Instititute of Children's Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"Dealing with Rejection: the Long Fall to the Top" with Margaret Springer

Thursday, April 11, 2002

Moderator: is Kristi Holl, Web Editor for the Institute's web site. Kristi is author of 24 juvenile novels and 150+ articles and has taught writing at the Institute of Children's Literature for l5 years.

Margaret is Margaret Springer is author of three books and dozens of magazine stories and articles. She has won four Pewter Plate awards from HIGHLIGHTS FOR CHILDREN magazine, and teaches local courses and workshops.

Names color coded in blue are audience members who had questions.

Interviews are scheduled for Thursday evenings: 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening, everybody! I'm your moderator, Kristi Holl, and tonight I have with me Margaret Springer who will be talking about "Dealing with Rejection: the Long Fall to the Top." Margaret is author of three books and dozens of magazine stories and articles. She has won four Pewter Plate awards from HIGHLIGHTS FOR CHILDREN. Welcome, Margaret!

Margaret: Hello, everyone! I'm pleased to be here.

Moderator: First of all, what kinds of writing have you had published, Margaret?

Margaret: I've had everything from rebus stories for the very youngest, to pieces for older kids up to teens, but mostly I like writing anything for any age from 2 to 13 or so. I have three books and maybe over a hundred stories and articles published so far.

Moderator: How many rejections did you get before you made your first sale?

Margaret: You know, I don't think I counted! I remember that I decided to write one fall when my kids were in school, and if I hadn't sold anything by the end of the school year, I'd quit. Well, I did sell a story to HIGHLIGHTS, and a poem, I think, to another magazine, so I didn't quit! But I find the thought of counting "rejections" a bit depressing! Probably there were quite a few.

Moderator: At what point did you stop getting rejected? When can a writer reasonably expect to reach that point?

Margaret: I'm smiling :-) I don't think I'll ever stop getting rejected, because that's part of the game. I get fewer rejections than I used to, but when I stop getting any that will probably mean that I stopped writing! ;-)

SaraJ: You mean we can really expect to always get rejected?

Margaret: Well, that word "rejection" is a big obstacle. I prefer to think of "returned manuscript", because that's what it is. And yes, manuscripts can come back for all kinds of reasons.

Moderator: I hear this often from new writers: "I haven't submitted my story because I'm afraid it might get rejected. What should I do?" What's your advice, Margaret?

Margaret: Just know that you're not alone! In fact, you're in very good company when you face those fears. No writer is born published, after all, and even the most famous writers weren't always so. The sure way to fail is to not send your work out, if you're seeking publication, that is.

Moderator: How many rejections are too many? In other words, when should a writer just give up on a manuscript?

Margaret: Good question! After a lot of rejections, it's probably a good idea to analyze what may be happening here. Are you getting similar comments from several editors? Are you still sure this is your very best work, and that it's appropriate to the market you're submitting to? If you really believe in your work, keep going! Send it out as many times as you can. You've probably heard the stories about famous books being rejected. Hans Christian Andersen, Beatrix Potter, Steven King, etc.!

dickman: Do publishers ever provide constructive criticism to writers and a possible opportunity to resubmit?

Margaret: Oh yes, and when you get that kind of feedback [criticism and offer to resubmit], savor it! If they take the time to comment and make suggestions, revise and resubmit to that editor.

DellaRF: When editors write personal, encouraging comments, are they just being nice or do they really see promise in the writer's work and want to see more???

Margaret: This is where it's a good idea to think like an editor! Imagine you have this huge pile of manuscripts on your desk. Their job is to buy good material--best-selling books, or magazine pieces that make readers re-subscribe, so it's in their interest to encourage good writing. Those "nice" comments really do mean something. Take them seriously! :-)

Notepad: Margaret, if I we send a manuscript to a magazine and it's rejected, how soon could we send another piece to that same magazine for consideration?

Margaret: Today! Tomorrow! What matters is that it fits their guidelines. If you keep sending good stuff to that editor, s/he will remember you (believe it or not!) and be impressed by your professionalism.

cindog: I sent in my first manuscript to HIGHLIGHTS; when I sent my query letter they said it was promising, but about a month later after sending the manuscript, they sent it back with a form letter saying "it is not suited for our present needs." Does that mean that the age level was wrong? I wasn't sure what it meant.

Margaret: That's one of those general form letter comments which is hard to define. It could mean any number of things, from "have one in hand on the same topic" or "not quite up to snuff" or "too long" or "too short" or it may just be a personal opinion, and your piece would work better elsewhere.

kamama: I just received my first rejection slip. My first thought was to redo the story. They said they had received too many manuscripts and to resubmit it at a later date. Is that just a nice way of saying they didn't like it, or can I believe it? Also, should a story be redone on the first rejection?

Margaret: First, congratulations on getting the rejection slip! :-) That's the badge of a future published writer! Believe the editor when s/he says to resubmit later. They wouldn't say that if the piece was far off the mark. (They already have enough to read!) As to your second question, how do you feel about that manuscript? If, with the passage of time, you see places where it could be better, by all means revise. But if not, let it stand--and submit to other publications in the meantime.

dickman: If a submitted manuscript is not selected for publication, will the manuscript always be returned to the writer? Who pays the postage for this?

Margaret: The manuscript will be returned, but only if the writer includes an SASE (which means self-addressed, stamped envelope). If you don't include the SASE, your manuscript will be discarded. These days, with costs of postage sometimes higher than photocopying costs, it's OK to request that the editor discard the manuscript if they can't use it. But even then, include a letter-sized SASE for their response.

Notepad: Margaret, is it possible to have an editor like my work and actually suggest and/or request a piece on a specific topic? Does that ever happen?

Margaret: Yes, indeed! When that happens, you can be proud of yourself. You're on your way! In fact, one reason I don't get as many "rejections" as I used to is that exactly that scenario happens. It's a win-win situation.

Honeydog: I've sold numerous short stories and articles for children. Now, I'm trying to market a middle-grade novel for which I've received lots of positive feedback from fellow writers. Still, it seems like rejection after rejection. Should I expend efforts trying to get an agent or just keep trying to market on my own? There is so much conflicting advice on whether a children's writer needs an agent or not.

Margaret: I sympathize! It's not easy getting a novel accepted these days, and as I'm sure you know, it's almost as difficult to find an agent. My advice would be to put your energies into making that book as good as it can get. I realize you're already doing that, but what more could you do? Take an in-depth course? Attend a conference? Study 100 other books in the same field and try to find out what makes yours special? There are no easy answers, but personally I'd rather concentrate on writing, writing, writing, and have faith that a good book WILL eventually find a home. Was it "Gone with the Wind" that was turned down 25 times?

red2: Currently I am saving my rejections. I file them with the ms. Would it be more "therapeutic" to throw them away? It's like hanging on to negative feelings about my work.

Margaret: I love your question about saving rejections. I file them with the manuscript, as you do, though I prefer not to count them too often! I've heard several neat ideas about what to do with them. Use them for wallpaper; make a lampshade; create a cat toy... You get the idea! Just don't take them too seriously. They're part of the game.

Notepad: Margaret, if a manuscript is 'held for possible future publication,' how long is it reasonable to wait? Should we wait as long as it takes, or resubmit somewhere else after a year?

Margaret: That open-ended phrase seems a little unfair. I would politely inquire how long they intend to keep it. If they can't give some ballpark guess, I'd decide how long I would let them keep it, perhaps 6 months or a year or whatever you're comfortable with, and then notify them that after that time you will submit elsewhere.

barbking: Margaret, I have enjoyed your stories in HIGHLIGHTS. Do you have any good advice (beyond the usual) on submitting to them?

Margaret: Thank you! I wish I knew the magic key to publication in HIGHLIGHTS. They still "reject" my pieces from time to time. They really do like fresh and funny stories, and I know it's not easy to know what's fresh when you don't see the others that they see. For nonfiction, they require articles which are thoroughly researched, not rewritten encyclopedia articles or top-of-head pieces. But that is a tough market, and it brings me to another little nugget of advice I'd like to share. That is: start at the top and work down! By which I mean, try the top market of the group you're considering because you won't know how good you are if you start at the bottom. Of course, you can expect rejections, but I think persistence and courage are as important as talent sometimes.

Moderator: What if an editor rejects my manuscript with a letter that says it's not right for his magazine and you know it's perfect for that publication? Is it all right to write a letter telling him he might want to consider making a change?

Margaret: Well, I'm not sure I'd assume I know what's good for the publication. I wouldn't argue with an editor, in any case. They have their job, and we have ours. (Of course, it's okay to think mean thoughts privately! Just don't make them public!)

kamama: Someone mentioned keeping the rejection slips as proof to the IRS for business deductions. Is that true?

Margaret: Yes, anything that helps prove you're seriously trying to publish is good to keep. Good point!

Granny Janny: I sold my very first submission ever. I think I got too sure of myself, and I received 4 rejections in a row after that. Should I resubmit to a publisher not quite as large as the Cricket Group?

Margaret: Congratulations! Again, I think of "famous" writers: Danielle Steele, who sold one book and then didn't sell the next five! It depends what you're sending out, regardless of what happened to the previous manuscripts. Put your piece in the middle of a pile of Cricket publications. Read them all, one after the other, with yours in the middle of the pile. That may give you a good idea of whether this is the right target market.

Notepad: Margaret, I've heard a little about sending postcard type response cards that the editor can choose his/her response; do you have any comments or suggestions on this tool?

Margaret: It's a personal preference. I tend not to, maybe out of laziness and not getting the postcards organized!

paige: When e-mailing a status inquiry, is it advisable to address the e-mail to the editor to whom you sent the ms. even though you do not have their personal e-mail address--just a general one to the publisher?

Margaret: I'd be leery of e-mailing an editor unless they mention in the guidelines that it's okay to do so. I know that some don't mind a status inquiry, but do be sure of this. And use the e-mail address that's given. Editorial offices are overloaded with e-mails as well as paper correspondence.

dickman: Are editors more likely to open their mail now that it has been awhile since we have last heard of mail being infected with Anthrax?

Margaret: I think so. That was a traumatic time for all of us. I've heard, though, that it's a good idea to make your package as professional as possible--i.e. no handwritten address or handwritten return address; but of course do include a return address.

DellaRF: In response to a query and the first manuscript page, an editor once wrote, "This is fun, but I couldn't quite find the emotional connection to the material." Can you translate that?

Margaret: When you read something wonderful, it stirs you emotionally in some way, right? You want to laugh, or cry, or you nod in recognition, or you feel that you're right there in that situation. That emotional resonance is what that editor was talking about, I think. Perhaps s/he found the writing a little formal or detached. That's my guess--the good news is that "This is fun"! Don't give up on it.

Moderator: Form rejection letters don't give any information as to why the manuscript was rejected. Why don't editors give more feedback on manuscripts? Is it only a time issue?

Margaret: Partly it's a time issue, and partly--let's face it--they're in the business of publishing, not teaching writing. I do think some of them could make more effort to scribble two words, or tick off something on a preprinted list, but the fact is that many are overwhelmed with manuscripts, so some just get bounced back. I let myself wallow in self-pity, grieve, think nasty thoughts about the editors, etc., for 24 hours. Then I pick myself up and send it to the next one on the list!

Moderator: What does a "rejection" letter really mean?

Margaret: It means they don't have a place for that manuscript in their publication or publishing program. Nothing more, nothing less. Could be all kinds of reasons! I once had a letter rejected by a magazine, and then shortly afterwards, it was accepted by another magazine which I hadn't sent it to! Seems one magazine editor was married to another, and it got passed across the breakfast table! One can never predict what will happen, good or bad! ;-)

Moderator: What exactly happens to a manuscript in an editor's office when you send it in?

Margaret: First, it's opened and logged in, usually by someone at a secretarial level. Then it's routed to readers for their evaluation. Sometimes there's a "first reader" who weeds out what is clearly unpublishable, before it goes to the others. Yes, I know that makes all of us writers nervous, but the fact is that there are some submissions which are totally unsuitable (unintelligible language, totally wrong genre for the house, etc.) The rest get read, carefully. Often photocopies are made, so that several readers can read the piece. This is just one reason for the passage of time! Eventually there are meetings to decide on the manuscripts which have survived the cut. Of course this is very general, but I do know that submissions are taken seriously, and your work will generally be given a fair reading.

red2: Sometimes I have gotten rejections in record breaking time. It makes you wonder if the mss. were actually even read. Comment?

Margaret: Me too! Usually that's when I find I sent the right horse to the wrong stable, i.e., something was too long, or off topic, or for some other reason wasn't right for them. Or the publisher calls a sudden moratorium on considering manuscripts. I do think everything gets looked at, but I can't say that they always read every word.

Moderator: Here are two similar questions, which I'll post together...

dickman: Is it necessary to have a subscription to every periodical that you submit to?

nell: Is it a good idea to subscribe to the magazines you'd like to be published in to get the feel of them in your 'blood'?

Margaret: Great questions! The important thing is to be as familiar as you can be with the magazine. The cost adds up if you subscribe, but of course that's ideal. What I do is haunt the library and read them there. Also, these days many magazines have websites with issues posted, plus guidelines for writers, so it's easier to be "up" on magazines than it used to be.

Douglas DeVries: Do you write with a market in mind or write and then select a market? What criteria do you use for selecting your markets?

Margaret: Both, at different times. Sometimes some element of a story "sparkles" and I start writing, then look for a market later. But in the back of my mind, since I've been writing for a while, I probably have a sense of appropriate length etc. With nonfiction I usually want to write about a topic that interests me, so again I research at least, and maybe write, before honing in on a market. However, there are times when it's fun to browse in the market listings, and some idea will present itself. But I can honestly say that I've never written about something that didn't interest me, just to make a sale. As to your second question, about criteria, I look for publications which publish the kind of story/article I enjoy writing. That's obvious, I guess, but I'll also confess that I do look at payment and prefer the higher-paying ones too!

paige: Is it a good idea to have all mss. critiqued before sending them out, or should one hope that if an editor likes a piece they will suggest any necessary revision?

Margaret: That's a tough question, and another of those "yes and no's"! I belong to a critiquing group which meets once a month, and I find it really helpful. Having other eyes looking over something can spot obvious flaws. That said, it's really our work, and if it's honestly the best we can do, then it's okay to submit without any other opinions. I can't emphasize enough the value of taking courses, going to conferences, reading about writing, learning our trade. That way you'll have more confidence in your own appraisal of your writing, and your writing will never stagnate.

nell: Just yesterday I queried a magazine and today got a positive response to write the article and submit it on spec. Do I need to respond, saying I will, or can I just go ahead now, write it and submit it when ready?, i.e. is a response from me expected/good manners, or overkill?

Margaret: Presumably this was by e-mail (postal mail not being quite that speedy!) so I'd suggest a very brief acknowledgment, letting them know when you'll have it to them. That way they know you got the message. But keep it VERY brief.

Moderator: What if several publishers have rejected the same piece?

Margaret: Then it's time to look at what the responses are. If you've been getting the same kinds of comments from several of them, then it may be time to take that seriously and see if you can work on those revisions, if you agree with them. If you're getting no comments at all, it may also be time to get some outside feedback, from someone whose opinion you trust.

Moderator: How can a writer lower his chances for rejection?

Margaret: I wish there were some easy, magic key! Sorry to say, it's just hard work: writing, writing, writing, and learning your trade. That, plus knowing the ground rules for submitting and marketing. Follow your heart, and be the best writer you can be. No one can expect more than that.

Moderator: It's depressing to find a rejection in the mail. Any tips on dealing with this?

Margaret: Well, a sense of humor helps! As I said earlier, I let myself feel miserable for 24 hours. But I also have a collection of cartoons near my desk. One, for example, has Snoopy reading a rejection letter, which ends with "To save time, we are enclosing two rejection slips; one for this story, and one for the next story you send to us!" Oh my... We can all commiserate!

Moderator: I think Snoopy and I wrote for the same magazine! Margaret, are there ever GOOD rejections?

Margaret: Yes, I think so! There are the rejections that say, in effect, not this one but we love your writing so keep sending to us. And there are those wonderful, rare, long letters from editors with helpful comments. If you get one of those, or any comments, revise if you can and then fire it back addressed to that specific editor.

Moderator: More and more today, I am hearing from writers who even have trouble getting rejected. Manuscripts seem to be disappearing into publishing black holes more and more. Even if we get rejected, we'd at least like to know the fate of our submissions. Any ideas? Is it ever okay to telephone or e-mail an editor and ask for an update, when you've gone the traditional routes?

Margaret: I think it's only fair to be told the fate of our manuscript, and I agree this is becoming a problem more and more. I don't phone or e-mail, but I do write a letter politely inquiring, and stating that if I haven't heard by X I will be submitting elsewhere. Of course there's always the chance that a long delay means good news, but even then it doesn't hurt to check. The other thing I'd say is to have lots of manuscripts out there, so all your hopes and dreams aren't tied up in one piece. Better to write the next one in the meantime!

dickman: Are some publishers so poorly thought of in the field that it is a black mark for a writer to be published by that particular publisher?

Margaret: I'd rely on the market guides here. Publishers who are dishonest, or whatever are rare but they are out there; and they tend to be dropped from listings when the word gets around. I don't think that reflects on a writer, though.

MMR: Do you have any stories about acceptance/rejection by agents?

Margaret: Well, I was lucky because after my first book, a picture book, an agent approached me. But we parted company amicably after 5 years or so, and I've been doing my own marketing, by preference, since. I know good agents are hard to find.

DellaRF: Any advice on increasing the odds of breaking in with a picture book? I know it's extremely competitive, but I've heard when editors change houses, they're more "open" to writers (assuming the ms. is worthy). Any other words of wisdom? If we're rejected by a magazine, but a new editor joins their staff, can we resubmit the rejected piece to this editor?

Margaret: New editors, new publishers, new magazines, new agents--these are all good bets for a writer, because they're looking for good stuff. So go for it!! I wish you all the very best of courage, faith in yourself, persistence--yes, and some good luck too! :-)

Moderator: I'm sorry to have to interrupt here--this is a discussion that could go on all night, I think! But we're out of time. Margaret, thank you so much for coming tonight and lending us your encouragement and experiences with one of a writer's biggest headaches. We appreciate your insights!

Margaret: It's been a genuine pleasure! Thanks for asking me.

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks when Jennifer Reed will be giving us "Advice from an Online Editor." Jennifer is the editor of Wee Ones E-magazine, an online children's magazine for kids ages 3-8. She has published over a l00 stories and articles for children in both print magazines and online. She will talk about the submissions process and what it's like writing and editing online, as well as the future of online publishing. And now, good night, everyone!

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