Instititute of Children's Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"Character Growth" with Dorothy Francis.

Thursday, October 25, 2001

Moderator is Kristi Holl, web editor for this site and author of 24 books and 150+ articles. She also taught writing for children for 15 years.

Dorothy is Dorothy Francis, award-winning author of over 50 books for children. Dorothy has taught at many writers' conferences, including the University of Iowa's Summer Writing Festival. She has recently finished a six-book mystery series for Perfection Learning Corp. and a biography of Clara Barton for the Millbrook Press biographical series.

Names color coded in blue are viewers who had questions.

Interviews are held on Thursday nights for two hours beginning [9 CANADA/Atlantic], 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening! I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator for the evening and the web editor for this site. Tonight with us we have Dorothy Francis, award-winning author of over 50 books for children. Dorothy has taught at many writers' conferences including the University of Iowa's Summer Writing Festival. Tonight she'll be talking about the subject of "Character Growth." Welcome, Dorothy!

Dorothy: Hi, everyone.

Moderator: Dorothy, how did you begin writing and first get published?

Dorothy: I started by writing light verse. Several were published and paid for---and I was hooked. From there I started writing children's short stories, mostly for the denominational market.

Moderator: You've published over 50 books for children! What types of things have you published over the years?

Dorothy: I've published middle-grade books and teen romance. Also, I've published a mystery series for middle graders. And along the way I've done some nonfiction for middle grade and teens, then after that some poetry that wasn't published.

Moderator: When asked what kind of books she liked to read, one child replied, "I like books where the main character is different at the end of the book from what she was at the beginning." Dorothy, why do you suppose this is true?

Dorothy: I think all readers like to read about a protagonist that changes. They just may not realize it at the time.

Moderator: For the purposes of the interview tonight, what constitutes character growth or change?

Dorothy: Character growth happens when the protagonist changes her way of thinking about something important. But that isn't all. She must also show change by changing her actions. So two things must happen--a change of thinking, and a change of action due to the change of thinking.

Moderator: Can you give us an example from your own writing that would show this kind of growth or change?

Dorothy: In my book THE FLINT HILLS FOAL, the protagonist, Kathy, had a physical problem. She wanted to train an orphan foal at a nearby ranch. But everyone said she was too small and too young. Her psychological problem was a fear that she was losing her father's love to her stepbrother. But by trying to train and foal and failing, she learned that her stepbrother wasn't her enemy after all. Once she did him a favor, he softened up and they could work together. Once she changed her thinking about him, that enabled her to change her actions toward him and they became friends.

Moderator: But kids just want stories that entertain, don't they? (Instead of being taught something?)

Dorothy: The first thing fiction should do is to entertain. So give kids the entertainment, then work in the character growth.

Moderator: What about parents' and teachers' desires, and therefore editors' desires?

Dorothy: All of the adult readers--parents, teachers, editors, reviewers--they all want to see a story in which the protagonist grows in her thinking and her ability to get along in the world. It is essential. Adults look for it. If it isn't there, your story is unlikely to see print.

genna: Do you need change in a secondary character, if the main character brings about the change?

Dorothy: A change in the secondary characters is quite likely to happen as a result of the change in the main character.

christine collier: Dorothy, when you publish a mystery series, do you find that all books sell about the same amount, or does the first one sell way more? I wonder if most kids follow the series.

Dorothy: I can' t answer that for sure because my first book in the Cody Smith mystery series came out a year before the others in the series. So far I haven' t received a royalty statement on the whole series. Of course, I hope readers will follow the whole series.

ValerieG: How do you know when you have a truly well-developed character?

Dorothy: I make character sheets for each character in a story. I answer all sorts of questions about a character. Age? Hobby? What do they like to spend money on? What is the home situation? Happy? Divorced parents? Anything you can know about your character will help.

SaraJ: When you are outlining your plot, do you outline around the character change, or does it just kind of happen during the course of the story? Or do you consciously add it?

Dorothy: I usually create the characters first, but yes, I do consider the plot, too. Hardly ever will important things just happen. I plan carefully. I outline the book in general terms as to chapters--always working to the final chapter. I once read that Truman Capote wrote the last chapter of his books first. Then he worked toward that last chapter. It' s not a bad idea to do that, but I've never actually written the last chapter first.

genna: How far in depth do you go with choosing your characters? Do you start with naming them or what they look like or does that come later on?

Dorothy: I think name choices are a very good starting point in creating characters. Can you visualize a character named Scarlet? And another named Violet? Names make a difference.

Moderator: In reality, people change very slowly. How do you realistically show character growth in a short story?

Dorothy: You show character growth in a short story in the same way you show it in a book. You just have fewer words to use. But you need a problem. A struggle. Some failure. Your character learns from her own failure. And her failure causes her to change her thinking. Don't have your character change because some adult told her to. She should change because she sees the errors of her ways and realizes she can do better, make better choices.

Moderator: What kinds or types of character growth might be possible within the confines of a short story?

Dorothy: In my retold folk tale "Anansi the Spider" Anansi wanted the stories the animals told at sunset called the Anansi stories instead of the tiger stories. Tiger said, okay, we'll do that if you bring Snake to me alive. Anansi tried 3 times to capture Snake--and failed. Then on the 4th try he appealed to Snake' s vanity, telling Snake that he, Anansi, could prove Snake was the longest animal in the jungle if he would stretch out beside a long piece of bamboo. Snake did that. And Anansi tied him to the bamboo and took him to Tiger. The stories were then called the Anansi stories. Anansi became more confident once he learned that a weak spider could outsmart a strong snake.

Moderator: Can a series character change, or must they stay the same for the sake of the series?

Dorothy: This is a bit harder to do. The series character does have to stay the same. To do this in my Cody Smith series, I gave Cody the problem of wanting to be famous. He wants fame because his dad deserted the family, and Cody thinks that if he is famous Dad might come home. So the want-to-be-famous theme is in each book. Once he tries to wear the same Band-Aid for a year. Another time he wants to get his picture on a postage stamp. But in each individual book Cody meets a problem that he must solve and in doing so, he fails, fails again, then has a success that changes his thinking and his actions.

Moderator: You showed us that short story characters can grow. Can picture book characters show growth--and how?

Dorothy: Yes, picture book characters grow, too. I' m a reviewer for Multicultural Review, and a book titled DAVID'S DRAWINGS just crossed my desk. David was a lonely boy on page 1. On the way to school, he passed a lone tree on a hilltop. When David reached school he sat by himself, drawing a picture of that tree. One by one, other kids joined him to watch. One child asked to draw on some leaves. David let her do that. Another child asked to draw some people under the tree. David allowed that. And so on until lots of kids had helped with the drawing. At recess time, David smiled at his new friends. They all went outside to play together. David had learned that his talent for drawing could attract friends and he used that talent to make friends on the playground.

Moderator: When in the story do you start showing character growth?

Dorothy: In David's story I think the change starts when he allows the first child to add to his picture.

Ceilt: How do you fully develop a character in 500 short words?

Dorothy: The same way as in a longer story. Problem. Attempts to solve the problem. Failure. Success. Change of thinking. Change of action that shows a result of changed thinking.

MBVoelker: Is it necessary for a character to think about or talk about the change in himself? To even realize it consciously? In real life people don't spend all that much time staring into their own heads and thinking that way.

Dorothy: No. The character needn't talk or think about the change in his growth. It's probably better if he doesn't. Editors dislike come-to-realize endings in stories.

ValerieG: Are successfully published authors who don't do a lot of prewriting in the minority, rare? Some say to pre-write, outline and brainstorm, etc. Some say that they write, and let the story unfold in progress. Does the "unfolding publishable story" come with experience, or is this just a gift?

Dorothy: I'm the kind of writer who has to know almost exactly where I'm going with a story. I think lots of writers who say they can start a story but cannot finish it are writers who didn't know where they were going with their story. Would you start out on a long journey without a map? It's sort of the same principle.

spankee: Some of my characters I can visualize what they look like, but I have a hard time putting a name to that character. I try not to use common everyday names, but one that will catch the reader's eye. What is your secret to putting a face to a name or a name to a face?

Dorothy: Sometimes I study a name-the-baby book to find a variety of names. In addition to finding a name that suits the character you have in mind, there are other things to think about. Try not to use the same initial letter in more than one name. (No Sally and Suzie.) Try to vary the number of syllables in the names, and if you can vary the accents, so much the better.

Moderator: How do you decide how you want a character to grow in a story? How do you make that decision?

Dorothy: This may be a result of choosing a story theme. If you choose a simple theme such as "honesty is the best policy," then you'll want your character to grow in traits of honesty. Maybe he/she is tempted to do the dishonest thing. Something must happen to change the protagonist's thinking. And growth and change in juvenile characters should be positive. Leave negative growth to writers of adult books.

Sissyg: How do you get your ideas for your character growth? Do you free-write or brainstorm first and then make an outline?

Dorothy: Yes, I do a lot of thinking about the story and the characters before I put anything on paper or into the computer.

martys: Do you usually start with the theme or a character when constructing a story?

Dorothy: I try to start with a character and then give that character an important problem to solve.

genna: I know you said not to have adults MAKE the changes in the character. Is it okay to use an animal or another child to make the changes or use gentle prodding that in turn subtly begins initiating a change?

Dorothy: Yes, gentle prodding is okay. Grandma can suggest, but the child must be free to make the important decision as to action. Character and plot are closely intertwined.

ppaucha: How do you choose an event that stimulates the change in the character? There are always so many possibilities, so how do you select the 'right' one for the protagonist?

Dorothy: It's a matter of choice. An important happening in the child's life often starts the change in the character. In THE FLINT HILLS FOAL, Jay, the stepbrother, was always telling Kathy how much he hated horses. But when a horse scares him, he drops his secret notebook in his haste to escape. Kathy looks at the scattered pages and sees pictures of horses that Jay has drawn. This makes her wonder if he hates horses because he's afraid of them. She tries to win his friendship by teaching him to care for horses and to ride a horse. This works. Jay becomes more friendly and Kathy learns that he doesn't hate her and that he isn't trying to usurp her place in her father's heart.

martys: If you have trouble liking your character after working with her, do you scrap her, or continue to struggle?

Dorothy: I think it would be terribly hard to use a main character that you didn't like. I couldn't do it. I'd start over in my thinking. Maybe the same story could be told from a different viewpoint.

renemsn: How much do you research for your stories, or do you draw your ideas from your own life experiences?

Dorothy: Many times I do a considerable amount of research on the story background and of course I draw on my own personal experiences or on the experiences of those around me.

Moderator: What about "showing vs. telling" when it comes to character growth?

Dorothy: You must SHOW the character growth and to do this, show your growing character in meaningful action. Telling about the growth just won't do.

ziegler: You said some writers have not planned very well because they write the beginning and middle of the story, but when they get to the end they become stuck. What do you do if you feel you planned it out, yet still become stuck for an ending?

Dorothy: Then I know I didn't plan well enough. True, endings may change by the time you get to them. Remember that an outline isn't carved in stone. You can change it and take your character where you need her to go.

ValerieG: Do you keep a card file? I've heard that some writers keep index cards for things like plots, themes and personality traits?

Dorothy: No, I don't do this. But it might be a good idea.

MBVoelker: What about the other characters in a story? Should they be growing too or is it good to hold them static for contrast? Would that differ between a short story and a novel?

Dorothy: I don't think any characters remain completely static. A change in your protagonist will bring about some changes in the other characters. For instance in the Anansi story, Tiger was king of the sundown stories at the opening of the tale. At the end he became secondary to Anansi who had proved that wit can be as important as physical strength.

Moderator: How can you make the character's growth gradual enough to be realistic, yet get it in the space of a short story with maybe just three scenes?

Dorothy: Sometimes stories may have more than 3 scenes, I think. After each failure, the protagonist may experience a slight change in thinking, or at least be wondering why the failure happened. This gradually leads to a change, a big change, in thinking.

Moderator: Are certain types of books "exempt" from needing character growth? For instance, do mysteries require this since it's mostly about plot?

Dorothy: Yes, mysteries require character growth, too. In my Cody Smith series, Cody learns in one book that weird characters may have good ideas. In another book, he learns that he can help others and at the same time get what he wants.

Moderator: How do you know, if you don't have children, what you can realistically expect in the way of character growth in children of certain ages?

Dorothy: It really helps to have a child or two around the house. If you don't have any children, try to borrow some. Listen to the neighbor kids. Listen to the paper boy. Listen to the checkout boy at the grocery store. If it's possible visit a schoolroom. Ask the teacher first, of course. Another idea is to visit your public library on "story day" in the juvenile department.

Moderator: Does a protagonist have to totally overcome her problem by the end of the book, or could showing some improvement be enough?

Dorothy: Showing improvement in the protagonist would be enough. In fact, readers probably aren't going to believe a complete turnaround.

Moderator: How closely is the character growth tied to the plot or main action? In a book, is the character growth a subplot that's added on?

Dorothy: You might consider the character growth a subplot, I suppose. In THE FLINT HILLS FOAL, Kathy's main problem is getting to care for the orphan foal. But her growth in understanding her stepbrother is an important part of the story. Call it a subplot if you will.

Moderator: Since many children don't have the insight into their own actions and motives that we might want them to have, is it okay to use a mentor or book that is read or something as a catalyst to help the main character see her mistakes?

Dorothy: Yes, this is a good idea. Grandma can help out here. Just don't let the whole thing be her idea. Grandmothers are good for this. They are a bit farther removed from a child's life than parents. Of course, a child could get ideas from a book. That's what writers hope for---to give readers ideas they can use in real life.

Moderator: Can you have a hero who shows change, but in a negative way? Or should that always be left to a minor character?

Dorothy: I think it's best to have characters, especially heroes, change in positive ways. I don't think editors would buy a book in which the hero changed in negative ways.

Moderator: Because children live in different types of families and different situations than they did 20 years ago, is the character growth and change needed different?

Dorothy: No, I don't think the growth and change are very much different. People may differ in their thinking, but their feelings remain much the same. If a person is snubbed today by the rock crowd, it's not much different from the character of yesterday who was snubbed by the minuet crowd. Feelings remain the same. Hurt is hurt. Happiness is happiness.

Moderator: To show this growth in a story, do you need to have the main character dealing with the same situation (like a bully he's afraid of) in both the beginning and ending? Or can you show growth without exactly repeating the situation that defeated him at first?

Dorothy: I think it helps if the situation remains the same. Or at least the basic element of the situation remains the same. The child learns to conquer his fear.

Moderator: I'm sorry to have to stop here, but we're out of time. Dorothy, thank you so much for coming tonight and sharing with us from your many years of experience in writing meaningful stories for children. Character growth can be a difficult concept sometimes, but you've helped a lot!

Dorothy: I'm glad I could be here, and I hope it was helpful to you all!

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks on November 8 when our subject will be "Revisions: the Real Art of Writing." Kim Siegelson will be our speaker. She's won several awards for her books, including an American Librarian Association Award in 2000. She has been a writer-in-residence at the Disney Institute in Orlando. Her latest picture book, as well as a novel, are upcoming from Hyperion Publishers. You won't want to miss her talk! And now, good night, everyone!

Return to Transcripts

93 Long Ridge Road, West Redding, CT 06896
Phone: (203) 792-8600 (800) 243-9645
Fax: (203) 792-8406
E-Mail: WebEditor@institutechildrenslit.com

Copyright � The Institute, Inc., 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
No part of the electronic transmission to which this notice is appended may be reproduced or redistributed in any form or manner without the express written permission of The Institute, Inc.