"Opening the Door to Educational Publishing" with Joanne Mattern

Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this interview with Joanne Mattern and web editor of the ICL Web Site.

Mel: Joanne Mattern, our Chat Guest for this evening, is published in more than 130 children's books for a variety of publishers. Joanne has also written test preparation and classroom materials for a number of educational publishers. When she began in publishing, Joanne worked as assistant to Editor David Reuther at Morrow Junior Books, one of the most respected editors and publishers. She also worked at Troll Communications, which gave giant Scholastic a run for its book club money into the 1990s. I am also eager to ask Joanne tonight about her family, including those crazy cats of hers that we've mentioned. Joanne, thanks for coming, and WELCOME to the ICL Chat Room!

Joanne: Hi, Mel! And hi, everyone! It's great to be here with you!

Mel: Joanne, this FIRST question is one I'm DYING to ask, and I don't want to forget it! Tell us about those crazy cats of yours!

Joanne: Love to! We have three. Lacey is the grande dame--a ten-year-old Maine Coon. She is the craziest of all and loves to carry stuffed animals around the house and meow loudly. Cinnamon Girl is four and a calico. She never met a person she didn't like and will climb on total strangers looking for love. Last year we added Dylan, a tabby kitten, to the house. He is our wild and skittish little guy and makes sure the older cats get their exercise! I also want to mention that all our cats are from animal shelters. We also used to have a retired racing greyhound, but sadly lost him to cancer in 2003. Can you tell we love animals?!

Mel: WE have some rather crazy critters among our four cats, but NONE as crazy-neat as YOURS! Were there any other writers in your family as you grew up, Joanne?

Joanne: No. But my dad wanted to be a journalist. Unfortunately, he graduated from high school in the middle of the Depression and there was no money for college, so he went to work in a bank instead. He's very proud that I make my living as a writer! And he certainly instilled a love of books and libraries in both me and my big sister.

Mel: It sounds like you are carrying on the writing dreams your father had! Do you recall book titles you read as a child, or that were read to you?

Joanne: My sister read the classics to me, A Little Princess, Little Women, The Picture of Dorian Grey, lots of fairy tales and legends, which I still love. When I got older, I fell in love with the Ramona Quimby books by Beverly Cleary. I got to meet her when I worked at Morrow Junior—one of the great thrills of my publishing life!

Mel: RICH memories, those books—and that meeting! Did you WRITE as a child also?

Joanne: Absolutely! I was always writing—even a short play about my friends at school!

Mel: Could you tell us about your family, your daughters, is any of your children "following in your writing footsteps"?

Joanne: Well, they are young yet, but my two daughters both love to tell stories, so maybe! And they love the library. Christina is six and Leanne is four. Both are adopted from China, and we are adopting another child, a four-year-old girl, from China in January. I also have a wonderful and supportive husband who writes poetry, but just for fun. He's a chef, so most of his creativity goes into his cooking!

Mel: YUMMY! Joanne, you are the THIRD family I've heard of recently who adopted children from China. I think that is a MARVELOUS gift you give to those children—and they to you, I'm sure!

Joanne: They are a gift, absolutely. Adopting them was the best thing we ever did! And maybe I'll write a book on adoption someday!

Mel: I WILL READ IT! What is your educational background?

Joanne: I went to Catholic schools through high school, then attended Hartwick College in upstate NY. It's a small, private, liberal arts college that is best known for its great soccer team! Of course, I was an English major, with a minor in history. After I graduated, I went right to work in publishing.

Mel: How did you get started as a professional writer, then, Joanne?

Joanne: During my senior year of college, I did an internship at Morrow Junior Books in New York City. Two months before graduation, my boss, the editor-in-chief, called and offered me a job as his assistant. I started two days after graduation and stayed for three years. My boss was David Reuther, one of the great editors in children's books. He taught me SO much about how to write and edit quality books.

Mel: Tell us a little about Troll Associates, where you worked, too, and which was quite a publishing powerhouse I remember.

Joanne: Yes, Troll was primarily a book club/book fair company that was Scholastic's major rival during the 1970s-1990s. The company was owned and run by a husband and wife, who had a tremendous amount of business sense. Sadly, after they retired in 1995, no one could do as good a job. The company went through several owners and finally went bankrupt in 2003. Ironically, Scholastic bought their remaining assets!

Mel: You have worked for some publishing powerhouses!

Joanne: Yes—unfortunately, both of them are now defunct!

Mel: Morrow Junior Books—it still alive in any form?

Joanne: No. HarperCollins bought William Morrow, the parent company, some years ago and discontinued the MJB imprint.

Mel: Joanne, here's a think-about question. From what you've said about Troll and Morrow, it seems like editors USED to be "teaching editors," teaching writers to write. But that's not true today, is it?

Joanne: No, unfortunately, I don't think it is. So many companies are now part of huge corporations and publishing has become more about making money than publishing quality literature. In the past, editors had the time to nurture writers and help them learn their craft, but not anymore, although there are still small publishers that have a better chance of doing so.

Mel: And how did you come to write for the educational market?

Joanne: Sheer luck! A woman I worked with at Troll had an educational background and did freelance work for some educational publishers. She asked me to help her on a few projects, and that's how I got my foot in the door. I found educational publishing to be more my style and less competitive than trade publishing.

Mel: What types of publishing are in the educational market?

Joanne: Educational publishing covers books for schools and libraries. Well, not just books! The market includes classroom readers, nonfiction books, test prep, hi-lo readers. Basically books used in classrooms or libraries and not necessarily sold in bookstores (those are what's called trade books).

Mel: Now a well deserved admiration for you, Joanne, and a question:

g_logger First let me say that while researching your great career I found your dedication pure INSPIRATION. My question is, was there a person who you knew that made you want to be an adoptive parent?

Joanne: Thank you for the compliments, g_logger! There was no one person, but I was always interested in adoption and it was a natural choice for our family.

Mel: Where are educational materials used? What are the markets?

Joanne: Many are used in classrooms or school libraries. For example, hi-lo readers are books with a high interest level and a low reading level, designed for children who can't read at grade level. Leveled readers are also used in classrooms to help students learn new vocabulary and reading skills. These books are short and use only words that have been taught for a particular grade level. Then there are assessment materials and test booklets, which is another area to talk about but very different from readers.

Mel: What qualifications should an educational writer have?

Joanne: A love of research is key! The writer must present factual information, even if he/she is telling a fictional story. The writer must also be good at explaining things in simple terms and making sometimes difficult concepts accessible and interesting for kids. It also helps to know what's being taught in classrooms. Many educational writers have a teaching background, although I do not. Writers can find grade-level standards online and talk to school administrators and teachers to get an idea of the curriculum and what's needed for specific grade levels or subjects.

Mel: Not incidentally, I'm going to post a few of the 130 titles Joanne Mattern has published, from time to time during this chat tonight. Here are the first few: Safety at Home, Safety at School, Safety in Public Places, Safety in the Water, Safety on the Go, and Safety on Your Bicycle.

Joanne: The Safety books were a series from ABDO Publishers. Not the most exciting topic, but a good example of books that explain basic concepts to young readers. That is a big part of this market.

Mel: Both ABDO and Checkerboard Books are mentioned as publishers of these six books.

Joanne: Yes. Checkerboard is an imprint of ABDO for very young readers—ages 5-7.

Mel: Joanne, tell us about the article about educational publishing you wrote for the Children's Writer's Guide for 2004, Joanne.

Joanne: The article is "The Top 10 Myths about Educational Publishing" and it's a good overview of the market and how to break in. It also dispels some of the misconceptions people have about what educational publishing is.

Mel: In educational publishing, do you choose topics and submit proposals and manuscripts, or are topics assigned?

Joanne: Most topics are assigned. Many educational publishers have existing series and also follow curriculum programs, so they are looking for very specific topics. However, some will accept proposals if the book will fit into an existing program. But it's not like trade publishing, where you write a novel or picture book and decide to send it in.

Mel: Could you explain and example, for instance, how you were first assigned a book by Lucent Books, and how that led to the next book, please?

Joanne: I read about Lucent in a writer's guide—maybe even one from ICL!—and saw they were looking for nonfiction writers. So I sent in a list of my publishing credits. Then they got back to me and asked if I'd like to write a biography. My first book for them was a bio of Tom Cruise. Then I wrote a bio of Celine Dion, and a collective biography about great basketball players. And I just finished another collective biography on mystics and psychics.

Mel: Here are the titles of Joanne's Lucent books: In the History Makers Series for ages 12 and up, Basketball Greats. And for Lucent's People in the News Series, also for ages 12 and up: Tom Cruise and Celine Dion.

Joanne: I want to make a point about the topics of these books and dispel another myth. Tom Cruise or basketball players may not seem very educational, but there is a big market for books about these types of celebrities. Kids often have to write book reports, and they love to read about celebrities, so educational publishers will publish them.

Mel: WELL said, Joanne—and CHEERS for nonfiction! What topics are popular in educational publishing? And is it all nonfiction?

Joanne: Popular topics--a LOT of nonfiction, but some fiction too. Anything studied in school, such as science, math, and history.

Mel: Yes, how DO most educational publishers pay, by fee or royalties, Joanne?

Joanne: A few pay royalties, but most are work for hire. This means that the publisher pays a flat fee and holds the copyright. The author is credited in the book. This may seem unfair, but the fees are usually quite fair and the educational market pays well.

Mel: Not to get personally specific, but what is the RANGE of what educational publishers pay in that "flat fee"?

Joanne: Anywhere from a few hundred dollars for a short reader to $2500 to $3000 for a 112-page book.

Mel: Where does that 112-page format arise from?

Joanne: It's a pretty standard length for a nonfiction book for a teenage reader. Actually, most educational publishers talk about word count rather than page count, so a 112-page book, such as the Lucent biographies, would be about 25,000 words.

tkat_2: Hi, Joanne. Do you edit your own work?

Joanne: Hi, tkat_2. I read through and revise my work before I submit it, but I don't edit it for publication. The publisher takes care of that. Then they get back to me if they need changes or have questions.

Joanne: I don't have much experience with magazines, unfortunately. But I think a book would be more long-lasting and reach more people. But there could be a place for this topic in either genre.

cup: Joanne, you've said that most topics are assigned by educational publishers. Do they also kind of coincide with topic strengths and interests that you have?

Joanne: For the most part, yes. For example, I love writing about animals and my list of publications shows that. So if a publisher is looking for an author for an animal series, they are likely to contact me. However, I am always willing to try new things! In the past 3 years, I've done more in the social sciences area. An educational writer needs to be flexible! Also, most publishers will ask you what you're interested in. It's to their benefit to have a writer who likes the topic and knows something about it.

Mel: You've mentioned those great cats of yours, how did your interest in animals and writing about them FIRST come about?

Joanne: Soon after I joined Troll as an editor, I found out that many of their books were actually written in-house by the editors! My boss asked me if I liked animals and I said yes, so she asked me to write a series called A Picture Book of..., about different animal groups.

Mel: It sounds truly like a DREAM to be asked by an editor to write a book! What other subjects are educational publishers looking for?

Joanne: History, science—especially the hard sciences, such as chemistry and physics. Math, government, biographies of important people...pretty much anything studied in school.

Mel: What companies publish in the educational market and how can I find them?

Mel: GREAT and SPECIFIC suggestions, Joanne—THANKS!

g_logger: When you run into walls doing research for your nonfiction books what drives you to continue?

Joanne: Curiosity and determination! It's frustrating to want to write about a topic and not be able to find enough information. I've found the Internet is a great source, as long as you deal with reputable sources. You can also try to find local experts in the field. For example, a local historical society might have info about something that happened in your area, or a newspaper or museum might have archives you could search. Often the publisher can give you ideas or leads, as they research topics too. Policies change, so the best thing to do is look for info in Children's Writer or the SCBWI newsletter.

kelmar: Can you name some educational publishing houses that are open to NEW writers?

Joanne: Offhand I would say Lucent, Enslow, and The Oliver Press are quite willing to work with new talent.

Sarah Ball: I am a former teacher and currently write nonfiction for magazines and one educational company. How would you suggest finding other educational companies who are open to giving assignments to a freelancer like myself?

Joanne: Ask your librarian to recommend good educational publishers or check the shelves yourself. You can also do a Google search for educational publishers and check their web sites. Also check market lists, such as SCBWI's and Children's Writer's—they're invaluable!

smaug: Joanne, can you please give us an example of educational fiction?

Joanne: This is not as big a market as nonfiction. I wrote two "historical novels" for Rosen earlier this year. But the biggest market for fiction seems to be in leveled readers, testing materials, and classroom assessment materials.

Mel: Here are Joanne Mattern's Rosen titles: America's Gold Rush: John Sutter Discovers Gold in California, and The Cost of Freedom: Crispus Attucks Dies in the Boston Massacre.

Joanne: Those are the "historical novels" I mentioned.

Mel: CONGRATULATIONS on those, Joanne—I know they are rare with educational publishers!

Joanne: Yes, but so much fun to write!

nance: How do you first generate a relationship with an educational publisher?

Joanne: Usually, I just send my information packet—which includes a cover letter, resume, and list of my publications, and wait to hear from them. It's important to stay fresh in the editor's memory, so every 4 months or so, I'll send a quick note or an update on recent publications. I also send out a newsletter every year describing what I worked on the year before. I'm amazed at how many times a publisher will contact me months or years after I first sent something and offer me a job!

Mel: Some things you mentioned earlier: What ARE leveled readers, testing materials and classroom assessment materials?

Joanne: Leveled readers are short books used in classrooms, written with specific vocabulary for that grade. Testing materials and assessment materials are those test passages we all remember from school! A writer is assigned topics and genres, then writes the passage to fit the specs. Sometimes the writer also does the questions, sometimes another writer does those. I love this type of publishing because it's quick, interesting, and pays really well!

gcmsteacher: Did you conduct personal interviews for your celebrity books?

Joanne: No, unfortunately, I never got to talk to Tom Cruise or Celine Dion! I used magazine articles and interviews and biographies published for the adult market.

cup: What are the BASICS for a writer to break into the educational markets?

Joanne: Hi, cup. Number one is find a topic that fits the market. Number two is to prove you can research and write for the age level. You can do this through writing samples, clips, or just a good cover letter.

alswepson: How often do you go on speaking engagements?

Joanne: Not as often as I could if I put more effort into it, alswepson! I've done a few school visits locally, through word of mouth, and in 2001 Troll sent me to the Tampa, Florida, area to talk to eight schools as part of a government-funded reading program called RIF.

Mel: I REMEMBER the RIF program: Reading Is Fundamental!

Joanne: Yes, RIF is a fabulous program, and sometimes the first time a child is given a book of his/her own.

g_logger: Joanne, there are currently 12 million foster children in the U.S. and what I'm trying to do is write a Foster Child's "Bill of Rights" and get it into the hands of every child/parent involved in that system. Do you think that a book would be feasible?

Joanne: Wow, g_logger, that is a great idea! My niece was adopted through the foster care system so I know what a nightmare it can be. I think this sounds feasible, but your most likely publisher might be an advocacy group or a government agency, rather than a book or a magazine publisher.

Mel: Can you tell us about opportunities at Elance, Joanne? What is that web site organization, and how might we join?

Joanne: Elance is an online database where publishers and writers can find each other. Major educational publishers such as McGraw-Hill use it to find writers for their state testing programs. I believe a writer needs to have some experience to join. There is an online application form that is quite detailed, and asks for experience and writing samples. I believe sometimes you might have to pay a fee. Then you receive e-mails when the publisher is looking for a writer, and you bid on the project. I've gotten a lot of work from this, and it is an efficient and professional way to get yourself known to big clients. Elance's URL is:

g_logger: Is McGraw-Hill, Tim McGraw and Faith Hill? Just a joke, not a question!

Joanne: McGraw-Hill—I love it! :-) You know, I never even thought of that. If they decide to change careers, they've got it made!

kelmar: How can you "grab" an educational publisher in a cover letter?

Joanne: How to grab a publisher—be succinct and get to the point! A cover letter should start with the basic fact that you are a writer who would like to work for that company (or who has an idea that you'd like them to consider) and briefly explain your qualifications or your idea. But don't try to sum up everything in the letter! My rule of thumb is one paragraph to say hello and why I'm writing, one paragraph to talk about my background, and one paragraph to thank them for their time and provide contact information. Also, if someone has recommended you, mention that in the first paragraph. It's not name-dropping, it's networking! :-)

Mel: SUPER and SUCCINCT summary, Joanne! Are there any "taboo" subjects to avoid in educational writing?

Joanne: Oh, yes, lots, especially in readers and test passages. Avoid violence, guns, gambling, sex, ethnic or gender stereotypes, and anything that could upset a reader. Of course, if you've been assigned a book on gun control or gang wars or something, this doesn't apply, but in general, publishers shy away from anything controversial. Witchcraft is another no-no.

Mel: IS there a publisher that MIGHT even publish a book about gun control?
Joanne: Lucent comes instantly to mind—they have several series that deal with controversial issues and they publish for older readers—twelve and up.

Mel: I was THINKing of Lucent, and of Enslow Publishers, too.

Joanne: Yes, Enslow is another one! And Chelsea House is another one, for sure. Possibly Scholastic, although they are a tough market to crack.

Mel: Here are Joanne Mattern's titles published by Enslow Publishers: Under their EXPLORERS (grade 3) topic in 2004: Leif Ericson. For their TRANSPORTATION AND COMMUNICATION series in 2002: From Radio to the Wireless Web, The History of Radio and Telephones. BRAVA, Joanne!!!

Joanne: They were great books! And next year, two books on holidays!

Mel: WOW, how PRODUCTIVE you are! What are those two book titles?

Joanne: Cinco de Mayo and Columbus Day.

Joanne: I want to make a point about "good ideas." There are only so many topics to write about, so make sure yours stands out in some way. Here's an example from my own career: I wanted to write about endangered animals, but there are already a zillion books on that topic. Then I read a newspaper article about different ways some species are being saved, and I wrote a proposal on creative and unusual ways endangered animals were being helped. That became a book called Going, Going, Gone? Saving Endangered Animals, which was published by Perfection Learning. So always try to look for a fresh perspective or new slant, whatever your topic.

Mel: THANKS for making that significant point!

gcmsteacher: Do you need permission from the person to write a biography about a public figure?

Joanne: No. Being a public figure means that anyone can write about them. Of course, you don't want to say anything libelous, but just writing about their life and achievements is perfectly acceptable. Also, publishers aren't just looking for books about really famous people. Anyone who has accomplished something is a good topic. The Oliver Press publishes a biographical series called "Innovators" that includes both famous and lesser-known achievers in a particular field. I just wrote a book for them on Innovators in Agriculture, and I'm sure there are people in there you've never heard of!

Mel: Here are Joanne Mattern's books for Oliver Press: Agriculture: Feeding the World (grades 5-up), 2005 and Obesity: Trouble at the Table (grades 5-up), 2005.

gcmsteacher: Do publishers provide a suggested vocabulary list for grade-leveled publications?

Joanne: Usually, yes. Also, a great resource is The Children's Writer's Word Book by Alejandra Mogilner, published by Writer's Digest Books. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS!! It's available in major bookstores or online.

gcmsteacher: How do you know you are writing at the appropriate grade level?

Joanne: The publisher usually sends you very specific guidelines. Also, for reading level you can use readability programs, such as the *Flesch-Kincaid program in Microsoft Word. I know Mel has explained how to find this in a Tuesday forum. It's on the Tools bar, under Spelling and Grammar. Click TOOLS, then OPTIONS, then SPELLING AND GRAMMAR. In that box, check "Show readability statistics," and after each time you spellcheck a document, it will give the grade level.

gcmsteacher: Great suggestions. Thanks!

Mel: Related to that last question, how do I know what grade level my writing is suitable for?

Joanne: You can do a readability test, of course. But I think you can tell by comparing it to other works. Look at books on similar topics and see how yours compares. Is yours harder to read, for example? I think most writers have a natural "voice"—for example, I find I write best for 8-12-year-olds. I don't know why, but I just do. Also, overexplaining and simplifying is generally good unless you're writing complicated books for teens.

Mel: Joanne, are there any drawbacks to the educational market?

Joanne: Some people don't like the idea of being assigned a topic or having to write to a specific reading level or word count. Also, deadlines tend to be very tight, especially for readers and test passages. And most of the jobs are work-for-hire, rather than royalty. But if you love nonfiction, love to research, and like the challenge of making educational publishing fun, this could be a great field for you! Also, you don't need an agent to get a job. :-) And it takes just as much imagination to write educational nonfiction as it does to write a picture book or novel, in my opinion—maybe even more! Kids don't want to be bored, and they are quick to stop reading anything dry or dull!

Mel: What a PLUS not having to have an agent really is! What, more exactly, are the hi-lo books you mentioned earlier, Joanne?

Joanne: It's an acronym for HIgh interest level, LOw reading level. These are books for kids who aren't reading at grade level, but don't want to read "baby" books. For example, a 6th grader might be reading at a 2nd-grade level, but s/he doesn't want to be caught dead with a picture book or an easy reader! So publishers design books that will interest her/him, but not be so hard to read that they get frustrated. These books tend to be about exciting topics, such as weird animals, natural disasters, or sports. Capstone, ABDO, and Rourke are all big publishers in this market--look at some of their books in the library!...

Joanne: Also, hi-lo books usually contain glossaries to explain difficult vocabulary. Whew, long answer!

Mel: More INFORMATIVE than long, Joanne! Here are Joanne Mattern's books published by Capstone, and Rourke: Capstone Press: Countries and Cultures Series: India and Ireland (ages 8-12; hi-lo), 2003. The Great Outdoors Series: Orienteering (ages 8-12; hi-lo), 2004. For their Learning About Cats Series (ages 8-12; hi-lo) 2000-2002: The Abyssinian, The Birman, The Maine Coon, The Ocicat, The Persian, The Siamese, The American Shorthair, The Exotic, The Manx, The Oriental, The Ragdoll and The Sphynx. For Capstone's Native Peoples Series: Shawnee and Shoshone (ages 6-9; hi-lo), 2001. And for their Wildlife of North America Series (ages 8-12; hi-lo), 1998: The Bighorn Sheep and The Coyote.

Joanne: Your answer was longer, Mel! :-).

Mel: A cute "cat tale," thanks to g_logger:

Joanne: No one can figure cats out! Our Lacey does something similar—she digs at the covers like she's trying to burrow underneath them! Ha—our crazy Dylan just ran in here, clawed at the door, meowed, and ran out.

Mel: Ha-ha—catlaughs! Can you give us more detail about what are leveled readers, Joanne?

Joanne: Leveled readers are used in classrooms and are aimed at specific grade levels. They include very specific vocabulary and grammar. Sometimes they are used to fill in the gaps in a curriculum program. For example, I wrote a second-grade book on Molly Pitcher that was used in a study of the American Revolution.

Mel: How do you write test preparation packages?

Joanne: You get VERY specific guidelines for these from the publisher, generally a grade level, word count, and topic. And you have to include information that the kids can be questioned on. So things like sequence of events and what is the main point? need to be kept in mind.

Mel: Here are Joanne Mattern's titles for McGraw-Hill, including the Molly Pitcher book. For their Science 2000 Adventure Books: Claws and Wings and Other Neat Things (3^rd grade), 2000. For their Social Studies Adventures Books: The Story of Molly Pitcher (2^nd grade), 1999 and The Trojan Horse (6^th grade), 1999.

Joanne: All of these are leveled readers that were used in classrooms.

Mel: They sound REALLY HIGH interest! How do you write classroom materials?

Joanne: Again, you are usually given specific guidelines by the publisher as far as topic, word count, and even how many sentences should be on each page.

Mel: THAT is very SPECIFIC! Do you find restrictions like that at all hard to live with?

Joanne: Sometimes, but usually I'm happy to have the guidelines. It's easier than writing and then having the publisher say it's too long or too hard or whatever!

Mel: How, again, for those who may have just joined us, do you approach an educational publisher for assignments?

Joanne: Write to them and explain your credentials and why you think you—or your book—would be a good fit for them. Then stay in touch, so they will remember you when an appropriate project comes along. I sent semi-annual letters and updates to Capstone press for almost two years before they gave me an assignment. But I've done multiple series for them—including one about cats! That's another good thing about educational publishing—once you get "in" with a publisher, they tend to use you again and again.

Mel: How do you know your writing would fit better in the educational market than it would in the trade market?

Joanne: I think the topic is the main thing. Of course, there are plenty of trade books about nonfiction topics, but most have a more "literary" slant. If your writing is more matter-of-fact or you have a knack for explaining things, the educational market could be a great fit for you. And there's nothing to stop you from publishing in both markets, or using credits in one market to get a contract in the other.

Mel: Are there any subjects that are in GREATEST demand?

Joanne: Editors LOVE authors who can write about the hard sciences—chemistry, physics, astronomy, and I am not one of these authors! :-) Math is another topic that is in demand, and writers who can also create hands-on projects or experiments kids can do. History and social sciences are big too.

Mel: What sources do you use for research?

Joanne: Editors prefer adult books on the topic, not books written for children. Although it's good to be aware of what has been published for children. Magazine and newspaper articles are good, and I use the Internet A LOT (but always check that the sources are reliable! A museum is much better than "Joe's Web site about Frogs"!). And if you can interview an expert, that is a big plus! These "experts" can be found online at museum or professional organizations.

kjackson88: About how long does it take you to write a 4000-word book?

Joanne: I'm pretty quick. The actual writing would take about a week or two, but I would have spent several weeks beforehand doing research and gathering information.

Mel: WOW, you are a PRO, Joanne Mattern!

gcmsteacher Do you pitch an idea in your semi-annual letters?

Joanne: No, I would do that in a letter just for that purpose. The semi-annual letters are just to say hello, talk about what I've been doing, etc. If I've published a book that is similar to stuff that company does I will certainly mention that and even include a sample copy. It's just a way to keep yourself in the editor's line of sight!

Mel: Joanne, I've been dreading to see this time come in our chat, when we must draw it to a close. THANK YOU for sharing your expertise with us this evening! It's easy to see how you have become SO successful in educational writing. You have given us the good feeling that we, too, might get started in educational publishing; and I sense that many here are interested, and would like to ask further questions about your field of educational publishing. Would you be willing to come back someday to chat with us again? It would be so GOOD if you could.

Joanne: I can't believe it's time to go already! I hope I've been helpful and encouraged you to try this exciting and overlooked field. And yes, I'd LOVE to come back. Thank you SO much!

Mel: Our next Guest Chat will be with Kent Brown, the editor-in-chief of the very successful and long-lived children's magazine, Highlights For Children. Kent wears a lot of hats in publishing, from book publishing to an active role in IBBY, the International Board on Books for Young People. Yet, wearing all those important hats, his head has never grown too big for any of them. If you are fortunate enough to go to Highlights For Children's annual July conference in Chautauqua, New York, you will likely find Kent carrying people's bags to their rooms. There is the whole, vast array of the aspects of children's writing and publishing that Kent Brown takes an active hand in, so the subjects for your questions will be endless. "See you" December 18?

Mel: Again, Joanne Mattern, we REALLY appreciate your coming to chat with us tonight! It has been one evening of HUGE learning, I know. I have wanted, myself, to know more about educational publishing, and you even anticipated, and clearly answered questions that I had. I will be looking forward, and I know our other chatsters will too, to your coming back to be with us again. THANK YOU so MUCH for all you have given us this evening, Joanne!

Joanne: Thank you! I am glad to help and chat with so many writers!

Mel: Goodnight, everychildren'swriter!