“Writing Greeting Cards: Unexpected Treasure for                     Children’s Writers” with Diane Nees

Thursday, October 21, 2004

Dy: is Diane Nees, better known as Dy, who writes in many genres, from children’s picture books to screenplays.  But Diane Nees’ special specialty is writing and selling greeting cards.  She has sold a dozen of her cards, some of which can be seen at: http://www.currentcatalog.com/, with “Friendship Naturals” as the search word, then a click on any one of Diane’s cards to see the messages inside and outside.  Dy is a full-time classroom teacher who has also used what she has learned about greeting card writing in her classroom.  Diane Nees knows how to come up with greeting card ideas, how to prepare them for submission, and how and where to sell greeting cards.  She is also an excellent teacher of the how-to of greeting cards.  Dy Nees is following in good footsteps, since Jerry Pinkney—the winner of four Caldecott Honor Medals for his picture books—got his start by writing and selling greeting cards.

Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with Diane Nees and web editor of the ICL Web Site.

Green shows names or usernames of people, and the questions they asked Caroline Arnold.

Interviews are held every other Thursday evening for two hours, beginning at 9 CANADA/ Atlantic Time, 8 Eastern Time, 7 Central Time, 6 Mountain Time, and 5 Pacific Time.

Mel: Diane Nees and I WELCOME you WARMLY to the ICL Chat Room! We have not had a Chat Guest, in my memory, to talk about writing greeting cards as one area of writing that is open to us children's writers. Diane has published a dozen of her greeting cards, in addition to her writing of poetry, picture books, screenplays, and more. She is also a full-time classroom teacher, so she comes to chat with us after a long day in the classroom. We really appreciate your coming to be with us in the chat room tonight, Dy, and hope this won't be your last chat with us. We are eager to hear you share all about your experience in how to write, submit and sell greeting cards. WELCOME to the ICL Chat Room, Diane Nees!

Dy: Hi Mel and everyone it's nice to be here. I hope I can offer you some insights into writing greeting cards and trying your own hand at it.

Mel: Dy, did you do any writing as a child?

Dy: Yes, I sure did, all the time. I would always have a pen in my hand and be writing something.

Mel: Were either of your parents writers, or in the arts as such, Dy?

Dy: NO, they are good critiquers but I'm afraid they were into antiquing and other things, never writing.

Mel: How did YOU first start writing then, as a child, if you did?

Dy: As a child, I liked to dabble with poems and short stories, then got into bigger things and would bury myself in the Writer's Market. I always noticed the category of greeting cards but never stopped to try it until about a year and a half ago.

Mel: So, did greeting card verse writing come LATE in your writing experience?

Dy: Yes. I have written many things and am always writing. Greeting cards seem to be a nice break in between bigger projects for me.

Mel: What kind of writing did you START with, then when you started?

Dy: I started writing novels and children's short stories. Now I like writing picture books, greeting cards, teacher resources books and screenplays.

Mel: WOW, what a LOT of genres you write in—and very successfully!

Dy: I sure enjoy it all, 'yup, I guess I do like a good variety.

Mel: You mentioned poetry writing to me, did your poetry writing eventually "link you up" with writing greeting cards?

Dy: I believe the enjoyment of doing it surely helped. However, many greeting card companies would not look at verses as poetry exactly, and many steer away form rhyme.

Mel: Would you say that most greeting cards are written simply in prose?

Dy: Yes, that's what many call for in their guidelines. Also, the simpler, the better is what they seem to buy the most of.

Mel: Does a saying ever inspire a card for you?

Dy: Yes, it surely does. One of my Friendship Naturals comes from a narrative part of a screenplay I wrote on friendship. It sounded like a card to me; it's the one that ends with “distance can only be measured by the journey fo the heart.”

Mel: Did that great label, "Friendship Naturals," come out of your screenplay?

Dy: No, it didn't, but I do put a group of verses together with some type of a heading/label like that.

Mel: Is that something WE should think about doing if we write greeting cards?

Dy: I would say yes. But as you do that you would want to make sure in your letter to the company that you state you are willing to break up a collection.

Mel: Can you remember how your VERY FIRST greeting card came about?

Dy: How I came to writing it?

Mel: Yes.

Dy: I decided to take that break after some bigger projects and was thinking about friendship. I just sat down and started, deciding that I would probably need to send several verses in at a time, and friendship is a topic that felt comfortable.

Mel: So we should be thinking about a general topic, in addition to specific cards?

Dy: Yes, you would want to decide on a category such as Get Well Cards or Birthday—something that provokes much feeling from you might be your best bet.

kdrw: When submitting greeting cards, do you include the same kind of cover letters as with other submissions?

Dy: Very similar, except that I will tell them I'm using clip art just for “looks,” and let them know that I'm willing to break up a set. But yes, you would ask them to consider reading your verses for publication.

Mel: Is it ever necessary to submit a QUERY letter to a greeting card publisher, Dy, or do they just want the submission, with a COVER letter?

Dy: Some companies do require a query. One in particular is Plesh Creative Group out of Maine, which I have not tried but would like to.

Mel: Plesh Creative Group is at: http://www.pleshcreative.com/home.htm.

adele: Do you submit the art work or photos as well as the verse?

Dy: I am only capable of clip art—LOL—but I DO read of companies that would like photography and art work from those of you more capable than I.

writermom: I don't think of myself as much of an artist so could I just submit verses or do I need to include some kind or art?

Dy: Absolutely just go for the verses. That is really all they want and unless you are an artist, it is all they will buy.

kdrw: For those of us who don't illustrate, what should we do if we feel the need to include art?

Dy: That's me. I have to do the clip art just for the FEEL of the piece.

dave hartmann: Do you have to sell the rights to your design?

Dy: So far, my experience is that I have sold the rights, yes, but I imagine there's give and take. They do discuss the terms somewhat, on a limited basis.

Mel: Let's go back to basic motivation, Dy. What motivates you to write greeting cards?

Dy: I really think it's fun and a challenge to make your words so concise.

Mel: What's the first step to take when thinking about writing greeting cards?

Dy: Research the market. I did much of that online. Then think of the category you would prefer to write in. Some people really love humor and there's much call for humorous cards.

Mel: Are there any other particular categories that, like humor, seem to sell extra well?

Dy: Each company is seeking pretty specific material just as they are in publishing houses. You have to see what they want or it won't sell to them. Their guidelines are often very specific.

Mel: Here's a specific question about a specific kind of cards:

Hope Marston: Because I sometimes cannot find sympathy cards for pet lovers, I have tried writing my own. Can you suggest publishing companies that accept freelance submissions for such cards? Many thanks.

Dy: Yes, Current, Inc. out of CO, Gallant Greeting cards out of Chicago, Paradise Greetings out of CA, and Amberley Greetings out of Ohio. But Pet Lovers...hmmm...Avanti Press may be best. They are out of New York.

Mel: The URLs for those five are: http://www.ccicards.com, http://www.gallantgreetings.com, http://www.paradisegreetings.com, http://www.amberleygreeting.com and http://www.curiosities.com/avanti-greeting-cards.asp.

violaincog: How did you first find greeting card companies online? Are there specific search words we can use to find them?

Dy: Great question, violaincog! I just went to google and did a general search. Then I believe the second item listed usually has a link to many of the companies I've talked about.

Mel: Incidentally, I just went online on another browser, and Googled up about 3 million greeting card URLs!

Mel: Here are similar questions from two different people:

lizr: What how-to books have you used to help you learn the greeting card business and market?

Nancy G.: Are there reference (books or internet sites) for editors/publishers of the greeting card market, as there are for magazines and book publishers?

Dy: I have never used a how-to book for greeting cards.

Mel: If you go to http://www.amazon.com, choose the topic “Books” to search in, and enter the search words “Writing Greeting Cards,” you will find MANY greeting card writing how-to books.

Nancy G.: If you don’t use reference books, does a writer have to simply send what she thinks is her best work and hope for the best?

Dy: If you research the market and look at greeting cards in the store, I think you may find that is a good reference. Even looking at what you like, write down the company and address, and check them out online. I'm not sure when we send anything in we will know ahead if it is to their liking other than to see what they have published.

Nancy G.: Is looking at greeting cards in the store how you keep up with the changing and specific needs of different markets, Diane?

Dy: Yes, and I look at them in terms of design, too, often. Would I like my verses to be on the artwork they supply or the cardstock they use? And then I check out a few for style.

Mel: How many cards do you submit at a time? And also, how many cards at once would one publisher prefer to receive in submission?

Dy: I generally try to send ten to fifteen, and most often I read they like around ten or twelve.

Mel: There are four cards in your Friendship Naturals set. Did you submit more than that to the publisher that bought them?

Dy: Yes, I did. I believe I submitted ten and they bought four and put the rest on file.

violaincog: What does it mean for a publisher to "put the rest on file"? That doesn't seem to happen with books, or even stories and articles.

Dy: They have asked to keep the work in case they want to purchase it later. I ask that they make a copy for their file instead of keeping what I have sent.

Mel: Are they likely to come back to use those that are on file?

Dy: I have not found that they have, and if they did, most are sold to other companies before they come back for them. But I think it's a nice gesture on their part. Not every company says they will do that.

Mel: Is there a standard format to submit a greeting card in? On 8 ½ - by 11-inch paper, one card on a page, outside and inside on the same sheet, for instance?

Dy: Yes, you have it down pat already--LOL. One verse per 8 ½ - by 11-inch page is right. I put my title at the top. Outside: verse, then Inside: verse, and add my clip art.

Mel: How do greeting card companies contact YOU? And do they work by e-mail, or by telephone?

Dy: Both. I had Current call me and e-mail me in the same day. Gallant only called. Paradise e-mails, etc., each is different.

Nancy G.: How long must one wait for an answer so a submission, on the average?

Dy: Most of the time only weeks. Once in a while, someone holds on longer—or perhaps doesn't respond at all. :o(

Mel: Here are several askings of the SAME question I've been dying to ask, Dy: J

Nancy G.: How much does one earn from writing a greeting card text? (range or average,

kdrw: What does a typical card sell for?

adele: How much does a company pay for a greeting card?

Dy: I've seen the range from $30 per verse to $100 per verse and my experience has been that sometimes they pay even more. And just think, sometimes for only 8 words!

Mel: “FANTASTIC!!!” I heard LOTS of us say!

Dy: It is.

Nancy G.: Is it an advantage to be both writer and illustrator? Or is it a disadvantage to be writer only, as myself? Or do greeting-card publishers prefer to match different writers to different illustrators?

Dy: In my opinion, it is ALWAYS an advantage, Nancy, to have both talents. You are bound to have something to sell. And Current looks for both. Since I'm not an illustrator I have not combed their guidelines for that. I do know much writing and art is done in-house just as in other writing fields.

Mel: And would a publisher try to MATCH you as the writer with a particular illustrator, Dy?

Dy: I believe it's in the back of their mind for sure. I can say this because on one of my original

Friendship Naturals the editor wrote a note to consider these for a certain match.

kdrw: How do you mail your submissions? In business-sized envelopes? In bigger envelopes to keep them flat?

Dy: I keep them flat, using large envelopes, 9X12 inchers.

kdrw: Do you have to add clip art?

Dy: No, in fact there's one company that specifically says they will only accept black and white text.

writingmachine: May we know of that company for only black and white text?

Dy: Yes, P.S. Greetings out of Chicago.

Mel: If I am a reasonably good "sketcher," would that be enough "art" for my submissions?

Dy: If you are adding art, I would think they would accept a sketch as a proposal. But I can tell you they end up with what they want. My original submissions look WAY different than the finished product, even in art ideas.

Mel: Can you give us a specific example of how they changed your ideas that way?

Dy: Yes, when I wrote the Friendship Natural side-by-side, etc. I used cats and paws, things like that. And the company did them with children, which I like!

Mel: Here's a good summary kind of question:

cup: So we are expected to submit a two-part sentiment? A message for the outside and one inside to complete it. And we're also expected to send clip art or some kind of suggestion for the art work?

Dy: In most cases you will want to submit an outside, inside, unless they specify otherwise. Clip art is a matter of taste.

Mel: Thanks, Dy, your answers are right on the money!

Nancy G.: What subjects/occasions do you think are the most solicited by card companies?

Dy: I see birthday cards most often, and more recently many “Care” type cards, which I want to try—care and coping.

Nancy G.: Is there more of a demand for children's or adults' greeting cards?

Dy: Just from what I see, I would guess adults, but surely children's birthday cards would be in demand.

writingmachine: Just how large is the market for greeting cards?

Dy: Greeting cards are all over and companies are probably in every state. The trick would be to research ones that do not use in-house writers. But I think the demand is large enough.

Mel: Does the Hallmark Cards, giant as they are, ever accept verse and card ideas from freelancers, or do they employ all in-house or contracted writers for all their cards?

Dy: They are strictly in-house. But they will give you a test and move you there if they like you!

Mel: Have you tried that, would you suggest it? Or should a "carder" wait to gain more experience first?

Dy: I have never tried their test. They give you samples, though, and it's kind of fun to see what they like.

adele: Were most of your early submissions accepted or rejected?

Dy: Accepted. I AM SURE that's why I want to get into more categories!

Mel: Could you venture an estimate, Dy, on how many times, on average, a card idea is submitted before it gets accepted?

Dy: I'm not sure I can answer that one, Mel, maybe three times?

Mel: If it takes, as is being said, SEVEN YEARS to publish a first book, publishing greeting cards sounds MUCH quicker!...

Dy: Oh, Yes. I'm still waiting on the books. LOL.

kdrw: If you are sending 10-15 ideas at a time, do they all need to be a similar theme to fit in the same cover letter?

Dy: You can vary what you send. I have sent some friendship, a few birthday and a few Christmas cards together, though I don't do it that often. I go in streaks of sending at all.

lizr: Do greeting card companies ever send out a themes or "needs List " with their guidelines? Or do you have to ask for those as well?

Dy: They do indicate if they deal in general cards of all themes or if they just want Christian themes, or animal, or humor.

kdrw: Do specific holiday cards need to be submitted at a particular time of year (like 6 months in advance)?

Dy: Yes. My Friendship Naturals were purchased in March and came out in December. So, that may give you a time frame.

writermom: How do you start writing greeting cards after writing novels and short stories? For me that seems like it might be a difficult jump.

Dy: I really think that's why it was a good jump. I needed something short, something where I did not have to map out characters, plots, etc.

Mel: Two similar questions, Dy:

writingmachine: What about simultaneous submissions—the same card to different companies? Is it advisable?

lizr: Is it best to send exclusive submissions?

Dy: I used to only do exclusive, then my theory changed and I have started with simultaneous submissions, and for greeting cards it's okay. It can get you into a pickle with bigger projects like books, I've found.

Mel: Here's a GOOD greeting card link, thanks to writingmachine!:

writingmachine: Check out: http://freelanceformoney.bravehost.com/estore.htm.

Mel: THANK YOU, writingmachine!

kdrw: Can you use published cards as publishing credits when you are submitting to magazines?

Dy: Yes, you can.

christa: What about selling rights, is it “all rights” in general?

Dy: That has been what I've found, but I'll be honest christa, I never asked for anything different. It seemed like such a few words and I could just write more.

Mel: I'd think selling all rights makes sense with greeting cards, because there aren't many OTHER places you could sell a greeting card verse to with anything like reprint rights.

ladybird39pm: People are making their own cards. Has that slowed down your selling?

Dy: It hasn't hurt my selling when I do submit. In fact, I make a lot of my own cards, and stamping is so “in,” but I think people are still looking!

Nancy G.: What is more in demand: prose or verse? Or does that depend on the publisher?

Dy: Depends on the publisher, yes. But most say prose, and short prose.

Nancy G.: Is the submission/acceptance or rejection process similar to sending stories to magazine and book publishers?

Dy: Yes, it's the same. OOPS! Maybe a bit different. You may be asked to write your own invoice to submit to the publisher!

Nancy G.: When published, do greeting card writers get free copies of their work?

Dy: I have not, Nancy. In fact, I have not seen them all in print, so you can imagine my delight when I saw the Friendship Naturals, which I have now changed to Friendship Casuals. Some companies will tell you where they are in the process if you call and ask.

Nancy G.: You spoke of submitting cards simultaneously, Diane. Does that mean you've never heard of a greeting card publisher that frowns upon simultaneous submissions?

Dy: I haven't heard them say that, no. In fact, they generally ask if it's still available, which means they assume you are submitting to more than just them.

Mel: What specifics would be important to include in a cover letter?

Dy: The types of cards you are submitting, the number of each, how you would be willing to sell them, as a group or individually. And always that SASE (Self Addressed Stamped Envelope) so you know their answer!

Mel: Here's a GREAT compliment to you, Dy:

boogerwoman: You really make it look easy...and fun!

Dy: Thank you, boogerwoman.  It really is fun and easy. I think because it's less of a risk with a few words than a few thousand words.

Mel: WELL put, Dy!

ladybird39pm: Do you draw your own art for cards? Or designs? Do you sell cards by the dozen?

Dy: I sell them individually if that's the way they want them. And no, I do not submit artwork or designs for the verses I write.

ladybird39pm: Does your name go on the back of your cards? Is there a way you can tell that it is YOUR card?

Dy: My name has not been on any so far BUT Paradise Greeting does credit their writers and they bought verses from me for a line of cards they are in the process of making, so, maybe one day!

Mel: Now I have a card of my OWN for you to critique, Dy! Half in jest, but not all in jest, I want to throw you a greeting card idea. I would like for you to critique it just as it might be critiqued by an editor in yourgreeting card experience. OK?

Dy: OK, I'll give it a whirl.

Mel: Roses are red,

         Violets are purple.

         I love you

         Like maple syrple. J

Dy: Hmmmmm. Okay, I'm thinking now.

Mel: Take your time. And let me have it—I can take it!  I won’t cry.

Dy: Maybe they would say it's too standard, and working too hard at rhyming. But I admit the syrple is kind of funny. Why don't you try it at Amberley where they like humor and see if they buy or send you guidelines, Mel!

Mel: You ARE a GREAT SPORT—Thank you! This could be the beginning of a new career for me! J

Dy: I think so.

Mel: Here are some responses to my corny card idea:

boogerwoman: hahahahaha!

ladybird39pm: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahh!  Oh, Mel!

Mel: Wait'll you see my card in the stores, boogerwoman and ladybird39pm! J

Dy: That's good!

ladybird39pm: my thoughts too Dy. Sorry, Mel. I hope I did not hurt your feelings ;(

Mel: That's OK, ladybird39pm, I’m crying now, L but I'll laugh my way to the bank when I sell that card! J

Dy: I'll buy your card, Mel.

Mel: Thanks, Dy!

peanut: Mel, you are a true poet. Almost as good as my seven-year-old son. LOL

Mel: LOL--maybe I'll do better when I'm eight!

christa: How do you agree on a selling price?

Dy: They ask you what you will accept, so there can be some bargaining. I should say that is some companies, while others just tell you what they pay—it varies.

writingmachine: What about foreign markets; Europe? Is there a difference?

Dy: I haven't triedforeign markets but there is one out of London I would like to try in the near future. They sound contemporary and like they want the chatty kinds of verses, which I also like to write.

Mel: Could you give us a clue to the name of that London company so we might find their URL, Dy?

Dy: OK, but remember I am not a geographer. It's Paper Rose, LTD, and it says Nottingham--don't laugh—is that London? LOL!

writingmachine: Nothing ham is farther north than Nottingham. :)

Mel: That’s a pun that MIGHT make a good card idea!

Dy: Good one!

Mel: Here’s Paper Rose, LTD: http://www.touchnottingham.com/comdir/cditem.cfm/13827.

cup: As a beginner what would you accept for payment?

Dy: Asking for $30 to $50 per verse can't hurt, beginner or not.

christa: After serving time as a "beginner," what might you get paid on average for your verses?

Dy: About that same $30 to $50, and I'm not sure beginner has too much to do with it. It is probably more the size of the company and other factors.

kdrw: Do you put your name and address etc on the top of every card submission like we would each page of an article?

Dy: Actually in my title I put Dy's Friendship Casuals, the rest in the cover letter.

christa: What's a good starting price to bargain with when dealing with a LARGER company?

Dy: I'd still say about $30 to $50 per verse, and see what they say, unless they want to buy your entire set.

Mel: Dy, based on your carding experience, if I submitted 100 cards, to perhaps ten different companies, how many of those might I EXPECT to sell, if any?

Dy: I'd say half—just guessing, though.

feelancer: How long does it take for a response from the companies?

Dy: Generally a couple of weeks. Nothing like waiting for responses to teacher resource books—LOL—that's a couple of years!!

kdrw: So you have you own brand of sorts?

Dy: Do you mean the types of cards I like to write?

kdrw: Yes  

Mel: Your "Friendship Naturals" is a kind of brand that no one else could use, right?

Dy: That's right. I did not know they would be using the title Friendship Naturals. I'm comfortable with the subject of friendship. And I would like to try the “care/cope” cards, but I simply bomb at humor!

Mel: So do I, as you could tell by my “maple syrple” card! J We have used up two hours like two minutes, chatting with you, Diane! You have shined SO MUCH light on just how we can go about writing and selling greeting cards. We all give you our admiration for the cards you've published that we have seen on the Internet, and wish you even GREATER success with your greeting cards in the future—plus success with your poetry, picture books, screenplays, and more! Thank you for coming, and I hope you'll be willing to come back in the future.

Dy: Thanks, I’d love to, Mel!

Mel: We will have an artist/illustrator for our next Guest Chat, on Thursday November 4.  Ellen Beier will be chatting with us on the topic "From Story to Pictures: Children's Book Illustration.” Many of you asked for more about illustrating this year, and a greater porportion of our guests than ever before has been artists/illustrators. Ellen Beier was recommended as an illustrator who is outstanding, smart, and witty, and I have found Ellen to be exactly those things as I've corresponded with her about being our ICL Chat Guest on November 4. Among many books, Ellen has illustrated are Anne of Green Gables, The Blue Hill Meadows and Eighteen Penny Goose. (LOVE that title!) You can take a look at these illustrations of Ellen's, as well as her many others, by selecting the search for Books at the Amazon Web Site www.amazon.com, then using Ellen Beier as your search words. You'll have a very enjoyable time enlarging the covers of Ellen's illustrated books which Amazon will allow you to; and your enjoyment will be MULTIPLIED, I guarantee!

Mel: Thank YOU again, Diane Nees, after a long school day, for being with us for this chat tonight!  I will be eager to have you come back again, because I sense that many of the chatsters—AND I—have lots of questions left about writing and selling greeting cards.  We REALLY appreciate what you have done to help us consider the new-to-most-of-us writing of greeting cards.

Dy: Goodnight, everyone!

Mel: THANK YOU ALL for being here this evening.  GOODNIGHT and Happy Greeting Card Writing to us all!