Mel is Mel Boring, moderator of this interview with Jan Fields and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site.

Interviews are held every other Thursday evening for two hours, beginning at 9 CANADA/ Atlantic Time, 8 Eastern Time, 7 Central Time, 6 Mountain Time, and 5 Pacific Time.
 

Mel: Here, ten days into our WELCOME SPRING, I am so PLEASED at last to welcome Jan Fields into our ICL Chat Room tonight! What didn't exist when I began writing, the Internet, is absolutely indispensable for writers, both as a research tool, and as the best and swiftest way to get into contract with other writers, thereby making the lonely profession of writer FAR less lonely. That is something that could not be done 35 years ago. Jan Fields began garnering experience on the Internet at much the same time she started her children's writing career. Tonight you'll find Jan a treasure trove of information about using the Internet as a writer. I'm looking forward to learning MUCH from her this evening. Jan, WELCOME to the ICL Chat Room, where we do the very things you are so expert at explaining!

Jan: Hi, it's nice to be here. I love chat.

Mel: And WE'll love YOU! Jan, you are so talented in so many areas, writing, teaching, Internetting, and more. Did you have interests and activities as you were growing up that led to your children's writing? Your Internetting?

Jan: Well, when I was in Junior High, I wrote a series of soap opera stories involving all the kids I knew in absurd roles. They were very popular and gave me a popularity boost. My future was probably set right then. My love for computers came later.

Mel: Was your mother or father a writer or Internetter?

Jan: Nope, though Dad gets brave and sends e-mail now.

Mel: What was the most influential-upon-your-life thing that your mother taught you? Your father?

Jan: Mom always believed I would be a good storyteller, since I told stories to my little sister. So she thought I should grow up to be a writer. Or a lawyer. But I couldn't afford law school...and I like writing better.

Mel: Would you have gone to law school if you'd been able to afford it?

Jan: Oh yes, I planned to be a media lawyer, but the best laid plans of mice and men... So I became a newspaper journalist, then a magazine writer, and now I write for kids...took a long time to work up to the hard stuff!

Mel: What did you magazine write and newspaper write before you wrote for children?

Jan: I have a degree in journalism, and went on to do mostly community stuff and a little court reporting. I didn't really like newspaper work.

Mel: What were your favorite children's books as you were growing up?

Jan: I loved fantasy and stuff like King Arthur and Ivanhoe. Oh, and A Wrinkle in Time. Some of C.S. Lewis' stuff. I read ANYTHING!

Mel: Tell us about your writing for children. What have you written and published of fiction? Nonfiction?

Jan: I wrote a series of storybooks that sold with a line of collectible dolls. I've done short stories for Ladybug and Pockets and others. I've done nonfiction about writing for bunches of folks, and some parenting stuff and artsy/craftsy stuff. Whenever I get a wild hair, I chase it until I find a place to sell it.

Mel: WOW, a Jane of all trades, and a master of all!

Jan: Or really, really flighty!

Mel: Tell us how the Internet you first entered and worked on DIFFERED from today's Internet—though it wasn't that many years ago for you, I know.

Jan: Well, my first computer was DOS-based and I wrote programs in BASIC, so I've been around. But my Internet stuff really started when people were still amazed by all the pretty colors!

Mel: Did your children's writing develop FIRST, or was it your Internet interest? And how did those two aspects "fertilize" each other, influence each other?

Jan: I think they influenced each other. I was still writing both adult and kids’ stuff and still do, some, but I'm much more into kid stuff now. I found so many contacts online—other writers. It was like the newsroom but without all the politics—friends and coworkers—all helping each other.

Mel: Would you explain and distinguish, generally, Jan, what is meant by the three areas of our chat tonight: Chat Rooms, Discussion Boards and Mailing Lists, for those of us who may not be familiar with those enjoyments?

Jan: Chat rooms are live, you write, and the other person sees what you wrote right away. They are wonderful. But you're limited by time—getting folks together—and how fast and coherently you type, and how easily the software is overwhelmed. This seems really stable but I can flood a lot of software. It can't keep up with my typing. Discussion boards are online all the time. Folks passing by can read a whole discussion thread and add to it. You get lots of different voices and you aren't bound by time. But you don't always know who might show up or what they might say—trolls can be a problem on discussion boards. Mailing lists usually come right to your e-mail box. They don't have as much of a trolling problem. But folks can get edgy about having their e-mail address out there.

Mel: What is the "trolling problem" you mentioned?

Jan: On discussion boards, sometimes people will visit who don't care about the topic. They just like to post things to get a rise out of people, to get conflict and drama going. And people don't always realize they are being manipulated, so feelings can get hurt. At the very least, a worthwhile discussion can get derailed. I don't see much of this on Kid Lit discussion boards. It's quite common on adult writing discussion boards.

Mel: So "trolling" is like in fishing—for trouble, maybe. Might I find on a discussion board a "thread" of the kind you're talking about that has to do with, say, writing fantasy for children, and follow that particular thread or topic?

Jan: Right, and you'll end up with lots of different viewpoints on the subject. It can really help clarify ideas for you or give you new perspective; and unlike a book, you can discuss, ask questions, give input; but like a book, it's print and stable and you can come back and think about it some more.

Mel: Would I be able to RESPOND to any particular person who posted a particular thought—just to THAT person?

Jan: Some boards allow that—the board at verlakay.com will let you send a private message to just one person. But most boards don't—it's public or not at all, unless the person felt comfortable enough to give an e-mail address. That can make some folks hesitant to give details about negative experience, especially with an agent or an editor or magazines.

Mel: Which is better, a writer's mailing list or a writer's discussion board, and why?

Jan: They both have good points. A discussion board gives you a lot more time to stay with a topic. While a mailing list will sometimes have topics mutate into other things very fast. A mailing list, though, gives you more privacy—or at least that illusion—and folks will often be very open.

Jan: I have never read A Circle of Quiet—but I'll look for it. I've read most of the books with the family from Wrinkle

Jan: Oh, cool—I will definitely have to read that.

Jan: For example, if the discussion were on agents, a troll might say that anyone who uses an agent is stupid, since agents take your money. Or the troll may say he/she has an agent, and if you don't, you're a loser. I've seen both of those. Some folks will label anything confrontational as trolling, but a real troll really doesn't care about the topic, just the response and drama. To do much Internet discussion, it helps if you have a tough skin and don't take things too personally.

Mel: And we writers DO need toughskins!

Jan: I love the one I am in. But it took a while to find one I liked. You really need a group that works for you—for your style, your work pace, and your needs. I like folks to tell me what I'm doing wrong, even if I don't like hearing it. Some folks only like to say and hear happy things, and some of those groups are really into support more than criticism. And that can work for the members—but I LIKE criticism, better now than coming along with a rejection letter.

Mel: Two similar questions:

Jan: I've sent submissions through e-mail. I always ask for the editor to let me know when she gets it. Because you really don't know for sure—things get lost in cyberspace just like in the post office. I never worry about someone stealing my work—most folks like their own work better. But I want it to get where it's going. I have only very, very rarely had anyone ask me for a disk.

Jan: I have a Yahoo e-mail account specifically for use on discussion boards. I don't worry so much about folks on the boards, but I get enough spam sent to my main mail. I honestly haven't had more than four or five really flaming hate mails in the ten years that I've been online. I have had folks really HATE things I said online and send me mail about it. But they don't threaten to boil my bunnies or anything.

Jan: Well, Verla Kay has a chat room and she talks in person to folks most nights and you're talking "in person" to writers here.

Mel: Do you mean "talking" in the sense that your hearers are right here, instead of "remotely" replying via discussion boards, Jan?

Jan: Well, in chat the person isn't in your home, but she's typing while you're typing so that's sort of live.

Mel: EXCELLENT explanation!

Jan: Oh, no, gladys. I have chatted that way with my brother long ago when he was stationed in Japan but the lag time between messages made me crazy. I couldn't imagine doing it as a chat.

Jan: Well, in my critique group, we e-mail it to each other. I know there are groups that use discussion boards and post it. I don't like that as well, because I'm a little touchy about how much I want my name associated with my rough drafts all over the Internet. I want folks to think I'm a great writer. ;-)

Mel: Is there any problem in the e-mailing removing all the formatting of a manuscript?

Jan: When I send a manuscript through e-mail, I always cut it from my Word file and paste it into a text editor like Notepad (if you're on windows). I save it as a text file and read it through to make sure it's clear about paragraphs and such. Then I cut and paste it into e-mail. That way there are NO weird formatting things that the editor has to decipher.

Mel: GOOD tip!

Mel: So I might be a part of a discussion board where I put in my two cents; and the "mailing list" is when they send me via e-mail what people are saying on that board? And I don't HAVE to subscribe to the mailing list to still participate in the discussion board?

Jan: You can be part of a discussion board, but NOT choose the mailing list option, right.

Jan: When I've been in groups, I find around 5 to 8 is a good number. More than that results in too many submissions, and sometimes the weaker members don't get a lot of criticisms. A lot fewer than that 5 to 8, and life can get in the way of sending in ANYTHING.

Jan: No, actually, I NEVER worry about anyone stealing my work. Unpublished work simply isn't worth that much. And most folks who want to be published, want to be published with their own work. Now I have had folks reprint my stuff without asking. And I have seen my stuff get sent to lists and such—since I write about writing. And the Chicken Soup folks HATE seeing so much of their stuff get typed into e-mails and sent to everyone and their brother. But that all happens after you've sold it. Basically, if you haven’t sold the thing to someone, most folks aren't as impressed with it as you are. After all, I want MY BOOK published because I think I'm a spiffy writer—and I think most folks feel the same.

Mel: Maybe our things getting distributed freely after publication can be considered a kind of service to the writing community?

Jan: Well, I know it makes some people crazy to see that happen to their work, and it does kill your reprint chances. But it doesn't bother me. I like that folks liked what I said so much.

Mel: A two-parter from ondevine:

Jan: I have contacted experts that I have found online through universities and such. I don't actually use information that I find online unless I can back it up somewhere else. Magazines don't like it and that's who buy my nonfiction. I did a piece for Cricket on caterpillars and used a source who was studying that particular type of caterpillar. And they still wanted it backed up with printed book sources.

Jan: caq, it depends upon the list. With yahoogroups, once you post, everyone who is on the mailing list getting e-mails will see your return address. But folks visiting via the Web site will not see it. And if you are just a lurker, no one will see it. Except the moderator—we see everything.

Mel: What's a "lurker," Jan?

Jan: A lurker, either on a mailing list or a discussion board, is someone who comes to read but not post. It's actually a good thing to lurk, at first, so you can see if the list is right for you before jumping in. And some folks are shy and really just want to read and not post—that's perfectly okay, too

Jan: On the childrens-writers list at yahoogroups we have over 1600 members. Thankfully, MOST of them lurk, or we'd never get through the e-mails!

Mel: How do you FIND a critique group online?

Jan: One of the best ways is simply to join a good mailing list and/or discussion board—and ask about a group. It helps to tell EXACTLY the sort of thing you write. You don't get good responses with "I've written a children's story and need a critique group," since there are a lot of different sorts of children’s stories.

Mel: So if I tell them I've written a fantasy about a mouse and a fly, that should get more response when I seek out a critique group?

Jan: Right—but even more, say, "I've written a fantasy novel, or a picture book, or magazine story, or chapter book about a mouse and a fly, since some groups are specific about the formats they focus on. If you're the only novelist in a picture book group, you probably won't be happy.

Mel: If it doesn't seem safe to share work on the Internet, should you copyright it first?

Jan: I know some folks (mostly lawyers) who copyright everything before sending it out. By copyright, I mean register the copyright, since your work is copyrighted in the US (and most countries that adhere to the Bern Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works) automatically when you write it. But, if you copyright your work before mailing it, you will get DROWNED in mail from vanity presses and scam agents. They use the copyright registration to find folks they consider an easy mark. That alone says something about how copyrighting your stuff is seen in the business. However, AFTER your work has been published in a magazine, if you are worried about copyright infringement, it's a good idea to copyright your magazine stuff in batches because the magazine copyright will not be considered an individual copyright registration for your individual story or article.

Mel: Do you think this might be true, Jan: When we begin writing and our work is rather terrible, we're very defensive and feel the need to PROTECT it. But as we develop as writers, writing "better stuff," that need-to-protect seems to evaporate?

Jan: Pretty much. But I think it's more a matter of horror stories. When you're starting out, you hear horror stories about how folks are looking to steal your work, and it scares you. But when you've been around for a while, you find out it's HARD to find someone who wants your work. I invest a lot of time finding exactly the editor who wants my work, so I'm not seeing it as this amazing, stealable commodity anymore. So fears of "stealing" do happen more in the beginner, but it's not a function of the quality of the work so much as an understanding of the process of selling it.

Mel: EXCELLENT advice, Jan! Should you stick strictly with discussion boards for CHILDREN'S writers if you are a children’s writer?

Jan: I actually frequent both adult and children’s boards, though I only SUBSCRIBE to kidlit mailing lists. (I can only handle so much e-mail.) I find it interesting to hear about the world of grownie-up writing—it's quite different. And I find adult writers are much savvier about scammers, so I find out what to avoid better. Most of the really bad scams I learned of on writers’ boards for adults. But, they don't really help my craft like writing boards for kid's writers—it's very different writing. And if you post material to a board frequented by adult writers, you tend to get really rotten advice. One thing I would really recommend to anyone posting on discussion boards and/or mailing lists is to be gracious, helpful, and have a sense of humor.

Mel: What kinds of things are discussion boards and mailing lists good for, Jan?

Jan: I have had editors and agents recognize me at conferences because of my participation on boards or lists. And they mention that they are impressed with how cool-headed I stay. Think about personality traits that would make an editor or agent WANT to work with you. And try not to display things they wouldn't like working with so well. But you don't have to be grim or schoolmarmish—editors don't hate silly people. They mostly just don't want to deal with folks who are overly emotional or rigid. Remember that you'll never know EVERYONE who sees your posts. I've gotten work specifically because editors and agents thought I would be easy/nice to work with.

Mel: What kinds of things should you watch out for on discussion boards and mailing lists?

Jan: Don't let them eat up ALL your time. It's easy to be a board/list junkie—they are very supportive and interesting.

Mel: How do you avoid some of the pitfalls of writing discussion boards and mailing lists?

Jan: Take everything with a grain of salt and trust your own instincts—that helps. And remember, the other folks are all struggling with their own personal issues and inner demons. Try not to take things too personally. Personally, I sometimes scold my monitor, instead of scolding other people who post things on discussion boards.

Mel: How do you find the good boards?

Mel: Once you've joined—what next? What are some good ways to get involved?

Jan: Well, I always read first—so I get a feeling for the personalities and topics. I never just jump in because every board has its own personality. But I'll nearly always find a topic that interests me.

Mel: What are some things that are pretty much taboo on any discussion board/mailing list?

Jan: Getting personal during an intense discussion is ALWAYS a no-no. If the topic if too close, you might want to skip it. Some boards are sensitive about bad language—actually most boards. Mailing lists can be a little less sensitive but you need to read and see how folks handle that. Religion and politics are usually not the best children's writing topics, since so few folks can handle those without throwing dirt.

Mel: Jan, you've alluded to a discussion board you MODERATE, childrens-writers at Yahoo. Can you tell us more specifically about some of the issues discussed and things that go on at that board—like religion and politics, please?

Jan: I try to moderate the CW list pretty lightly because a lot of good ideas grow from odd topics. But it's a big list, so I have to watch for things getting out of hand. And some topics are very important to children's writers like book banning, even though discussions can get heated. During a hot topic, though, we can get 100 posts a day, easily. We also have book editors, magazine editors, and agents as members. So it pays to watch how you present yourself.

Mel: What might be "an odd topic"out of which rich discussion grows on a discussion board?

Jan: Well, we talked about Columbus once and it got really hot. Some people HATE Columbus.

Mel: Really?

Jan: But even though it was a touchy topic, I learned piles of stuff and different viewpoints I was totally unaware of. We've also talked about weird regional foods, and little tidbits like that can make a difference in creating a character.

Mel: How can I become a "member" of the childrens-writers discussion board-how do I actually join it?

Mel: I HIGHLY recommend joining the childrens-writers discussion board as a LURKER first, because you can learn MUCH about how discussion boards operate--and how WELL moderated they can be! It's the BEST board for children's writers, in my opinion.

Jan: Awww, thanks, Mel. I love the list.

Mel: How do I find discussion boards/mailing lists that have a lot of published authors on them, Jan?

Jan: Well, with 1600 members, CW has A LOT of published authors—HUNDREDS. Also, most discussion boards will draw a published writer or two or twelve. Many published writers feel it's important to "give back" for all the help they got starting out. The boards that look like ghost towns tend to have the fewest published writers, while the active boards tend to have the most. And you'll see published authors in the chat room at VerlaKay.com almost every night.

Mel: How do I avoid getting scammed by folks who use discussion boards and mailing lists to trap new writers?

Mel: Well exactly how DO the scammers TRAP new writers? Are you talking about getting actual e-mails from those agents/publishers/publicity people?

Jan: Lots of really bad, really expensive vanity presses and fake agents visit discussion boards and look for writers who seem really new to the business. Or they go through the copyright records for those folks who registered the copyright on unpublished work. Or they put up spiffy Web sites (or sometimes crappy Web sites) and then post on discussion boards, pretending to be a happy writer who has used their service. They tell you that they are very impressed with your work. But they never ever use specifics about the work itself—it's all generic puff.

Mel: Two similar questions:

Jan: Well, my writing time is limited so I have to schedule writing and goofing-off time. And basically, Internet surfing is goofing-off time. Writing comes first. But when I'm blocked or just not wanting to write, I can justify a little surfing as research or networking or whatever. If you feel like you're really getting unbalanced in your surfing/writing balance, you might consider a break from the boards/lists. I've had to do that before...some of the boards are just like soap operas, especially the watchdog boards.

Jan: Oh, a bunch of countries, including the US (eventually) signed an agreement in 1971 to honor one another's copyright laws, and set those laws in common form. It is the Bern Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. The US was very late to join in the signing—we actually didn't protect writers nearly as well as most European countries. The group law is called the "Bern (Berne, if you’re French) Convention" and it basically says that all creative work is protected from the moment it is produced in fixed media, or something to that effect. The US still lags behind some of the other countries in protection, but we do agree that the creator owns the creation right from the start.

Mel: THANK YOU for that HELPFUL explanation, Jan!

Jan: The Web generally SHOULD follow the same copyright rules as everywhere else: If you didn't write it, don't disseminate it. But, of course, we know the Web doesn’t, and it's so dang hard to prosecute copyright violations on the Web. And these occur FAR, FAR more often in graphics/art than in written matter. It's hard to know who to send the lawyer after in written matter. Nonfiction is infringed upon far, far more often than fiction.

Jan: Hmmm...no, I don't think so. I've seen writers who were, ethically, all over the place. I've seen writers argue that it's okay to lie to agents, for example, since agents are in the power position. While others are totally uncomfortable with lying. So, if it's unspoken, a lot of folks I've run across haven't caught on.

Mel: Jan, tell us more about a board I believe YOU started, one for children's MAGAZINE writers in particular. What is its URL again, and what kind of discussions—such as about particular magazines—might I find there?

Jan: eggamy, I like the Cricket group—they are a great match for my voice, and they are eclectic. I also write a lot about writing and I've sold that to five or six different markets

Mel: Two similars:

Jan: Actually, I am not sure why they frequent the boards. I think it's to keep up with how writers think and how writers see trends, and so they can "get to know" folks whose work may cross their desks. Many of them join so they can get ideas for conference topics. That's a REALLY popular reason.

Mel: You mean when they are asked to speak at conferences, the boards help them choose topics that writers are interested in?

Jan: Right, boards and lists are a great source of information when you're planning to speak to writers. They watch what writers need and want to know and then produce workshops for it. They reply off-list to folks mostly when they know something helpful. I have gotten off-list e-mails from a number of editors and a couple of agents when I've asked questions. Because all of our questions and hopes and fears are right out there

Jan: Most online publishers like things sent pasted into an e-mail. Many of them are open to submissions with the manuscripts right in the e-mail. I know Wee Ones is okay with that as well as GP4Kids and Story Station. Often they have guidelines online. Sometimes even print publishers like e-mail contact. I know Sweet 16 likes e-mail queries. I usually open my submission e-mails with my cover letter, then I mention that my manuscript is pasted into the e-mail. I sign my name like a normal e-mail but then make a line ---- and paste in the manuscript

Mel: Jan, a number of chatsters tonight are asking if there is an ICL board for sharing your work, and there is. I just wanted to squeeze in a word to them here that I'll talk about it in tomorrow's Writer's News!

Jan: Well, the courts have decided that a magazine's copyright only protects the magazine in TOTAL. So if your work is infringed upon, the fact that the magazine was registered won't count as YOUR registration. And if you take it to court, you'll need to register before you enter the courtroom. Some grownie-up magazine writers actually group 5 or 6 or 10 pieces together and send them to be registered in a group. But again, most of the time the infringement is on nonfiction. And most of the time it's for magazines targeted to adults. Fiction simply doesn't get infringed very often.

Mel: Tell us about your Kid Magazine Writers eMagazine, and what it does for writers, please.

Jan: Well, we have a market guide that gives links to magazines online and their guidelines, if they are given online. We try to interview at least one magazine editor every month, which lets us share what the magazine wants RIGHT THEN. We also have technique articles to help you improve your work. And we always run a good news piece about someone's first publication experience—and I am always looking for those! Folks love good news.

Mel: How can we subscribe to the eMagazine?

Mel: THANKS, I will need that! J

Jan: Nope, there is never a time I can't write. Journalism school and newspapers cured that! But I have had plots sort of fade on me, and I don't know where to go next, so I will put a manuscript aside and work on something else. And I am much more clever some days than others.

Jan: Personally, my very first piece was paid for and I've written for pay every since. I don't think you need to write for free. I think if you're ready to submit, you're ready to get paid.

Mel: Awomen (Amen)!

Jan: But I have written for free when I think the market is doing something important, filling a need that is being overlooked or something similar. But I don't think you NEED to write for free. I think what most folks need to do is simply become more market-savvy.

Mel: Have you ever gotten paying work from being on a discussion board or mailing list, Jan?

Jan: Yes, I've been approached by people who asked me to write for them—the doll storybooks, for example. The vice- president of the company saw posts of mine on a discussion board and liked my writing and personality and thought I would be good to work with. I ended up writing both the books and the package "lift"—the copy on the doll's box. It was a serious boost in my income.

Mel: Jan Fields, YOU have made the often-confusing Internet a tasty piece of cake! Thank you for giving us so many suggestions and tips for using the Internet, with its chat rooms, discussion groups and mailing lists, that will make more productive writers of all of us. You have inspired us toward mastering the Internet, rather than letting it defeat us. Now that we've had you here to guest this time, I am hoping that you will be willing to come again in future. For I know we will turn up many more questions about using the Internet. Will you return and be with us again someday, please?

Jan: Sure, I had a huge amount of fun. I would be happy to come back anytime you like.

Mel: On the second Thursday of April, April 14, we will have as our special guest the person who built this very Web site that we are using, Kristi Holl. Kristi has worked on BOTH sides of the author/editor desk for several years now. A writer first, she has 29 books and 150+ articles and stories to her credit. She has also worked as an editor in several capacities. For Five Star Mysteries, she read submissions and passed along promising novels to the acquisitions editor. From 1998 to 2002, Kristi served as ICL's and Long Ridge Writer's Group's first Web editor. She found and edited all the articles on the Web sites. Now Kristi works as an editor for Zonderkidz, the children's division of Zondervan. This past year, she edited fourteen novels in several series. Working as an editor has given her a whole new appreciation for authors who are prompt with deadlines, easy to get along with, and willing to revise. Come to the chat April 14 for some critical DOs and DON'Ts for working with today's editors. If you're not yet published, learn what not to do—plus how to make yourself indispensable to an editor!

Mel: Jan Fields, writer, Instructor, Internet expert, and friend, we SO appreciate your coming here this evening, and bringing your rich experience and expertise to share with us. There are SO many specific points we will remember from all you've taught us here, which are going to make a difference in our research, our writing, and in sharing from and with other children's writers on the Internet. THANK YOU for coming, and we wish you HAPPILY in ALL the things you do so well!

Jan: Thank you.

Mel: You are WARMLY WELCOME, and goodnight everywriter!