Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this interview with Kathryn Lay, and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site.

Interviews are held every other Thursday evening for two hours, beginning at 9 CANADA/
Atlantic Time, 8 Eastern Time, 7 Central Time, 6 Mountain Time, and 5 Pacific Time.

Mel: At last we've been able to arrange for Kathryn Lay, with her busy schedule, to be our Chat Guest for this evening. I have been hearing praises for Kathryn for many years now, as a writer, teacher, and speaker on the topic of writing for children. I have also run across Kathryn Lay on discussion boards around the Internet. And I feel it a real privilege to have her here with us tonight. One reason for Kathryn's great success as a children's writer is her outstanding expertise at marketing her work. We are about to learn her secrets of the most effective marketing. THANK YOU for coming tonight, Kathryn, it's our great opportunity to have you here!

Kathryn: Thanks so much for inviting me. I'm really honored. Howdy from Texas!

Mel: Kathryn, were either of your parents writers, or how did each or either encourage you in your growing-up years to become a writer?

Kathryn: My Mom is a big reader and always encouraged me to read as a kid. When I started writing, in 3rd grade, she was very encouraging and proud of me.

Mel: Did you write right away in grade school, junior high and high school?

Kathryn: I wrote a story in 3rd grade that my teacher put a silver star on it, and hung it up for parent/teacher night. I was thrilled at her response and kept writing. I loved making up stories and was much better at verbalizing myself on paper than in speech. I wrote all through junior high and then got side-tracked with friends and activities in high school.

Mel: What did you major in in college that lent itself to your writing?

Kathryn: Nothing really. I took business courses and secretarial courses to please my dad, who said writing would never support me.

Mel: When did you begin writing professionally, Kathryn?

Kathryn: After college, I married my college sweetheart and got a job as a secretary. My husband knew of my love for writing and encouraged me to get back into it. So, I wrote a Bambi-rip-off story and sent it to Redbook. My first huge marketing mistake. But, three months later I sold a religious short story and three poems.

Mel: Tell us, HOW important is a supportive spouse to a writer's writing career?

Kathryn: I think it's very important. My husband has been a major encouragement and supporter. He understands my down times, the rejections and is there with a big congrats whether the check is a few dollars or thousands.

Mel: HA, rings VERY true! You mentioned your first writing sale. Can you expand on that, please? And what was your first sale for CHILDREN?

Kathryn: My first writing sale was a personal experience, nonfiction article to a church Sunday school take home paper. It was about our work with Hmong refugee children. My first children's writing sale was a nonfiction piece about a little girl in a traveling circus that sold to U*S*Kids and Children's Playmate.

Mel: I don't think we've ever had occasion here to talk much about anthology sales. How do they come about? How many magazine and anthology pieces have you sold?

Kathryn: I've sold about 1100 magazine and anthology pieces. I just sold my 75th anthology piece last week. Some have been fiction and some nonfiction. My first were to Chicken Soup, then I started hearing online about other anthologies, kind of chicken-soup copiers, then more and more. But when I heard from a friend that Bruce Coville was looking for unicorn stories for an anthology, being a lover of fantasy, I went to work writing one and sold it to him.

Mel: ELEVEN HUNDRED sales?!?! That sounds like a DREAM to us! Are they the result of just plain HARD work and LONG hours?

Kathryn: Yes, and obsessiveness with writing and marketing. I wrote while I worked and every free moment I could (dentist office, waiting for haircuts, etc.). I kept sending stuff out and finding places to resell my writing. But I had also just adopted a baby not long after that, and later homeschooled her, but still tried to keep 30 to 60 pieces in the mail at all times.

Mel: WOW, I stand AMAZED at you, Kathryn—my writing hat is OFF, OFF, OFF to you, Ma'am!

Kathryn: How kind. I just really love writing and selling it.

Kathryn: It really has varied over the years. When my daughter was young, I wrote when she napped, late at night, early in morning. Then when she was being schooled I wrote while she did her seatwork and in the evenings. Now I write while she's in school 3 days a week and early in mornings. I save marketing for evenings or when I'm really too tired to write.

Mel: How many HOURS a day, on average, do you write/market and such?

Kathryn: If I'm at my peak and not much else is going on, I try to write 2 to 3 hours and market 1 hour. I often grab it in one 1- to 2-hour segment, then a few 15- to 30-minute segments.

Kathryn: Hmm, well, in general I keep records of what I've sold, when and where it's sold. I have a three-ring binder with a page for each article, story, or essay. Then I make a list on the back of market ideas, with the best up front. As I send them out, I mark it off and move to the next one, which helps me not let things sit too long before going out again. Then when it sells, I write that info down and put it in another notebook. After publication, I make a list of places to resell it and start again.

Mel: Do you keep a lot in the mail at one time, Kathryn?

Kathryn: Not as much as I used to, I'm more specific with marketing these days and spending more time with promoting my children's novel. But, I try to keep 20 to 40 things in the mail at all times, not counting contest entries and anything my agent sends out.

Mel: YIKES, your numbers are STAGGERING!

Kathryn: yes, I do. I like writing for them, they buy a LOT of stuff (consider 3 to 5 pieces per issue, an issue a week). Some have themes and I write frequently for them.

Kathryn: No, I've only had my agent for the last 3½ years. But, I credit her with my book sale. I did all my own short sales myself.

Mel: How many years did you write magazine pieces before your first book?

Kathryn: I sold my first magazine piece in 1989. My book was sold in 2003.

Kathryn: I haven't written for Cobblestone (yet), I'm not as good at children's nonfiction. But I've written several times for Pockets.

Kathryn: A little of both. Most often with fiction, it's the idea first, then I search for a magazine. But I also study magazines a lot, study anthology wants, and work on ideas that will fit what they need or use.

Kathryn: Are you asking if it's best to query an agent when you are a new writer? It never hurts to try, I think. It is difficult to find an agent these days, as more people are wanting them. But if you work hard on your book and feel it's ready, then query someone. Try to meet an agent when possible at a conference or through another writer. I was recommended to mine from an online acquaintance, who I'm forever grateful to.

Mel: Kathryn, how should a writer APPROACH an agent, besides a recommendation?

Kathryn: Very professionally. Agents often take on writers nowadays who already have a book sold. I think I got mine because of the recommendation and because of my magazine sells. She asked for a resume and samples of published pieces, which I had lots to choose from.

Kathryn: Yes, an amazing one. The group began over 15 years ago, I believe, and I've been there about 14 years. Twelve of us, off and on, meet every Tuesday from 11 to 3:00 to read, critique, and encourage.

Mel: Kathryn, is it UNusual for ONE critique group to stay together so LONG, and so faithfully?

Kathryn: I think so. I think you really have to work at it. Be a "group," not a dictatorship. But have rules that everyone agrees on. And be both honest and helpful in critique, as well as kind and encouraging. We've definitely become friends beyond critique buddies.

Kathryn: Yes. I used to keep 60 to 100, but I spend more time on the books nowadays than the short pieces. Many of my short piece sales lately are reprints to anthologies and such.

Kathryn: I don't with my magazine stuff, I just figure it'll take awhile. I give them a reasonable time and follow up, then maybe send it elsewhere. My agent handles all my books now, but she sim subs sometimes, though she generally targets a specific editor for a specific project.

Mel: Are agents willing OR loathe to handle magazine pieces?

Kathryn: I think there are very few agents who handle magazine pieces. They don't get enough money out of them. Compare 15% of maybe $25 for a children's magazine piece to 15% of $5,000 and up for a book.

Kathryn: Yes, I think most of my resells have been Sunday school papers, anthologies, and testing groups. Yes, I've sometimes sold the same short story or essay to six or more Sunday school papers of various denominations. If a story isn't too specific to a denomination, it's a great opportunity for reselling.

Kathryn: I sent only my children's stuff and the best ones, such as from Boys' Life, Cricket, Pockets. I also sent a copy of the story in the Bruce Coville anthology, and she asked for a few partials of three chapters of several book projects, including the one, Crown Me!, that she sold so far.

Mel: Kathryn, are agents AND/OR editors impressed by MAGAZINE sales?

Kathryn: I think they are to a certain extent. This way they can tell that there are other editors who liked your work enough to buy it, that you can probably rewrite, and that you are making an effort to get your name out there. You make contacts with magazine readers, who later will buy your books hopefully.

Mel: That last is a VERY good point—I've never thought about that till this moment! THANK YOU! How important is your willingness to REwrite to an editor?

Kathryn: VERY important. Books are rewritten more than written. Sometimes stories too. I rewrote the story for Bruce Coville three times, once because the publisher changed and wanted a younger approach to the stories. I rewrote a story twice now for Highlights For Children that they are considering. Cricket always asks for a few rewrites and they always have bought the stories when I've done so. With my book, I had two major rewrites and a couple nitpicky ones. I rewrote a few times for my agent too. She had incredible insight to suggest my book would be better in first person than in third as I had it. She was right and it sold first time out afterward. I was willing to rewrite for my editors (one left and I had another before it was published), but I also disagreed on some points and won.

Mel: Here's a compliment:

Kathryn: Hey thanks. It's been a big seller. ;)

Mel: Tell us, WHICH seems more important to YOU, ORGANIZATION or TIME SPENT WRITING?

Kathryn: Wow, good and tough question. I think time spent writing is top priority. My organization is more knowing what I have available and keeping track of market possibilities, not in having a neat office (my gosh, you should see my desk!). Writing time is way more important. Getting new ideas. Those types of things are what I talk about more in my writing book and when I speak on organization.

Kathryn: I do use the Writer's Market, the Children’s Writers & Illustrators Market, and the Christian Market Guide a lot, but I also get most of my sales lately from online information. From people I know who send me markets, from info I learn on writing listservs I'm on, from writing newsletters, and from editors who contact ME first after reading my work in places or finding my Web Site.

Kathryn: Seek, Live, The Lookout, Encounter, On the Line. I used to write for many others who don't exist now or don't take freelance stuff.

Kathryn: I'm not a poet I'm afraid, but I'd think Highlights (if you don't mind selling All Rights) or the Cricket Group. And the Better Health Institute magazines (U*S*Kids, Children's Playmate, and so on).

Kathryn: Back in the time when I kept that much out, yes, it was enormously expensive. Most of my writing checks went to my "hobby" of writing. But now, I'd say 75% of everything that I send out is through e-mail. It's wonderful! Faster, and saves on postage. Even after my first two small sales to Woman's Day, the other 12 were through e-mail. My agent and I work through e-mail, though she sends the manuscripts to publishers via regular snailmail.

Mel: Here are two related questions in a row, Kathryn:

Kathryn: If there is nothing in the contract that says I have to wait, such as 30 to 60 days or sometimes longer, I send it out almost immediately after the publication date. That's why I keep a list of resell possibilities for each piece once it sells. I just print off a fresh copy with Reprint Rights in the corner, or same with sending it e-mail. The only thing you must do is make sure that you only sold First Rights before, and that the place you are sending it to next will buy One-Time or Reprint Rights.

Kathryn: If you sell First Rights, you can resell it again after publication to a magazine or anthology that buys Reprint or One-Time Rights. Several of the Sunday school papers I've sold to bought One-Time Rights, so I could resell them immediately to a noncompeting denomination. Some anthologies will restrict you from selling to another anthology for a specific time, maybe a year after publication, but they don't mind magazine resells.

Kathryn: To have them on your resume, they are thought highly of. And, if you have a story you really don't see another market for. But mostly, for the prestige of it. All the pieces I sold to Cricket were for First Rights. Now that they want All Rights, I doubt I'll send anything else there again.

Mel: Kathryn, have you heard of magazines that ask to buy REprint Rights even BEFORE a piece has been published FIRST?

Kathryn: Not until recently. I got a contract for a publication that wanted Reprint Rights for a piece that I told them had not been published. Then they later sent me another contract when I asked about it stating First Rights, though the pay didn't change. Generally though, a magazine won't raise the pay unless you send them the piece before it's been published, which is a no-no if you’ve already sold First Rights.

Mel: Is asking for Reprint Rights BEFORE it's been published a way to get material more cheaply?

Kathryn: Possibly. It may mean that they are really saying they buy One-Time rights. Those are generally cheaper.

Kathryn: I rarely write that many at the same time. But I always have several stories, articles, queries in various processes. I'm writing a new novel as well as doing rewrite on a couple old ones. When I say 20 to 40 things, I also mean query letters. I do have "idea days." ;)

Mel: I LOVE your "Idea Days"! (-:}

Kathryn: Gosh, that's scary. About 38 years, off and on. Since I was 9.

Kathryn: Both. I edit in the beginning on the computer, after I've read a chapter to my critique group or go back after a day of writing. But when it's had a couple rewrites, I print it out and check for overall problems in plot and dialogue and character, as well as grammar and spelling and such.

Kathryn: Unfortunately, yes. It's harder to find many magazines that don't. The Cricket Group used not to. Sunday school papers don't. Many of my stories for kids are currently reselling to a group who has asked me to write/sell reprints of stories to them for school kid testing purposes.

Kathryn: Yes, for state requirements and for reading programs that go by specific reading levels, not just grade levels. They tend to be specific. Sometimes they are for teacher booklets like you’ll find in a store for teachers or homeschoolers.

Mel: Is there any special way to get in contact with publishers who publish testing material?

Kathryn: I'm not sure. So far, they've come to me. I did read in a SCBWI newsletter once about a group looking for stories several years ago, and I sold them three stories that I hadn't been able to sell elsewhere. They bought All Rights, but paid well.

Mel: That's a GOOD recommendation for joining the SCBWI, even just to get their newsletter full of ideas! Kathryn, do you sell more nonfiction or fiction? More adult writing or kids writing?

Kathryn: I tend to sell more adult nonfiction because the market is bigger. My biggest love, though, is kid's fiction, both in short form and as a book. I sell less adult nonfiction lately because I'm really trying to focus on the kid's stuff.

Kathryn: Magazine or book? I think it's longer nowadays. Magazine reasonable is two or three months, though it often takes longer for an acceptance, less for rejection. If I were marketing a book without an agent (and I do on some of my stuff she doesn't care to represent), I would give it three months, then send a follow-up letter, then another month, and another letter, then send it elsewhere, while being polite all the while.

Mel: Do you recall the LONGEST a magazine ever held onto a manuscript of yours before accepting OR rejecting it?

Kathryn: Yes, very well. I sent a piece to Guideposts Magazine. After 6 months, I sent a follow-up. After another month, I sent another one. Then they called to say they must have lost it and would I resend. I got irritated and sent it elsewhere. Eight months later, the editor at Guideposts called to say she found my manuscript on her desk and wanted to buy it. Luckily, I hadn't sold it elsewhere yet.

Mel: A GREAT and in a way, encouraging, Anecdote—THANKS, Kathryn!

Kathryn: No, not at all! We were all unpublished in the beginning. Now, everyone but two people I think, maybe just one now, have published books. We've really come a long ways. Two of our members won the Delacorte Young Adult novel award; many have had their books named to award lists; many have sold multiple books.

Mel: Is it typical for a person who joins a critique group for the FIRST time to be wary, even defensive about their writing? And what does a GOOD critique group do about that?

Kathryn: It depends on the writer. We don't have new members much anymore, we're too full. But when we did have lots of visitors, we often got brand-new writers who were very defensive about their writing and really didn't want critique, only a pat on the back. We don't allow people to defend critiques, because they can't do that to an editor. After a couple times, people with that attitude rarely come back. They are sure that their writing needs absolutely no changes or help and won't be told otherwise.

Mel: Too bad for them, but GOOD going for that critique group of yours!

Kathryn: Wow, that's a great question. For me, I do enjoy the variety. But I also see how well people do who focus on one specific area and do it well. They get their name known by readers, such as J. K. Rowling and Bruce Coville, who focus on fantasy. But also, there are writers who've done very well with branching out, such as Jane Yolen and many others. I often think I should focus all my time on my children's books, but I need the acceptances of the smaller pieces to keep me going. And, the money. I think it's really up to the writer, as to whether they can focus on more than one type of writing or not.

Mel: Here is a GOOD basic question:

Kathryn: All Rights means that you have sold the right to that publication forever. You cannot resell that piece again unless they grant your rights back to you. In nonfiction, you can still use that topic and rewrite a totally different article from the one you sold All Rights to. But in fiction, you can't use that same plot and characters again.

Kathryn: It's not as important as me sending stuff out, getting out there where the markets are. But it certainly has increased my name out there. People look at my Web site and sometimes buy my writing book or Crown Me!. They take my writing courses because of seeing that I teach. And several editors have asked me to write for them after finding my Web site. I also have it listed in the biography of my novel and kids and teachers have written me fan letters that way. And I've had writing groups find me and invite me to speak at their conferences.

Mel: Do you teach ONLINE writing courses, Kathryn?

Mel: What is the weirdest/most interesting writing sale you've made?

Kathryn: I think when I sold a short story last year to a coffee company. It's not the Coffeehouse for Writers that I just mentioned. Offhand, I can't remember the title of the place, I think it was Story House Coffee. But I sold a flash fiction short story that appeared on their coffee can label. And got paid for it as well as free coffee (which my husband loved).

Mel: HA, I'd love that too!

Kathryn: When I get a new WM, I spend an evening sitting down with a highlighter and post-it notes. I go through all the sections I would be interested in writing for and look for new magazines and ones that have been around. I highlight titles of ones I want to write for, new editors, names of old ones and such. Then I put post-it note tabs at the top of those pages. Later I add the information to my box of 3X5 cards of markets (which are separated by index cards such as Religious, Children's, Essays, etc.).

Mel: (-:} Here's a writer with GREAT determination:

Kathryn: LOL, that's true. It’s sad and that's why magazines continue to buy All Rights. But sometimes, you just want to break in, right?

Kathryn: Maybe problems with formatting; but other than that, I really do love them.

Kathryn: Oh, most definitely payment on acceptance. I hate payment on publication. Besides the obvious that I get paid faster on acceptance, I also think publications who pay on publication get away with buying way more than they will actually use sometimes. They have no financial commitment to you or your piece. I sell to those that pay on publication very rarely, just as with those that buy All Rights.

Mel: Here are two CLOSELY related questions:

Kathryn: Good questions again. I found mine by joining my local SCBWI chapter. I got involved, got to know people, and visited a critique group. Turns out it was and is the best one, but if it hadn't been, I could've looked for another. If there isn't one in your area, start one. Put an ad up at the library or college. But have a list of rules ahead of time, such as no defending and a specific amount of time to read (we do 10 minutes reading, 10 minutes critiquing). If there is a group farther away you might visit once to see how they do it and then start one yourself.

Mel: Kathryn, I REALLY think that YOU alone, even, would make a critique group "go goodly"!

Kathryn: How kind of you to say, Mel, but I really am very amazed at the critique group I'm in. They are all incredible and I'm lucky to be a part of them.

Mel: A GOOD critique group is real GOLD, isn't it!

Kathryn: Definitely!

Kathryn: On average, probably only once. But several have sold more than three times, and a few have sold eight or ten times, especially religious or inspirational essays, which have sold to both magazines and anthologies.

Mel: Kathryn, who are your favorite children’s writers?

Kathryn: I've always been partial to Bruce Coville, Jane Yolen, and big time to the humor of Gordon Korman. I would like to be him when I grow up. (Though he's tons younger than me). J

Mel: Here's a clever questioner bringing us back to important basics:

Mel: I have to add here, as I do often, that SCBWI really gave me my start in writing for children. I LOVE them!

Kathryn: I always do. You don't really have to with fiction, as long as you have your contact information on the manuscript, but I do. With nonfiction, I give a one- or two-sentence teaser for the piece and maybe research information for fiction, I don't say a lot other than maybe something interesting about where the idea came from. I always list that I have a book published and 1100 stories and articles, then I list a few of the bigger publications to impress. LOL.

Kathryn: I am an obsessive scheduler with all my stuff. I schedule my do lists for weeks at a time, and specifically for five days at a time. I always include writing time of one to three hours, but the time depends on what I have going on those days. I do still read about writing craft, not as much as before, but definitely from children's authors I admire at their Web sites or in Writer's Digest and The Writer. I have a "Marketing Day'" every two weeks, where I set aside a day to just market and do it guilt-free from writing time. I use it to read up on writing, to find new markets, to get query letters and manuscripts ready to mail, to e-mail submissions. That was one of my most popular writing articles that sold first online, then I was contacted by The Writer to reprint it in their January, 2003 issue.

Mel: Kathryn, are you a FAST worker? Does speed of work make a lot of difference, or will we "snails" get as much done in the long run?

Kathryn: I do tend to be a fast writer. I write first drafts pretty fast once I know where the piece is going, especially short nonfiction and fiction. Then I rewrite a bit and send it out. I have writer friends who are very slow and who rewrite along the way. They still do well, but definitely don't sell as much and will admit that being that way slows down their productivity and sales. On books, I'm much slower.

Mel: How long, for example, does it take you to write the "average" magazine story?

Kathryn: It really depends on what it is. Once I have an idea for an essay or a how-to type piece, I can do it pretty quickly, in 30 minutes or a couple of hours or couple of days. But if it requires research, interviews, or is a major feature-type article, I generally query first, then start doing the planning and researching and interviewing. It may take me a couple of weeks or more. My biggest piece for Woman's Day was on a variety of safety issues and took two months (they gave me three) to do interviews and research and put it all together in a readable form.

Mel: You ARE fast, Ma'am--a "motorcycle writer"! I can see that by your undercutting even the publisher’s given deadline.

Kathryn: I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. You mean more than one paper or something that will sell to a larger magazine? The first would be to make sure it's moral and deals with an "issue" kids deal with, but isn't geared toward a specific denomination. One story I resold had to do with a kid's honesty, finding a friend's mom's wallet and returning it. Another dealt with lying. As far as overall, think of your own life as a kid, or your kids or their friends or your friends’ kids. What are their interests, desires, dreams, fears, hopes, frustrations? I come up with a title or a character often, then think until a story hits. Sometimes it's mostly about a character and his or her needs. Sometimes it's a "theme," such as anger or losing a friend or teasing others. Sometimes it's a plot such as with Crown Me!, with a kid wanting to get into politics and becoming King of Fifth Grade for two weeks.

Mel: WELL balanced explanation, Kathryn!

Kathryn: I definitely would think so. Kids love animals and nature stories. My husband is an amateur storm chaser, and I like to write weather related fiction and nonfiction. But look at Highlights and many of the children's magazines today. You'll see pieces on nature. Parents love their kids to learn and kids love to learn in a fun way.

Kathryn: Most of the time, but I only list primary sources. Such as when I did several safety issue pieces (one thing led to another for a variety of magazines), I went to places like Red Cross online and Safe Kids and FEMA and such. If I know an expert, I'll interview them in person. For instance, I interviewed the dad of one of my daughter's friends who is a spelunker for a short story and later an article on caving.

Kathryn: I love doing school visits and am just getting into them. Finding them is the hard part if you want ones that will pay you. I do them both for book sales and for income. Generally, the income tends to be better than the sales, but sometimes they can be good for sales. And, getting books into a school library is great, as well as letting kids know about you and your book. The biggest part is planning a program and getting and keeping the kids and teachers interested.

Kathryn: So far, only editors have asked for those. I generally just include a list of Web sites I've visited, people I've interviewed, or books I've quoted from. Most editors prefer the interview-type research.

Kathryn: My critique group is made up of children's writers, but some also do other things, too. The majority of our reading time is devoted to children's works though. I used to belong to a big general group, but when I got more involved with children’s writing, I found they didn't have a clue about what is allowed, what is good, what works and doesn't work. Even in my own group, when I read fantasy, many don't know what can be done because they don't read it. I'm at the point now where I rarely worry about anyone reading my adult stuff or my short stories, I can generally sell a majority of them on my own. But I think it's important to find people of like mind, mainly because it's hard to critique something you don't read. I could never critique western or romance writing.

Kathryn: Originally, I just printed it out on my computer, put it in a pretty folder, and sold it for a few dollars when I spoke to writers groups or such. Then, a small press editor who publishes many of my articles on writing and loves my stuff, offered to publish it. So, we split the profits. The paperback version looks so much nicer than what I did. It looks professional and I can take it to conferences I speak at and such with pride.

Mel: It seems like you've turned two hours into two minutes, Kathryn. You are such a fount of knowledge about writing for children, and about marketing our writing for children. It seems like we've barely gotten started, and it's time to end our chat already. We SO appreciate your coming tonight! And since we've only just gotten started, may I ask if you would be willing to return to our chat room sometime in the not-too-distant future? I can tell by the questions that we ALL would really like the opportunity to chat with you again about children's writing and marketing.

Kathryn: Yes, I'd be glad to. I love doing this and giving any helpful information when possible. What great questions!!!

Mel: The first Thursday in August, August 4, our Chat Guest for our next Sizzling Summer Guest Chat will be Linda Crew. Linda comes highly recommended as the author of middle-grade books, including Some Time Passing, Fire on the Wind, Nekomah Creek Christmas, Someday I'll Laugh About This, Children of the River, Brides of Eden, Ordinary Miracles, and A Heart for Any Fate: Westward to Oregon: 1845, historical fiction and winner of the Stevens Prize. Said Bill Andrus of Northwest Books in The East Oregonian: "Crew, aided by extensive research into Oregon Trail journals and documents, historical photos and a personal trip along the route, skillfully brings the experience of pioneer families to life....Crew's style, while accessible to young readers, is compelling for adults as well."

Kathryn: Thank you! And thanks everyone, I really enjoyed this. The time flew by. I wish you all the best in your writing and much success!!

Kathryn: LOL, thanks, Kaye!

Mel: Goodnight, EveryChildren'sWriter!