“Writing, Publishing—and Everything in Between” with James Cross Giblin

                                           Thursday, July 15, 2004

Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with James Cross Giblin and web editor of the ICL site.

Jim is James Cross Giblin, who was Children’s Editor at Clarion Books, an imprint name he created during his more than 25 years there.  His quarter-century at that publishing house set a record for children’s editors at a time when editors moved from house to house very frequently.  Following his impressive record at Clarion, Jim Giblin continued to edit some of the authors he had helped into print at Clarion and also began his now-distinguished career as an award-winning children’s writer in his own right.  Jim is the author of many excellent books for children, both fiction and nonfiction.  He has authored Charles A. Lindbergh: A Human Hero, The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler, Chimney Sweeps Yesterday and Today, The Riddle of the Rosetta Stone: Key to Ancient Egypt, The Mystery of the Mammoth Bones and How It Was Solved, The Truth About Unicorns, and The Truth About Santa Claus.  James Cross Giblin is now completing a dual biography of actor Edwin Booth and his brother, John Wilkes, to be published in 2005.

Green shows the user names of the people and their questions asked of Jim Giblin.

 

Mel: I am so glad you came to the ICL Chat Room tonight! Our very special editor guest is James Cross Giblin. I have been arranging to have him as our guest for nearly a year now, and the time I have eagerly looked forward to is finally here. Jim Giblin has been busy with many projects through this past fall, winter and spring, including his newest book, not yet published, about actor Edwin Booth and his better-known brother, John Wilkes. I know from experience that you are well worth waiting for as a presenter, Jim, and as a warm person who children's writers have found very approachable, caring, and helpful both in getting started and going on in writing for children. THANK YOU so MUCH for taking time from your busy schedule to come and chat with us this July evening. WELCOME to the ICL Chat Room, Jim!

Jim: Hello, everybody, and I look forward to meeting you through your questions.

Mel: Jim, you must have had influences from books as a child growing up. Were you read to, and was either of your parents a writer?

Jim: Neither of my parents was a writer, although my father, a lawyer, wrote poetry on occasion. He also made up bedtime stories to tell me. But it was my mother, a former French teacher and also a lawyer, who read to me starting at a very early age. And later she introduced me to the public library in our town.

Mel: What a MARVELOUS start for someone who would be an editor and writer for children one day! As I recall, you FIRST wanted to become a playwright after college, isn't that right? And tell us also please about your experience in acting, during your college days.

Jim: Yes, I did want to be a playwright, and I had a fair amount of encouragement including a Broadway option. Before that I did do some acting, in high school, college, and professionally in summer stock in Ohio and Pennsylvania (I grew up near Cleveland).

Mel: A Broadway option--that sounds very INTRIGUING--what was that about?

Jim: Young and naive (I was 23), I adapted a well-known novel by William Styron, Lie Down In Darkness, and there was considerable excitement about it for a while. But after Julie Harris turned down the leading role (after considering it for six months) the excitement dissipated, and I was left holding the bag because, of course, I had no legal rights in the material. At that point I needed a job, and that was when I stumbled into book publishing.

Mel: GREAT drama, that, Jim! When did you have your FIRST inkling that you wanted to be an editor?

Jim: Soon after I got into the book business. I started as a sales rep on the road for a small house, and though I did a pretty good job, I knew I didn't want to continue selling. I wanted to help create the books, and that led first to a job in publicity at a long-gone imprint, Criterion Books, and then to editorial work. Actually, I got into editorial by convincing my boss I could do two jobs—publicity and editorial—if I just had a little secretarial help. That was in 1960, and I've been involved with editing in one way or another ever since.

Mel: When did you begin as children's editor at Clarion Books, Jim?

Jim: It wasn't Clarion when I began there—I thought of that name for the imprint in 1974. Before that it was Seabury Books for Young People, and I started the job just 37 years ago, on July 1, 1967.

Mel: Ohmigosh, you were more influential as an editor than I even THOUGHT, naming the imprint and all! ...

Jim: That was under pressure, actually. My boss—although I didn't know it then—thought the firm might be sold some day, and each imprint would be easier to sell if it had its own name. Hence Clarion.

Mel: What changes did you see in publishing JUST in your time at Clarion?

Jim: There have been so many I don't know where to begin. I guess the biggest has been a shift from less-pressured situations where the editor was in complete charge to much more complicated situations where the marketing people have a much bigger say.

Mel: Did you not set a record, being over 25 years at Clarion? Or is there another record set for more years by an editor?

Jim: Now that Phyllis Fogelman has retired at Dial I may be the editor who's been longest at one house. But no one equals Margaret McElderry, who at 93 has been in children's library and publishing work since 1933, the year I was born.

Mel: You also saw a number of now-prominent children's authors on their way into great careers. May I ask who were some of the authors you edited at Clarion?

Jim: I'm still editing many of them—Mary Downing Hahn, Marion Dane Bauer, Eileen Christelow, Eve Bunting. And they all came to us originally via the so-called slush pile.

Mel: A veritable Children's Writers Hall of Fame!

Jim: They're awfully good—and great fun to work with.

iamret: What makes the authors you mentioned fun to work with?

Jim: None of them had agents—and none of them does today. As to what makes them fun to work with, they come up with good ideas, and most important they know how to revise. That doesn't mean they always agree with our revision suggestions. But when they disagree, it always leads to a constructive discussion.

Mel: You've become an award-winning children's writer yourself, Jim. How and where and when did that begin to come about?

Jim: Well, I always wanted to get back to writing, and I finally did, starting with some professional articles about trips I took to China and Cuba in the late 70s, and then some writing for children, starting with an article about skyscrapers that Cricket accepted after I revised and expanded it. I started small because I didn't know if I could bring it off—writing for children, that is.

Mel: I'd say you brought it off for SURE!

Jim: And then I did my first two books—The Scarecrow Books—in 1980 and The Skyscraper Book in 1981. The latter was a development of the Cricket article.

Mel: Where do you get the ideas for your nonfiction books?

Jim: My ideas have always come from ideas that interested me first of all—with two exceptions. The picture book biography of George Washington and the book about deciphering the Rosetta Stone were suggested to me.

spudsie: Were you always a writer, did you write as a child?

Jim: Yes, but not steadily. When I was five, and just learning to read, I loved the comic strip "Blondie." I thought of my own stories, drew the pictures, and got my mother to help me write the words in the balloons. Then I wrote some short stories in high school--one of them got an honorable mention in a Scholastic contest.

brigitsmom: How do you decide on your FOCUS for a nonfiction piece?

Jim: I think a lot about that, and often it's a matter of trial and error. For example, when I was planning the book, When Plague Strikes, I thought it would be about eight or ten different diseases—the Black Death, tuberculosis, smallpox, cholera, etc. But I realized that would get much too sprawly, so I narrowed it down to just three, the Black Death, smallpox (which has been conquered), and AIDS (which of course has not).

Mel: An EXCELLENTLY practical example, Jim!

writermom: What kind of books does Clarion publish, say, would they do middle grade to YA fantasy?

Jim: Clarion publishes high-quality, literary fiction for both middle graders and young adults (examples: Karen Cushman and Linda Sue Park), so I'm sure the editors would be open to an excellent fantasy novel for one of those groups.

mydustydesk: How is it decided what are good subjects for children's books?

Jim: If you mean an author, I think it all starts with passion—a subject the author is passionate about exploring, whether it's fiction or nonfiction. If you mean an editor, it depends on the type of publishing house he/she works for. At Clarion, which is a general list, the editors are always on the lookout for passionate authors who have their own highly individual styles and material. At, say, a publisher of series nonfiction, the editors would no doubt have slots they need to fill—subjects they need writers to write about.

gladys1: Do you find it harder to write fiction or nonfiction?

Jim: They're both hard, in different ways. With fiction, it's easier, I think, to get a flow, but harder to come up with compelling ideas and then to find the right means to express them. With nonfiction, you have to get beyond the tendency to start-and-stop because you need to check some fact in the research before you can go on. On balance, though, I guess I'd say nonfiction is harder.

Mel: Do you mean you DON'T stop to check the fact right then in nonfiction, but stay with the flow?

Jim: No—I stop to check the fact, and then sometimes it's hard to pick up the flow again. But you have to--

otherwise, the writing will be choppy.

Mel: Here are two similar questions at once, Jim:

t green: Why do some publishers and editors not like or accept simultaneous submissions?

don from denton: Hi, Mr. Giblin. Why do some publishers strongly resent simultaneous submissions?

Jim: I don't think anyone likes simultaneous submissions, but given the realities of publishing today, and the frequent delays, most publishers go along with them reluctantly. They realize authors can't afford to wait sometimes two, three years for a response. As an author myself, I see nothing wrong with them as long as you play fair and notify the other publishers when you make a sale. I also think it's to your advantage to give an exclusive submission to an editor who's accepted your work in the past. But if he/she doesn't respond in two or three months, then let him/her know you intend to show it elsewhere.

Mel: Jim, do you yourself let each publisher know it's a simultaneous submission when you simultaneously submit?

Jim: Yes, I think you should probably say the manuscript is a simultaneous submission.

Mel: Is the reason PUBLISHERS don't like simultaneous submissions that they need more TIME to consider a manuscript, or more staff to consider more manuscriptS?

Jim: No, I think it's more a feeling of "Why should I waste my own and my staff's reading time if six other publishers are considering this?" But publishers who feel that way are really (in my opinion) harking back to a time long gone when editors could read manuscripts in the office instead of spending hours in budget and marketing meetings.

Mel: This is speculation, probably, but how does the ratio of possible publishers to the number of manuscript submitters today compare with, say, 25 years ago?

Jim: I'd guess that there are probably more authors trying to break into the children's field today, and fewer publishers—far fewer that are open to reading unsolicited manuscripts by beginners. And yet beginners, in my experience, often have the freshest voices.

Mel: What is the reason there are so many fewer publishers today? Consolidation?

Jim: I don't think there are fewer publishers, really—or rather, fewer imprints. But there are fewer publishers willing to read unsolicited manuscripts.

Mel: Can you think of authors you might have missed if you hadn't read the slush pile in your days at Clarion?

Jim: Those I mentioned before—Mary Downing Hahn, Marion Dane Bauer, Eileen Christelow, Eve Bunting.

Mel: Do you think there are a greater number of writers/submitters today competing for a shrinking number of young readers?

Jim: No, I don't. Just look at the Harry Potter phenomenon. But I do think it's harder to get the attention of young readers because of all the competing claims on their time. That's why the pleasant but ordinary book that found a profitable, if not spectacular, market 30 years ago is having such a hard time today.

Mel: You're absolutely right—the Harry Potter phenomenon really highlighted just how many young readers there are who can be interested in good books!

Brigitsmom: I find there is so much information—it's hard to decide what to draw on. Do you have the same problem?

Jim: Could you be a little more specific—when you say information, do you mean research material for a nonfiction project?

Mel: Yes, I believe so, Jim.

Jim: My rule of thumb for that is, which sources, on investigation, seem to be the best and most complete ones? For example, when I was researching the Hitler biography, I dipped into many adult biographies, and some were obviously much thinner in terms of content than others. Those I spent little time on.

shemaiahjane asked this question beforehand: Given the limited content of manuscripts written for ages 0-2, what is the best way to handle the marketing aspect of the cover letter when submitting this kind of work to a publisher?

Jim: I'd keep it short and simple, to go with the type of manuscript. For example, if it's a new approach to learning colors, or to getting dressed and undressed, or to the coming of spring in the back garden, then say so, and leave it at that. You certainly don't want your cover letter to be a lot longer than the manuscript.

shemaiahjane pre-asked this question, too: I'm a green, yet skillful editor who wants and needs to learn more about my job, but my employer doesn't train and has left me to figure out far too much. What can I do to help myself know the editor's job better so I can be more efficient and have enough experience to freelance?

Jim: Before I answer, could you let me know if you work in the New York area?

Mel: Near New York, Jim, but not IN the New York City area.

Jim: The reason I asked is I know the Children's Book Council in New York City offers some good courses in children's book editing for junior staffers whose bosses don't have time to give them instruction. New York University and the New School do, too, in areas like copyediting and proofreading, which as I'm sure you know is where the most freelance opportunities are. It's much harder to get work as a manuscript reader; so many of those jobs go to people the editor once worked with elsewhere or whom he/she knows in some other way. If you're not near enough to New York to take a course, but are near another city, then I'd look into what the universities there offer in the way of editing courses, if anything.

Mel: VERY helpful tips, Jim--thanks!

Sue submitted this question before the chat: Is there room for metaphors and scenic descriptions in picture books, given the current trend to keep them at 500 to 1000 words. Is it better to avoid these completely?

Jim: I'd keep them spare, but not avoid descriptions entirely. However, I would do my best to avoid ordinary or cliched descriptions because picture book texts should ideally be like lyric poems, where every image should seem fresh and new. I'd also make sure there are sufficient descriptions so the illustrator will know what sort of settings you intend—an old house, or a sleekly modern one—a lush woodland, or a scraggly, almost desert landscape.

brigitsmom: What genre of books is in high demand right now from your publishing house?

Jim: Clarion publishes all types of individual books, from picture books for the very young to novels for young adults. Why don't you write for a recent catalog, or look at one in your local library children's room to get a better idea of the editors' tastes.

mydustydesk: I'm thinking animal fiction.

gladys1: Does Clarion Books publish talking animal stories?

Jim: I can't resist repeating here something I said at a writers' conference long ago: Yes, Clarion does as long as the animals have something interesting or funny to say.

Kelmar: I would like to submit my nonfiction picture book to a house that publishes series'—they have one series in particular that I think my book would be a perfect fit for. Would it be pretentious of me to mention that series in my cover letter? Or to mention the name of an illustrator that has done books for them who I think would be a good fit for my book?

Jim: I think it would be fine for you to mention the nonfiction series you think your project would be right for—for example, the Young Science Series at HarperCollins. But I wouldn't mention the illustrator's name. If they're interested in your project, the editor (and art director) will have their own ideas for an illustrator.

A presubmitted question from DM: What would you say to someone who thinks you're vaingloriously trying to seek fame or fortune by being a children's writer?

Mel: A bit of tongue in cheek there, I think! (-:}

Jim: I'd tell them—and it's the truth—that very few writers for children become either famous or rich. But many of them have the satisfaction of knowing that children enjoy their books.

Another presubmitted question from DM: Would you say that the way we talk as unique individuals is our "voice" as a writer, or is it the subject and POV of the story that should dictate the "voice" we use?

Jim: "Voice" in writing is an essential element, but it's one of the hardest to define. My own sense is that voice is the way we choose to express ourselves when we speak and when we write. Writers get into trouble when they lack confidence in their own voices and try to adopt the tone or style of another writer. For example, I've known a lot of hopeful picture book writers who wrote in verse because they felt that was what was wanted, and in so doing lost their own voices, which would have been much more comfortable writing in lyrical prose.

Mel: VERY insightful advice, Jim!

A pre-submitted compliment for you, Jim, from DM: I read, loved, and recommend every children's writer to study your book Writing Books for Young People. (You should see the marks in my copy!) I've read a score of publications, but this one was concise, precise, and really helped me to SEE HOW to fine tune the craft! Muchos gracias, Mr. Giblin!

Jim: Thank you, thank you. And you'll be happy to know that I'm about to start work on a revised and updated version of Writing Books for Young People which the Institute of Children’s Literature will publish.

Mel: I will be as eager as anyone to read that revision!

writermom: Do you have a minimum word count? Publishers like Tor and Daw have a minimum word count for which a middle grade or YA book would not be long enough.

Jim: Clarion has no minimum word count. We feel that every manuscript should be whatever length is required to tell the story or develop the nonfiction idea.

antibe: Clarion said one of my stories was too slight. What does that mean?

Jim: Usually that means a story doesn't seem to have the necessary depth and breadth to justify publication in book form. (Of course that doesn't mean it wouldn't work as a story in a children's magazine.) By the way, if the editor took time to tell you the work was slight, it meant he/she read it at least. You can take some small encouragement from that.

dianna: Don't some publishers automatically send rejections if you do multple submissions? I've had a few come back awfully quick!

Jim: Perhaps—it's hard to say for sure without knowing the workings of the particular publishing house.

kelmar: So If you are sending an EXCLUSIVE submission, should you mention that it is exclusive in your cover letter?

Jim: Yes, definitely.

artist: Which is more open now, children, teens or adult fields?

Jim: It's difficult to generalize, although I believe the children and teenage fields are still more open than the adult field which, as I understand it, is almost entirely closed to unsolicited submissions.

mydustydesk: How about some feedback on the submission process?

Jim: I can only speak definitively for Clarion, but I think it's pretty typical of a number of children's publishers. Once a week or so, those involved in evaluating manuscripts—the editors and associate editors—take a pile of manuscripts and go through them. Many are dismissed after a page or two because nothing stands out about them—the initial story situation and characterization, the writing style, etc. Others are set aside for further consideration, while those that fail to pass the initial screening are returned. I'm sorry to say that the vast number of submissions fall into the second category. By second category, I mean those that are returned.

A question presubmitted by Arnalda: One of my favorite places to visit is The Cloisters/ Metropolitan Museum of Art. I've already written two pieces based on some museum research, and both pieces have since been published. But sometimes I feel that, when writing about some aspect of art, an interview with an expert would be in order. Or sometimes I would just like to ask a question to further my research. What is protocol? Would payment be expected? P.S. I have kept for years and years an article you wrote for the November 1994 issue of Highlights For Children: "Painting with Wool and Silk." I plan to have my children read it before our next visit to The Cloisters. :-)

Jim: Before I answer your question, thanks for your comment about my Highlights article. It's an example of something I recommend to all nonfiction writers: Never discard research that fails to make its way into a book. "Painting with Wool and Silk" is an article about tapestries, how they were and are made, and I orginally thought it would be included in my nonfiction book, The Truth About Unicorns. But I ended up omitting it because it slowed down the narrative too much. However, I kept the research notes and a few years later proposed it as an article to Highlights—which happily encouraged and accepted it. Now to the question about experts: if you just have a particular question you'd like to ask, I'd call the institution and ask to talk to someone who is knowledgeable about the subject. That can probably be handled over the phone and not require payment, just an acknowledgment in the book or article. But if you want an expert to read and evaluate your manuscript, then you should be prepared to pay a fee. How much should be discussed between you and the expert, and will probably depend to a large extent on the length of the work.

cup: Which publishers might want historical fiction set in other countries than the United States?

Jim: I'd go to your local bookstore or library, and ask to examine the recent children's catalogs from a variety of publishers. Study their lists to see which ones are publishing historical fiction set in other countries, and query the editors to see if they'd be interested in considering your manuscript.

A presubmitted question from Annie Rasiak: In a query, how do I compare my manuscript with similar works on the market? As similar to Rebecca Davis's Jake Riley Irreparably Damaged and Theresa Golding's The Secret Within, or as similar to HarperTempest's Jake Riley Irreparably Damaged and Boyds Mills Press's The Secret Within? Would it depend on who the author or imprint is, or is there a general rule of thumb?

Jim: I wouldn't get into that unless you're querying one of the publishers in question. They're the only ones who would probably rule out a story on the grounds that it was too similar to a book they'd already published.

Doda Smith sent this greeting and question: Greetings from Scotland, UK. I see that in the past you have been a mentor to several writers. Will you be looking to mentor any more new writers in the future?

Jim: First of all, thanks for the greetings from Scotland, a place I've always wanted to visit. While I enjoy mentoring new writers, I'm not intending to do so in the future at Clarion, or on my own. I plan instead to devote most of my time to my own writing projects. But you never know....

Mel: One last question, Jim, and it's from me.

Jim: Yes?

Mel: If anyone says nonfiction must be dry and boring, they have only to read your books to find out that it is not. You seem to have written some very fanciful nonfiction, such as The Truth About Unicorns and The Truth About Santa Claus. Tell us, please, how those particular titles came to be written, and WHY you wanted to write them.

Jim: Santa Claus came first, and I wrote it because I wanted to find out how St. Nicholas, a rather dour figure from Asia Minor, had evolved into our jolly, red-faced Santa. That book was a success, and several years after it came out a librarian in Marin County, California, asked me if I'd ever considered doing a similar book about unicorns. I hadn't, but she set me to thinking, and after investigating the topic I decided I'd like to explore it further. That's how The Truth About Unicorns came about—and I'm happy to say it was a success, too.

Mel: Jim Giblin, I knew before we started that our two hours would not be nearly enough for the wealth of all you are able to share with children's writers. You can bet that we'll be reading your books to find out more about the how-to of writing for children. THANK YOU for all you have shared and taught us tonight. Would it be possible that we could get you to come back as our chat guest again sometime in the future, Jim?

Jim: Yes, I'd be glad to come—and judging by all the questions I saw you accepted, I imagine we'd easily have another two hours' worth.

Mel: In two weeks, on July 29, John Caton will be our guest in this chat room. John is a very experienced accountant, whose firm serves many people in the arts, helping them with their record keeping and income tax filing. He has been the guest of Mary Rosenblum at our sister site for the Long Ridge Writers, and in preparation you might want to read the transcript of his interview there last October. It is at: http://snipurl.com/7t38.  We wanted to have John Caton just prior to tax-paying time last April, but what he has to share will help you begin to prepare for next April 15 even NOW. And you are invited to come and talk writing and taxes with John on July 29, about what to do "Before the Tax Man Cometh." So that he can particularly tailor his chat to us children's writers, John has asked that you submit your questions ahead, before July 29. Send them to me at: webeditor@institutechildrenslit.com.

Mel: Jim Giblin, just saying thanks seems such a minor response to the WEALTH of information you have freely shared with us this evening. Thank you again, Sir, for coming to chat with us. And we wish you WELL with your Booth/Wilkes book in the months to come, and your travel schedule! Thank you so much for all you shared with us!

Jim: Thanks for inviting me. I've enjoyed the experience.

writermom: Thank you for all your insight, Mr.Giblin.

pshell: Thank you for your time and knowledge!

arnalda: Thank you, Mr. Giblin. And thank you Mel!

Mel: Goodnight, children’s writers, wherever you are!