Jan is Jan Fields, moderator of this interview/workshop with Nadia Cornier, and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site. Green shows names or usernames of people and the questions they asked Nadia.

Jan: WELCOME to GUEST SPEAKER CHAT with Agent Nadia Cornier. I'm your host, moderator, and resident pontificator -- Jan Fields. I'm looking forward to learning a lot about how to create a compelling submission that can catch an agent's eye. Welcome Nadia and thanks for joining us tonight! I'm so glad you made it, and I hope your cold gets better soon.

Nadia: Thank you! It's my pleasure (and thanks about the cold). :)

Jan: But on the up side, if you lapse into intelligibility, we'll assume it's illness related.

Nadia: the old "I've got a head cold" routine... I use it often and use it well.

Jan: We gotta use what we got. So, tell me...other than phlegm...what's the coolest thing you've done lately?

Nadia: Well, last week I got to take a tour of DC comics... and this week I'll be talking to people from Marvel comics. Graphic novels and comics are another form of "literature" that are starting to hit big on shelves nowadays, so I'm able to keep up with learning new things and hype up my geek quotient.

Jan: Okay, before I start feeding you audience questions... I want to ask you flat out...if you had to tell folks one absolutely essential tip for submissions -- the ultimate Firebrand tip -- what would it be?

Nadia: Don't submit blindly. I (and every other agent I know) can tell when we receive a mass-query... and it's such a put off. I love queries written especially for me and you'd be shocked, but I've spent some time over drinks talking to other agents to see what projects they are looking at, we're a small group, we all know one another, it's very very sad. So, if you're interested in submitting to me, knowing what would make a query shine for me (and not another agent) will be the key to getting (and keeping) my interest.

Jan: I know personalized queries is a biggie for a lot of agents -- I saw an agent speaking on that at a blog recently.

Nadia: Excellent. I LOVE high concept questions. Ok, here's my take on what "high concept" is. It's basically the hook that I can use to describe your project to the editor, quickly, in a way that they can understand.

Nadia: Mean Girls? It's Clueless with bite. That sort of thing... the editor then uses the same pitch to tell sales & marketing, then S&M use it to sell the books to book buyers. If your book isn't high concept, it's probably "quiet" and unfortunately "quiet" often means fewer sales (in the ears of the publishing world)

Nadia: Can a serious book, or issue-oriented book be high concept? Sure! Scott Westerfield does issue books with really high concepts... and does them really well. But, it's how you position your own work. And for anyone in sales (and aren't we all always in sales?) - that's an important thing to know about your own project.

Jan: Okay, I actually have a question about high concept books. How dated could you're short pitch be? For example, My wip is a kind of zombie apocolypse...with monsters instead of zombies. I described it to someone as Mad Max in a skirt, with monsters. Is Mad Max too dated? I mean, I think of Mad Max as a kind of cultural icon, but it's really old.

Nadia: Well, think of it this way... there is a sweet spot. The majority of editors are between the ages of 25-45. So, the majority of them will have seen Mad Max...So they will understand the reference. But, if it's too far off (i.e. they haven't seen it in a long time or don't understand the reference really well... damn 25 yos) then they might misinterpret your log line... and all that work will go to waste. I think keep it within five years whenever possible.

Jan: Thanks...back to the rampagers at the gates...

Nadia: Ohhhh... Nice question. The worst query I ever received was about fourteen pages long. It was a long sprawling mess... and ... well, was painful to read.

Nadia: But, OH! I have an idea... jan, would you mind if I cut & Paste a "bad query" sample (we wrote one in the office, so it isn't an author's.) but it illustrates the "bad query" things that we see a lot, and I can talk about why it is horrible. I'll try and see how that works... let's see:

Nadia: I read about you online (Verla Kay) and you seemed like you know what you want. And I know what I want, which is for you to read my new young adult novel, The Girl With The Pearl Necklace. (blah blah blah about the story) This is a book about love, hope and destiny (and street magicians).

Nadia: There are over 1200 streetr magicians performing in the United States today, there were even more in England back when Chardonney was around. I feel that I am immensely suitable to be the author of this book because I once fell in love with street musicians and I now raise animals. An editor at Delacorte read this at last year's SCBWI and is interested in acquiring it although I'm not sure at what point in the process we are at. I'd like to work with an experienced agent who can make this book a bestseller. Thank you, Fake Author Name

Nadia: Ok, so I cut out the part about the plot (which was ridiculous) but, the start and the finish are the most important parts... most agents realize that an author probably won't be able to sum up their own work in just a paragraph, so we give a little leeway on that part. but... ok, our "fake" query... basically talks about the book in "big word" terms (and again later) What is a book about hope? Love? ... I mean, isn't every book like this? I need specific information about the book! I want to know the word count (estimate it) I want to know what genre it is in, what other readers who enjoy this book would like. (people who enjoyed reading X will enjoy reading this book) but the examples have to be prudent and ... not using Harry Potter, or any other major, major book.

Nadia: Also, we assume if you are writing to us, you want an agent. So you don't have to say that. You also don't have to talk about us making you into a best seller... it's like talking about kids on a first date. Let your work speak for itself in a query, keep it short and business like...r make it easy for us to see what it is we are looking for (is this a book that would fit on my list right now?) and just for a frame of reference, I sent this query to an agent friend of mine, and he requested it (and yelled that he'd get revenge when I revealed myself) so... even a HORRIBLE query can still get a request, so don't worry too much... if a query doesn't work the first time, feel free to tweak it until you get a good response and then send that one.

Jan: He requested it? What a nice guy.

Nadia: Haha. he saw that "delacorte" was interested. :) Agents are very money oriented sometimes. :0

Jan: But didn't that seem suspicious in light of the almost unintelligble query

Nadia: ... he did respond that the idea sounded "interesting"... but again, I've received amazing queries that were attached to horrible manuscripts and vice versa. So it's really about the information we want to glean from the query not the query itself. (but he did remember the author name six months later which goes to show that a bad query is very memorable.)

Nadia: Sure... high concept: Wicked Lovely, A Great and Terrible Beauty, Looking for Alaska "quiet" -- hm... basically all the books that were on the National Book Award list this year. Basically quiet is another way of saying, Not overly commercial. Has literary merit, but might not end up being a commercial best seller (and award winning best seller, perhaps...)

Nadia: I'm not interested unless it is within the same market that you're currently writing for. Writing a literary novel? and you wrote for the New Yorker? Heck ya... I want to know. Wrote an op/ed for Glamour magazine? that's not going to help me sell your middle grade fiction. So -- if it seems prudent to mention, go for it. If you aren't sure, go for it. it doesn't hurt.

Nadia: ... Wow, ok, the problem is... it depends on the day. I've gotten really cute queries and if I'm in the right frame of mind I LOVE them. If I've just read through 600 emails (which happens), I've probably seen a few "cute" queries, and if it wasn't the first one... I might not be as receptive. So... I tend to say go for professional, let your personality shine through... but stick with professional. You're less likely to get caught in a "bad day" rejection that way (although there is no way to avoid those completely).

Nadia: Richard, if your self-published book has sold so many copies that you can't even believe it... then there is potential. But it makes news whenever a self-published book is bought up by a publisher. That means it is rare. Generally, if it's self published (or even uploaded onto your blog in pieces) it's still "published" -- be careful of how you exercise your rights.... and if you've self-published something, write something else...work those chops and perhaps they'll come after your old material to republish at a future date.

Nadia: I'd like to know... if they have reprinted your stories (are these books? Stories are a different animal) or licensed the rights to reprint them in the states? I'd want to know why you want to make the move, what type of career you want, etc...I have no problem working with foreign authors (hm.... that sounds nice), but communication is always a bit tougher... not impossible... so, I'd want to know the same things I'd want to know with any other client. Most agents don't mind working with foreign clients, but you still have to be something they just can't pass up. (That said, if you are a best seller in your home country - you have a better shot.)

Nadia: I suggest ALWAYS sending multiple queries (unless you're absolutely dying for ONE agent and one agent only -- and don't mind waiting) You should always have options.

Jan: But each query should be written specifically for each agent -- right? Not form queries, one size fits all.

Nadia: Correct!

Nadia: Yup. MG -- is started to become a crowded market (as much as YA), so it becomes more and more important to have a definable concept. :)

Nadia: Every agent has different guidelines... So, you want to check their website. Me personally -- I like a page that tells me the basics about project (there is a form on our website www.firebrandliterary.com).

Nadia: Like the blurb on the back of the book. :)

Nadia: I would wait until you have interest from the agent to divulge because if you've queried some publishers already, your agent might not be able to resubmit there.

Nadia: Then you shouldn't be querying. :) Wait until the book is finished and then you will know the word count. (That sounds obnoxious, but it's good advice) If you're already published, you can submit on proposal. and then you can estimate based on general novel guidelines (60-70k for novels for teens).

Nadia: I sent a project out to multiple editors usually -- very seldom do we do exclusive submissions... but when we multiply submit we send between six and ten editors, normally. If we want to get some early feedback, we'll send it to three editors and then submit to more after we've received some feedback. So we can gauge reactions and incorporate that feedback before sending it everywhere.

Nadia: Form rejections. oy. Ok, here is my take on form rejections (and we use one) (although!) I really like our form rejection. My clients wrote it. I wrote one that i thought was nice and kinda not mean... and they tore it apart and said that it was too nice. And they rewrote it and what I have now is a respectful rejection letter. It apologizing for being a form and for the lack of personal detail (although sometimes we add a personal touch anyway) and it gives the reasons we may be passing. The reason we use rejection letters are two fold:
1) 600 queries is a LOT of queries to go through.
2) personal rejections invite responses.
Ok, so when you get responses to rejections (after you've already done 600 of them) you don't remember why you rejected them to begin with so you have to go and reread the query and rethink the whole thing in order to respond. That's tiring and means repeating work you've already finished...So, it's a complex time issue... it's time AND energy.

Nadia: What do I think could be a cure for this? Well, I think that the short story market is under appreciated. There used to be a much stronger SS market that acted as a pre-qualifier for publication (still does for SF/F in some cases) but my personal answer to this problem (yes, I see it as a problem too) is that people are not getting enough feedback - professional level - before they submit. So, I've been working very hard with two friends, one an author and one is a programmer to create a website that is half MySpace-esque and half critique group-centric for writers. Where writers can go, create pages, upload a set amount of pages that others can critique ... and the top ranked writers will be seen by agents and editors. It's half competition, half great feedback, etc... and that was my answer to it. (That'll go live in Spring 2008, btw ...)

Jan: Hey, sounds like an interesting project.

Nadia: It's taken almost a year just to develop so far, but we're kinda in love with it, but I think the point is, we see the same problem that writers see... and people in the industry are interested in finding a solution more than just the form rejection letter.

Jan: Well, I know folks are desperate for good critique feedback just from emails I get of people looking for groups.

Nadia: Yay! Good, hopefully I'll call and buy you for some beta testers then. :)

Jan: I can come up with a few thousand for you.

Nadia: Sweet.

Nadia: 99% of the time. If not, I make a point of doing a lot of research before submitting to an editor. But generally we go, have lunch, drinks, coffee (I like food-centric meetings)... talk on the phone (which is a poor second). We talk about work, about our interests (both in reading and outside of). And I learn about what projects they've enjoyed working on and why. That usually gives me a good basis for who to send a project to. Plus...when you work in the industry and live in NY... you see these people ALL THE TIME. You can't get away from them. My birthday was last week, and I had four editors, and three agents at my dinner party. And one hedge fund manager who felt REALLY left out. So, we know one another.

Jan: Oh...happy last week birthday!

Nadia: Thank you! :)

Nadia: By sheer ego and ignorance. I was working with authors doing freelance marketing and publicity. And I was a writer, submitting work to agents. so, I started working with an agency I respect (and who had rejected me -- boo hiss -- by form letter -- twice!) doing marketing for their clients. I liked what I was seeing... and so I stuck around to watch and learn. They ate lunch, read, talked on the phone. And I was like, Heck, I can do this job! I eat! I read! I talk on the phone! It was like High School, and I told the owner of the agency that, and she laughed in my face. And then put me to work. I've been working ever since.

Nadia: Assume that you will make the advance. The advance is the publishers best guess as to how much royalties you'll make the first year of sales. (That's the really simplified explanation of how they figure an advance.) And so... expect you'll earn at least that much. From there, if you publish more books, the sale of your former books will probably bump up with every new release. So it depends on your writing schedule, what format you're published in and what you're writing and your popularity, so there is no really good algorithm for figuring it out beyond "the advance."

Nadia: Promotion. I talk a lot about promotion... go for the website first. Something simple so people can find you -- it's a no brainer. Then if you're writing children's books, work on setting up school visits. Everything else is either already being done by the publisher or is completely useless. Nine year olds won't go reading reviews on the web (for the most part) so the best thing you can do is get in front of them. But since that's not really creative... (sigh) I would also do some fun stuff on myspace. Find out where kids are hanging out and figure out a way of getting your book to "hang out with them" I'm a big fan of social networking sites. I also have worked with my authors to find magazines that cater to the same audience as the book (what magazine would like this high concept?) and talked about doing excerpts or content-deals with them. Anyway you can get in front of readers is a good thing. but the best thing you can do to promote a first book is to write a kick a$$ second book. (I used dollar signs so I wouldn't damage anyone's sensibilities)

Jan: We are quite delicate here. Dainty even. Ask anyone.

Nadia: I'm glad I thought of the dollar signs then.

Nadia: Depends (again) on the magazine. If it has something to do with the same market... I'll make my eyebrows waggle before I read the query. But, it's about the writing and the material, not about the credits. Book publishing makes me take notice. Sometimes in a bad way. If there was a huge gap in time between books... I wonder why. A query is similar to a resume that way... not only what you're saying that is important, but what you aren't saying.

Jan: If someone has worked with packagers, does that count like a regular book or make you feel more magazine/niffish about it.

Nadia: packagers are good... I'd want to know that. Shows you know how to work collaboratively and how to take edit/revisions notes. We like our authors to be able to do those things. So, I take those. I consider that closer to a "regular book."

Jan: Do packagers ever contact you looking for authors, 'cause I know they did with my ex-agent and he sent them to me. But I wondered if that happened to all agents.

Nadia: yeah...they reach out to us and ask if any of our authors are interested. And then we send samples of the interested authors. But so many of my clients are already busy with their own projects. But its great for people who have a lot of VOICE but no real plots in their stories (my writing has always been like this). (c'est dommage) Hence why I got so many form rejections before I realized it was cooler to sell books. (and less work) but there are a lot of people who can't really plot out a novel as well as a packager - that has a team of editors who plot novels ALL day.

Nadia: www.publishersmarketplace.com lists a lot of recent sales. If an agent has sold projects or works with an established agency that has sold projects -- to legitimate houses. Then... you've probably got a good agent. Now... will they be a good agent for you? Who knows. But they are probably not going to rob you blind. A legitimate agent is too busy signing and selling books to pull off scams... if the person isn't selling books they are making money somehow...

Jan: What do you think are the most important things in a good agent/author "fit" -- assuming that the writer can write and the agent is skilled and legitimate.

Nadia: I guess, it depends on what you want out of your agent-author relationship and how good you are at communicating that. Some of my clients call me or IM me every single day. I'm not kidding. Some I don't hear from for months at a time, and I'm OK with both. Some want a mentor, some need to be pushed, some need someone who will support their decisions. But it's important to communicate with your agent, because (hopefully) she has other clients... and if youa ren't communicating what you need. You can't hold her accountable for not giving it to you.

Jan: So, are you a "bounce ideas off" type agent (for your present clients) or do you pretty much want to wait until a project is written?

Nadia: I tend to be a bounce-ideas-type of agent and tend to be hands on. But that might be because I've been signing fewer and fewer clients and doing more and more work prior to sending manuscripts out the door. And the advances we've received get higher... so, I feel like the work is worth it... gives my clients more options and raises their profiles as writers (and mine as their agent)

Nadia: One. At least. Adam Selzer is a client of mine -- and he writes three books a year. No sweat. He has it down to a science. I have another client who can't finish a book in less than two years. But she writes AMAZING books, so I grudgingly wait to read her new book.

Nadia: lol:: Yeah. I have an English degree - but I was agenting before I finished. I'm starting law school in the fall... and will be agenting during and after that. So... ::shrug:: whatever it is worth.

Jan: Hey, great! Congratz...hard hard work there.

Nadia: It's applicable work, so I'll find it interesting. :) There is a lot of contract and negotiations that you learn about in agenting -- and it can only help to get even better at those skills.

Nadia: I may be prejudiced... I say agents but only because agents can't buy your project and if they reject you, there are plenty more. A publisher won't accept resubmissions (usually) even if you later get an agent. But I've heard of successes from both camps.

Nadia: A packager is a company that comes up with ideas for books and hires writers for a flat fee or for a smaller amount to write their ideas and then sell the "package" to publishers. It's based on the hollywood model of packaging a movie script with a director, producer, star... coming up with the full package that makes sense for the publisher to buy (in this case an amazing idea, an amazing writing talent and an editor - provided by the packager). And the publisher pays a little more for the priviledge of not having to do all the work themselves. At least in theory. Famous packaged projects: goosebumps, babysitters club, nancy drew, gossip girls, sisterhood of the traveling pants, etc.

Nadia: Hm. Like a big sister thing? I don't know, I don't think it's like that. Because the author, in reality, is employing the agent. So... to be perfectly clear, you have as much input and authority in the relationship as anyone... and so the mentor/mentee idea isn't necessarily there unless you make it be there, or want it to be there. So, there are some clients that I've signed because I liked their voice... and I've spent a lot of time developing them. I sold two projects this week (deal dropping.. sigh) one was with an author I've worked with on SEVERAL ideas for over a year. A year is a long time, several ideas is a LOT of investment -- for both of us. Bbut, it works out... so, if that's what you mean, Sure. But, usually I like to think of it as a partnership. :)

Jan: Congratz on the deals this week -- very cool. Okay, since we introduced the element of employing...and some of our audience is just starting out...would you explain how you get paid for your services?

Nadia: Oh. We get paid when the author gets paid. We make 15% of whatever the author makes on domestic book deals and 20% for subrights (film, ancillary, foreign, etc). So when all of you get 100k offers for your book. We'll take 15k When we sell the movie rights for a million. we'll take 200k and split it equally with a film agent. (if you make nothing, we make nothing... and we are all sad)

Jan: And we hate agents to be sad, but one thing I find interesting is that agents are much like authors: they do a lot of work with not absolute assurance of pay.

Nadia: True. But let's go back... EGO and Ignorance. We believe that we'll sell everything and we're absolutely ignorant to the fact that the statistics are against us. We have to be, to a certain extent, sure that we love a book or we wouldn't bother putting up with the rest of it (the rejection from editors, the work, the gruelling heart ache).

Jan: Okay...I wanted to go through a couple things that I've seen different agents say they like in a query but have heard other agents say they hate in a query. Just a kind of ... word association test to see where you stand on the stuff but I'm endlessly curious about this kind of thing.

Nadia: Ok

Jan: Market comparison -- how is your book similar and different from what's in print?

Nadia: Neutral -- depends on the book you pick, but don't make your entire query about this... it's not THAT important.

Jan: Promotional plans -- ways you intend to promote yourself, or ways your believe you have platform.

Nadia: HATE -- unless you write non-fiction. If you have something important to say, throw that (promo stuff) in the bottom of the cover letter when youmail the MS -- not in the query. Or better yet, save for the convo when you're offered representation.

Jan: Automatically sending pages from the manuscript with the query...assuming all agents want to see pages.

Nadia: Don't care (we ask for pages) - but when I didn't ask for pages Tina Ferraro (one of my clients) sent pages... I would've rejected her query, she sent a couple of her first pages, and I liked the voice. We've worked on four books together now.

Jan: What kinds of things do you PERSONALLY represent...and what would you totally not want to see?

Nadia: Well... we try not to repeat clients. So, we don't do 100 vampire novels or 100 witch novels, that sort of thing. So, if I already represent a book with your high concept, I'd probably pass for that reason. I like reading girl-centric novels. Everything from chick lit to girl-centric historical fantasy. I absolutely do not get parodies. I don't know why... I don't get them at all. so, I won't understand it. (Ted, who I work with, might). I don't do terrorist stories, any kind. And I usually stay away from any story with rape. Just because it freaks me out.

Nadia: um, for a YA author. From zero to a hundredK.

Jan: 0? For something sold? How horrible would that be.

Nadia: Some places don't provide advances. So... eventually they'll get all the money through royalties. but... there ya go.

Jan: That's why we write for art :-)

Nadia: haha. ....::cough::.... Please don't say that in my presence.

Jan: Okay...that's wrapping it up for tonight. I so want to thank Nadia for chatting with us in her extreme cold ills...poor little lamb.

Nadia: Thanks for having me :) This was a lot of fun.

Jan: The audience is pouring in thanks too. And do let us know when your crit-ish site goes live.

Nadia: THANKS! I definitely will!