Instititute of Children's Literature

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Transcripts

"Have You Considered Writing for Adults?" with Karen Hammond.

Thursday, December 21, 2000

Moderator is Kristi Holl, author of 24 juvenile books and l00+ adult articles, plus the web editor for this site.

Karen is Karen Hammond, an author successful in both the juvenile and adult markets (including adult fiction, nonfiction and poetry).

Names color coded in blue are viewers who had questions.

Interviews are scheduled for Thursday evenings: 9 Atlantic/Canada, 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening! We're here tonight for a more informal time as Karen Hammond discusses "Have You Considered Writing for Adults?" Karen has been successful in writing juvenile stories, plus adult fiction, nonfiction, and poetry. If adult writing is something you'd also like to try, you'll enjoy Karen's practical ideas on breaking into the adult market. Welcome, Karen!

Karen: Hello! Thanks so much for asking me to be with you tonight.

Moderator: Karen, were you successful in publishing in the children's market or adult market first?

Karen: My very first published piece was for the Sunday supplement of my local newspaper. It was for adults, but it was about my children.

Moderator: I know you published stories for children and teens. What made you decide to also write for the adult market?

Karen: At first I wrote for both the adult and the children's markets, but I seemed to sell more to the adult markets, and since freelancing is my full-time job, it seemed to make sense to pursue the avenues where I was selling the most.

Moderator: Do you think a children's writer can successfully write for the adult markets?

Karen: Oh, definitely. But of course you need to understand the differences and be prepared for a learning curve!

SaraJ: I am very interested in writing for adults. Is there a bigger demand for fiction or nonfiction?

Karen: Nonfiction is definitely easier to market, which is not to say it's simple. However, there are many, many markets for nonfiction in a variety of topics. By comparison there are fewer outlets for fiction and they tend to be harder to get into. In my experience, editors are more apt to take a chance on an unknown nonfiction writer than someone trying to break into fiction.

amy schade: What do you mean by a learning curve?

Karen: There are differences in the way you approach the material for adults, depending on the particular magazine. For example, there are many so-called women's magazines, but each of them has a different audience and a different set of requirements. It can take a while to grasp just which niche in the women's market each editor is going after.

deann: Was it hard to change over to adult writing?

Karen: I think for me writing for adults is probably easier. I tended to write for older children, so the transition wasn't as abrupt as it would have been writing for early readers.

Granny Janny: I would have thought it would be easier to write fiction for adults rather than nonfiction. Comment?

Karen: Well, writing it and publishing it are two different things! If you love fiction, it may indeed be easier to write short stories instead of articles. But it is much harder to sell them. Just in terms of statistics, there are many more outlets for nonfiction. If you think of all the magazines you read, I expect you will see that many more nonfiction articles than fiction stories are published. And as I mentioned previously, because editors need so much content, it is easier to sell nonfiction.

Breazenda: I feel my personality and what I convey may be too strong for children. Would it be a good idea for me to switch to adult writing ?

Karen: Certainly give it a try. And remember that it's not necessarily one or the other. Many successful writers have written for both children and adults. You may find that you write principally for adults, for example, but still turn out an occasional children's piece when you have a good idea and market.

AnneKelly: From looking at the market guides, it seems that adult nonfiction generally pays better than fiction. Do you think this is true?

Karen: Oh, yes, no question. For one thing, much of the fiction in this country is published in small literary magazines, many of them published at universities with small or nonexistent budgets. Unfortunately we do not have the rich short story history in this country that some other countries have. By contrast, a successful nonfiction writer can do pretty well because there are so many magazines looking for nonfiction of all kinds.

Granny Janny: Do magazines published at universities make their way to the general public?

Karen: They're available by subscription to anyone who wants them, and a subscription to one or two is a good way to support the arts in this country. Some of the larger ones are also available in the major bookstores.

AnneKelly: How about books? Is the market also better for nonfiction books than novels?

Karen: Certainly more nonfiction titles are published each year and many of them sell steadily over a long period of time.

Moderator: Is it necessary to take a course in adult writing to be a successful writer?

Karen: It isn't necessary, no. On the other hand, it can't hurt. I taught a freelance writing course in a topnotch English program for several years, and I think the best thing these would-be writers got from the course was each other's company. By that, I mean I could teach them certain techniques, teach them about markets, teach them to self-edit, and so forth, but they probably got more out of reading and critiquing each other's work. So that's something that one can definitely get from a college-level course. In a correspondence course you don't have peers, but you have focused attention from the instructor, which can also be great. Writers' groups--if they are really writers' groups and not social gatherings--can also be very useful.

shanniebee: Do you personally belong to a writers' critique group?

Karen: No, I don't. When I first began writing, I did join one, but to be honest, it wasn't too successful. Most of the people in it were not serious writers and after a few minutes of writing discussion the evening became a social occasion. But there are many excellent writers' groups. I'll give you a little tip, which is to search for a group in which you are not the best writer because if you are, you will be busy teaching others and not learning yourself! I live in a rather remote area now, so I don't have the opportunity to join a group, but certainly I suggest looking around your area to see if there's a group functioning. And if not, consider starting one. A good place to ask is at the library, because a lot of the writers' groups meet there. Or, ask at a bookstore.

Verada: How important is it to belong to a critique group?

Karen: The best writers' groups, in my opinion, function as critique groups, reading each other's work and offering suggestions in a helpful way. If you get a group going that offers honest critiques you can get a lot out of it.

AnneKelly: I've been hesitant to join a writers' group for fear it wouldn't be a serious group. How can you tell before you commit yourself?

Karen: Good question. Ask how many people have been published and where. They don't have to be publishing in major markets, but there should be a sense that the group is serious about the business of writing and not just writing for fun. Then ask how the group is run. Does there seem to be some organization to it, such as critiquing a different member's work each week? Then I'd go to a couple of meetings and get a feel for whether you "fit in" to the group. You don't want a group that tells you everything you write is wonderful; on the other hand, you don't want a hatchet job. People should know how to critique in a positive way. And those being critiqued should know how to accept the critique but not be overpowered by it.

Granny Janny: Can't a group where no one is published be hopeful and serious about their writings?

Karen: Yes, of course. But I think a commitment to studying the markets and sending work out regularly should be part of it, if members are committed to becoming professional writers.

vernon: I am somewhat surprised that the Institute for CHILDREN'S Literature is promoting writing for adults. What is the connection here?

Karen: ICL also has an adult writing course that is very popular. But I'm really here to talk about crossing over, not necessarily to promote the course! Kristi may have something to add?

Moderator: Sure. We aren't so much promoting writing for adults tonight as showing what options you might have. Many children's writers do ask me about crossing over and writing for both children and adults, and since I got my own start that way (both writing FOR children's magazines and writing ABOUT my children for adult magazines) it made sense to have someone in tonight to show how it can be done successfully. And as Karen said, it really isn't a conflict of interest for us, since our sister school, the Long Ridge Writers Group (of which I'm also the web editor and where we have interviews like this and many helpful articles) has a correspondence course for adult writing. Sometimes children's writers feel "stale" like all writers, and being able to cross over to adult writing sometimes keeps us fresh. We'll cover some more "nuts and bolts" of crossing over now and come back to answer more questions soon. Karen, can a writer write for both markets at the same time, or is switching back and forth during the day too much of a jolt?

Karen: I think it depends on the individual. I write for a variety of audiences and in a variety of genres. I like the challenge and the variety. It might drive another writer batty, but it works for me. I do think you have to focus on one project for a reasonable length of time. For example, drafting a children's story and then proofreading your finished adult nonfiction piece.

SaraJ: I'd like to keep writing for children, but also add adult nonfiction to my repertoire. What topics do you find sell well?

Karen: The most popular adult nonfiction article is, hands down, the "how-to" piece. Editors everywhere are looking for them. Profiles are also very popular.

Moderator: I am intimidated by the adult nonfiction markets. The articles all seem so heavily researched that I'm afraid to tackle one.

Karen: The Internet has made research so much easier that no one needs to fear it. I'd suggest starting with a topic that you know something about or are interested in. For example, write about a parenting issue, or a hobby, or a place you've visited. These topics don't necessarily require a lot of intense research.

Moderator: If something does require research, how do you do what's needed for adult articles and stories?

Karen: I am not a high-tech person, but through trial and error I have learned to use the Internet. I've also made good contacts along the way in the course of interviews. Anytime I talk with someone who has particular knowledge about something, his or her name goes into my files for future reference!

Moderator: Is it ever possible to spin off an adult article or short story from a children's piece that I've published? I often think I'd like to try, but I don't know if it would work.

Karen: That's an interesting idea, and I don't see why it couldn't be done. Let's think of an example. If you went on a trip to Europe, for example, you might write an article or story for kids based on something you did or saw there, and you could write an adult version pretty easily. Again, you'd have to know the adult market you were aiming for in order to know how to slant the piece, if you were writing nonfiction.

Jackie: To write for adult magazines using an incident I wrote about for children, can I just change the viewpoint? (For example, the children's story was about a ten-year-old breaking his arm. Can I rewrite the incident for adult magazines, telling the story from the mother's viewpoint?)

Karen: I don't think it's quite this simple. Changing the viewpoint is certainly not a problem. But you would need an understanding of what it takes to hold an adult reader's interest, which is somewhat different from writing for a child. It surely could be done.

Moderator: What if I'm a fairly successful children's writer, but when I approach editors of adult magazine markets they don't even look at my stuff. How can I get my foot in the door?

Karen: This is the 64 thousand dollar question, isn't it! Actually it's tough for everyone to get his or her foot in the door. Editors tell me over and over again that it's the quality of the piece, not the credentials of the writer, that make them decide to buy a piece, and to a certain extent I think that's true. Study the markets--that's a must. Learn to write a professional query letter. Editors put a lot of importance on queries. I know this firsthand, because I was once editor of a regional magazine. After a while I could pretty much tell from the quality of the query whether the writer was someone I wanted to work with. If you have written something for children that is related to what you are proposing to an adult magazine, it's worth mentioning it. For example, if you've written a lot of craft articles for kids and are proposing a craft article for adults, it would be worth mentioning that you've published a variety of craft pieces in certain magazines, which you should name. On the other hand, if you are pitching a travel article, your craft pieces for kids really aren't relevant, although you could say that you have had several pieces previously published without going into detail. Another point: don't try only the top markets and don't try only for major features. A lot of people break into small magazines first, doing department pieces or very brief articles.

Verada: Are there any major differences between writing a query for adults' and children's magazines?

Karen: Fundamentally they're the same. Come off like a professional who can write appropriately for the market. Indicate a clear understanding of the market by saying something like, "Because your magazine is geared to men ages 24-40, I think my article, 'Getting Fit Before 40' would be of special interest."

AnneKelly: Regarding a query letter, do you think "less is more," or should the query be lively and imaginative? I would think it should really stand out and be different than a cover letter.

Karen: The best queries give a sense of the writer's style, while remaining professional. Cover all the basics: what you are proposing, how you will go about it, why you are a good person to write it, what sources you will use, and how long it will be. I often try to work my lead into the query, which seems to work well. Try not to be dry, but don't swing too far in the other direction and be cutesy. I've seen queries come in filled with confetti, and another that had "read me, read me" rubber stamped all over it. They got the editor's attention all right, but not quite what the writer hoped for!

Sheryl: What are some specific differences in writing for adults as opposed to writing for children?

Karen: Of course the intellectual level is higher, so you can use adult vocabulary, longer and more complex sentences, and so forth. But even within the adult market there are variations. There are vast differences in writing for say Smithsonian, The New Yorker, and Good Housekeeping. All are excellent examples of their type of magazine, all pride themselves on good writing and top writers, but the writing styles could not be more different. Just as you study the appropriate language for the age group you're writing for in a children's piece, you need to study the readership of the adult magazine.

Moderator: Would it be worth the time and money for me to go to a writers' conference that focuses on the adult markets?

Karen: Good writers' conferences can be very worthwhile. If you are selling some of your work, it's a professional expense. Save your receipts and talk with your tax man! Writers don't do this enough, by the way!

Moderator: What should a writer focus on at a conference?

Karen: I speak at conferences frequently. One thing I see a lot is two friends who come in together and stick like glue all day. I realize that a large conference can be intimidating at first, but to get the most out of it, go alone. Or go with your friend and meet up at the end of the day to compare notes. Network all you can. Talk with other writers. Again, seek out people who are writing, not folks who are trying to break in. Not that there's anything wrong with being a beginner...not at all...but you've spent your money to learn a few tricks of the trade. Attend seminars or talks that interest you. Come prepared with a pad of paper and some business cards, which you should try to pass to every editor you come across. It's often difficult to talk privately with editors at these conferences, but you can give them your card. They do keep them. And of course if you have a minute or two to introduce yourself, that's great. If an editor seems interesting and you like her magazine, follow up with a query as soon as possible when you get home, while your name may still ring a bell in her mind.

imhopeful: What all should go on a business card besides your name?

Karen: Keep business cards very professional. Your name, address, phone, fax, and e-mail contact numbers. I list the professional organizations I belong to in very small print at the bottom of mine, but the basic information is all you need. You can add "freelance writer" under your name, if you want, but skip the doodads, fountain pen graphics and such.

AnneKelly: What do you say to an editor as you're giving them a card?

Karen: If there's time to talk for a minute, try to follow up on something she said during her talk, if she gave one, such as, "I'm So&So, and I'm interested in what you said about needing humorous essays. I'd like to send you a couple I think you'll enjoy." They always say, "Sure, go ahead..." After all, the editors are there to pick up new writing talent. Then follow up while she has your card and remembers your name. When you query or send the piece in, you can refer to the conference: "We spoke briefly at the ZXXX conference about my humor pieces, and I'm enclosing two for your consideration..." If the editor hasn't been a speaker, but you're introduced or just meet up at lunch, be prepared with a business card and be prepared with an answer to the inevitable "what do you write...?" which the editor will surely ask. All conferences send out a pre-conference brochure that indicates who is coming, so you should do your homework and be prepared!

AnneKelly: If you write in both markets, how do you choose a conference to go to?

Karen: I guess I'd have to say that if you are reasonably comfortable in one market (let's say you've sold a couple of children's things and now want to explore the adult markets) it might be good to go to the adult writing conference and see how you like it.

deann: Any other options for connecting with editors besides business cards?

Karen: All editors are different. Some editors of small magazines don't mind phone calls, but be sure to read up on the markets and make sure phone calls are OK. Queries are usually your best bet for getting your name before an editor.

Verada: Are adults' or children's markets more receptive to new writers?

Karen: I'm not sure I can answer that definitively. It's more a matter of the individual publication and the individual editor. There are probably more adult markets overall, so I suppose the odds are better in that respect. On the other hand, not everyone has the skill to write at a child's level, and those editors are always looking for people who can do it.

vernon: ICL provides us excellent marketing resources. Are there similar resources like the magazine market for adult writers?

Karen: Oh definitely. Long Ridge, which is ICL's sister school for adult writing, has an excellent marketing book. And in any bookstore you can find the adult writers' bible, which is Writer's Market, a thick volume updated annually.

vernon: Can you give some initial steps for making the cross over, please?

Karen: I'd suggest querying on a topic you know something about: a travel piece, a how-to piece, or whatever. Don't necessarily try one of the major magazines. Your chances of breaking in are much better with the smaller magazines, many of which are very good. Another plus is that the editors of these magazines often have more time to work with you and are more accessible in the sense that they'll spend a few minutes to tell you why they edited something a certain way. You can learn from that for the next time. If they publish your piece, you then have a clip that you can use as a springboard to a bigger and better market. The biggest single mistake among would-be adult writers is aiming for several major markets, getting rejected by all of them, and then giving up on writing. It happens all the time! There's nothing shameful about starting small.

teach: Is there much of a demand for travel writing now?

Karen: Yes. Travel writing is very hot. Within travel writing there are lots of trends. For example, destination writing is not too popular right now. That means a piece where you do an overview of a particular place. But round-up pieces, like "The Best Baked Beans in New England," where you write about half a dozen places where you can eat New England's favorite food are very hot.

deann: What is in demand? Romance, sci-fi, etc.?

Karen: Romance is always very much in demand. It's one of the easiest ways to break into short fiction. You don't always get a byline in the romance magazines, but at least you get a clip and get paid. Sci-fi is also very popular if you have the background to write it. Most sci-fi writers have excellent scientific backgrounds along with vivid imaginations!

Moderator: New York City is obviously the publishing Mecca for adult fiction and nonfiction. How can I, a children's writer living in a small town, find out what editors are looking for? How do I approach them professionally so they won't think I'm from the sticks?

Karen: You've come to the right place. I'm writing to you from an island off the coast of Maine. Doesn't get much more remote than that. If you want to write adult nonfiction, the articles are around you every day, no matter where you live. Your approach to the editors should be like anyone else's--a professional query followed up by the best article you can write. I find that editors like to latch onto writers who live in a variety of places. After all, their readers are not all in New York. The women's magazines, for example, while mostly published in the middle of NYC, have a vast readership in towns and villages all across the country.

Moderator: I've heard that an agent is a must if you want to write for adults. Is this true, and if so, how do I get one?

Karen: If you are writing only for magazines, you don't need an agent. In fact, agents won't be interested in you because their cut from magazine fees is not enough to make it worth their while to represent you. If you are writing a nonfiction book it's still possible to approach publishers yourself with a well-crafted proposal. There are many books that will explain how to do that. However, there's no question that a good agent helps, even with nonfiction. For adult fiction, it has become almost impossible to sell a novel without an agent. Editors just won't read them. If you decide to get an agent, be sure to find someone reputable. There are good books that list agents' names. Or an excellent way is to ask other writers at a conference who represents them. Often they will be willing to introduce you to their agent. Another trick is to read the front material in a published book that is similar to yours. Writers often thank their agents in the acknowledgments page, and this is a good way to pick up names.

Sheryl: Is marketing adult writing different from marketing children's writing, or are the steps the same?

Karen: Essentially the steps are the same. Because pieces for children are usually so short, you do find more instances when the editors say to send in the completed manuscript instead of a query. It's just as easy for them to read the completed ms. But if you have to write a query letter, it's essentially the same approach: Be professional and show why you are a good candidate for writing this particular article or story or book.

deann: When do you get past the fear of being rejected?

Karen: Never. It hurts just as much now as it did 25 years ago when I got started, especially when it's a piece I love. But the big difference is that I know now that it's just the writing that is rejected, not the writer. That's very important. Articles and stories can be rejected for any number of reasons having nothing to do with the quality of the piece. The magazine may have recently published something similar, or be about to. They may be backlogged with material, which happens a lot more than many writers realize. The magazine may be undergoing a change of editorial philosophy, which also happens frequently. Or the editor may simply be in a foul mood! Just send the piece out to the next publication on your list and don't look back.

Moderator: A good upbeat note to end on! I'm sorry, but we're out of time. Karen, thank you so much for coming tonight and giving us some practical advice about writing for adults as well as for children. We appreciate hearing from someone who has been able to do both successfully.

Karen: Thank you so much, everyone. I enjoyed your very thoughtful questions. Happy holidays to everyone.

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks, on January 4, 2001, to hear Joanne Mattern talk on the subject of "Publishing in the Educational Market." A lucrative income can be made in writing for children in this genre. Joanne's interview will cover such subjects as hi-lo books, writing test preparation passages, leveled readers and writing for classroom magazines. This genre is often overlooked by children's writers, but Joanne will tell you how you can break into this field. In the meantime, all of you have a blessed, blessed holiday season and safe travels! Good night, everyone!

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