"Picture Book Tips from a (Former) Rejection Queen (or How to Get an Editor's Attention Without Resorting to Kidnapping)" with Jill Esbaum

Mel: is Mel Boring, moderator of this chat with Jill Esbaum, and editor of the ICL Web Site.

Interviews are held every other Thursday evening for two hours, beginning at 9 CANADA/ Atlantic Time, 8 Eastern Time, 7 Central Time, 6 Mountain Time, and 5 Pacific Time.

Mel: It is especially rewarding to me to introduce Jill Esbaum to you, because she has been a friend for some years, and I have joyfully with pride watched her rapid development as a children's writer. Jill is well able to write both fiction and nonfiction, picture books to novels; but she is particularly talented at writing picture books and has been highly successful at that difficult niche of publishing for children—and very early on in her career. As we chat this evening, and as you ask your own questions of this bright new talented author of children's picture books, you will find her answers well thought out, sympathetic, and helpful. Jill, welcome back to the ICL Chat Room!

Jill: Thanks, Mel, I'm happy to be back!

Mel: Jill, so many children's writers had writing roots in their family of origin. Is that true for you, and if so, how?

Jill: It was...but I forgot about it for years! Last summer, my mother found a box of my elementary school memorabilia. There was a story I'd written in the first grade. That brought back LOTS of memories of my early storytelling.

Mel: Did you aspire to be a writer even when you were a child, then?

Jill: I doubt I thought it through. I didn't realize people could grow up to be writers, I suppose I must have thought books wrote themselves! :)

Mel: Very common for children to think that way, I think. When DID you start to think seriously about writing then, Jill?

Jill: Like so many others, I started thinking about it when my own children were small. We read many, MANY picture books. I wondered for years if I could write books myself, but it wasn't until I read Kevin Henkes' Julius, Baby of the World, a book that still makes me laugh out loud, that I KNEW I had to give it a try.

Mel: Tell us about those children of yours, Jill, and your husband. Don't you farm?

Jill: Yes, we do. Those three children are now 21, 18, and 16! They still enjoy funny picture books.

Mel: Don't ALL we children still enjoy those books! J Jill, you call yourself "a former rejection queen," but was there really all that much rejection before you began to publish successfully?

Jill: Oh, I EARNED that title, Mel! LOL. I racked up rejections right and left early on. Mostly because I sent things out before they were ready. I thought those stories were so clever...now they make me cringe!

Mel: About how many rejections do you have, and which was the most difficult rejection ever for you to receive?

Jill: I stopped counting when my file folder (marked with a skull and crossbones) got so full that not another form rejection would fit inside. My most difficult rejection (so far!) wasn't for a picture book. It was for a middle-grade novel that I had revised twice, and the publisher had taken 8 additional months to make its decision. THAT was tough.

Mel: A chatster wants to know if you sold your first picture book the first time out, or if there were even more rejections with them.

Jill: The first dozen or so picture book stories I wrote were rejected OFTEN. Once I learned how to write them better, I started getting personal rejections. The first book I sold, however, was accepted by the first publisher who saw it.

Mel: Were there any encouraging notes jotted on any of your early rejection slips?

Jill: Yes, thank goodness. What fueled my determination, early on, was a personal note from an editor at Houghton Mifflin. She said she liked my manuscript, but they had recently published too many weather-related books, and she didn't feel she could do another so soon. That was 8 months after I started writing.

Mel: Jill, tell us more about that first book you sold, and why you think it was accepted by the first publisher who saw it.

Jill: Well, part of it was dumb luck. But it didn't hurt that I had met this particular editor at an SCBWI retreat and I knew he was looking for humorous, multi-layered picture books for older readers. That happened to be my latest project, so I sent it to him when it was finished.

Mel: What is the most important element in a picture book?

Jill: For me, it's character—a character kids can identify with from the very first page.

Mel: And how about plot?

Jill: Plot and character go hand in hand. A character should have a problem of some kind, something that threatens one of his basic (universal) needs. How he chooses to deal with that problem—and ultimately resolve it—is the backbone of the plot. Without a problem, there can be no resolution. Without resolution, no character growth. No character growth, no story!

Mel: So how do you create both a character and a plot that editors will find appealing?

Jill: First of all, know your character's quirks, fears, passions, pet peeves, and how she'll react in any given situation. Then make her uncomfortable. The story's problem should be directly influenced by the character's personality. If she's terrified of crowds, for instance, have her get lost at the mall during the Christmas rush. Don't waste time setting up the backstory. Just drop us in on the action. This takes time and practice, but with every completed manuscript, you gain knowledge. Basic questions we need to ask ourselves when writing a picture book: Who is this story about? What's her problem? Why is it a problem for her? What's at stake for her if the problem isn't solved?

Mel: Could you explain that "What's at stake"?

Jill: What are the consequences for that character if she does not solve her problem? For instance, in my first picture book, Stink Soup, my main character, Annabelle, loathes tomatoes. Even the smell makes her gag. So I sent her to her grandmother's for a week to help granny make tomato juice. Granny, very proud of her delicious juice, keeps trying to get Annabelle to taste it, and Annabelle's torn: Does she gag down the horrible juice, or does she hurt her beloved Granny's feelings?

grandy1983: Good evening, Jill! I have never attempted to write a picture book, but I would like to. I know the words have to "paint" the illustrations, so does that mean each and every word must be perfect? What else is involved in writing a picture book? Is there a certain rhythm I must follow in order to write a successful picture book? I know they definitely aren't easy to write, but I really want to write one. Thank you!

Jill: It helps to visualize a picture book story as a series of pictures, keeping in mind that each picture/scene has to move the story forward, capture a mood, convey an emotion—

Mel: HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS on that picture book you just sold TODAY, Jill!!! What do you feel is the MAIN reason it sold so soon, since I think you only started it three months ago?

Jill: It's crazy, but this was the fastest book I ever wrote (2 days). I think it sold because it's funny, and editors are always looking for humor! Also, it's written in rhyme, and I worked hard (I know, how hard could I have worked in only 2 days?) to make sure the beats fell perfectly and the rhyme was flawless.

guessit: In a picture book, what must play the primary role, the words or the pictures? Or does it depend?

Jill: Editors (and readers) should be able to envision a story as they read your text WITHOUT being whacked over the head. If they can't "see" it, our word choice needs to be strengthened. Always remember, if your text is accepted, an illustrator comes into the picture. From that point on, your book becomes half his. So give him some leeway. Don't assign colors to hair, eyes, clothing, etc., unless there's a reason, plot-wise.

rafsangel7: Is it OK to submit a manuscript with rough pictures to convey your ideas?

Jill: Not unless you're a professional illustrator. If illustration clues are absolutely necessary, as in a book like Officer Buckle and Gloria by Peggy Rathmann, put those clues in brackets. But use them sparingly! I've heard of one illustrator who, upon receiving a manuscript for consideration, immediately blackens out any illustration clues from the author!

Mel: Jill, I forgot to ask: Does the picture book you just sold today have a title yet?

Jill: Yes, Mel, thanks for asking. It's Estelle Takes A Bath.

Mel: Do you know who the illustrator will be yet? Or is that decided much later?

Jill: The editor already has someone in mind, but she hasn't yet discussed the project with her, so I can't say.

del: Hi Jill! It's me, Della. Congratulations on today's picture book news. I'm thrilled for you! How long did the publisher consider it? Will you or did you work on revisions? Can't wait to hear whatever you can share!

Jill: Hi, Della! Great to "see" you here! I sent this to two publishers on November 14^th, so that's a bit over 2 and a half months. The editor didn't talk about revisions yet, but with the book written in rhyme, I can't imagine that we'd do TOO much revision. I do have two lines I'd like to add that I thought of after I sent it. See? I sent this one out TOO SOON! LOL.

Mel: What might an editor say when you say you want to add lines?!

Jill: I don't know, I haven't told her yet! :)

kay kay: Often I hear writers say that they revise many, MANY, times. Do you revise this much, and if so, what does this include? Major revisions many times, or just the overall revision process?

Jill: I revised Stink Soup many, MANY times, kay kay. It was way too long, and still weighs in at 1700 words. My second book didn't have much revision. Nor my third. But they were fermenting in the back of my mind for a LONG time. I'd say anything I write that is NOT in rhyme would, in general, take much more revision.

Mel: Is 1700 words out-of-the-question too long? What IS the word-length range of picture books? Do some publishers allow longer wordage?

Jill: It all depends on the readers who the book is targeting. Up to 2000 words is not that unusual. There are editors, though, who absolutely do NOT want to see anything over 1000 words.

Mel: Does a picture book HAVE to have conflict, Jill?

Jill: Concept, novelty, nonfiction, or mood picture books cannot be easily molded to fit a certain set of rules. For tonight, though, with our limited time, I hope you won't mind, Mel, sticking with character-driven picture books, which DO need conflict.

Mel: Don't mind at all! That's a very reasonable stick-with!

Jill: The conflict in a character-driven book should escalate. Back your character into a corner. If you can't come up with a solution, don't panic. Let your subconcious mind have a crack at it. Sometimes it helps to sit down and brainstorm, but more often, a solution will come when you least expect it. You're more clever than you think, so don't be in a hurry to get a story wrapped up and sent off. TAKE YOUR TIME. That was one of the hardest lessons for ME to learn.

mojo: Jill, by "picture books" do you mean books that you yourself have sent in the pictures for, along with your stories? Or does the publisher assign an artist?

Jill: No, if I tried to do the pictures, my manuscripts would be laughed out of New York (or wherever). I just try to write the liveliest text possible, using lots of sensory details and plenty of conflict, then kiss that envelope goodbye and hope for the best. :)

Mel: You are WELL published, Jill! And by the way, Jill Esbaum's web site is one of the BEST I've ever seen!

suzandtim: Why weren't your first stories—as you mentioned—ready to send out?

Jill: Mostly because I didn't know what constituted a "good" story, suzandtim. I wasted almost a year writing cutesie slice-of-life "stories" that had no conflict, nothing INTERESTING happening! Blech. Plus, I was always in too big of a hurry. When I slowed down and really tried to LEARN the craft, I started having more luck.

guessit: Do you think that publishing is necessarily a reflection of good writing? If a writer dies without ever succeeding in publishing, does that mean the person is not a good writer...or a writer at all?

Jill: Not at all! Although I, personally, need some kind of affirmation. I don't know if I would have kept trying without it. That's why, at the urging of one of my published friends, I started submitting work to magazines. I learned a lot by studying the style of whichever one I was targeting, which, in the end, upped my chances of getting published. If someone loves the creative process and doesn't need that outside affirmation, they are just as much a writer as anyone else.

Mel: guessit told me that was maybe the kind of question they might've gotten kicked out of class at one time for asking. But I KNEW you'd not only allow, but be eager to answer the question, Jill, thanks!

guessit: Do you think it is necessary for a person to love children in order to write for them, or is frequent exposure to kids enough?

Jill: Hard for me to say, because I love kids AND being around them! I don't think, however, that you need to HAVE kids. But you do have to be able to remember what it was like to have been one.

kay kay: Have you ever sold a nonfiction picture book?

Jill: No, I haven't. Truthfully, the line between fiction and nonfiction, for me, is awfully blurry when it comes to picture books. I do have a picture book based on a historical event that I'm attempting to sell right now. I've decided to let the publisher decide what to call it—fiction or nonfiction—if it ever sells!

Mel: For picture books, is it better to use first person or third person point of view?

Jill: Whichever fits that particular story, Mel. This isn't always easy to determine (darn it). I often write a story both ways to see which one "sounds" right. I also try both past tense and present tense, a traditional story-telling style or something more immediate. Whichever you choose, each story should have a voice so distinctive and fitting that you cannot imagine it being told any other way. Voice is SO important! When you're submitting stories for the crowded picture book market, your voice HAS to stand out from the crowd to be noticed. Who likes a story that feels generic, as though anybody could have written it? Make that editor sit up and take notice (and want to show his friends your text!).

Mel: You promised to talk about setting, too. How important is setting in picture books as compared with other genres of books?

Jill: Crucial, since you are trying to put your setting inside the head of someone you've probably never met. An editor MUST be able to feel that he's right there inside your story, experiencing things right along with your character. If not, they won't be drawn in.

guessit: Is it completely unrealistic to expect to be published without being rejected? What are the statistics?

Jill: I wish I knew the statistics! I can tell you, though, that although I was rejected dozens of times, the three picture books I HAVE sold all sold to the first editor who saw them. So I know it can be done. Like I said before, I HAD met the editor who bought my first two books, and I DID pay attention to what he said during his retreat presentation. So it isn't as if I was submitting to him out of the blue. AND that same editor HAS rejected 4 or 5 of my manuscripts!

Mel: The only other children's writer I've ever heard say she never received a rejection is Eve Bunting. Eve is Irish, so some may say that hers was Irish luck! J But Eve is also an incredibly talented children’s author.

frogpond: If you know a book is good, your writer group has given the thumbs up, and still it gets several rejections—when do you know to quit?

Jill: If YOU know it's good, and your critique group can't find anything else wrong with it, I wouldn't quit too quickly. But maybe I'd put it away for a few months and read as many books on writing for children as I could get my hands on. Maybe by the time you get it out again, something will strike you that you didn't see before. Often, I think, when we move on to other projects for awhile, then get an old one back out, we see patterns emerge that we may not have noticed before. Or a stronger story arc, or some ways to form stronger connections throughout.

Mel: Marilyn J presubmitted this question: You've written so many articles—when did you know you were ready for picture books? How did you know?

Jill: I was submitting picture books the entire time I was also writing for magazines, Marilyn, and receiving rejections rejections rejections. One thing that REALLY helped me was figuring out that there HAD to be a cause/effect relationship in every story. Once I figured that out, my story-telling skills improved greatly. Then, at another point, just when I thought I knew what I was doing (finally) an editor wrote me a personal rejection, telling me that my story was "too didactic for our list." Didactic? I had to look it up: 1. used or intended for teaching or instruction; 2. morally instructive; 3. too much inclined to teach others, boringly pedantic or moralistic. ACK! Embarrassing, but I wanted to thank that editor (okay, eventually), because once I understood didactism, I could avoid it from that day on! I have a list of writing tips on my website, actually, all things that would have shortened my learning curve, had I understood them from the beginning. But most of what I've learned since I started writing, I learned from doing it WRONG the first time.

Jill: YES! My kids LOVED those books!

kay kay: When you received your first acceptance for your first book, what was your reaction?

Jill: Never in my life have I hyper-ventilated until that phone call! I honestly had to fall back into a chair, I was so shocked. My editor laughed while I tried to get my tongue to work.

isabella: What is a multi-layered picture book, which you mentioned earlier?

Jill: Basically, a multi-layered story has more than one problem for the character to work through, both externally and internally. Using Stink Soup as an example, remember what Annabelle's problem was? That she hated tomatoes? Well, her little brother, Willie, also gets to stay at Granny's for the week. Before their mother leaves, Annabelle promises Mom that she'll keep Willie out of trouble. Willie, of course, is a little stinker (both figuratively and literally, after he tangles with a skunk). How Annabelle's various problems interconnect and how she deals with them to a satisfying conclusion took months to work out, but taking the time was worth it in the end.

kay kay: Jill, I have never heard plot described so simply! No wonder you're a picture book author.

Jill: Thanks, kay kay.

dreamwanderer: Jill, thank you for coming tonight! Being a former "Rejection Queen," What would be a reasonable amount of time to expect an offer from a publisher, after having initially sent in one's manuscript and received the first hint of interest from the publisher?

Jill: It was eight months before I heard back regarding Stink Soup. Six weeks for Ste-e-e-e-eamboat A-Comin’, and just over two and a half months for this latest one, Estelle Takes A Bath. But I've heard of cases that took a year or more!

Mel: Jill, your Ste-e-e-e-eamboat A-Comin'! sounds like nonfiction. Is it? What's the basic plot of that book?

Jill: Ste-e-e-e-eamboat A-Comin'! is the result of me wanting to write SOMEthing having to do with the Mississippi, since I've lived within a few miles of it all my life. Then, one day, I was walking from point to point in a local library, and Mark Twain's Life on the Mississippi was sticking out a bit, there on the nonfiction shelves. I'd never read it, so I pulled it and checked it out. There was a portion of it that just grabbed me immediately. When he described what happened to a sleepy, downriver town upon a visit from a steamboat, I thought "This would make a great kids' book." And then I only had to decide how to bring it to life. I checked out more books and made lonnnng lists of all kinds of things, types of passengers, cargo, etc. Then I sat for hours to find those that rhymed. Lots of work, but it was VERY fun.

Mel: That book sounds like what some might call "faction," Jill, fact+fiction.

Jill: See? There's that blurry line again, Mel!

writermom: What makes a picture book different from a short story?

Jill: Scene changes, for one thing. Also, with a book, you have a chance to get into greater depth, since you'll have those pictures to help tell the story. WITHOUT being too wordy!

craig: How long did you say a picture book has to be?

Jill: As short as a few words, for the youngest books, up to 2000 or more, craig, for picture story books intended for older readers.

Mel: Where do you get your ideas, Jill?

Jill: Overheard conversations, newspaper articles, incidents from my childhood—or somebody else's. Stink Soup was born when a friend of mine told me about the skunk that invaded her family's farmhouse cellar. Also in Stink Soup is my own childhood loathing of tomatoes, and an egg-throwing incident I once participated in (although I was very young, of course).

Mel: How do you begin putting a story together?

Jill: When an idea strikes me, I jot down a few sentence fragments and put them into a file I title "Under Construction." When I finish one project and I'm ready to start another, I go into the file and decide which one appeals to me the most at the moment. Then, I start creating. Sometimes it's the character who comes to life first, other times it's the plot. Then I just start writing rubbish. I'm never satisfied with it, but you have to start somewhere! It's awfully hard for me to keep my BIC during this stage. I jump for joy if the clothes dryer buzzes. Once I have the bare bones of a story written down (and it's terrible, believe me), I write a one-sentence synopsis to boil it down and keep me on track. If this is difficult for you, go to the library and read the SHORT summaries at the front of a hundred picture books. A GREAT way to improve this skill!

Mel: Sounds like Jane Yolen's expression: BIC = "Butt In Chair"—LOL! Can I turn a family story into a picture book?

Jill: Yes, Mel. Some of the best books come from family stories! What you have to remember is that not EVERY detail of the original story will remain. This was one of the BIGGEST problems I had starting out. When basing a story on a real incident, though, you HAVE to let go—distance yourself from the "real" facts. Play with the details. Which ones are absolutely necessary to the story? Which ones are merely interesting.

Mel: How long after you started submitting picture book manuscripts did you say your first one was accepted, Jill?

Jill: Four and a half years, Mel.

Mel: WOW--you've got stick-to-itiveness! Did you say how many times Stink Soup was rejected?

Jill: I only sent it to that one editor I'd met at the retreat.

Mel: And did you receive quite a few other rejections during that time?

Jill: Yes! A few. But mostly, I was concentrating on writing a middle-grade novel.

Mel: How do you keep going in the face of so many rejections?

Jill: I guess because I was getting personal rejections. Also, I had a couple of mentors who made me believe I would eventually be published, one of whom was you, Mel!

Mel: Thank you, Jill! That makes a man feel TEN FEET tall when he's only five-seven! Did somebody really call you the Rejection Queen?

Jill: Yes, my teacher/mentor/friend David Collins, a prolific nonfiction author, who has since passed away. But he called me the Rejection Queen only partly because of the NUMBER of rejections I received. Mostly, it was his amazement at how I reacted to them, that I didn't let them deter me. Well, of course rejection stings! It's just that I got so many I developed an immunity! I learned to let rejection fuel my determination (I'll show them!) instead of ruining my day. When it comes to rejection, we need to develop rhino skin. THere's NO WAY to be successful in this business if we let rejection spoil our fun. Learn to look at rejection as opportunity, hard as that is. If that manuscript wasn't good enough to snag an editor's interest, what can you do to make it better before sending it out again? Keep in mind that editors are unique individuals, each with personal preferences. What appeals to one may turn off another. Thank goodness there are so many different editors at so many different publishers!

Mel: EXCELLENT attitude recommendation, Jill! Was your family supportive at the beginning?

Jill: Um...not supportive, exactly. Reluctantly indulgent, maybe. "Oh, Mom's got a new hobby. Wonder how long this one will last." They have since some around. Truthfully, I used their skepticism to fuel my determination (I honestly didn't know I had this stubborn streak until I began writing!). I know it can be difficult, starting out, if your family doesn't take you seriously—especially your significant other. When, at my mentor's suggestion, I turned to the magazine market, the success I found there altered my family's attitude dramatically. Now they're behind me 100%.

writingbookmom: Also humorous—since you mentioned humor—are Susan Meddaugh's My Dog Can Talk books.

Jill: I haven't read those yet, writingbookmom. I'll have to look for them.

guessit: How important is vivid description in a picture book? Can the pictures in the book take care of the outward appearances of the people and places, etc., in a story?

Jill: There's description and there's description, guessit. You don't need to specify colors, etc. I know it's hard not to give detailed descriptions, especially when you're basing your story on an actual event that happened to one of your own children, for example. But try to get in as much sensory detail as you can, aside from things an illustrator would find intrusive to his creativity, if that makes sense. Let your descriptions detail emotion and character traits instead.

grover: Are these picture book principles you’re talking about the same ones that you could apply to long fiction as well?

Jill: Definitely, grover. Creating a vivid character—bringing that person to life so that anybody reading your story can BELIEVE him or her, that's what it's all about, be it a picture book or a novel.

guessit: What do you think are the three best-kept secrets about publishing picture books, or any children's fiction for that matter?

Jill: I'm supposed to answer this FAST?! LOL! Three best-kept secrets. Gee, guessit, if I knew the secrets, I'd have more than three books signed up!

mbvoelker: Does your picture book advice apply to concept books and toddler's board books? Or do those work differently?

Jill: I haven't tried to write either of those, mbvoelker. Concept books, the ones I've seen, anyway, don't offer a lot of opportunity for character development. And the board books I've seen lately are adaptations of books for older kids. I don't know enough about these genres to give an intelligent answer, truthfully.

rafsangel7: Welcome Jill! I wonder about how long it takes you to write a picture book from start to finish—including the time it takes for you to develop your ideas? Do you send art with your manuscripts to convey your ideas to the editor?

Jill: Of my three accepted picture books, rafsangel7, one took 5 months, one took 2 weeks, and one took 2 days. Not very consistent, I'm afraid. It just depends on how long the idea has been fermenting in my brain. And no, I don't do illustrations, but I might provide an occasional illustration suggestion in brackets, if there's, say, a surprise ending not mentioned in the text.

realityczech: Do you as author have final approval over illustrations?

Jill: Not really, realityczech (love that name). You are asked, perhaps, to fact check illustrations. I've had a bit of input on sketches, but in my Steamboat book, I just rewrote a stanza a few weeks ago because the artist had a slightly different scene painted that didn't exactly match my text. I was given the chance to change my text or say I'd rather not. But I chose to alter my text. It's better now, anyway, in my opinion, so I was happy to make the change.

realityczech: We keep hearing that rhyming books aren't wanted—how did you get the editor to make an exception?

Jill: Most editors don't want to see rhyming books because they see hundreds of books with clunky rhythm or near rhyme. After reading enough of those, they are understandably shying away from more of the same. Rhyme has to be PERFECT, which of course takes LOTS of practice. Also, the rhyme has to tell the story and NO MORE. This can be a problem for beginners, me included. We have a tendency to tell way too much in rhyming stories.

kay kay: You're here to talk about picture books. But have you sold any other types of books?

Jill: No, but I just sent a middle-grade novel out toDAY that I revised per an editor's suggestions. She invited me to resubmit, so I jumped at the chance. It's the editor who just accepted my picture book, so I'm HOPing things will work out.

Mel: I've never seen two hours pass so swiftly, Jill. You have filled this fleeting time with such a wealth of tips and suggestions. And we see a brilliant career just starting for you, with much to come, and much more to share with us. Would you be willing to come back to our chat room again, please?

Jill: Any time, Mel. I've loved chatting with everybody.

Mel: Two weeks from tonight, on February 19, Linda Sue Park will be our chat guest. Linda is the author of A Single Shard, the 2002 Newbery Medal winning children's book, and very deserving of that award. I first heard Linda Sue Park speak at the New York SCBWI conference in February, 2003. Those in the audience expressed over and over again how they felt Linda's talk was the highlight of the entire weekend conference. That day she said, "The Newbery Medal doesn't teach you how to write your next book." With humility and grace, Linda Sue Park is one of the most articulate Newbery winners ever. You'll find solid substance in chatting with her two weeks from now, February 19. A warm welcome to you to return then!

kay kay: Congratulations, Jill, on your sale!

Jill: Thank you, kay kay!

Mel: Goodnight, everyone, THANKS for coming!