Instititute of Children's Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"A Look at Writing Your Own Fiction Series" with Dandi Daley Mackall

Thursday, February 14, 2002

Moderator: is Kristi Holl, Web Editor for the Institute's web site. Kristi is author of 24 juvenile novels and 150+ articles and has taught writing at the Institute of Children's Literature for l5 years.

Dandi is Dandi Daley Mackall, author of over 300 books with more than twenty publishers. She is the author of nine published series, from picture books up to young adult. They include HORSEFEATHERS!, CINNAMON LAKE MYSTERIES, PUZZLE CLUB MYSTERIES, JENNY & JOSH, ALI CAT, LITTLE BLESSINGS, WINNIE THE HORSE GENTLER and I'M NOT AFRAID. She was also the creative director for the TODAY'S GIRLS.COM series.

Names color coded in blue are audience members who had questions.

Interviews are scheduled for Thursday evenings: 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening, everyone! I'm your moderator, Kristi Holl, and tonight I'm delighted to have with me a dear friend, Dandi Daley Mackall, who will be talking to us about "A Look at Writing Your Own Fiction Series." Dandi has published over 300 books with more than twenty different publishers and is the author of nine published series! Welcome, Dandi!

Dandi: Hi! Thanks for asking me! I know I'm in the company of the most dedicated writers! Valentine's Night--good priorities, guys!

Moderator: Dandi, could you first give a brief description of the different series you've worked on? (Then our viewers will know the range of your work and what kinds of questions you could best answer.)

Dandi: Well, I've written for all age groups. For YA, I did Horsefeathers. I'm writing Winnie the Horse Gentler for middle grades. Chapter book series were Cinnamon Lake Mysteries and Puzzle Club Mysteries. Oh--and Today's Girls.Com for middle grade. I've done a bunch of picture book and board book series, like the one I'm working on now, I'm Not Afraid.

SaraJ: How many books were in these series, or did they vary?

Dandi: Hi, Sara. Good question. I2 is my record for teen fiction. After that, I'm ready for a new series. Some of the board books were mini-series, groups of 4 concepts, for example.

Moderator: First, let's define series. What makes a series?

Dandi: That's a tough question, actually. I define series as a group of books with a regular release plan. (Can't be just a sequel or a couple of follow ups.) But the books might be linked by theme, character, concepts. As long as you plan to keep it going, I think it's a series.

cosmo: What is your favorite age group to write a series for, and why?

Dandi: Cosmo, my best answer is that it's the age group I'm writing for at the time! Right now I'm writing for kids 8-12 in a horse series, and it seems the best. But I love series for younger kids, too...and for YA...hmmm.

Moderator: How do you convince a publisher your idea is worth multiple books in the first place?

Dandi: There are several things you can do to increase your odds at making a series happen. Some of the magic works...some does not. Here goes. Know your market! If you can tell a publisher you have just the series he needs, the age group she's missing, then you'll be heard. Get yourself a HOOK! Why is your series unique? Does it promise great things to come? For example, I sold Cinnamon Lake Mysteries because I promised the kids would solve all mysteries by knowing nature clues. Readers would learn about nature. Winnie the Horse Gentler hooked my editor because there were no books out there about teen horse whisperers and because 8-12s love animals. You need a cast of characters, too--quirky characters people will want to follow. And more than anything, you need to convince your editor you're creating a world kids will want to keep coming back to!

red2: When you sit down to write, do you know you will be writing a series or does that come to you after you get into the initial story?

Dandi: I always know. It's just not the same as a single novel. I can envision what's down the road, the future plots.

joanie: When you wrote your first Little Blessings book, did you intend for it to be the start of a series or did you write it as a single title?

Dandi: Hi, joanie. Actually, someone else had written a couple of Little Blessing books, more of a series of questions and answers. Then the publisher came to me and asked if I could develop the line with stories and fun books kids that age would get into.

Valentine: Do you know how many books will be in the series before you start?

Dandi: If I'm selling board books as a series, I usually suggest 4, with a promise of a follow-up 4. For teen fiction, you have to plan on at least 6, more likely 8, possibly 12.

cosmo: Have you ever written just one book or do you always do series?

Dandi: I mostly write single books, in fact. Most of my picture books are stand-alones.

Moderator: Is there a trick to writing a winning proposal?

Dandi: Maybe a trick--for certain, a lot of work. I go all out on a proposal. If they don't like your proposal, you're sunk! Here goes for tips. First, read a lot of back-jacket copy, that promo material on the back of books. Write your lead paragraph like that! In a few sentences, describe the overall series in a "Series Overview." Next, I do character profiles, bringing out what's unique, funny, amazing about each main character. I do a summary of Book 1, and little blurbs for the others in the series, roughly, since I don't know actually what they are yet! The piece many leave out of the proposal puzzle is perhaps the most important to your publisher. It's marketing! I actually write up a marketing report. I name the competition, title and author, and explain why mine's different or better. I try not to leave anything out because they'll know. Editors have to do this to sell your idea. So you're starting great relations already by doing the editor's work for him!

Moderator: Is the first book in a series different from a stand-alone novel that will have no sequels?

Dandi: Yes! First, it has to be every bit as good as a stand-alone. Seriously! But even though it's complete, with a satisfying resolution, you can't resolve everything, right? You have to hint of future conflict, leave room for expansion of your plot. Don't let all the bad guys see the light, for example. But most importantly, leave your readers in a world that is set up for return. That's the big difference--the set-up! For Winnie the Horse Gentler, she tames her horse in Book One, Wild Thing. But at the end, she starts a business for problem horses. She's all set for her first client.

Moderator: Let's talk about time. What about time progression in a teen series? Is it December in book 1, then January in Book 2?

Dandi: That's something you and your editor have to agree upon eventually. In my mysteries, it was whatever season I felt like! In Winnie, plots are more complex and chronology became important. So each book covers about 2 weeks, and time does progress. That means I have to be careful and not jump too much time between books or the characters will age too fast!

Moderator: What about seasons, if you don't name the times?

Dandi: If you don't care about the times and days, you just use whatever season you feel like. It sounds odd, but readers don't seem to notice.

Moderator: Dandi, what are some advantages of writing your own series?

Dandi: I'll be honest. One big one is the steady cash! It's nice knowing where my next 11 books will be coming from! I find that each book in a series usually pays as much as a stand-alone book. But $$ isn't the only plus. It's fun to come back to a world you've created, like visiting old friends. I look forward to hooking up with Winnie and Catman and the gang, and I miss characters in other books. Another plus is publicity. A publisher will usually put more money behind a bigger investment, like a series. You promote the series, so Book 1 constantly gets a push, even when you're on book 8. Another plus is a long-term relationship with a publisher. You feel like an insider. Finally, research helps all the books. I read through countless horse and animal books for this animal series, and I keep files for later use.

cosmo: Is it hard finding ideas to keep a series going?

Dandi: Good, question, cosmo! Sometimes it does seem hard. That's probably why I max out at about 12 books. There's only so far you can go to wrench the guts out of your main character. But plots are everywhere. Usually by the time I finish one, there's a seed of an idea there for the next.

Moderator: Is there a downside to having your own series?

Dandi: Yep. It's a hectic pace! This week I mailed in my ms. for Book 4 in the Winnie series. I had to decide what horse I wanted on the cover of Book 6 (and I didn't have a plot yet). At the same time, I read proofs for Book 2 and did final edits on book 3! All consuming. Another downside can be character development. I make my main character go through full-fledged epiphanies at the climax. But I can't let the "villains" come around too much. I need them in the next book!

Moderator: How do you get each novel the same length?

Dandi: It gets easier, more natural, the more I write. But I write long. Often my first draft ends up twice as long as it should be. So I cut. We all know that inside every fat book lies a skinny book waiting to get out. Keep chapters short, fairly uniform in length. Then you'll have an idea where you are lengthwise.

Cimarron Slim: Have you ever taken a character from childhood to adulthood in a series?

Dandi: Not in a series book, no. That would be fun, but the readers don't age. Their interest level stays the same. So I fear they'd lose interest by the end of the series.

Granny Janny: How far into a series is it feasible to introduce new main characters (i.e. friend, grandparent, cousin, etc.)?

Dandi: Great question, Granny! It's tough to introduce new MAIN characters after Book 1. That is, if they're keepers. See, you want to have a family of your characters who appear in every novel. What you can do, though, and should, for interest, is bring in great characters for one book, but don't bring them back in the next.

Moderator: For you, Dandi, what's the hardest part of writing series fiction?

Dandi: The consuming pace of bringing out a book every 3 months or so, while I keep writing single titles and having a family life! Technically though, another difficulty is catching up the reader. The temptation is to repeat too much info in a series, to feel we have to fill in the reader on everything that's happened to date. For example, you want to describe your characters, but you don't want to repeat the same descriptions every book. In Winnie the Horse Gentler, Catman Coolidge is a throwback to the 60's--long hair, granny glasses, freaky clothes, and hip language. In one book, I describe him as above; in the next I might have Winnie say that he looks like the protesters in the Vietnam chapter of her history book.

Moderator: Talk about characters in a series. Any differences from characters in stand-alone novels?

Dandi: There are some differences. You need a strong cast of characters to carry you through 12 books! I try to pick a main character who's thoroughly complex and has some quality I can play around with. Molly in Cinnamon Lake Mysteries knew all about nature; Dirt knew bugs. Winnie is great with horses, not so great with people. And she has a photographic memory. I do a more thorough job of profiling secondary characters, creating real lives for them, siblings, pets, etc., in a series. Give all the characters distinctives--expressions only they will use, speech patterns, quirks. You need to be multicultural, so use diverse family and economic structures. Give yourself room to expand.

Moderator: How do you keep from getting things mixed-up, like where the school is or what the little brother's name is, etc.?

Dandi: I've learned to keep a series bible. Took me 2 series to figure it out--duh. Now I keep a 3-ring binder with sections on each character and his family, details like pets, names, occupations of parents, siblings, ages. I have sections for minor characters, one for places, describing school, home, classes, schedules. Some publishers create a bible for you. My Tyndale House editor is amazing! If I miss something, she catches it. But if we both miss, a smart reader will be out there to let us know!

ShirleyAnne: Throughout a series of 10-12 books, the Main Character remains exactly the same age?

Dandi: Not necessarily. Sometimes they stay the same age. But they can also age...slowly. You wouldn't want to get more than a year or two older, or your reading audience would be off.

SaraJ: Have most of your series been for Christian publishers like Tyndale?

Dandi: I did a lot of work for Disney, Hanna Barbera, and Warner Brothers early on. But you're right--I do like the Christian publishers, especially ones like Tyndale and Tommy Nelson, who get the books into all the retail stores.

ShirleyAnne: Do you get letters from the readers? Are these forwarded to you? Have they been, sometimes, helpful?

Dandi: Good question! I meant to give letters from readers as one of the big pluses about writing a series. My favorite part of writing is getting a letter from a reader, and I get quite a few, especially from readers of the series. I've had kids write me with ideas or names of their horses, and I've used some of their horse names, too!

Moderator: Is there a best age group for series fiction, one more likely to find a publisher?

Dandi: I probably should say there's not a best age group. Things change so fast! But right now I see a big hole in younger series. Those 80 or 100-page novels for kids ages 6-10, long chapter books, with regular print. We all seem to gravitate to middle-grade fiction. Very few tackle the younger age group. Seems the most open right now.

Moderator: Is it better to write your series in first person or third person? Does it depend on the kind of series?

Dandi: It's always been a mystery to me why one novel works better in first, another in third. I've written series both ways. My mysteries were third. Winnie and Horsefeathers! were both first person. All were single point of view. That's the crucial element, showing the story through one character's head, whether first or third person. When I directed Today's Girls.Com series, we had different authors writing from each of the 6 main girls' point of view. I usually try a chapter both ways and see what works.

Moderator: How many books make a series, and when is it decided, and who decides? Is your contract for one book or for ????

Dandi: This varies from publisher to publisher. I sell a lot of 4-book contracts, mainly for board books or picture books, like my I'm Not Afraid series. We're breaking with 4 books. If they do well, we'll do 4 more. With longer fiction, the contract may only be for 2 books, then a book at a time. I agreed to do 12 books of Winnie the Horse Gentler, but the contract is for 6 books, so we can renegotiate after 6.

Moderator: After selling so many series, can you tell us anything to beware of in contracts for series fiction?

Dandi: Yes! Try not to make royalties dependent on the sale of all the books. Try to get each book considered separately, so you can begin to collect your royalties as soon as Book 1 earns out (and you deserve the $.) Some publishers want to wait until all the books have earned back their advances before letting you have royalties on the earlier books. Make sense? You'll probably need a lawyer or agent if you feel you might have movie or some kind of tie-in potential.

SaraJ: What does it mean: "as Book 1 earns out"?

Dandi: Let me try to explain, Sara. When you sign a contract for a book, you're usually paid some money, called an advance. Now, that "advance" is against what they suppose the book will earn later. Your real pay is say, 10 percent of whatever your book sells in the store. That percentage is your "royalty." The advance is upfront money, but you have to earn it out by having your book sell enough. You don't see any more money on that book until your 10% equals the advance you were paid. Then you're "even Stephen." And you should get new royalties, 10% on all sold. But if your publisher has "tied" all the books together, you won't get any more until each book has earned back that advance.

ShirleyAnne: I'm assuming you have to have sold some single titles before a publisher will think of having an author do a series, right?

Dandi: It helps, ShirleyAnne. They want to be sure you can produce that much. But it doesn't always happen that way. Someone can walk into a publishing house and wow them with an idea so great, they'll gamble on it. Sometimes they lose. The author doesn't produce, and the publisher has to hire other authors to make the idea work.

Valentine: Is 10% a standard amount for royalties or does it vary?

Dandi: Yes to both. 10% is pretty standard, with "escalating royalties." In other words, if you sell, say, 10,000, you may get 12%. Sell 50,000, and you go to 14%. Some publishers go higher, to 15%. And some lower. And with picture books, author and illustrator may have to split that 10%!

Moderator: We've talked mostly about middle grade and teen novels. What about board book series? What are board books, and what types of topics do they cover?

Dandi: Board books are those sturdy, colorful books your kids couldn't tear up. They're usually for ages 0-3 or 2-5. Some cover concepts--colors, shapes, numbers, etc. All are tied into a little child's life--sleep, surroundings, family, holidays. In I'm Not Afraid, I address the 4 major fears of preschoolers by using animals from Bible stories. Lots of board books rhyme or have a tactile component.

Moderator: How can you land a board book series with so many concepts already covered many times?

Dandi: I love that challenge! You need that hook again! Something a bit different. For example, I have a new series coming out called The Imagination Line. For the counting book, it's Cloud Counting. The clouds take on shapes that can be counted, and the text rhymes. Each back page has a "surprise," something the child does or feels.

Moderator: How does an author get a contract for that?

Dandi: Prayer! AND, pitch it! Again, use your hook. Write a proposal. Include markets, audience, why yours is different. Write one or two texts, suggest 2 others and promise more later. Go to conferences! Meet editors so you can pitch face-to-face! Can't hurt.

Moderator: What if there is a series you love--can you write one (or a few) novels in someone else's series?

Dandi: Sometimes you can. (Not mine though!) If there are a gazillion novels in the series, chances are it's not one author. I was asked to write #63 and #69 for Goosebumps! and for Little Sisters Babysitter books. If there's a long series you've read and loved, write that publisher and ask to "try out." Sometimes they'll send you an outline and ask you to write a couple of chapters as if it were an assignment. There are other series, especially nonfiction, where you might fit. Chelsea House has series based on topics--crime, punishment, trials, etc.

Moderator: How important is the setting in writing a series?

Dandi: Crucial! Your whole world depends on it. It can't be average, although it can be anywhere. Your setting has to take on life, to set off your world and make a place the reader yearns to escape to. Give us the smells, the senses of the place. Fill it with little details and quirky facts that make it unique. Set your series somewhere you love and can describe in infinite ways.

Moderator: To sell a series, is one state better than another?

Dandi: I don't think so. I remember a few years ago when editors said they had too many NYC books. Now it seems there are bunches of books set in the South. I don't think it matters. In fact, in Horsefeathers!, I named towns and detailed the countryside...all without ever mentioning which state I was in. It was funny because readers wrote to me that they knew it was set in their state--from New Mexico to Wyoming, etc.

Moderator: These next two viewer questions go together...

Mary Lois: How about historical fiction in series form? I know that American Girl does this. How about other publishers?

SaraJ: Can you have the same kind of series as for adults? Like historical, science-fiction, fantasy, mystery?

Dandi: Great questions, guys! You can have series in any genre, just like for adults. Thanks for mentioning American Girls, Mary Lois! I meant to! There's a series called Dear Mr. President that's similar. Winslow and Chelsea House do that kind of thing. Another publisher, Ferguson, has nonfiction series on topics, like problem-solving, etc.

Moderator: What size "cast of characters" works best for a series?

Dandi: It's tricky. I like 4 central characters, personally--one main character. With 3 right-hand characters, plots can feature one, then the other. More than 4 and it's hard for me to account for everyone in each novel. I end up shipping one character off to Granny's house or something. There is a danger in getting too many characters and keeping each new one until your world is overpopulated! You have to make yourself throw away some characters, even though you love them to death!

Moderator: Should a series ideally be written all from one viewpoint, like Nancy Drew?

Dandi: Most of the time, that's the way to go to sell your series. Unless you envision involving other writers and switching main characters with each book, the way we did with Today's Girls.Com. I think the reader invests herself in your main character and feels strange when that character doesn't "star." But a lot of successful series contradict me--so the field is open to whatever you want to do, if you do it well.

Moderator: What series are you working on now? Can you give us a sneak preview?

Dandi: Thanks for asking! Right now I'm writing Winnie the Horse Gentler novels. She's a girl who's great with horses, a teen horse whisperer--but not so great with other teens. It's a good set-up, with Winnie getting a new problem horse each book, and training a different kind of horse, going through her own problems, too. Another series I'm working on is the picture book series, I'm Not Afraid. It's so much fun! In No, No Noah, a monkey is afraid to go on the ark (fear of separation): He tells Noah: "Can't you see it's way too scary? Is this whole trip necessary?

Moderator: I love that!

Dandi: Thanks! There's also a donkey who's afraid to take Mary because he'll just get lost. And a lion in Daniel's den who's afraid of a bully. I'll stop. Shouldn't ask an author what she's working on!

ShirleyAnne: Are you a "horse person" and/or how did you do research for this, or is it personal knowledge?

Dandi: Yes to all the above, ShirleyAnne! I was raised riding bareback. We always had horses, and I hated the way people "broke" horses. So that part's in me. We do have a couple of horses now, although I went without for years. But I read everything I can on horses and problems, and there's a lot out there I didn't know!

Mary Lois: When do the new series debut? I'd love to read them!

Dandi: Ooh--I love you, Mary Lois! Winnie breaks next month--in stores by April, for sure. Same goes for I'm Not Afraid series. Plus, the Imagination Line and one for younger kids called First Things First come out in July. I have a picture book with Harper Collins coming out this summer--Off to Bethlehem! And one coming out the end of the year with Dutton, Are We There Yet?

Moderator: I'm breathless just imagining all this! Dandi, is there any difference in the way you promote a series from the ways a stand-alone book might be promoted?

Dandi: More promotion! Lasts longer! And it seems I'm being sent more places to promote. I guess it's a bigger risk. For the Winnie books, the publicist sent out horse buckets filled with bandannas and sugar cubes, plus the galleys to Wild Thing!

lilacmom: How do you pitch a series to an editor at a conference?

Dandi: Hey, lilacmom--you still need to write the proposal and have the manuscripts. But that face-to-face with an editor makes him or her want to like your stuff. I'd suggest making an appointment, rather than jockeying for position after a talk. Plan ahead and send the proposal a month before the conference. Then ask to talk with that editor about it while you're there. Sold my first series that way (100 years ago...).

Moderator: You've mentioned needing a "hook" several times. Give examples of the "hook" you need to snag an editor.

Dandi: Okay, forgive me for writing long if I do here. But this is the key. And I think it might help to see actual "hooks" I had that sold series to publishers. "Helping your child overcome common fears just got easier!" That was the hook for I'm Not Afraid series. I went on to explain that the stories tackled the 4 leading fears of preschoolers in a unique way.

"Winnie Willis is great with horse, not so great with people. But as she helps her problem horses through their difficulties, she'll discover how to help her own relationships." The hook was that I had something for everybody: I had Catman Coolidge, who loves cats; Barker, who's the dog man; and Lizzy, Winnie's sister, who loves bugs and lizards. Something for every animal-loving reader!

The hook in Cinnamon Lake Mysteries was that the mysteries would be solved when the kids pieced together something in nature. Readers would learn all kinds of trivia and nature facts.

The Puzzle Club mysteries featured real detectives, who happened to be children. Clues and plots were worthy of Sam Spade--secret codes and mistaken identities.

The Imagination Line of board books will teach basic concepts, but with a twist. The big difference is that each book will spark imagination. In Cloud Counting, a child sees clouds shift into shapes that can be counted. And so on.

ShirleyAnne: Question about Winnie in the horse series: I take it each horse helps her overcome some personal problem, but that she's still got plenty of problems left for the rest of the books?

Dandi: Cute! Yep, that girl is loaded with problems. But other characters help. Sometimes their problems are bigger, and hers is internal. In the second book, Eager Star, it's the boy owner who shows up with the chip on his shoulder and father who's unreasonable and demanding. She helps him and his horse.

Moderator: Do you have an agent? If so, does he/she sell the series idea for you, as well as negotiating contract terms?

Dandi: I do have an agent. She's wonderful--one of the few good agent stories. We've been together for about 12 years! She does ALL the negotiating. But I still like to schmooze editors and pitch ideas, even though she does it if I ask her to.

Moderator: What are some things to beware of when writing a series?

Dandi: First, know that you're getting into a hectic pace! You'll finish one book, relax for 2 seconds, and feel that pressure to begin again. Beware of stereotypes. Don't let the bad guys be all bad, for example, or always rich and only children. Build in the promise of future conflicts. Don't let the main character become too mature or perfect. Many main characters are too average to make it through 12 books. Give her or him great complexity, two sides, rounded together. Beware of stereotyping parents or making them generic and interchangeable. Make them interesting (and keep them out of the way most of the time). Watch out for those show-stealing minor characters.

Moderator: Dandi, a couple years ago I attended a workshop at Chautauqua that you taught about being a "24 Hour a Day Writer," which I'm sure is part of what makes you so prolific. Can you share a bit about what that means with our audience?

Dandi: It means no sleep! Not really. If we're writers, though, it's part of who we are 24 hours a day. Most of us can make more time to write if we have a mind-set for it. For example, instead of just watching TV (your family time, right?), do 2 things at once. Go through your research material for that book. Read marketing material and take notes. When you drive, have a little tape player to talk into for notes and ideas. Go on your walk, but take a tape player with you and talk in dialogue or a tough scene. Writing is a priority. For me, it comes after God and family (those are higher!). So I don't want to raid my family's time for my writing time. But I can raid my own time, steal time from myself. I can get up earlier and write. I can drop a hobby if I need to.

Valentine: Do you write constantly or do you take breaks occasionally?

Dandi: I write a lot. I do eat though. I don't take many breaks, as in days off, unless it's family vacation and they make me. And even then, I'm writing in my head--don't tell! I do most "fresh" writing in the morning, doing that first draft. Afternoons are better for rewriting.

ShirleyAnne: How many hours a day, on average, do you write or research, or do "writing type work?"

Dandi: ShirleyAnne, I hate to even say. I sit at the computer for at least 9 hours, often more. And I go over notes or thumb through books, etc. most evenings. But hey--I'm a really fun person still. Honest!

Moderator: Yes, she is!!! I'm really sorry to have to stop now, but we're out of time. Dandi, I can't thank you enough for coming tonight and sharing your writing and publishing expertise with us. I know that you have inspired many of us to "think series" now. Thanks again!

Dandi: Thanks for asking me! What fun! A Valentine's interview...in my bathrobe! Have a nice night, all. Thanks for coming! And write like crazy!

Moderator: Do come back in two weeks on February 28 when Kelly McClymer will be discussing "A Writer's Web: Website Design for Authors." What should go on an author's website? What shouldn't? How easy is one to create and maintain? How much should it cost to have someone else design and maintain a site? Where can I find all those neat resources and graphics that I see on other author pages? For the answers to these and other questions, join us in two weeks! And now, good night, everyone!

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