someone to write and edit teacher and student material for their web site. Like I said, not very romantic, but there it is!

Mel: Another presubmitted question:

RealityCzech: I intend to get “over that transom.” With so many publishers closing their door to unagented manuscripts, what does it take to become an agent? Can a spouse become an agent to represent his/her writer spouse? Can a writer become his/her own agent (in title, not just in name)?

Karen: Wow! RealityCzech—this is a tough question. I do not have a lot of expereince in this area. However, I do know several agents and it seems that the key to being an agent who can get material into publishers' hands is to have a lot of contacts in the field--and a good reputation. The agents that I know seem to know all the acquisitions editors and what they are looking for. I think it would be a difficult task to go into the agenting field "cold turkey."

beaauthor: Should you put a title on stationary: e.g. FreelanceWriter?

Karen: You could, of course, put a title on stationary. There is nothing wrong with that. Another good business move is to have cards printed up with your information and "freelance writer" on them. Then, when you go to writing conferences, you will have a card to hand out. Another sign of a pro!

skcope: Is Highlights a good magazine to target at first?

Karen: Highlights is a great magazine--but the competion is STIFF. I don't know what their numbers are currently, but they get far more manuscripts than they can use. My advice is to begin with less lofty publications (check the Writer's Market) and don't worry about the little checks you may receive at first—just concentrate on building credits. The bigger checks will come in eventually.

passion: Karen, how many times can a person submit to the same place?

Karen: Good evening, passion. Well, a person can keep submiting to the same place many times. If a manuscript is rejected, I wouldn't revise it and resubmit it unless the editor asks for a revision.

Mel: Good answer, Karen, thanks.

remus: Hello Karen, Thanks for coming today. What suggestions do you have when targeting a book publisher? Is it okay not to use a name of an editor when writing to a publisher? I am just asking because recently I keep seeing that you should address a submission to "Editorial Department" only.

Karen: It is always best to find out the name of the editor so you can address your manuscript personally. One of the ways that publishers can tell if a manuscript has come in over the transom is by the way it is addressed.

Mel: Could you elaborate on that, please, Karen?

Karen: Yes, if you send your manuscript to a real person, it will be delivered to that editor. Otherwise, it will go into the "transom box" where unrequested manuscripts get tossed until someone—usually a new editor or an intern—looks them over to see if there is anything worthwhile. It takes longer to get someone to look at your peice. And, unless it is really outstanding, it will just get returned to you. That's why I always tell my students to find the name of an editor whenever possible.

Mel: VERY interesting you should mention the "transom box," Karen, because we had an article posted on our site recently that used that old expression, "over the transom." I didn't know if "transom" was still around! But it sounds like it IS!

Karen: Yes, I do believe it is! I don't think there are too many real transoms, but the expression has stuck!

karahv: This is my first visit here, thank you for sharing, Karen and Mel!

Karen: Welcome, karahv, you are welcome!

lizr: What about writing for teacher publications—such as lessons and reproducibles? are those paid in royalties or flat fee or work for hire if they need you?

Karen: Hi—It has been my experience that lessons and reproducibles are paid with a flat fee. If an editor likes your work and finds that you dependably met deadlines he/she will happily hire you back—with your ideas or theirs. That's when the fun begins--when an editor calls you up and says, "Can you do ...." And, even though you haven't the slightest idea of how you will do it, you accept the assignmetnt because it's an assignment!

Mel: Here is a question presubmitted:

Vijaya: I like writing for the educational market. Does McGraw-Hill accept a resume from prospective freelance writers?

Karen: Vijaya, as far as I know, McGraw Hill advertises for the positions that they have open. They have offices all over the United States. My advice would be to go to their web site and click around until you find where their "positions open" page is. Who knows, you may find a position open! I have seen a number of ads at different times in the Boston Globe. The url is Http://www.mcgraw-hill.com.

Mel: RealityCzech pre-asked this question:

RealityCzech: As an editor, do you ever worry that in blocking so many manuscripts from consideration—no unsolicited, no unagented, etc.—you will miss an opportunity to expose the next J.K. Rowling? Or is it worth missing a diamond or two to reduce the slag heap?

Karen: Another good question! My editorial position wasn't one of an acquisitions editor, RealityCzech. My editoral position included writing/editing on-line materials and working with freelancers that McGraw had in their "stable" of freelancers. And, in Connecticut, we were only once tiny slice of a very big McGraw-Hill pie. But, to answer your question, I think every editor worries about passing up a JK Rowling!

ahsitan: How long after submission reply time should you follow up?

Karen: Welcome, ahsitan! When I was a new freelancer, I waited a long time—a couple of months. While I waited, I just kept writing articles and sending them out, so I always had them in circulation. After I became more experienced my wait time wasn't as long. I grew more confident and knew that if one publication didn't want it another probably would. So, I would give them a couple of weeks past the wait time and then, call or write again.

catlady: Karen, where did you read the ad? Newspaper classified or trade magazine, etc?

Karen: catlady: I read the ad in the Sunday classified section of the Hartford Courant! It was a blind ad, so I didn't know the company—just the requirements. While I worked for McGraw, every editor/writer we hired was hired the same way. Once in a while, we would get a candidate who was recommended by someone, but Connecticut isn't New York, and the pool of swapping freelancers wasn't huge!

lizr: How long did you work for McGraw-Hill?

Karen: I worked for McGraw-Hill for about 4 years. Then, I moved to Cape Cod and they closed the Connecticut facility (that had nothing to do with me leaving :-)).

Mel: A question along a different line now, Karen:

mose: How do you pack excitement into a few words?

Karen: mose, I think that Mark Twain said it best—"The difference between a word that is perfect and a word that is near perfect is the difference between thunder and lightning!" I think that we writers must first decide what we are trying to convey and then spend all of our energy and time finding the perfect words to say it with—sadly, there is no prescription—only blood, sweat, and tears.

Mel: Another good question presubmitted:

Vijaya: I have written test passages for CTB/McGraw-Hill. Does this mean they keep me on file for future assignments?

Karen: Well, if the editor that you worked for is still in that department, my guess would be yes. If you want more work from them, get on the phone and call! Without a doubt, once you have written for a publisher, they will be more likely to hire you back. If you haven't heard from them in a while, the editor you worked with may have left or been transferred to a different department.

Vijaya: Do you know anything about e-lance? If yes, how does it work?

Karen: I don't know anything about e-lance. I'm sorry!

dugnsarah: Who writes most of the material in textbooks?

Karen: Hi dugnsarah! Well, I can speak only from my own experience and the texbook writers were the writers/editors that we had on staff.

dugnsarah: Is the textbook market open to freelance writers?

Karen: My experience has shown that most of the writing is done in-house. HOWEVER, if you have an idea for a text book, I would advise you to check the publisher's web site. you'll be surprised at the information that you will find there! Also, write a brief proposal and then, query the publisher. I always figured it can't hurt to try!

iscribe: To how many places can you submit the same manuscript?

Karen: Good evening iscribe. Many publications say that they take simultaneous submissions. However, it has been my experience that the manuscripts that are submitted simultaneously are less likey to get accepted. The reason for this is that if an editor accepts your manuscript, he/she doesn't want to see it in another publication a week before they publish it! I always discourage simultaneous submissions. Technically, however, you can submit it to as many publications as you wish!

ahsitan: What's your best advice of how to get out of the slush pile?

Karen: That's a great question! First of all: query the editor to get the go-ahead on an assignment. If you don't do that and just want to send it in over the transom, then make sure to get the editor's name. Finally, write the very best piece you can. As the editor of Guideposts once told me, "The cream floats to the top."

tkat_2: I've heard from editors at writer's conferences that they don't like flashy business cards either. I was also told by the founder of the local writing group that any other title—like Freelance Writer—marked someone as amateur. Am I right?

Karen: Absolutely. When confronted with a decision about business cards and/or stationary, think "understated" and "professional."

gladys1: What if you want to write a novel and not for a magazine?

Karen: Hi gladys1. Glad you are still with us! If you want to write a novel, then my advice would be to outline the whole novel, write the first three chapters, and then, submit those chapers to a publisher. There is an exact science to submitting novel ideas to a publisher and my advice would be to get a book on that topic (yes! whole books have been written on it). Then, target a particular publisher and craft your proposal/chapters to their specs.

shirlanne: Will my many magazine credits "help me" when I approach book editors?

Karen: Hi shirlanne: Yes, any publishing credits and experience in the field is a good thing!

beaauthor: I wrote manuals, sold them to teachers--does that count as being published?

Karen: Yes, yes, yes! Without a doubt. As a matter of fact, many people have jobs writing manuals. Every time you buy a piece of software or a new gizmo and the directions flutter to the ground, those directions or manuals were written by a writer who works in the editorial department of that company.

regcorazon: What must a writer for the education market have that other writers do not have?

Karen: regcorzaon, greetings! At McGraw-hill, it was essential that all of the educational writers be experienced in the classroom and, of course, be able to write! In my department, everyone had been a teacher at one time or another.

arnalda: Please forgive me if this question has already been asked, but how would one apply to write test passages? Thanks!

Karen: arnalda, that question hasn't been asked! If you want to write test passages, I would query the company that you are interested in working for. If you have previously published clips, send them along with the query. In otherwords, put a nice little package together showing them what you can do!

iscribe: What is meant by “over the transom”?

Karen: "Over the transom" is an old expression that dates back to the time when doors had transoms, openable windows above them. Some writers in those old days would toss their manuscripts through that transom.  Now “over the transom” has come to mean an unsolicited manuscript.

gailmarina: What is the best way to contact picture book publishers?

Karen: Hi gailmarina! If you are interested in publishing a picture book, you will need to target a specific publisher. Then, go to their web site or write them for their specs. They will let you know exactly how they want the idea submitted.

kelmar: I have a nonfiction picture book ready to send out, I have a house in mind that I think it is perfect for, the house requests a query letter and writing sample. I have published credits that aren't the "style" of the house; my manuscript is, however.  Can I send part of the actual manuscript for a sample, and if so, how much? Thanks!

Karen: Hi Kelmar! Welcome. If I were you, I'd send exactly what the house wants. And then, the opening page or two of the actual manuscript that is well-marked as such. It can't hurt. However, be sure to meet all their guidelines for submission.

moxyroxy: I want to ask about "historical picture books." What do you know about writing them, Karen?

Karen: moxyroxy: thanks for the question--I'm not sure what you mean by "historical picture book." Do you mean a chapter book with pictures or something for an emerging reader?

Mel: I think both are what moxyroxy means, Karen. And I LOVE that username!

Karen: Either way, my advice would be to target a specific house that publishes that type of book, find out their submission requirements and then, follow them exactly. There are different requirements for each publisher.

gibby: Does McGraw Hill accept proposals for supplemental books?

Karen: Hi gibby! Good question! McGraw-Hill's needs are constantly changing. Each year they get contracts for new books for all ages. I would urge you to check their web site and find out what their current needs are. If they are open to manuscripts, they will publish it. Or, you can find out an editor’s name and send a query letter!

corvette: Do you know what type of "cream" Guideposts likes the best?

Karen: Hi corvette! Guideposts is a unique publication who is willing to work with new writers. They want a good story first and foremost!

tkat_2: Is being able to write for an hour a day one of your effective habits as a writer?

Karen: Yes! Without a doubt. However, there were days when I couldn't write for an hour due to family commitments. So, I would make sure I did SOMETHING to further my dream, read an article about writing, write for 15 minutes, or read a marketing guide—I would have to do something!!!

Mel: Karen, you have made two hours pass like two minutes, with all that you've shared with us about both writing and editing. I have been even more impressed than ever this evening with the breadth of your knowledge and your skills in writing and editing, and in your ability to relate to us who are not so published as you. I really hope you'll be able to return someday, and pick up where we've had to leave off so reluctantly tonight. Would you please consider returning to chat with us again sometime?

Karen: Yes, Mel. This has been great. Thank you for your questions and for a wonderful evening.

Mel: Two weeks from tonight, James Cross Giblin will be our Chat Guest. Jim was Children's Editor at Clarion Books for more than 25 years—a record for any editor. Since leaving that position, he has continued to edit the books of authors he worked with at Clarion, and has also established himself as an award-winning writer for children, with many books to his credit, including The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler and Chimney Sweeps Yesterday and Today. Any author who has ever worked with Jim Giblin will tell you that he is a very unusual editor, unusually kind and gentle and knowledgeable, truly a gentleman--and extremely knowledgeable about the market for children's books. He has been a regular speaker at the Highlights For Children Chautauqua summer conference, a regular columnist for the Children's Writer, as well as mentor to MANY children's writers through the years, who owe their start in children's writing to James Cross Giblin. Come back again in two weeks, on July 15, and chat with this EDITOR of EDITORS!

Mel: We can't thank you enough, Karen Orfitelli, for being our chat guest here tonight, and for all you've shared with us about the work of writing and editing for children. We wish you WELL in your writing, editing, and teaching, Karen! And we'll look forward to having you back in our chat room again when you're able to come! A bang-up Fourth of July to you all!

Karen: Thank you--Happy Fourth of July!

regcorazon: I had a great first time in a forum. Thanks, Karen!

Karen: You're welcome!

tkat_2: Thanks for coming, Karen!

Karen: Thank you for being here.

Mel: GOODNIGHT, EveryWriter!