Jan is Jan Fields, moderator of this interview with Kathleen Duey, and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site. Green shows names or usernames of people and the questions they asked Deborah.

Jan: Hi, and welcome to tonight's special event -- a chat with guest speaker, Kathleen Duey. Welcome, Kathleen -- I am so happy to have you here tonight!

Kathleen: So am I. Several poeple were kind enough to email to welcome me.

Jan: Are you having piles of fun answering all that fan mail about Unicorn's Secret?

Kathleen: Beyond fun. It is...it makes the work worth all the hours. Fan mail is the thing that closes the loop bewteen intent and result. It is SO wonderful.

Jan: So, did the vast amount of fan mail come as a surprise, considering that was hardly one of your first books?

Kathleen: Well, I put my website on the covers and expected some response, but the volume is amazing. 3-5 a day now, for four years.

Jan: Wow.

Kathleen: Glenda, I think it is. There is some invisible "enough years have passed" line, though. You don't want to offend living family of the characters. It can be touchy. Using real characters from history and making up personalities for them is done all the time. I don’t like to do it.

Kathleen: Ann Rinaldi made up a character using a real name of a Native American girl in one of the “indoctrination” schools where they were systematically stripped of their culture, not allowed family visits, etc. in a misguided attempt to assimilate them. In her story, the girl is eventually grateful for the experience, hard though it has been. The girl whose name Ann used—from a gravestone near the school—was the name of a girl who had suicided—as so many did. There were more suicides than graduates in that school. There was quite an uproar over the book. I don’t think using real names and making up personalities and events is a great idea. So many people have an interest in their geneology now that some might take personal offense if you endow Great Grandpa with attributes less than heroic. I sometimes use a first name from primary sources if it is wonderful and catches my heart—but I will select a surname from another source or make one up.

Kathleen: Now if it is YOUR family, you can take some liberites, of course. But I still think you should stay as close to reality as you can from the research available.

Kathleen: I'm not sure. Check out The US copyright office on “fair use” http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html

Kathleen: We could spend an hour on this one alone. The short andswer is, EVERYWHERE. Something just catches your eye, your heart..I dream a lot, too, vivid dreams. Sometimes a face just has a story in it, or someone on the plane starts talking. It is just the whirling of theworld and suddenly you see something and wonder, what if. I know that's corny, but it is true for me. The thing is this. The imagination is a muscle. Use it and it firms up and supports more weight. If ideas are a little hard for you, make a conscious decision to let them in. it takes ten or twenty bad to medium ones to get one really good one. You have to open the faucet and stand back.The trick it to stuff a sock in the mouth of your internal criticism.

Kathleen: Well, it isn't at the forefront like it was a few years ago. Fantasy is raging now. Historicals don't ever really go out, though. Nothing ever disappears. It is all in finding the right editor on the right day with a great story. I know that is wearying, but it is the abominable truth.

Kathleen: There are 19 American Diaries. There are 11 Survival books. The Unicorn's Secret has 8 titles. There are three of the Spirit books I did as a tie in to the DreamWorks movie and 8 Hoofbeats books. I began writing series because I was just divorced, broke and didn't want a day job! Really, it was a financial decision. But I loved series as a kid, too and now I have trouble thinking of single title ideas.

Kathleen: They combine two loves..they are historical horse stories. It is two sets of four books each. The first is Katie and the Mustang, and American westward migration setting. The second set is Lara and the Silver Filly, medieval Ireland. I was in heaven writing them. I am adding three single titles to the batch now. They have sold well. Who knew? Horse girls are still with us.

Kathleen: I am not sure. ALL things YA seem to be getting a lot of attention so I imagine that the nonfiction is doing well, too. Ask a librarian. Or an independent bookseller. They know EVERYHING!! Never miss a chance to ask, "What are poeple asking for that you don't have enough of?"

Jan: Most YA nonfiction I see in stores (thus, most YA nonfiction) tends to be very self-help...YA is a "what's in it for me" crowd so they don't have a lot of interest in info for info's sake. So, you'd probably do best with self-help-ish YA nonfic...the whole DIY [DIY = Do It Yourself] craze is blooming in YA magazines so it's overflowing in YA nonfic books too.

Kathleen: Yes, now that you say it, I have seen that, too.

Jan: Haunting bookstores is a GREAT way to see what's being published in every area.

Kathleen: yesyesyesyes yes!

Kathleen: For me, often it is a piece of primary source. Some snippet of a diary, some letter. I made up a list of some links so you wouldn't have to sit through it while I typed all this...

Kathleen: HISTORICAL RESEARCH LINKS
5000 links to repositories of primary sources, world wide. http://www.uidaho.edu/special-collections/Other.Repositories.html
A list of historical societies, nationwide http://www.daddezio.com/society/hill/index.html
Online library. Amazing depth. Not free. Costs about 120$ a year and saves me at least twice that in buying books. http://www.questia.com/
Fabulous source for used, out of print, etc. Links the inventories of about 5000 used and rare bookstores nationwide (and some UK) http://www.bookfinder.com

Kathleen: The University of Idaho site will delight you. You can track down almost anything. The list of historical societies will save you years. The resarch is the process that lets me start hearing the voice, feeling the petticoats, tasting the chick peas.

Kathleen: I can usually remember which book something was in. My desk slowly gets covered with books as I work. I used to take notes, but with series, there is always time-pressure, so it devolved into using post-it notes, labeled with reminders like: “detail descrpt of stables” or “girl who carried message to Washington” or whatever. I stick them to the page, sticking out enough so that I can read the note. I usually put together a word document as well, cutting and pasting stuff from the web and including the link so I can go recheck the sources. I often phone interview people and I either record the conversations or use a headset so that I have both hands free to type copious notes. I put all loose sheets into labeled manila folders.

Kathleen: The bottom line on organization is a happy compromise between ease of filing and ease of retrieval -- easiest filing method? Piles. Easiest retrieval? A system more complex than I care to live with. See what works as you go.

Kathleen: Well, I think your books, or mine, will often be a child's first introduction to that era. So I take it seriously. Most of what is in my books DID happen to someone and came from primary source. I blend lives to get more drama but the events happened to someone. It resonates, I think. It lends veracity and depth to the work if it is as real as you can make it.

Jan: Kathleen, some of our viewers are confused about blending events from real life...you do it because you're writing historical FICTION, right...that's why it's okay, it's not nonfiction...just accurate to the time period. Right? You're blending the lives of everyday people, not major historical figures like Washington and Franklin.

Kathleen: Accurate and often documented--take from someone's diary or a contemporary newspaper, etc. If you work from primary source, too, no one can ever tell you you got it wrong...it is a protection of sorts. And reading words written from your period (if it is recent enough) will give you a background you will just...absorb.

Jan: So no one will say...hey, they didn't eat pastrami back then, because you got it from a diary that SOMEONE did.

Kathleen: Exactly, Jan. And I have had the evil satisfaction of showing someone the source. An historian who was so SURE he had caught me.

Kathleen: Ah. The horses are all very realistic. I grew up riding, had my own horses and rode the foothills of the Rockies every single day after school, etc. So I am familiar with horse "body English," and that is what I use, just what anyone familiar with a horse-friend would notice. They DO communicate, but I don't super-size it. Unicorns communicate, but it is subtle, too and the human characters don't learn how to "speak unicorn." I think anthropomorphising has to be brillliant, or it sucks. It's like rhyme. Touchy, touchy....has to be great or it kills the work.

Kathleen: I am a fly into the mist-er as Jane Yolen says. I do interview characters (not build, interview. It is a VERY different process) And I know the beginning and the end. Then I just launch.

Kathleen: Diaries, newspapers, laws, period photos, old account books, maps, anything produced during the period. I have used statute law books to determine whether a treet had lamps, for instance. There was usually a law stating who had to maintain them.

Kathleen: Thank you. It *thrills* me when people appreciate the research work!

Jan: How much time do you usually put into research vs. amount for the actual writing? Is there a usual ratio-ish amount?

Kathleen: I differs, but easily twice as much. But I write fast. Here is a tip. Dredge the internet with your key words. You will find books, websites, and the occasional course prospectus, Historical societies, re-enactor groups, etc. Write them and ask what books you MUST read. The lists will overlap. Start with those. I send out ten, twenty emails, introducing myself, the work, etc. About half respond with lists and suggestions, names of local experts, etc.

Kathleen: When you can feel yourself inside your protagnoists body and can speak in his or her voice. That means, for me, knowing what they wore, worried about, ate, aspirations. If you ever have a girl RUN wearing a hoopskirt, I will show up at your door.... :0)

Kathleen: Sure! I remember your question from the ones Jan showed me....if you lived it, you can certainly write it better than most.

Kathleen: No. But the lines do blur. I would just market it as fantasy based on research. I think historical fiction brings an expectation of a real setting.

Kathleen: There is never a satisfying answer to that kind of question. I know some editors are sick of fantasy, but it is still selling. And the marketing dept. has the final voite all too often. Every editor is different, of course, they have their tastes and preferences. I had a conversation in an airport with an editor who said she was starving for books about real, normal kids. Trends come and go. The truth is it is hard to break in, period. SCBWI, ICL, all the help people are getting is producing great writers and lots of them. My best advice is write your deepest heart, work hard at it and try to find the unusual storyline. We have been born, as writers, into a time when virtually every story has been written, and written well. Something interestingly unique can't help but get attention. Another beautifully written story about a child moving to a new town...it's harder.

Jan: Our chatters want to know more about this editor and his/her perception of "normal kids."

Kathleen: I asked. I said something like, "do you mean less fantasy elements?" She nodded. I asked, "stries more about everyday life?" She shook her head and repeated it. "Normal kids in unusual situations." I think she means kids who are not children of destiny, blessed with super abilities, brainiacs, etc. And I can't say her name but she was a president and publisher as well as an exec editor...I think the nest way to jump the trends is to read and talk to librarians, booksellers and ask them what they don't have enough of.

Kathleen: I haven't. I am going to look into it.

Kathleen: It is so hard to say. It isn't making the in roads that people thought it would yet. Part of that is that the reading devices or the screen isn't as comfortable, as cozy... But there are myriad generations rising behind us who are completely comfy with screens and devices.

Kathleen: I have done a little NF. I gave them their own page and labeled them "sidebar." The editor seemed to like it that way--so that I wasn't assuming how she would position it. But in the final book, they are put in according to the book designer's expertise...

Kathleen: The Unicorn's Secret is based on a dreamplace I went to every night for about 18 months--third and fourth grade. I would close my eyes here and wake up...there. And the reverse. The plot is better now, but the setting is the one I dreamed. I can still decide what to dream if I want to. If I ask kids at schools if they can the little ones ALL can. By fifth grade, it's two or three per hundred.

Kathleen: Well, at this point, they contact me. But it took some years to build the network. Begin at a bookstore. They often have teacher's nights. Ask if you can present. Ditto you local library. Do it free. Be great. Hand out your cards. I appeared dozens of times in the same bookstore--and the owner would invite different schools to have a field trip to the store...Using me as bait. we sent home neat little flyers (I wrote them) naming the books we would sell and autograph after the free author visit. I worked beautifully... It was good for the store (See Mom? This is where we came for our field trip!) And teachers and librarians and pricipals and parents come as chaperones--so you get to audition. Word spreads. A web site helps, too. Last year I got to do a week of school in Morocco. This year I will go to Dubai and United Arab Emirates.

Jan: Wow!

Kathleen: It is HUGE adventure for me. I haven't traveled all that much. And doing schools, you build your audience. And they pay you. Too wonderful!

Kathleen: No, I don't think so. Marketing tends to like curricula eras. Bless their limited little hearts. The trouble is that those eras have been written spitless. I don't want to advise you to write to market. I have, but it isn't the best way to build you longer career... YOu should write what makes you excited, what infatuates you enough to survive the long marriage of writing the book... and if you miss the trend, put it in a drawer and just keep writing. Whatever is hard to sell now will be easy again in five years. Or two.

Kathleen: M.T. Coffin (get it?) I did four books. It was the Avon response to Goose bumps and I was just starting and they offered me....money. It was an education. I am writing for adults now. It will be under Kathleen Peery, I think. Or Gleason. It is NOT literature....just solidly written recreation reading for adults. I want to pay off my house before I die... I am working with a partner on an animation project, too. I fish around. I like the variety.

Kathleen: Sure. Well done, I think it is supremely relevant. And uproar means publicity. If you can stand the heat, you can cook a career in that kitchen. Ask Blume, Crutcher, etc...

Kathleen: I just think it has to be really well done. Mostly it is NOT well done. And there is an antique feel to it, too. That said, one of my protagonists (plural, yes, a weird structure) in my new Ya fantasy for Atheneum (there is an exceptr on my web site) can communicate with animals. I tried to do it in a different, realistic way. Realistically fantastic, I guess. You need the Kryptonite or Superman isn't interesting.

Kathleen: If they are fascinating, sure. The trick is to keep the feeling of inevitability, they suspension of disbelief. Part of that, for me, is to restrain yourself a bit. And let me quickly add that Rowling has more sight gags than any cartoon and.... I think we all know it worked just fine for her. make the reader care. If you can do that, all is forgiven.

Kathleen: ALWAYS my choice. The adult books are with a woman I met through my website. The animation guy is an exec in a big entertainment company. The referral came out of the blue though an old friend and I am delighted. This is a stupendous opportunity for me. he already has a studio interested. We shall see. But, it's important to build the network, hand out your cards, try to sound smart and creative, then keep in touch at intervals.

Jan: Another of our chatters (I'm so sorry, I forgot who) says her daughter LOVES your unicorn series and wants to know if you plan to do more books in that series?

Kathleen: oh, that makes me so happy to hear...I want to. S&S won't listen to new projects until I finish the triad for Atheneum. The original idea was unicorns, then faeries, the dragons, all little series, all interlocked, taking place in my dream lands.

Kathleen: Generally, a series is open -ended. A sequel is a single title folloing another single title that sold so well that marketing asked for more. if THAT sells well, you end up with a series if the author is willing. June B. Jones was means as a one-off. A trilogy is a threesome, designed to fill three books. Sometimes they can stand alone, not always. I am calling my YA fantasy a triad because I am trying to be clever and sound original. It is a trilogy in a sea of other trilogies because they are hot just now.

Kathleen: Fourth grade. Then got serious at 38, pubbed first book at forty.

Jan: Our chatters say that is very encouraging to writers who are a bit older and beginning their writing now.

Kathleen: I mean it to be. I am 55 now and about to debut as a hardcover literary author. Wish me luck.

Jan: Extra special good luck to you!

Kathleen: Sure. I have seen several. There has to ba a compelling reason for the search. Not just curiosity. Make it believable that the protagonist cares that much. make a reason, a connection, a need to know.

Kathleen: None!

Kathleen: Always. That means they are alive and that's the good news. never ask what should happen next.....Ask what would he/she DO next. That's your plot.

Kathleen: I don't know. Maybe. I just think you walk thin ice with the family if they read the books and you have portrayed their ancestor unflatteringly. I think that I would not. I never have, except my own great grandfather, oddly, in a shipwreck story, too...

Kathleen: Nuance--I hate the pure good and pure evil stuff. Too childlike in its world view for me. And I like real emotional depth. Not just saving the world, but saving a heart, a soul, too. I love the expanse of fantasy, though. That's the trick. The reader has to move in and live there, for the duration. The reader has to believe it.. Nuance, detail, logic within the fantastic.

Jan: I want to thank you so much for all your great answers.

Kathleen: I have completely enjoyed it. Anyone with further questions can email me through my website. it might take a while, but I will answer...http://www.kathleenduey.com

Jan: Thank you also to everyone who came tonight and asked such great questions. And good night.