Instititute of Children's Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"Writing Historical Fiction" with Jane Buchanan.

Thursday, September 19, 2002

Moderator is Kristi Holl, web editor for this site and author of 24 books and 150+ articles. She also taught writing for children for 15 years.

Jane is Jane Buchanan, author of three historical novels for middle-grade readers, GRATEFULLY YOURS (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1997), HANK'S STORY (FSG 2001), and the forthcoming MONKEY SUMMER (FSG 2003). GRATEFULLY YOURS was nominated for readers choice awards in seven states and is a Scholastic Book Club selection.

Names color coded in blue are viewers who had questions.

Interviews are held on Thursday nights for two hours beginning [9 CANADA/Atlantic], 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening, everyone! I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator, and I'm here tonight with Jane Buchanan, who will be speaking on "Writing Historical Fiction." Jane is the author of three historical novels for middle-grade readers, GRATEFULLY YOURS (Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1997), HANK'S STORY (FSG 2001), and the forthcoming MONKEY SUMMER (FSG 2003). GRATEFULLY YOURS was nominated for readers choice awards in seven states and is a Scholastic Book Club selection. Welcome, Jane!

Jane: Hi! I'm happy to be here!

Moderator: Jane, can you tell us how you got started writing in the first place?

Jane: I started out in journalism. I was going to save the world!

Moderator: What exactly is Historical Fiction?

Jane: Historical fiction is fiction written in current time about a past time. It's not contemporary fiction written in the past. Historical fiction is a story that's written now and that is about a past era. I could write about the depression era, for example, and that would be historical fiction. If I were living in the depression era, and writing about it at the time, that would be contemporary to my time, so it wouldn't be historical.

Moderator: Does historical fiction have to revolve around an historical event or does just setting the story in the past suffice?

Jane: I don't think it has to revolve around an event. Often it does, because it's a way of helping to explain or illuminate events, especially in children's literature.

Moderator: How long have you been writing historical fiction?

Jane: Almost as long as I've been writing. I started writing for children in 1985. The book I'm finishing up now was begun around that time.

saraj: Can you tell us why the book you're finishing now has taken l7 years to write?

Jane: I think in part because it was based on true stories. It's taken me a long time to be able to make it my story. That is, I had to make these tails about my mother and her monkey my own, and make the characters my own. It's hard to explain. The book's been finished many times, but it's only recently found a home with an editor who'll work with me on it.

Moderator: How do you get ideas for historical fiction?

Jane: My two Orphan Train books came from listening to a report on public radio back in 1991. Monkey Summer is based on stories about my mother's childhood.

jim: Is the 1990's historical? When does it start?

Jane: That's a good question, and one that's subject to debate. To me, historical in children's literature begins before the readers were born. So, the Sixties are certainly historical, and even the Seventies and Eighties. The Nineties would be pushing it, I think.

Moderator: Do you first spot an event you want to write about, or a character?

Jane: I've done both. For me, fiction begins with good characters. My Orphan Train books both began with characters. I learned about the movement, and a character immediately took shape in my head. Then came the hard part: finding out enough historical information to make a book!

Moderator: Why do you write historical fiction? Have you always loved history?

Jane: If you asked my former history teachers they'd probably say no! But I'm always drawn to stories that make me say, "Imagine what it would have been like!" History does that for me.

duck: Do you have a favorite age group for Historical Fiction?

Jane: Middle grade--8 to 12--is the age I seem to write for most naturally. I'm working on a picture book, though, sent at the turn of the last century in Erie.

Moderator: What kind of market is there today for historical fiction?

Jane: I think the market is strong. Historical fiction is used often in schools. So stories that fit with the curriculum are going to be popular with teachers, and with editors, because there's a built in market.

mbvoelker: I've read many historical books where the characters were modern people in fancy costumes. How do you manage to make your characters be people of their own time -- acting and thinking in the way that historical people did -- while still making them appeal to modern readers?

Jane: That's a real challenge. A lot of research is required. You have to get a real sense of the time. But I do think there's a place for characters who don't fit the mold of their time. Certainly each generation has people who are different. That's how change happens. So, done carefully, and by making clear that this character is not the norm, I think a writer can justify that.

Moderator: How do you deal with historical attitudes that are not accepted or "politically correct" today and still be accurate to the times?

Jane: Ah, another real challenge. There are a couple of answers to this. Sometimes books that aren't politically correct just don't get published. But, again, I think handled carefully, by making clear to readers that this is the way it was then, it can be done. This can mean having a character who is questioning the norm of the day, for example. Or you could have characters on both sides of an issue.

duck: I am still a student and sometimes feel insecure about my own ideas. I think Historical Fiction may give me an outlet to feel more comfortable about an event or era I know. Do you think new writers should try this?

Jane: Sure. I think if you find an era that speaks to you, you should certainly give it a try. I don't think it would work for everyone, but I find reading nonfiction books and history magazines a great source of ideas.

picketfencemom: How much time do you spend on research before you actually start the writing process?

Jane: It depends on the book. My first Orphan Train book I spent about six months researching. The second took less time. My monkey book has taken a longer time, especially since the current incarnation also involves polio. I like to get the small details right, and that's sometimes difficult.

Moderator: How do I find sources for historical information? What are some of your favorite research sources?

Jane: Well, you're talking to a former reference librarian. My favorite source, naturally, is a good librarian. But I've got a lot of other backups. It depends somewhat on the topic. I like to use as many primary sources as possible, so that I'm hearing the words and experiences of people who were there. For my orphan books, I had stories from actual orphan train riders. I also use newspaper accounts from the time, if they're available. Regional historical societies are a wealth of information and always glad to help. And there are organizations for just about everything. The Encyclopedia of Associations is available in most libraries and it gives the contact information for groups on just about any subject.

Moderator: Could you define "primary" sources for us?

Jane: Primary sources are things like letters, diaries, first person accounts. They're useful because you rely on them for realism. I hesitate to say accuracy, because we all know that sometimes our own observations aren't necessarily accurate. But they are real experiences, and when you're trying to create "real" characters, there's nothing like some authentic sources.

anne-marie-p: There seem to have been a number of successful books that revolve around the orphan train, including yours. How can you tell when the market is saturated with a particular topic?

Jane: Well, that's difficult, Anne-Marie. When I was writing my first Orphan Train book, there was nothing on the market. In the five years it took to find a publisher, and the two years it took to get the book out, a number of books hit the shelves. So, you never know, really. I think if you're passionate about the subject, then you have to write the book. Let the market take care of itself. You have no control over that part!

mbvoelker: What things are critical in bringing a past world to life for your readers?

Jane: Authentic characters, I think, are vital. Detail, too, is important. I spend a lot of time researching clothing, furniture, kitchens. I have a whole book about the history of the American kitchen. It's great! Getting a sense of the language of the day, the slang, too, is useful. And other little things like music, books, film. I think the whole package has to come together to create a setting, a place and time.

Moderator: How can you find out "nuts and bolts" things like how far you can travel in a day under various circumstances, what foods would be on your plate regularly, what clothing is worn during a certain period, etc.?

Jane: This depends on the era, of course. I spent a good deal of time with my current monkey book trying to find out how much it cost to take the train from Gloucester, Mass., to Boston in 1943. I finally found it by contacting the historian for the Boston and Maine Railroad, who I found online. He was quite helpful, but when I started researching this, the web site wasn't set up yet, so it took a while! There are also some great books that most libraries have or can get for you. One of my favorite places to start is a set called This Fabulous Century. It has all kinds of tidbits about America in the 1900s. Again, ask your librarian!

jim: I saw a 1950 phone number given out in 7 digits instead of the 2 letters or name and 5 digits used back then. How do I avoid these silly mistakes?

Jane: I'm afraid there are always going to be some mistakes. If you're lucky, you'll have a copyeditor who catches these things before they get into print. But finding expert readers is one way to do it. Or even a writers' group. It's amazing when you get a group of writers together how much knowledge there is. There will be members of a writers' group who are experts in a wide variety of areas!

Moderator: How do I search on the web for historical information?

Jane: Very carefully! As I'm sure you know, sites can be posted by anyone, and so their reliability is always questionable. So try to check your source. That said, in terms of mechanics, I always use Google to search the web. As a librarian I find a lot of people come in and say, "I looked on the web and I couldn't find anything." Well, there are tricks. First, if you're searching for a term, put it in quotes. Like, "Orphan Train". That way your browser will search for the term, rather than the individual words. Google even lets you eliminate terms, if you put a minus sign in front of them. It's really the best search engine for this sort of thing. Beyond mechanics, you can use the web to find experts, sites specializing in what you're researching. If the web had been around when I was doing my research on Orphan Trains, I'd have shaved months off my research time!

Moderator: How much value are Internet sources (in the eyes of editors)?

Jane: In my experience, my editor doesn't care where I got my information as long as it's correct. In fact, she's never once asked! However, the copyeditors at FSG sometimes question things, and I do have to double check. I think, though, that sites put up by reputable organizations are pretty reliable, as are sites put up by universities and that sort of thing. The ones you have to be careful about are those posted by people who are just interested in a subject. That's not to say the information would be wrong, but you want to double check it. By asking your friendly local reference librarian, for example!

Moderator: Can you have real historic people make cameo appearances in historical fiction?

Jane: Certainly people to. It's not something I've done, nor is it something I'm comfortable with. I think it's the journalist in me. But I know a couple years ago an editor was asking specifically for fiction featuring historical figures.

Moderator: Can you make up dialogue for the real historic figures to say?

Jane: Not in my book! I had a discussion recently about this with an online friend. She'd been told you could use historical figures but you couldn't put words in their mouths. You have to use only words that can be documented. I think that would be difficult--finding language that fits your story. Others don't feel this way at all. It really depends on the editor or the publishing house.

Moderator: Any tips on including dialect? It's hard to write well!

Jane: It is hard to write well, and I tend to avoid it. I find it difficult to read, as well. I debated this in my monkey book because as you may know folks in the Boston area have a rather distinctive way of talking. But I don't think it's essential to capturing a region. I think turns of phrase matter more.

Moderator: Can you recommend some basic resources for research? (Like, where do you actually start?)

Jane: Well, as hokey as it sounds, I often start with an encyclopedia. We always had a World Book at home when I was growing up, and my father used it for everything! Now, I have one that my son got when he was eight, and I use it often. It's a great place to get some basic information. (Of course it had nothing on the Orphan Train.) I also go to my library's online magazine article database and see whether anything's been written on the subject. If it has, I try to look up the author and/or the experts who've been quoted. They're often associated with colleges or other institutions that have web sites, so you can usually track them down, and they most often like to be helpful. Again, historical societies are also most helpful, and they often have web sites these days. They'll do research for you for a fee. Those are some starting points. I also read a lot of fiction written during the time I'm researching to give me a flavor.

Moderator: How can I find experts on my subject? [And who qualifies as an expert?]

Jane: Well, I guess "expert" is a hard term to define when it comes to historical research, but the Encyclopedia of Associations is a place to try. Historical societies can help find experts as well. For train research I've spoken to train museum curators. There are museum directories, too, and they'll have experts. The Smithsonian Institution is certainly a great resource as is the Library of Congress. While I haven't visited them myself, I have friends who live closer who've found them quite valuable. And they have extensive web sites.

suesunflower: Is it acceptable to do all of your research using only the Internet?

Jane: I think as long as you're finding the information you need, it should be fine. As I say, my editor has never asked where I got my information.

Moderator: Jane, how long do you spend researching a book compared to the actual writing of it?

Jane: I spent six months researching my first orphan book and three months writing it. My second orphan book was a bit quicker because I had the time and place down. I did have to do a lot of research on wildlife as that was a big part of that one. As for the 17-year monster I'm working on now, that's hard to say!

Moderator: How accurate do I have to be when writing historical fiction?

Jane: Accuracy is vital as far as I'm concerned, especially in children's books. This is often where kids get history. If you give it to them wrong, you've done them a great injustice. It comes up most often in debate when discussing multicultural literature. There's been so much misinformation given about native cultures, for example, that there's a great sensitivity there. But when Gratefully Yours was nearly finished, I had a moment of panic. Readers were going to know I'd never been to Nebraska. I had to go to Nebraska! My husband pointed out that that wasn't really practical, and so I didn't go, but I fretted. Then, when the book came out, one of the children's librarians came up to me and said, "You know Jane, I grew up on a farm in Nebraska around this time." Oh, did I panic. But she said I'd gotten it right. That was such a relief!

Saraj: How much time do you take doing the revision part?

Jane: I can take years. Gratefully Yours, as I said, took three months to write. It took five years to sell. I got a lot of really great rejections, and many had good suggestions, so I polished it over the years. Then, just before I sold it, I got a long detailed letter and I did an in-depth revision. I sold it three weeks later--to a different house. The monkey book, as you can imagine, has been revised numerous times. I've got a bin full of revised editions. And I just heard from my editor today that her notes on further revisions are in the mail. It's a never-ending process!

marylois: Do you back up your research with bibliographies and glossaries?

Jane: No, I never have. My editor has never asked. And I don't really write the kind of stuff that requires a glossary.

Moderator: How much history can I make up? Can I invent a tornado or tidal wave where they are prone to happen anyway?

Jane: That's a little dicey, I think. I have a blizzard in my orphan train books, but that seemed pretty safe since it was the Great Plains in winter. But the copyeditor did catch me when I tried to make it too dusty early in Hank's Story. She had a reference book that told her it wasn't that bad a drought that year and so it wouldn't have been that dusty in 1923. I'm currently trying to find a year that was stormy on Thanksgiving on the Great Lakes for a book idea I have, but I don't dare make it up. There's always going to be someone out there who catches you on it!

Moderator: Do you set your stories in real places, or make up your own towns and cities?

Jane: I use real places but I don't name them if I can help it. That's for a lot of reasons. First, it's not really important to the story--it's just important to me. My book that's coming out in the spring, The Berry-Picking Man, is set in my hometown, but it's not important that readers know that.

suesunflower: Is it difficult to research things like period clothing, social customs and slang?

Jane: It is. One of the things that's currently popular are writers' guides to certain periods in history. I'm always cautious about those because they aren't specific enough. They might say that a certain slang term was popular in the Twenties, for example. Well, when in the Twenties? Where? Just because something is done in the cities in 1923, when my orphan books are set, doesn't mean they were done in the country. Just because something was a popular term in 1929 doesn't mean anyone was saying it in 1923. Same goes for fashion. While Sears Catalogs might show you what was high fashion, they won't tell you what country kids were wearing to school.

marylois: Do you use real people in your stories - not as POV or primary characters, but as people in the story?

Jane: I don't tend to. I do mention historical people in context. My monkey book, for example, is set during world War II. I mention a lot of baseball players from the time. But no, my characters don't run into historical figures.

Moderator: Let's talk about the whole subject of accuracy: why does it matter that much?

Jane: Well, I think it's important to present a true picture of history. People, children and adults, often cull history from fiction. If we don't get it right, were giving them a skewed view. That's just wrong. There have been studies recently showing how little we Americans know about our history. I think it's vital that we try to get it as right as possible.

Moderator: What periods of history are editors most interested in? And is there a "glut" for a particular time period?

Jane: I think they're interested first and foremost in good stories. But there is certainly a market for books that can be used in schools to complement the curriculum. So a lot of American history is published. I'm not aware of a glut in any area. I think, again, you have to write what you're passionate about. If it's a good book, it will find a home.

Moderator: Do you include the historical details in your rough draft, or just write the story and put in the details during revisions?

Jane: I do both. I have to have a pretty good idea of the historical context before I start writing, though. Otherwise, I don't know what challenges my character faces. I will skip over things and go back to them though, so I don't hamper the flow as I'm writing.

marylois: What is a good rule of thumb when writing historical fiction about the proportion of each? Some books seem more fiction than history, and some seem heavily historical with less fiction.

Jane: Boy, that's difficult to say. I think it really depends on the book and the writer. For me, it's character that's most important. In my orphan books, I put an author's note at the beginning to explain the movement. I wanted it to be about what these orphans went through on an emotional level.

Moderator: Do you let someone (like a professor or historian) read your manuscript for accuracy before sending it to a publisher?

Jane: I haven't. I do have people I know check things I'm unsure of. I have a friend from New Hampshire who has a farm, so I always run farm details past her, for example. With Hank's Story, I had my father, who's an avid birder, check a lot of my bird facts. My mother and her brother have been great sources for the monkey book, because they lived with him. And my uncle has been great about providing information about coastal life at the time.

Moderator: If you're writing historical nonfiction (a biography), but you add made-up dialogue and incidents, is it then classified as historical fiction?

Jane: It would be in my mind. I don't think you should ever make up anything in nonfiction. Again, it's the journalist in me.

Moderator: Where do you draw the line between creative nonfiction and historical fiction?

Jane: It's fuzzy, for sure. I think writers get away with a lot by adding that word "creative." Look at the biography of Reagan that came out a few years ago. The author put himself in it. Many libraries classified it as fiction. But a book like The Perfect Storm is classified as fiction. I think if you postulate rather than state as fact you're safer.

Moderator: Is there a market for historical fiction picture books?

Jane: Absolutely. There have been many successful ones. Pink and Say is the first to spring to my mind, but there are many others. I think they tend to go to the older end of the market. Not a lot for the preschoolers!

picketfencemom: Were there any historical fiction writers who influenced you early on? Or certain books that influenced you in any way as to the direction you wanted to take in your own writing?

Jane: Not historical fiction writers so much. I think the book that influenced me most was The Yearling. It's interesting because I was reading Katherine Paterson's book, The Invisible Child, recently. She has a whole essay on how The Yearling affected her.

Moderator: Your books have been so successful and very popular with children! Can you tell us what intrigued you about the various historical subjects you've written about?

Jane: I can still remember standing in the kitchen in 1991 listening to the radio and hearing Scott Simon interview two women who were in NYC for an orphan train riders' reunion. I had goose bumps. The story just grabbed me and wouldn't let go. I'd never heard of the orphan train. I was shocked. My monkey book was the result of listening to my mother talk about two specific experiences she had with the monkey. One was a disastrous train ride; the other was when she went to visit the monkey in the zoo after they gave it away. She was telling me about it and crying. It had happened fifty years earlier. It was a touching moment and I knew there was a story there.

Moderator: I'm sorry to have to stop now, but we've run out of time. Jane, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us tonight on the subject of historical fiction and your methods of research. We wish you continued good success with your novels!

Jane: Thanks so much. I enjoyed it!

Moderator: We all did! Thanks again, and good night, everyone!

Return to Transcripts

93 Long Ridge Road, West Redding, CT 06896
Phone: (203) 792-8600 (800) 243-9645
Fax: (203) 792-8406
E-Mail: WebEditor@institutechildrenslit.com

Copyright � The Institute, Inc., 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
No part of the electronic transmission to which this notice is appended may be reproduced or redistributed in any form or manner without the express written permission of The Institute, Inc.