Rx for Writers

Transcripts

Thursday, January 4, 2001

Moderator is Kristi Holl, author of 24 books for middle graders and teens, plus 100+ articles for children and adults. She is also the web editor for this site.

Joanne is Joanne Mattern, author of over 125 books, many of them in the educational market. Perfection Learning Corporation recently published Joanne's COMING TO AMERICA: THE STORY OF IMMIGRATION, and AFRICA and ASIA, the first two volumes in her ANIMAL GEOGRAPHY SERIES. Capstone Press published the first four books in her new LEARNING ABOUT CATS SERIES.

Names color coded in blue are viewers who had questions.

Interviews are held 9-11 p.m. Atlantic/Canada, 8-10 p.m. Eastern, 7-9 Central, 6-8 Mountain, and 5-7 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening! Welcome to tonight's online interview with Joanne Mattern on the subject of "Publishing in the Educational Market." I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator for this evening and the web editor of this site. It's good to be back after the holidays, and what a great turnout! I think we're all ready to get back into the writing habit! Joanne will be talking tonight about a variety of educational topics, including hi-lo books, writing test preparation passages, leveled readers and writing for classroom magazines. Welcome, Joanne!

Joanne: Hi, everyone! I'm glad to be here. And glad I have such a great turnout for my interview!

Moderator: Joanne, can you first give us a bit of your publishing history? How did you get started writing?

Joanne: I've been writing my whole life, but nothing that was published. Then, in 1988, I started working for a publisher called Troll. A lot of Troll's books were written and illustrated by the staff. When my boss found out I love animals, she asked me to write a picture book series about them. That series was my first publication--and my career took off from there! I worked for Troll until 1995, then quit to freelance full-time from home.

kidcounselor: Working for Troll in what capacity?

Joanne: I was an editor.

Moderator: Was educational writing your first love? If not, how did you come to write for this market?

Joanne: Not at all! In fact, I didn't even know about the educational market until I was already freelancing. Then a friend and mentor was putting together a classroom project and needed an editor. This friend taught me the ropes, and later I went on to edit and write readers for her.

Moderator: You've written over 125 books! What length books do you write?

Joanne: Most are between 32 and 48 pages. A lot of the readers are only 16 pages though.

Moderator: Who can write for the educational market? What qualifications must you meet?

Joanne: One of the most important qualifications is classroom experience. The funny thing about that is, I have absolutely ZERO experience as a teacher! So you don't have to be a teacher to write for this market. But it helps in two ways: First of all, you're working with kids every day and know what grabs their interest. And second, you know the curriculum and what materials teachers need to cover. As a note of encouragement, I want to say that not only teachers have classroom experience! If you run a Sunday school program, or a daycare center, or you baby-sit or volunteer in a classroom, you're definitely getting relevant experience.

Moderator: Specifically, how did you break into this market?

Joanne: My first foot in the door was editing readers and a teacher's guide for my friend, as I mentioned earlier. Later, I sent my list of publications to some educational publishers and they offered me some books. It did take a long time to get up to speed though!

Moderator: Did you choose topics of interest to you--like cats--or were the topics assigned to you?

Joanne: My main area of interest is animals, and I make sure to let publishers know that, which means that I'm frequently offered those topics to write about. But most books are assigned by the publisher. Of course, they always ask if you're interested in the topic first!

Moderator: Who exactly publishes educational materials?

Joanne: There are a number of book and magazine publishers geared to the school and library market. Many of them aren't familiar to the general public because their books aren't in bookstores, but you can find their books in classrooms and libraries.

Moderator: What is the market for educational materials?

Joanne: Schools and libraries, primarily. Some materials, such as readers and test prep booklets, are only used in classrooms by teachers.

Moderator: How can I find educational publishers?

Joanne: One way is to look at books in your local library or your children's classrooms or school library. You can also find listings of educational publishers in several market guides, including the Institute's Children's Writer's Guide and Children's Book Market and the Children's Writer newsletter. SCBWI (Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators) also publishes updated market listings, and I believe Writer's Market (a reference book) also lists educational publishers.

Theresa: Are there any particular publishers that are more open to new writers? I'm interested in writing for emergent readers (Reading Recovery, Title I, etc.).

Joanne: Just as in general publishing, smaller publishers are better. Publishers like McGraw-Hill and Scott Foresman are hard to break into, but smaller places, such as Evan-Moor, are more open to new writers. I would check market guides and also see who publishes materials in schools in your area.

Moderator: How do I know what subjects publishers are looking for?

Joanne: A lot of educational material is tied into the curriculum, so any topic covered in school is fair game. In general, though, the usual nonfiction topics--nature, hard science, math, social studies--are all appropriate.

Wendy: Many areas in the educational market change rapidly like current events. I am interested in developing materials for the classroom to update children on current events. Is there a need for this? Or is it taken care of with computers and television in the classroom?

Joanne: I think that's a great idea! Teachers are always looking for materials to teach current events, since textbooks are pretty useless in this area. The only drawback would be that by the time the materials were published in book form, they wouldn't be current anymore. But if you focused on magazine articles, I think you would do well.

loulou: Aren't there any regulations by the government (0ntario government in Canada) that have to be met to write for educational purposes?

Joanne: Not really. There are state guidelines for textbooks, but the sorts of educational material I'm talking about don't fit under that category.

Mom of 3: Are reading levels standard across the country, or are they different for each state/region?

Joanne: They're standard. The publishers use standard formulas to figure out reading levels. They know what vocabulary is appropriate for different grade levels too and will guide you in that area.

AnneKelly: Have you been able to make a good living by being a full-time freelancer?

Joanne: Absolutely! Better than I expected, although I work very hard.

loulou: What is the difference between educational writing and nonfiction writing?

Joanne: In general, educational writing is more focused--the books are shorter and the topics might not be covered in depth. Also, in educational publishing, you usually have to include things like a Glossary and Reading Lists.

Ducky: To write for educational publishers, do you need to know what is being taught at a certain level, etc.?

Joanne: Yes, that is a HUGE help. But many times, the publisher will take care of this and provide you with your topic and grade level.

Ducky: Is there a good resource to let you know what the curriculum is for a particular grade?

Joanne: I believe that state guidelines are posted on the Internet, under each state's educational Web sites. In addition, you could ask your local school district to help. Even if you don't have kids in school, I wouldn't be shy about calling the principal and asking to speak to the school librarian or the teacher of the grade level you're interested in. Children's librarians at the public library can help too, because they have school reading lists.

kidcounselor: What if you're just getting started and have no books out? Any hope for you breaking into this market?

Joanne: Magazines are a great place to start. They have a higher demand for material and are always looking for kid-tested ideas. I should also mention that magazines love activities and crafts that can be done by kids in classrooms or Sunday schools. In fact, there are many magazines that cater specifically to the Sunday school market. That's a great way to break in.

Ducky: Is all of your writing nonfiction?

Joanne: About 85 percent. I have written some easy readers and test prep materials in the fiction genre though.

swdish05: How high is the demand in the education market?

Joanne: It seems to be pretty high right now, because schools have money to spend on materials and also there's been great public demand to improve the curriculum and make sure kids are learning.

silverywater: How much time is spent researching/writing a typical book of 32-48 pages?

Joanne: I try to spend 2-4 weeks researching a book of that length. I check out a lot of library books and magazine articles and surf the Internet.

Maudy: I have a couple of ideas for biographies. Should I query first or write and submit the finished manuscript?

Joanne: It depends on the publisher, because some want complete manuscripts and some want queries. I would write to the publishers for their guidelines and follow them to the letter.

wendymh: Who would be interested in something like current events articles?

Joanne: I can't think of any magazines offhand, because most of my experience is with books. Look at the magazines in your local library and school classrooms and try to find a good fit or ask a teacher or librarian for some suggestions.

kidcounselor: Does anyone specialize in guidance materials?

Joanne: Probably, although that's not a field I have experience in. Again, a call to your school district's guidance office or children's librarian could probably give you some leads.

Blue Phantom: Is there still a market for ABC books, or are they mostly written in house?

Joanne: Good question! A lot of publishers aren't interested in ABC books because there are already so many out there. But if you have a "hook," such as photos that illustrate each letter, or a clever folk tale that weaves in the ABCs, that's a big help. A friend of mine recently published an ABC book that featured rain forest animals, and it did very well.

Moderator: Are there any "taboo" subjects I should avoid with educational publishers?

Joanne: Yes, absolutely! The educational market is very conservative, so anything featuring witchcraft, violence, cults, guns, drinking, drugs, smoking, or profanity would not be accepted. I once had a test prep article rejected because it was about the history of playing cards which the publisher felt was connected to gambling, another "taboo" subject. Who knew?!

Theresa: How open are publishers to series? Should you query an early reader series with one of the mss?

Joanne: I've had good luck with series and feel they are quite welcome. Yes, I would send one of the mss. along with a query for the entire series.

Moderator: How are payments usually made? (Flat fee or royalty; well-paying or not?)

Joanne: Almost all of the payments are flat fee. With testing materials, you are often paid per page. The good news is, the educational market pays very well--much better than trade publishing (unless you write the next Harry Potter, of course!)

Moderator: What are the benefits of writing for the educational market?

Joanne: The pay is one of the biggest. Another is the fact that you are helping students learn in an entertaining way. I also like the wide range of topics that the market covers.

Moderator: What are the drawbacks of the educational market?

Joanne: Probably the biggest drawback is that most topics are assigned, so the writer doesn't have as much creative freedom as in trade. Another might be that there is a greater market for nonfiction, although that isn't a problem for me, since that's what I like to write anyway!

Theresa: Are there any resources (books, Web sites, courses) you would recommend for those interested in the educational market?

Joanne: Not offhand, although knowing curriculums, state requirements, and markets is a necessity.

Moderator: What are hi-lo books?

Joanne: Hi-lo stands for HIgh interest level, LOw reading level. Hi-lo books are generally aimed at a 12-year-old reader, but written at an 8-year-old level.

Moderator: What skills are needed to write hi-lo books?

Joanne: The most important thing is to be able to get complicated explanations across in simple, clear language. You want your writing to be lively and accessible to that 6th grader who is struggling to read at his/her grade level.

Moderator: Are you given specific vocabulary lists that you must use?

Joanne: Sometimes, but not as often as you might think. Several publishers have asked me to use a reference book called Children's Writer's Word Book, published by Writer's Digest Books. I recommend this book to anyone interested in educational publishing. It includes vocabulary lists for grades K-6, as well as grade-level synonyms.

Sis2: Where can you find this Children's Writer's Word Book? At a book store or through mail?

Joanne: I found it at Barnes & Noble. Amazon.com also carries it.

Moderator: Do hi-lo books appear as individual titles or in a series?

Joanne: Primarily in series.

Moderator: What are some popular hi-lo topics?

Joanne: Animal facts, disasters, easy-to-read biographies, and sports are all quite popular.

Dear: Are there any hi-lo books you'd recommend reading if I'd like to try writing one?

Joanne: There are several excellent animal series published by Rourke, Capstone Press, and Children's Press. Your library should have books by these publishers. Rourke's books are especially simple and easy to read, while Capstone's and Children's Press' are more complicated. I recommend looking at these publishers, because you can see how their books are formatted and what the writing style is like. Another hi-lo series publisher is Abdo; again these books are very simple.

Moderator: Educational publishers also need test preparation packages. What are they?

Joanne: Remember when you were in school, you had to read a passage, then answer a series of questions about it? That's a test prep package! I love doing these, and it's not as hard a market to break into as you might think. I've seen listings in Children's Writer and SCBWI for McGraw-Hill and Harcourt which ask writers to submit manuscripts for consideration. They are very responsive to new writers. I also want to mention that often, the writer only does the reading passage, not the comprehension questions, although sometimes you are asked to come up with questions or vocabulary words to quiz.

Moderator: How do you write a test prep package?

Joanne: Sometimes, you just submit a passage and hope the publisher chooses it. However, I have written very extensive reading booklets for several publishers, and that worked differently. I was assigned a topic--such as Arctic exploration--and a genre--such as nonfiction. It was up to me to write whatever I wanted within those guidelines. I ended up writing about how sled dogs are trained. Other styles include fiction and informational (such as how to read a map or perform an experiment). I like this approach because it allows me to be more creative, but not all publishers work this way.

Dear: Can you find examples of test prep packages at the library?

Joanne: No. You'd have to ask a classroom teacher for this.

Moderator: How are you paid for these--and how well paid are you?

Joanne: Test preps pay by the page, and they pay very well.

Moderator: Educational publishers also want leveled readers. What are they?

Joanne: Leveled readers are books geared specifically to certain grade levels. They are often quite short--about 16 pages is average--and are used to fill in gaps left by readings in the textbook. For this market, you would probably be assigned a topic to write about, since the requirements are so specific.

Moderator: Who comes up with topics for leveled readers?

Joanne: In my experience, the publishers look at their educational programs and see which areas need more material. Leveled readers are generally published by the same companies that publish textbooks, such as McGraw-Hill and Scott Foresman.

Moderator: How do I know what grade level my writing is suited for?

Joanne: Good question! Usually, the publisher will do a readability test on your manuscript. These tests use specific formulas based on the number of words in a sentence and the number of syllables in a word. The best way for the writer to find a suitable grade level is to compare his/her writing to books that have already been published. As a general rule, the younger the reader, the shorter the sentences and the simpler the vocabulary.

Moderator: What about classroom magazines? Can you give us some sample titles and tell us what they're looking for?

Joanne: Two of the most popular classroom magazines are Teaching K-8 and Creative Classroom. Writers can check out these and other magazines by asking teachers or librarians to save a few recent issues for them.

Moderator: Is there a place for activities or craft articles in the educational market?

Joanne: Absolutely! Magazines, especially, are looking for creative ways to involve kids in learning, so crafts and activities are a great way to do this. In fact, it's a real plus if you can include an activity or craft that ties into your article, no matter what you're writing about. For example, if you've written an article about animal tracks, you could add an activity on using plaster of Paris to collect tracks in your neighborhood.

wendymh: Is Scholastic still a big classroom magazine?

Joanne: Yes. In fact, they have a number of magazines, geared to different subject areas, and they are open to submissions.

Moderator: What is a teacher's guide and how do you prepare one?

Joanne: Teachers' guides are usually packaged with book series or test prep materials. Their purpose is to guide the teacher in using the material. When you write a teacher's guide, you look at the material (article or book) and think of creative ways the teacher can use the material in the classroom. Usually teacher's guides include activities, reading lists, journal entries, and different teaching approaches for different abilities.

Dear: How do you approach an educational publisher for assignments?

Joanne: I would send clips of your writing, if possible, as well as a list of your qualifications (teacher, baby-sitter, whatever puts you in contact with kids). Look for publishers requesting samples or submissions in market guides such as the SCBWI Bulletin or Children's Writer. Because many educational topics are assigned, publishers often ask for a writing sample and a resume, then keep your material on file until a project comes up.

A Christian: I'm an elementary school special education teacher. I'm developing interactive software keyed to a publisher's product. How open are publishers to software?

Joanne: I think they are very open to software. Go for it!

A Christian: Do you know if there is a set standard (or ballpark) for payment?

Joanne: I haven't done any software for a couple of years, but previous projects were the same as book publishing--the pay is quite good, although I don't want to get into specifics.

swdish05: As a former educator, I created a curriculum for students with low writing abilities. It seems sad that it is in the basement collecting dust. What can be done with it?

Joanne: I agree! Take it out and look it over. Make sure it is appropriate (writing style and content) for today's market. You might even run it by some local teachers or students and get their input. Once you feel it is in good shape, check the market guides for potential publishers. Good luck!

Lib: Does it help to have a teaching certificate, even if you don't have much teaching experience?

Joanne: It couldn't hurt. Since you need classroom experience to get the certificate in the first place, I would mention this in any cover letters to publishers.

silverywater: How competitive/saturated is this genre compared to children's fiction?

Joanne: I think it is much less saturated, since many people aren't even aware there is an educational market. And educational publishers always seem to need good writers.

kidcounselor: How close is the F-K reading level in Word to actual reading level?

Joanne: I've never actually tried it, so I'm afraid I don't know.

Lib: Does an educational writer need to do author visits, promotion, presentations?

Joanne: Good question! In general, no, since your materials don't require the type of promotion trade books do, since they have a built-in market. However, I've done school visits and have always been quite welcome, especially if I talk about a book the kids have read in class, or discuss a topic they've studied. I recently spoke to 3rd to 5th graders about dinosaurs, and it was a huge hit!

swdish05: For magazines, do you write your submission in a lesson plan type of format? How much information that is directly geared to educators should you include?

Joanne: It depends on the magazine. Some are just looking for articles or activities. But if the article is geared to a lesson plan, I would certainly include it.

wendymh: Please talk more about test prep materials. Would you work with the schools/teachers to find out what would be most helpful to them?

Joanne: No, because testing materials have to follow state guidelines--they aren't based on local experiences. Just try to write interesting, informative articles that the publisher can fit into its program. Educational publishers who publish textbooks and testing materials know the guidelines and state requirements.

Maudy: There is a growing interest in home schooling. Are there certain publishers that cater to them?

Joanne: Yes. We have a store called Educational Warehouse on the East Coast, and I know I've seen workbooks and other materials specifically for home schoolers there. There are also companies that publish lesson plans specifically for home schoolers. If you have an interest or experience in home schooling, I would definitely investigate this area.

balto: Who publishes hi-low articles or short stories?

Joanne: Hi-lo materials are generally found in the book market, not the magazine market. However, classroom magazines are always looking for high-interest material that is clear and easy to read.

prairie 4: How would you sell the idea of a teacher's guide that accompanies a picture?

Joanne: I'm not sure what you mean by a picture. Teacher's guides generally accompany a book series or classroom packet of material.

rayah333marie: What kind of writing sample should you initially send to a publisher?

Joanne: Something that matches their grade levels and programs. For example, if they publish easy readers for preschool, send a short manuscript in that genre. If they publish nonfiction for preteens, write a longer article that would appeal to that audience. Tailoring your writing to the market's needs is vital!

wendymh: What is the turnaround time for a book in this market from the time you submit until it is published?

Joanne: It varies by publisher, but 6-12 weeks is probably the norm. Often, the publisher's guidelines or market listings will tell you this.

Dear: Does the writing sample have to be something previously published?

Joanne: No. You could submit a sample manuscript you've written specifically for that publisher. I've done this many times.

kidcounselor: Are there different guidelines for the test prep packages than the regular slush pile submissions?

Joanne: Not really, although each publisher has its own guidelines and requirements. I recall that McGraw-Hill wanted the writer to include test questions with their article, while Harcourt only wanted the article. (This may have changed, so don't take my word for it!) As with trade publishing, query and get guidelines FIRST!

rayah333marie: Do you copyright your articles, etc. before sending them to a publisher? I'm confused on this issue because I've read conflicting information.

Joanne: No. In fact, since most educational publishing is work for hire, the publisher holds the copyright, not the author (although you are listed and acknowledged as the author).

kidcounselor: Will publishers often begin assigning things to you once they know your style is a good match?

Joanne: Yes, yes, yes! And let me tell you, the best feeling in the world is when a publisher comes back to you and asks for more!

Lib: Do you publish in the commercial/trade market? Do you prefer one over the other?

Joanne: I've done some things for the trade market, but I seem to have become primarily an educational writer now! I am very comfortable in the educational field because it allows me to write nonfiction, which is my first love.

swdish05: Are there any particular areas of education that have a greater demand?

Joanne: Publishers are always looking for people who can write about the hard sciences--chemistry, astronomy, physics. Science and social studies topics are more popular than math or English. Also, if you can write in a foreign language, that's a huge plus!

silverywater: What is the market for writing in a second language? I thought that school materials were in English only?

Joanne: Oh no, there is a lot of demand for other languages, especially Spanish. ESL classes could especially use these materials.

silverywater: I can write in other languages, but I am confused; wouldn't ESL teachers want English materials?

Joanne: Yes, but if the teacher is working with a specific ethnic group, it would be helpful to have some materials in that language, or for the author to be able to write in both languages. I've also seen books with stories in English and then translated into another language in the same book.

silverywater: Are "educational" materials geared for use by children or teachers, or both? What is the difference, if any?

Joanne: The materials are primarily used by children; however, readers and hi-lo books often include teachers' guides that help adults use the material with the students.

kidcounselor: How do you know who needs writing for test materials?

Joanne: I've found several publishers by reading market guides and publishing newsletters, such as SCBWI's. You might also write to textbook publishers (see which ones are used in your school district) and ask who to contact for test prep materials.

Lib: How do you know if your book would fit better in the ed. market or the trade market?

Joanne: Great question! In general, educational books aren't as lively or detailed as trade books, and the artwork is usually quite different. Also, the topic has a lot to do with it. If you are explaining or exploring a classroom topic, you're probably writing an educational book.

kidcounselor: It seems that the review times I've seen are LONG (6-12 months). Have you found this to be the case?

Joanne: No, although I have waited longer than that for assignments after sending in my resume and writing samples!

swdish05: I have been working on an article about how misunderstood the history surrounding the Salem Witch Trials is. Would this fall under taboo subjects? Where is the line between taboo and history/education?

Joanne: That's a tricky one. I definitely wouldn't write about witch trials for a test prep book! However, if the subject is studied in the classroom, it could work as a reader or hi-lo book. That's the key--is this a subject kids are studying in school?

gwen: If you don't have credits and the publisher doesn't accept unsolicited mss., how do you get an assignment?

Joanne: You can send a cover letter and a brief writing sample (just a page or two is fine) and ask to be kept in mind for future projects. Meanwhile, work on getting published elsewhere, perhaps in a magazine or your local newspaper.

Sis2: Is it better to write to the publishers and ask what topics they are looking for or write on your choice of subjects and send it for their review?

Joanne: For the educational market, I would definitely query what subjects the publisher wants. Also, market guides often list subjects that the publisher is especially interested in.

Dear: Is an agent helpful in getting a foot in the door for the educational market?

Joanne: No. Agents are primarily interested in the trade market, because their share of the money is better. You absolutely don't need an agent for this market.

rayah333marie: Do you use the Internet for your research, or libraries, or both? Any other research options you use?

Joanne: Both. I've found sources on the Internet to be more up-to-date than library books. Other good options are local museums or historical societies. These places often have experts on staff, or can refer you to someone who is a fountain of information.

rayah333marie: How many publishers can you submit to and work with at the same time?

Joanne: As many as you want! The only thing to be careful of is writing about the same topic for the same market. For example I worked on an encyclopedia about immigration to America, and later wrote a hi-lo book about the same topic. Because these were two different markets, that was okay; however, I wouldn't feel comfortable writing another hi-lo reader on the topic. Also some contracts forbid you to write on the same material for a competitor.

kidcounselor: How do you document your sources for nonfiction? Anything different in this genre?

Joanne: I always supply a list of all sources--books, Web sites, magazine articles, CD-ROMs, interviews, etc.--along with the manuscript when I submit it. Many publishers require this.

wendymh: You mentioned that the educational market is conservative. Are environmental issues that are discussed from all points of view okay?

Joanne: Yes, I think so. Conservation and habitat issues are actually quite popular topics.

wendymh: How do publishers react to values and morals being included in articles in the educational market?

Joanne: Not too well. Educational publishers don't want to offend anybody, so they're very careful.

Dear: What was your favorite project?

Joanne: I just did a book of capsule biographies of famous Americans that was lots of fun (although a lot of research!). A series called ANIMAL GEOGRAPHY was fun too.

Moderator: I'm sorry to have to stop, but we're out of time already. Joanne, thank you so much for coming tonight and sharing your expertise on breaking into and writing for the educational market. I know that you've given our viewers many new avenues to explore.

Joanne: They asked lots of great questions! I hope everyone found my comments helpful. Educational publishing isn't for everyone, but it can be very rewarding.

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks, on January l8, to hear Pat McCarthy talk about "Writing Biographies for Young People." Pat has sold four YA biographies to date (to Enslow Publishers), and is willing to share her expertise in writing for this specialized market. Look for more about this interview in coming newsletters. And now, good night, everyone, and Happy New Year!

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