Instititute of Children's Literature

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Transcripts

"The Power of Picture Books" with Maribeth Boelts

Thursday, September 13, 2001

Moderator is Kristi Holl, the web editor for this site and author of 24 books and 150+ stories and articles.

Maribeth is Maribeth Boelts, author 17 books for children, including Little Bunny's Preschool Countdown; Big Daddy, Frog Wrestler; Grace and Joe; Dry Days, Wet Nights (A Concept Book); and You're a Brother, Little Bunny. Additional titles are forthcoming from G.P. Putnam, Candlewick Press, Harper Collins, and Random House.

Names in blue are viewers who asked questions.

Interviews are held on Thursday nights: 9-11 p.m. Atlantic/CANADA, 8-10 p.m. Eastern, 7-9 Central, 6-8 Mountain, and 5-7 Pacific

Moderator: Good evening, everyone. I'm Kristi Holl, the web editor for this site. Tonight, because of events unfolding in our country, we're going to compromise for this interview. Maribeth has agreed to do the interview offline so we could have the transcript to read. As we think about the impact of current events on our children, I am especially pleased to have Maribeth Boelts, a writer who loves children and writes books to help them deal with various subjects. Welcome, Maribeth!

Maribeth: Thank you.

Moderator: How did you come to write picture books in the first place?

Maribeth: Picture books are my first love! 12 years ago, I was a former preschool teacher with two young kids at home who decided to take seriously the art of crafting a picture book. Not to sound simplistic, but I read every picture book I could, read a few great books on writing for children--my favorite is Ellen Roberts' The Children's Picture Book, How to Write It, How to Sell It. I wrote many marginal stories, and have the rejections to prove it, but after a while, I began to improve. Though I've written for older children, I am still most drawn to the picture book and the audience for whom they are intended.

Moderator: Have you written both nonfiction/fiction?

Maribeth: While most of my books are fiction, I have also written a six book safety series for children in 2nd-4th grade, and a first aid book for children of the same age.

Moderator: Many people will say they have a story that their children or grandchildren loved having told to them, and they want to make a picture book from the story. Is this a good test for a story?

Maribeth: I have heard this many times, as well! Over the years, my children have grown up critiquing my stories, after a first read by my husband. With some bribery, my children will put on their editing hats, and will listen to and read my work, which has been extremely valuable to me. I do, however, have to take into consideration their individual personalities... My eldest, busy with school, work, girlfriend, etc., reads haphazardly and quickly, but is good for a "gut" reaction. Does this story work on a basic level? My middle child, Hannah, though very well-read, is compliant and kind. Her critiques are gentle and focus more on the details. My youngest, who has a curious blend of perfectionism and creativity, is the one who makes faces as I read, who interrupts me with points he doesn't "get", and lets me know, in no uncertain terms, what I should change.

Many picture books have been created from stories that were told to children at bedtime, or to entertain during waiting times, such as Leo Lionni's books, Little Blue and Little Yellow, which was told to his two grandchildren to entertain them on a long airline flight. There's no doubt in my mind that his grandchildren loved their grandpa's impromptu story. Somewhere along the line, however, we have been told that people who love us will automatically love our stories, therefore they cannot be trusted as good judges of the merit of our work. I think differently. If you have a safe relationship with the children in your life, and are open to both the good and the not-so-good things they have to say, they are a truly valuable resource. Also, by enlisting the help of children, you are affirming them in a powerful way. Though it probably goes without saying, I would caution anyone from using the fact that "my children love my story" in your cover letter, or in any conversations with your future editor, no matter how tempting.

Moderator: How can I tell the difference between a picture book and a short children's story for a magazine?

Maribeth: It can be a trick to determine this, but I think making a dummy is one of your best tests. (term explained later) I also think that by reading plenty of both picture books, and magazine stories for children, one can get a sense of which category your story falls into. With picture books, there must be plenty of opportunity for varied illustration--with magazine stories, it is not as critical.

Moderator: What is a typical word count for a picture book?

Maribeth: As few as possible! When I first started writing, I had about a 1200 word cap--now editors are asking for manuscripts with under 800 words, citing that booksellers, and the adults who buy books for children, want picture books with very little text. Of course, there are those more generous exceptions, but currently, it's what I've been hearing from several editors.

Moderator: How many pages is the average picture book?

Maribeth: Typically, they are 24 or 32 pages, though they do go up or down in increments of 8.

Moderator: Let's talk about some of the terms associated with picture books. First, what are board books?

Maribeth: Think babies and toddlers! These are durable little books that babies can chew on, with minimal or no text at all.

Moderator: What is a concept book?

Maribeth: Actually, it's a category that means different things to different people. Some people categorize books like Tana Hoban's books about shapes, colors, opposites, etc., as concept books, while other people consider Albert Whitman & Company's books about issues such as asthma, diabetes, AIDS, etc., as concept books. Either way, when I think about a concept book, I think of a picture book that explores an issue or idea--though not in an encyclopedic format--and tries to help children make sense of it, either through the use of story, factual information, illustration or photos, or a combination of all of the above.

Moderator: Are animal fantasies still popular?

Maribeth: Yes! That's one thing that hasn't changed over the years!

Moderator: Do all picture books need to tell a story? What about "mood" books, like WHITE SNOW BRIGHT SNOW, or HIDE-AND-SEEK FOG? Is this type of picture book still selling?

Maribeth: Though I don't know about overall sales, I do feel that while it can be a little more difficult to sell an editor a "mood" story than one more action or character driven, particularly now when editors are talking more about the bottom line of "will this book be financially strong enough to sign?" But the "mood" books you ask about play an important role in children's literature--they slow us down, they ask us to linger on words, and they evoke feelings that often untapped in our lives and in the lives of the children we read to. Think of GOODNIGHT MOON...do you remember how it felt to either have that book read to you, or to read it to a child? You could never hurry through that book--it was meant to be savored... and remembered... and it was, what would now be called, a "mood" book.

Anne-Megan: What about the picture story book, a sort of sub-genre averaging 2000 words for ages 8-12? How do you know when it's a picture story book, and when it's a short story? An example of this sub-genre is GOOD QUEEN BESS, THE STORY OF ELIZABETH I OF ENGLAND, by Diane Stanley.

Maribeth: I have a few of these books in my collection--they are an exciting new development in picture books. One way to determine what exactly you've written is to consider deeply your audience for whom you are writing. Also, are there many wonderful possibilities for illustration, or does all the action take place in one or two settings? Could it be used by teachers who work with upper elementary, middle or high school students? Is it layered enough for a picture book, or will you have to stretch it to make it work? Are you able to "chunk" the text into balanced segments, just as you would a picture book manuscript for younger children? Then...if you still aren't sure, submit it and get feedback from an editor!

Moderator: I have been surprised in recent years to see picture books being done for middle school and even junior high kids. Is this a trend for the future? Are they high-low books?

Maribeth: The themes of many picture books have a universal appeal--such as love, relationships, humor and nostalgia. Illustrations for picture books have changed and improved dramatically over the years, as has the quality of writing, though there are wonderful exceptions that have stood the test of time and many printings. We are also a highly visually oriented society, and picture books provide a great vehicle for those visual learners. Tackling difficult issues, such as war, environmental issues, drugs, death, etc., in a short, highly visual format--picture books are easily and effectively incorporated into lessons, where they can act as a springboard for further exploration and learning. High-Low books are a different cat entirely. These are high interest books for students with low reading levels. For instance, there might be a book about skateboarding, with an intended junior high audience, but written at a 3rd grade reading level.

Moderator: Do I need to find my own illustrator if I want to submit a picture book manuscript?

Maribeth: Not at all! That's the publisher's job.

Moderator: Is it okay to give suggestions or illustration if your text is very brief and highly visual?

Maribeth: Proceed with caution, and only do so if it is absolutely necessary. I have added a short note here and there on a manuscript when I felt is was imperative, but generally speaking, I allow the editor the freedom of imagining what the illustrations might look like.

Moderator: Does the author of a picture book have any say in who the publisher chooses for an illustrator?

Maribeth: Though there are exceptions, the author has little say in who the publisher chooses. I was once asked to supply a list of illustrators I would like them to consider, but they didn't choose anybody on my list! I did have fun creating it, though!

Moderator: Why does it take sooooo long sometimes between when a manuscript has been accepted and when it is actually published?

Maribeth: Many times, it has to do with booked-in-advance illustrators. My book about firefighters was sold in 1999, but won't come out until 2004, due to the prior commitments of the illustrator. It can be an exercise in patience, but I try to move on to new things during the long wait.

Moderator: Do nonfiction books use illustrations, or do they rely on photos?

Maribeth: I've seen both work well.

Moderator: What is a picture book dummy?

Maribeth: Though I have never used this tool myself, many people say that it helps them immensely, calling it the acid test of balance in a story. One easy way to do this is to take your manuscript, and draw a line to indicate the story's halfway point. Then break each of the two sections into halves again, then quarters, then eighths. Consider each segment carefully. Anything wordy? Anything redundant or flowery? Do some surgery until you get 16 segments of relatively balanced text. Then let it sit for a few weeks, come back to it, do some more careful gleaning and prepare a simple dummy, with 8 sheets of paper, folded in half horizontally and then stapled. Cut and paste your text on the pages, to determine if the story fleshes out as a picture book. I would caution anyone about doing this too early in the life of the story. I really believe that overhandling a story early in the process can damage it beyond repair--similar to talking about a story before it's written.

Tricia: In what form does one send in a picture book manuscript to a publisher? Does the author send in a story board with descriptions of what types of pictures you desire? Or does the story get sent in standard sentence/paragraph form?

Maribeth: Unless you are also the illustrator, there is no need for a story board. The manuscript should be sent in in standard typed, double-spaced form. I do like to "chunk" my manuscript, with four lines between defined segments of text, however, this is simply a style I use that helps me differentiate page breaks and balance my manuscript.

Moderator: What about rhyming text in picture books?

Maribeth: It's difficult to do well, but when it works, children love it! If you can write rhyming text without stretching or forcing a rhyme, or on the other hand, using easy words because you know there are lots of words that rhyme with them (guilty as charged!) then you may want to try it. I've written two picture books with rhyming text--because it seemed like the best vehicle to tell the story.

Moderator: Is it better to use human characters or animals with human characteristics?

Maribeth: Hmmm.... in talking to my librarian friends, they tell me that animals with human characteristics make up about 50% of the picture books they carry, and they remain wildly popular. Children have no trouble believing that a little bunny is scared to go to preschool, or has trouble learning to share. Though it depends on the story, I do think anthropomorphized animals are inviting to a young child, but keep in mind that even though you're working with animals, the characterization needs to be just as true and as one editor said, as "real as spit".

Moderator: What are common mistakes writers make when they determine they would like to write a story for young children?

Maribeth: In other words, what mistakes did I make when I first decided to write for young children?! I think I initially talked down to them, writing little stories that were cute and coy. I also tried to include a "message"--and most of those messages were overused and were sure to be regarded by children as yucky tasting medicine--almost too difficult to choke down! I didn't let stories sit and simmer for awhile (though this was by necessity since I was only going to take one year off of teaching. I didn't have time to simmer!)

Another common "think" I see in people who want to write for children is impatience. They want to "crack the code" and get instant results in terms of publishing. I do empathize with this feeling, but sometimes, it can be what gets in the way of really learning the craft of writing for children.

Moderator: Who are some of your favorite picture book authors and why?

Maribeth: How do I choose???? Here's just a few... Rosemary Wells--she is a straight shooter, and knows kids inside and out. I love her EDWARD THE UNREADY series so much I want to shout from the mountaintops!! Russel Hoban--wry dialogue, run-on sentences that work, and an unforgettable character named Frances. Favorite book? A BARGAIN FOR FRANCES. The MISS BINDERGARTEN series, a relatively new series of books that are great read-alouds. Patricia Pollaco--PINK AND SAY. I've read it so many times, but still can't make it through without blubbering.

Moderator: Are tough issues, such as death, divorce, mental illness, etc. appropriate topics for picture book authors to tackle?

Maribeth: If a writer decides to write about one of these subjects, he needs to be very certain of two things. 1) Does he know the developmental stage of his intended audience? 2) Can this subject be handled in a way that does not cause children to despair? While you shouldn't sugar-coat a difficult subject, a writer does need to provide children a message of hope... that good prevails, that grown-ups can help, that time can heal, that love can conquer, and that there is justice in the world. Mr. Rogers was the master at communicating about difficult issues in a reassuring manner.

Moderator: You chose bedwetting as a topic in one of your early books. Why did you feel compelled to write about this common childhood experience?

Maribeth: Mostly because I had a child who wet the bed, and no book to share with him about this subject. It has remained my bestseller.

Moderator: What does your average writing day look like?

Maribeth: When school is in session, I write in the morning, from 9-12, and then work on the business side of things in the afternoon, until school is out. I write probably 3-4 days a week, but when I'm hot and heavy on a story, I'll put in long days, and life gets put on hold a bit.

Moderator: Your books are published by a wide variety of houses--from a small religious press to a publisher like Random House. Was this a purposeful marketing strategy?

Maribeth: Not really, though when I started, I made the decision to submit to smaller houses, thinking that I was more likely to get a personal response. That turned out to be true. Now, however, because I still experience rejection letters, I have my eggs in several baskets. For example, my editor at Penguin bought two stories, and rejected a third, which was then accepted at Candlewick. Occasionally it is confusing, but in unstable times, when publishing houses close, merge, etc., there is something to be said for being at more than one house.

Moderator: How do the experiences of working with a small and large house differ?

Maribeth: It's hard to make generalizations, but small houses generally offer more personal correspondence. They also offer smaller advances, but with fairly similar royalty rates as larger houses. I've also found more predictability in smaller houses--when they say a book will come out is when it comes out, etc. Larger houses do attract bigger name authors and illustrators, and their marketing departments usually have more resources to push a book, at least initially. Overall, I've had great experiences at both.

Moderator: What made you decide not to work with an agent?

Maribeth: Mostly because I like to throw my own dice in this game. I like to submit, and I like to get the news (even the bad news) directly. If I could find an agent that would only step in to negotiate the contracts, I would do that, but otherwise, it's rewarding to do it myself.

Moderator: Are you in a critique group? Why or why not?

Maribeth: I'm in a group that meets once a year for a long, lovely weekend, and exchanges manuscripts, but other than that, I am not. While it could be beneficial, I don't have the time right now to make that kind of commitment.

Nancy: How does one choose a promising publishing house to which to market one's picture book? I've read the advice about analyzing a publisher's list, but so many publishers do picture books, and I can't discern enough pertinent differences between their titles to provide direction. Can you suggest what I should be looking for when I analyze their p.b. list? Or on what other criteria a choice should be made?

Maribeth: I know what you mean, Nancy!! It can be such an overwhelming task. This may be a bit simplistic, but I like to go to a bookstore and read the latest picture books, write down the titles, etc., of a few favorites and then call (yes, call!) the publishing house, ask for marketing and ask who the editor was of that particular title. Most publishing houses are willing to share that information. So, in an efficient use of time, I now have a name, I have a book on which to compliment them sincerely, and I have a direction.

Moderator: What have you learned about the creative process in the 12 years you've been writing for children?

Maribeth: I think what I'm learning is that there is a natural rhythm to the creative process and the more I try to control it, the less creative I am. I recently read a great book, Adrenaline and Stress, by Dr. Archibald Hart. Though the book covers many issues related to our bodies, and our stressed-out society, the chapter that was most helpful to me had to do with the creative process and the role of adrenaline in it. What I discovered is what I've known all along--when I'm relaxed, and able to approach the writing day with an "open hand", creativity is not a problem. But what do I do on a day when there are stressful or difficult issues to deal with? It's a bit of a "duh", but I focus on something less creative. I work on marketing, sending stories out, school visit details, etc. I work on a nonfiction article, or make some calls. I clean. I walk. I call a friend. And it's okay! Now, I do know that there are avoidance techniques that one goes through sometimes to delay that fear of the blank page, but that isn't what I'm talking about. This is more about living and working alongside with the way our Creator made us...instead of trying to fight it, wrestle it to the ground, and force a story from its hand. Maybe I just take longer than most to get it, but this is the thinking that works for me.

Moderator: Thank you so much, Maribeth, for talking with us about the ins and outs of writing picture books. We really appreciate it.

Maribeth: Thanks, Kristi, and all who are interested in writing for children! Good luck to everyone!

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