Jan is Jan Fields, moderator of this interview/workshop, and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site. While red signals our guest speaker's responses. Green shows names or usernames of people and the questions they asked of our speaker.

Jan: Welcome to "Speaking in an Authentic Kid Voice" with Christine Kohler. Christine is going to help us avoid the dreaded "adult viewpoint" and really connect with your readers by capturing a believable voice.

Christine: Thank you, Jan, for inviting me to answer questions about how to write an authentic kid's voice. I love talking about the craft of writing. I'd like to open with a quote by former ICL instructor Elaine Marie Alphin, author of an Edgar-winning YA novel Counterfeit Son (Harcourt): "The voice of a book comes from the main character, not from the writer."

karenb: Do you think an authentic kid voice (for middle grade readers) would come across better in first person or third person?

Christine: Each story seems to beg to be told in first or third person. But you may have to write it one way, then the other, to find the voice. It may be the character's voice is easiest to find in first, but the story is better told in third. I recommend first interviewing your character. Of course his answers will be in first person. Then interview his best friend about your main character. The answers will be in third person. Then interview his worst enemy about the main character. You might even want to interview the worst enemy about what happened in the story. He certainly would give a different dimension and viewpoint. Although when you return to actually writing the story, I would tell it from a single point of view (POV), the main character's.

karenb: I've been trying to write a novel in the 1st person voice of an 11-year-old boy. Without having regular chats with boys this age, how do I make sure I'm keeping it real? I guess the more general question is: How do you stay true to the voice of a certain age kid that you don't have access to?

Christine: I read a post elsewhere on this board where Jan talked about the differences in how boys talk and act and feel as opposed to girls. (Yes, spare us the sexist lecture.) I recommend looking up that post [NOTE: TEXT OF THIS POST IS DIRECTLY UNDER THIS REMARK BY CHRISTINE]. In general, boys and men talk in shorter clipped sentences. No long speeches. They tend to display anger when frustrated and in a physical way. Notice how many male characters throw things at a crucial point of the plot. Even choice of words is different. I remember one editor telling me about a writer who had a boy character have a pajama party. "Boys don't have pj parties," this editor said. "They have sleep-overs. And boys don't plan them like girls. At the last minute they just ask their moms, 'Can we have a sleep-over?'" This editor was upset that the writer didn't know boys and it made her not trust the rest of the story because the characters weren't credible. So, get around some boys. Listen to how they talk; watch how they act. This is why I love Assign. #5 in the ICL course. I find that students who do not look for character flaws in Assign. #5 or write a story based on #5 character never seem to fully grasp characterization in fiction.

[BOY VOICE POST]: 1. Boys tend to be less introspective about feelings. They don't tend to think things like, "That really hurt my feelings" or "She's being insensitive" or "I should go and make sure we're okay because I think I might have hurt his feelings." Boys are more immediate and the main emotion they will recognize and react to is "mad." If they are frustrated by something, they'll say, "That makes me so mad." If they feel bad about an interaction with a friend, they'll think, "I wonder of Kyle is still mad at me." But they won't go on about it...no "I wonder if Kyle is still mad about the fat remark. I think I really hurt his feelings. I didn't mean it that way. I hate it when I hurt someone's feelings." <-- that kind of on-going introspection sounds girlie.

[BOY VOICE POST]:2. Boys tend to be more immediate in relationships. They don't wonder who Joe is doing with her girlfriend or where Pete ever thinks about the fun they used to have. They're more like, "I think I'll go over to Joe's and hang out. If his stupid girlfriend isn't there."

[BOY VOICE POST]:3. Boys tend to be action oriented where girls are more relationship oriented. Boys even tend to FORGET that Pete is mad at them if they think of this super cool thing they can do together. AND a lot of times, that's fine with Pete too.

[BOY VOICE POST]:4. Overall, boys use shorter sentences...they just do. The pacing of their dialogue is crisper and action oriented. They also label by extremes. A new glove isn't nice -- it's fantastic. Anyway, those are few things to keep in mind for boy narration.

karenb: What's your advice for speaking in an authentic kid voice?

Christine: Developing a Written Voice by Dona Hickey. (Prof. at University of Richmond.) Mountain View, CA: Mayfield Publishing Co., 1993. -- Voice is the sum effect of all the stylistic choices a writer makes to communicate not only information about a subject but also information about himself or herself to a particular audience. (Hickey, 1)

Christine: What I want you to go away with, if nothing else, is that voice is not just in dialogue. Write the narrative in your character's voice, include internal monologue (thoughts), if the story is in a close single POV. One caution, though, editors complain that novice writers muse too much in internal monologue.

Christine: When I give a workshop on voice, we do exercises using the following stylistic features used to transfer voice from the air to the page: (Hickey, 23)

1. Sentence patterns
2. Sentence length
3. Word choice
4. Word placement
5. Punctuation

Christine: Institute of Children’s Literature Talk About “Catching the Flavor of Your Characters’ Speech” by Barbara Benziger. (Ask for ICL’s TA SPEECH)

• Spell everything correctly; don’t even drop final g’s.
• Use contractions only when they are widely accepted.
• To show flavor, use regional expressions, or unusual sentence structure, or idiomatic grammar.
• Don’t overdo it. Don’t make your characters sound ridiculous.
• Foreign – ESL characters usually do not use contractions, and often invert the word order in their sentences. Asians tend to drop articles and have difficulty pronouncing r (pronounced as l instead.)
• Slang – Use as little as possible. Dates piece too fast.
• Past – sprinkle old-time expressions through dialogue [ck – Warning, make sure expression would have been used at that time period. The Oxford dictionary tells the origin of words and when they came into existence.]
• Future – Often characters in science fiction speak much like people from the past or foreign background. The implication is they are newly learning how to speak English.

Christine: Also, if you look on Lee & Low's website, they have gotten permission from authors to reprint articles and about three of them are on voice. Wendy McClure, editor for Albert Whitman, said, "When it comes to novels, you need to structure the beginning of the story so the voice comes through right away....The voice should bring the reader into the story even before any action has occurred."

karenb: great advice, I will definitely look up those resources.

Christine: Developing a Written Voice by Dona Hickey is a textbook. I found the first part of the book excellent, and then it was as if she needed to fill so many pages and the rest of the book seemed to not be as helpful. That's why when I did the workshop, I made up my own examples and exercises. I took the first theoretical info, and then followed through in practical application.

karenb: Just curious where/when you do your workshops on voice?

Christine: I just moved last year from San Antonio, TX to a town in West TX between Abilene and San Angelo. When I was in San Antonio I'd given talks (oh, okay, lectures) and workshops (more hands-on) for SCBWI, at B&N, universities. I am available to give workshops or speak at seminars for an honorarium and travel expenses.

mmmgood: Can you give advice on how to navigate consistency between "don't overdo," and keeping your character's voice spot-on? For instance, if I am going to be true-to-voice for a character patterned after several of my 4th-grade Sunday School boys, my dialogue would be absolutely swimming in "dude."

Christine: This may seem too vague now, but when read aloud, you'll know too much when you or someone else reads it. Too many "dudes" and it will get distracting and annoying. My poor students, I delete a lot of words -- such as adverbs, or tags other than said or asked, or exclamation marks -- in critiques and editing. But by the end of the course I get letters telling me they hear my voice in their head when they revise. Truthfully, a lot of what I cut in critiques is based on having an ear for cadence and rhythm. That's why I recommend reading you own work aloud.

Fancy: thanks for asking the "Dude" question, I keep wondering about that too. I didn't use a lot of slang as a kid, and I sometimes took some grief about it. I don't want my characters teased by the other kids! (lol)

Louisa: In to-day's reading market, which perspective are people looking for? Example: First person, second person, or third person.

Christine: I, personally, do not like the use of second person, not in NF or fiction. Second person speaks to the reader, who may- or may not agree with what was said.

Christine: First person can be very limiting. Third person can show a broader panoramic view of life around the main character. I have an article posted on my website www.christinekohlerbooks.com "Navel-gazer or Stargazer?" that is a free download. It talks about the difference between subjective and objective. (I originally wrote it at the request of a previous ICL webmaster.) So, it is more than just which person told in that can widen or close the psychic distance between the reader and main character. (I'm sorry, I'm getting off-topic of voice. But it's often hard to talk about these things in a vacumn.)

Christine: As for first or third person, it depends on the story. Editors (and readers) want the story told in whichever draws them best into the character's "other world" and story.

Christine: It used to be children's stories were almost always told in past tense. But YA authors started telling stories in first person present tense. An advantage to present tense is it gives a feeling of more immediacy. But it can also be more limiting and tricky to write.

Christine: Look at what Linda Sue Park does with present and past tense in her alternating siblings' voices and POVs in MY NAME WAS KEOKO.

Okami: What if the exact word that explains something important about the character is way above their grade level? Will explaining through context be enough? Or is there more you can do?

Christine: Context, actions, similes, other lower grade level words. Otherwise, can you be more specific?

OKAMI: Sure, what I mean is that sometimes when I'm editing my work, I notice that a certain word or sentence maybe too complex and could go over my reader's head or frustrate them when they read. But even after combing the dictionary or thesaurus, I can't find a simpler word to replace the really hard one that specifcally says what I need it to. It's either something important to reveal about a character, or the sentence will not make sense without it. Does that help?

Christine: Break it up into two sentences. Consider using a simile. Writing nonfiction can be especially difficult at times when trying to explain or substitute words for technical or scientific words. I think of comparisons that children do know, like the length of a football field, or the size of a grasshopper. Marianne Dyson is great at taking difficult space science concepts and making them relevant to what children know in their base core knowledge. When I read Marianne's space books or hear her speak, I wish I'd had her as a science teacher. She makes the subject so fascinating, yet simple to understand.

Christine: Okami, I wrote a book about refugees for Harcourt. Refugees is a middle school word and concept. The book was a HI/LO -- high interest/low reading level. Initially the editor told me I could write it at a third grade level. After I wrote it, she corrected herself and said it needed to be at a first and second grade reading level, with only about four-seven words that could be over level, and only two grade levels up. They gave me a word lists with specified grade levels marked beside the words. I worked longer and harder at getting that book down to level than I did interviewing and writing the book! But it can be done. Houghton Mifflin just picked up that book this year, I'm glad to say.

MMMGOOD: Ms. Kohler, your response is an encouragement to me. And congratulations!

Christine: Thanks! As a sidenote, I had also taken a few photos for the refugee book. When Houghton Mifflin picked it up, they had to renew a 5-yr. contract on the photos, so I got paid twice! Just goes to show to negotiate a separate fee for photos.

Christine: Now, tying back into voice, FOR A BETTER LIFE is NF. But what I did to make the topic, refugees, interesting to children is that I found people who were children at the time they were refugees and immigrated to the United States. Since I interviewed them, I was able to write their life stories from their child viewpoints. When I wrote the NF book about Turkey, I looked for a child angle to begin the book. The editor wanted me to write about a terrorist bombing at a Jewish synogogue in Instanbul. I found out a boy was going through the religious part of his bar mitzpah right at the time the temple was bombed. I began with that scene and showed it. In children's books they should end with a note of hope, so I got an insider to connect me with the Jewish Center director and was able to find out the follow-up of where the boy finally went through his bar mitzpah. So it ended with the temple being restored and the boy becoming a man. These are examples of looking for the child's perspective in NF.

Okami: I've been in the ICL course for over a year and I'm struggling with my nonfiction article. I took multiple leaves of absence because I didn't know how to go about it. Despite how much demand there is and how badly it's needed, nonfiction for me is harder than fiction. I love doing the research, but making the research interesting and relevant to young readers is tricky. I decided to take the suggestion from my instructor; I chose to write an article about living with a parent with a mental illness (Schizophrenia), while dealing with my own (High-functioning Asperser's).

Okami: Despite it being difficult to write this article for the reasons I mention above, it's something I feel strongly about having lived with it as a kid, and still do. While there have been many articles on dealing with mental illness, there aren't many for young readers, and I can't think of any instances when you hear about a teen dealing with a parent's mental issues and the balance of respecting them with knowing what they can and can't do. Usually it's about dealing with siblings with special needs, and while I certainly support that, I feel there are unique challenges and tough decisions involved with growing up around someone who under better circumstances would help you learn what you needed throughout life, but instead needs the kind of patience and understanding you'd give a two-year-old when they’re on "The Warpath."

Okami: I take care to NOT to preach or talk down to my readers, and I don't want this to just be a rant about constantly butting heads with my mother. But even though it hasn't been that long since I was a teen myself (I'm 22), I feel like I don't get the current YA landscape as I was never the "Edgy" type growing up. Any advice?

Christine: Wow, Okami, this is a tough question. I’m not sure it goes under the topic of “authentic kid voice” but let me see if I can share some insight. First, let me share on a personal level. My baby brother was schizophrenic. Billy died at about age 42. My brothers and I believe our mother has an undiagnosed mental illness. These type of family issues are not easy to write about. I also was not the “edgy” type growing up. I was the eldest, and “good girl,” especially since I took on added responsibilities due to my complicated family situation.

Christine: However, I did write about my situation, and my brother’s illness, in two formats. One, I wrote a YA novel based on incidents from one year in my teens when I lived full-time with my mother and brothers. I couldn’t sell the novel because it was too edgy. One editor at F, S & G said after more than a year reviewing the novel that “I can’t stand to look through this family’s kitchen window one more time.” This was about nine years ago and I don’t know if the YA landscape has changed enough that I could sell my novel now. I just know it would take a tremendous amount of emotional energy for me to revise it at this stage in my life.

Christine: I wrote about my brother, Billy, once in an essay titled “Suffer the Schizophrenics”. Essays are NF. I also used to be an acquisition editor of first person essays for a Hearst publication. This is the format I would recommend you write your NF assignment. (If you were my student I would have suggested the same.) I know it will be painful to write about, but there is emotional healing in the release of writing about painful things in our lives. (I have a dark sense of humor and people seem surprised by that. But that is because they don’t know what I have just told you about my family.)

Christine: I highly recommend that you read a copy of Seventeen magazine at the “faith” section. These are first person essays. Also read Guideposts and Chicken Soup for the Soul (syndicated in the newspaper). After you have read many first person essays, then decide which publication you would like to slant yours for and write it in the same style.

Christine: Also get a copy of the magazines Autism Asperger's Digest (Pg. 68 in ICL's 2009 Magazine Markets...) and Abilities (Pg. 54).

Christine: When you write -- no matter what you write! – don’t let your mother figuratively read over your shoulder. Just tell on paper whatever you want to from your growing up years. Don’t worry about whether it is edgy or not, or who will read it. Don’t self-censor. In the end, if you are like me, you will find such release in the writing of it that it won’t even matter if you sell it or not. You just need to write it down to heal. Love and blessings to you, Okami!

mmmgood: I never knew the heartbreak of mental illness until my own daughter was in crisis (finally diagnosed with schizoaffective, or schizophrenia coupled with a mood disorder). Unfortunately, our society offers little help or empathy. The thought of writing her story (with her help) sometimes consumes me. But I'm so fearful of it at the same time. Perhaps this is not the right time. The idea of representing her voice seems daunting, at best. Plus, I've managed (with tremendous help from God) to keep from sliding into depression ... I fear putting it all down on paper might do me in.

Christine: My mother's heart really goes out to Ellen Hopkins (and you) and others like her. Ellen was a mid-list writer, then her daughter got hooked on crank. She changed her genre and style and wrote novels in poetry about drug abuse. Now her novels are on the Times Best Seller list. But who would want her "Elijahs' mantle?" If anyone knew Ellen's life story they would never be envious of her career. She has paid a dear price in the loss of her daughter to drugs.

Christine: Tying this back to voice, after I met Ellen at her book signing I bought and read IMPULSE because I wanted to see how she wrote three different characters, and three different POVs, in three different poetry meters and style. IMPULSE is incredible!

Christine: On a personal level, there are years where we need to be emotionally stable more than we need to pour out personal stories. Take lessons from E.A.Poe and others who let their writing take them to dark places, and they chose to stay there with alcohol, depression, drugs.

Christine: Instead, you can keep an emotions folder. I started one last year. I have a folder on my desktop and when I recognized that I'm strongly feeling an emotion then I label it (i.e. shock, anger, grief, frustration, etc.), then I write what I am feeling, or how I might act it out (which I really don't), or a simile to better describe the feeling

CARMEN: My question is, is there any guidelines to know if the language used by a kid character is authentic. My fear is that my character will sound like me speaking through him/ her, not the character speaking. That is why I still do not feel comfortable writing stories even with some ideas in mind.

Christine: We have a saying in this business, Carmen. Write the crappy first draft down, then clean it up in revision. So, don't be afraid, just jump in as if you got a new set of finger paints and have fun making a mess. It can be cleaned up! But I also want to take the opportunity to bring up something else with voice that I don't feel I've addressed yet.

Christine: It is not just a voice that comes into our head and translates on page. It is also the childlike perceptions. Go back to a place in your own childhood (Assign. #3) and write it from your perception then, at that age, not at the age you are now. Children perceive things differently. Children are egocentric. Let me give you an example:

Christine: When my daughter was about nine I had to take her to the University of Hawaii with me for one of my classes. All of these years later, she does not recall the awesome mountains and walking a long distance into the most gorgeous valley on this Earth. She does not recall my professor lecturing en francais about Napoleon. She doesn't recall plumeria wafting through the air, or the Kona breezes through the jalousies. What did she observe as a child? She met a man who was missing a finger; he said it got cut off in a paper cutter. She liked the colored chalk drawings on the green board when she entered the classroom. Think about how you would look at situations and events and objects as a child at the age of your protagonist.

mmmgood: Would mannerisms play into "voice" as well? Do you have suggestions for making the mannerisms of our characters come alive?

Christine: Yes, I consider mannerisms to be essential to well-developed characters, body movements in action between dialogue (called beats, or piece of business). You also want to make your characters distinctly different, so you might want to give one a tic. Voice encompasses not just dialogue and internal monologue (thoughts) but also the narrative voice of your story or article. In my opinion, the best children’s stories are told with the narrative voice of the character, even if it is told in third person. But tell it in a limited point of view (POV) from the viewpoint of the character.

mmmgood: POV was not something I considered in my writing ( ) until recently. A short story I submitted for our May Monthly Writeoff exhibited several points of view. Perhaps sticking with one POV comes easily for some, but not for me. I tend to get into the heads of all my characters.

Christine: Head-hopping is common in novice children's lit writers and nearly all adult lit pulp fiction writers. (Can I get away with saying that about the adult writers?) It is why I dislike reading adult pulp fiction. I don't care as deeply about a character when I'm yanked out of his head and into another POV, then thrown into another POV. My students know I take stock in colored markers. After you have written that first crappy draft -- the one not to fret about, just get it down on paper -- then take different colored markers for each character and mark up your manuscript. Afterward, in revision, go back and either delete or shift the viewpoint to the one main character.

Christine: Okay, now let me shift the conversation another way. Sometimes a story begs to be told in multiple POV. But in children's lit it is usually done in different chapters, not within the same chapter like in adult lit. Here's some examples of multiple POV novels: SKINHUNGER by Kathleen Duey, MY NAME WAS KEOKO by Linda Sue Park, IMPULSE by Ellen Hopkins, BAT 6 by Virginia Euwer Wolff.

Louisa: When using sentences like, "It's the devil 'imself come to take us all to Hades!" is that too intense or too above the level of 8-12 year-olds?

Christine: If the story calls for it, and since it is MG novel, then use it. Again, if the story is compelling, but the editor thinks you should use some other euphemism for devil or hell, then s/he will address it in revisions.

Christine: This question actually reminds me of an incident from when I taught a 7th grade language arts class in South Fl. I had a male student who didn't want to read. Whenever we read a book, his parents sent a note with some objection and a suggested replacement. Of course, I noticed the replacement book always had a movie made of it. I had the entire class read BRIDGE TO TERIBITHIA by Newbery-winner Katherine Paterson. This boy brought a note from his parents complaining the book had the words "God...damn...hell" within two pages of each other, and so this was a blasphemy and against their religion. (Oh, pul-eese, if they had read the context they would have realized a very important theological point was being made. Paterson is the daughter of missionaries to China and she is married to a Presbyterian minister. Other than her Japanese book, her MG novels are profoundly religious.) I assigned the brat, er boy, an alternate book of my choosing. One without a movie.

mmmgood: We at the Writers Retreat have had good discussions on the appropriate use of foul language. It seems the age of children who use such language keeps dropping. Do you ever use questionable language when writing for children? If so, what guidelines do you adhere to?

Christine: In magazines, I would not advise any foul language. Not if you want to get published. Children’s magazines have an agenda, which is mostly to educate.

Christine: You probably remember the controversy when the word scrotum was used in the MG novel, Higher Power of Lucky by Susan Patron, a Newbery winner. In context I didn’t see anything wrong with it.

Christine: I write for both the Christian and secular markets, and I personally don’t use swear words or foul language, so I’m not comfortable with my characters using bad words.

Christine: Joy Neaves, former editor of (now defunct) Front Street, was teasing me about having an “F” shelf, and how I would read an edgy YA book with bad words, then sanitize my mind by reading a bunch of “clean” books before reading something else from my “f” shelf. After getting teased, I went home and read FEED that had been sitting on my bookshelf for a couple of years. It was fantastic! Feed is probably one of the only books I’ve read where the “f---” (for use of carnal knowledge) word is justified to show the denigration of language.

Christine: However, would my local public library director, who is also a pastor, buy the book? No. Could most teachers use Feed in the classroom? Probably not, at least not without risking possibly their jobs. Especially not in the Bible belt where I live in Texas.

Christine: So, if you are going to use foul language, consider the age of the audience, and the market (library, school, or bookstore). But I believe most of all you should be true to your story and the characters. Is this language called for? Is it in context? Or are you throwing in foul language just for shock value?

Jan: Also keep in mind that foul language reads much stronger on the page than it "sounds" in a movie (for example.) Katherine Patterson tells the story of how often she's chided for Gilly Hopkin's "foul mouth" when in the book Gilly uses almost no swear words at all! But her whole attitude and the presence of a couple words makes a strong impact and produces exactly the kind of characterization Katherine meant to convey -- a child who had heard a lot and who was way rough around the edges.

Truth_about4ever: My friend and I were talking a bit about this last night; not all children always read books of their age-group; some read adult novels like Stephen King or Michael Critchon. Won't they know we're trying to "tone it down" just for them? Won't that make them wonder why children books have to be different in that aspect from adults?

Christine: To follow your reasoning further, then why don't we write graphic sex and violence into children's books? And yet, look at even what we term "edgy" YA, the sex and violence is off-page. Read SPEAK by Laurie Halse Anderson, about rape. (BTW, Laurie's dad is a minister.) In your Best of... read "The Drive-by," about a drive-by shooting. Just because children can read at a certain age level, doesn't mean they should read everything at that level. That's the parents' prerogative to decide what moral level the child should read at.

Christine: That is also one reason YA came into being as a class of literature. I'm a prime example. There wasn't YA books when I grew up. (OUTSIDERS was published while I was in high school but I didn't know about it.) I also lived in the country and did not have access to libraries, not even school libraries. So, by about fourth or fifth grade I read at an adult level. I read everything I could get my hands on, including VALLEY OF THE DOLLS, by about age 13. Sure, I read Dr. Zhivago, too. But most of what I read was probably not appropriate, or fine literature.

Christine: That is one reason why when I began reading children's literature when my children came along, I absolutely fell in love with children's books. The writing is so superior to adult novels. I have degrees in English lit, and my husband knows not to recommend his pulp fiction choices because children's lit is held up to such high standards that the writing in most adult novels feels like a waste of time to read.

Christine: Sorry for the digression, back to the original question. I don't believe children ask themselves, "Golly gee, why did they leave out the sex scene in that book. Where did the baby come from?" Or, "Oh, this is dumbed down, there are no 4-letter words." No, the child and teen is reading for the story and will judge the book by whether it is a credible story and characters that swept them into the "other world" or not. When you watch animations such as Shrek or one of the ants movies, the sexual innuendos, bar scenes, etc. is written in for the entertainment of the adult who is taking the child to the film. Unless the child has been sexualized through a digest of inappropriate movies, books, or worse, molestation, the child will not even get the sexual innuendos.

Truth_about4ever: I have never thought about it like that before. Thanks. I never thought about there never been any YA novels before, but that's true.

Christine: Many authors write down the years their characters would be living. You may not have that problem, at age 17, but it is good advice for the 40+ woman who asked about relating to teens and children today. Consider if your character is nine, then s/he was born in the 21st century. That's a sobering thought for some of us. If you ever take an education survey course in college, you will learn that childhood is actually a fairly recent concept, too. If you read any 18th century lit you'll see how children were treated like little adults, including in the workplace.

andipandi: I am new to writing books for children and young adults. How do I know that my voice is right for my younger audience? How do I know if my topic is appropriate? How do I determine the right age bracket my pieces are for?

Christine: Read, read, read and spend lots of time with different age groups. For example, my first degree is in secondary ed. But I taught 3rd grade Sunday School for years. After my husband and I moved, the smaller church gave us a combined second and third grade class. Whoa! Did I get an instant education on the difference in cognitive abilities between a seven and eight year old. I think I learned more from teaching different ages of children than I did from all my years of college education.

Christine: I use the term "the lights go on upstairs" regarding 8-year-olds. But in theological terms, I've wondered if the "age of accountability" doesn't begin at 8 or 9. If anyone has not worked intensely with elementary children, they should. On a spiritual level, the understanding deeps so greatly at about age 8 or 9. It makes me totally understand why publishers break the ages up into 8-12 for MG lit.

Mikki: I'm finishing the last assignment for the ICL novel writing course, and my MC is 13. In most respects, she is an average, "normal" ( is any teenager 'normal?') teen, but there are times when my critique group feel that she is talking above her age. Frankly, I just don't see it! In some respects, she is a mouthy teen ( taken from when my own daughter was...ugh..13) but mostly she is just a nice kid undergoing some serious trauma and learning much to soon to become an adult. Her 'voice' is right for her...in my opinion. When my group first mentioned this, I went back and tried to "dumb down' her vocabulary, both in her dialogue and in her thoughts. It didn't work. So I went back to having her speak and think as she had been doing all along. (Actually, she got very upset with me for trying to 'dumb down' her character.) So, my question is: how do you know when your characters are speaking "over their heads" in terms of age, IF it seems right for you as you are writing?

Christine: This is a hard question to answer without reading the manuscript. Rely on your instructor for #10B to do that for you. However, from what you have said, is it possibly your character needs to be older than 13? Another thing I wondered based on what you said about her being mouthy, is the character likable in any way? Some characters are just so abrasive that the reader doesn't even like the character. The character needs to be sympathetic to the reader.

Jan: Having a character drift a bit too old (especially a character with a very strong voice and "smart" edge to her humor) is really easy. That's one reason I am so grateful to my critique group because I often can't quite tell when the character has drifted but they can -- and I trust them since some of my group are YA authors. Now if just one of them things a line might be too old...I only look at it. But if ALL of them think a line is too old, I give it serious hard consideration starting with the assumption that I'm wrong somehow and looking for how to fix it without losing voice. It can be tricky but you don't have usually have to dumb down, just recognize that adult isn't the same as "smart." It's hard for me too.

Okami: Are short sentences really the end-all, be-all in clear, tight writing? Can't some readers handle a long paragraph here and there? As much as I understand and deeply respect those with reading barriers and other learning disabilities, trying to make my writing accessible to both kinds of readers often makes me want to pull my hair out, seriously. If it's too simple, the really good readers will get bored. If it's too complex, I hear about it over and over and over again from my trusted readers when they look over my work that they'll get frustrated, bored, or both and throw the book across the room. How true is that from Chapter books to MG and YA novels?

Christine: The key to answering your question is in the last question: ...from Chapter books to MG to YA novels. Let’s start backwards. In YA novels you can pretty much use your full arsenal of adult language, long sentences and all. IF, it is the style and voice you want for that teen scene. For example, I could especially see long flowing complex sentences and high-level vocabulary if you want the reader to enter a world of woodland fairies. However, keep in mind that often the shorter the sentences, the more punch and tenseness it can add to a scene. So, just because you are using complex sentences in much of the narrative, doesn’t mean the entire text should be the same sentence length. If it is, you could put your reader to sleep after a while. Sentence lengths should be varied. I wouldn't get so caught up in the length of the sentences for YA or adult audiences as I would the sound and affect of the tone you are trying to achieve. Read your work aloud. In critique groups, have someone else read your work aloud.

Christine: If you are writing the YA novel with labyrinth sentences and your critique groups complains about it, you might take notice if their complaint is justified. Occasionally I critique a student’s work where I just want to yell, “Breathe!” On those sentences I will write “run-on” because if I find multiple subjects, or mostly I find multiple verbal clauses, then chances are the sentence is too confusing. Instead of taking offense by your critique partners, diagram the sentences they are complaining about. Once you diagram, you’ll know if these sentences are too complex or run-ons.

Christine: Okay, let’s talk about MG, ages 8-12. I love this age because at about 8-9 the lights come on upstairs. They read higher cognitive development. Children grasp the concept of time at about age 8 or 9, so you can use limited flashbacks. Their vocabulary is expanding and soon they will be able to read “above level,” even though maturity wise they possibly would not be ready for YA lit. Their reading comprehension is also expanding. But, the reading comprehension is still not at an adult level. And that is the reason why not to confuse them with really long complex sentences.

Christine: Any age level below MG is still a beginning reader, or pre-emergent reader. The sentences must be short because children cannot comprehend (i.e. absorb) more than one or two components in one sentence. Notice I said “components.” Again, diagram your sentences to see how many components there are.

Christine: For more information on this subject, I recommend you read on language, reading, and cognitive development of children. I am a believer that precise writing is clear writing. I wrote for the adult market for about 17 years, and do you know experts say newspapers should be written at about a fifth-grade reading level

Jan: Ah...forgive me for tagging along, but I wanted to add that there are some things to keep in mind about the human brain and the processing of the written word. Readers of any age tend to do the following things:

1. Absorb the first part of a long sentence better than the last part.
2. Get pulled back into a long sentence by a really good, compelling verb.
3. Resist puzzling out a complicated sentence if the meaning is obscured by the complexity.

Christine: Jump in any time, Jan! I will confess, my first degree is in secondary ed. and I taught in school 6th-12th. I am not a reading specialist.

Christine: Where I really learned a lot about cognitive development is when my husband and daughter took early childhood courses. (My husband's advanced degrees are in management and my daughter is teaching Psych 101 at a university and finishing her dissertation in psych.) My husband directed a Child Care Center for six yrs. and my daughter taught 4-yr-olds while working on her bachelor's. As a result, we got at the house a subscription to National Association of the Education of Young Children (NAEYC) journals. I read the ones on brain and cognitive development. It helped in understanding the WHY behind writing for young children.

ColoradoKate: Hi, Christine, and thanks so much for coming! Could you recommend some of your favorite MG and YA books with great examples of authentic voice?

Christine: I love this question, Kate, because it shows you are a reader! And you wish to read with a writer's eye. I learn more from reading and deconstructing a good book than I do from lectures and textbooks.

• Caitlyn Dlouhy, editor at Atheneum, says her favorite for voice is DOVEY COE by Frances O'Roark Dowell.
• I mentioned Richard Peck's Newbery winning Chicago novels: A YEAR DOWN YONDER and A LONG WAY FROM CHICAGO.
• I like Graham Salisbury's novels for pidgin dialect.
• Joyce Moyer Hostetter researches and vets her dialects in novels such as MG BLUE and HEALING WATER.
• Karen Cushman is amazing in every MG book she writes. Every voice is unique and you can tell she spent a lot of time and thought into the characters and voices and tone.
• In YA, I'm in love with Kathleen Duey's dark fantasy SKINHUNGER and hunger for the next two books of the trilogy. (Fantasy is probably my least favorite genre to read so this is high praise from me.)
• I read anything by Jane Yolen when I want something lyrical.
• Pam Munoz Ryan is the best for MG Hispanic literature and how she weaves in a foriegn language (Spanish). In particular, read ESPERANZA RISING and BECOMING NAOMI LEON.
• Louise Rennison in her naughty YA ANGUS, THOMGS AND FULL-FRONTAL SNOGGING is hilarious and so heavy in British slang that she had to include a glossary.
• In PBs, look at COME ON, RAIN! by Karen Hesse.

Christine: Oh, this is delicious! I better stop here. Can you tell I'm a reader, too?

ColoradoKate: I think of Kate DiCamillo, too, when I think about voice, especially Because of Winn-Dixie.

Christine: Yes, I love BECAUSE OF WINN-DIXIE, too. In fact, I re-read it a few months ago. And now would like to have a third close read, as a writer.

Okami: Having read your answer to a question involving the use of bad language, I was wondering something. While I don't use swear words in my stories with the exceptions of things I write for fun and for me, in one of my MG novels, my antagonist says, "What the Heck" and a couple of my trusted readers found that was too close to swearing and suggested I change it. I didn't think it was that offensive, and given the intense nature of the scene, I needed my antagonist to sound angry and hurt. I actually think it's fun to see how you can express the offbeat or villianous characters without swearing. It's like a challege to see how far you can go without actually using bad words. I was wondering about it though, would that be a problem? If so, I could change it somehow.

Christine: In MG novels, I don't see anything wrong with heck or crap if the person is really mad. In MG novels (notice I did not say short stories for magazines) I wouldn't get hung up on one semi-curse word. If an editor absolutely loves your story, but is stopped in her tracks with that one word, s/he would still buy the novel then address the offensive word in revision.

Jan: Yes, do keep in mind that most magazines won't allow ANY language that could offend a parent (and potentially end up in lost revenue through magazine subscription cancellations.) This means not only should you avoid words like "heck" or "crap" but also euphamisms born from religious curses like "Jeeze" or "OMG."

roundtuit: I was thinking kids today often don't even speak the same language we did when we were kids (anyone over forty) so any hints to how we can learn kidspeak? It seems to me even among kids there is language barriers; boarders, music, etc.

Christine: Over 40, huh? I'll pass on telling my age, if you don't mind. Oh, what was the question? How do we relate? How we always have. By observing children and teens today. Maybe the question is, what age group or genre should I write for? Can I relate to teens today and speak their language? Personally, I think YA contemporary is probably the hardest for most older people to write authentically. Or, is it just the perception that we can no longer relate?

Stephenie: I know that an authentic child's voice is based on how kids really talk, but it's not exactly the same. My girls, for example, use "like" for every fourth word. I wouldn't, like, want to, uh, write like that all the, you know, time, you know. So, how do you turn that real dialogue into readable dialogue?

Christine: I know you know this, like, you know. (Sorry, couldn't resist. The best I've read on this topic is ICL's Talk About on Speech. I used this TA when lecturing on dialect at a university a couple of years ago. Unless you are writing a YA novel about Zombie Valley Girls, drop the like, um, uhs, and you know....

stjohn: Thanks so much for spending the time to answer our questions. How would the kid-speak sound from sometimes in the past, like from the 1920s and 1950s?

Christine: I love historical fiction, and especially accurate on the historical part, including language, so I'm glad you asked this question. My first recommendation is to get the story down in a first draft and don't get hung up on every word or you could get so bogged down that you can't move forward. However, after the first draft, go to the library and look for a book that gives the period or the etymology (history) of words. The complete Oxford dictionary (I think about 36 volumes) is one such book. For example, did you know that the word babysitting came into existence in the 1950s? So, you could use it for the 1950s story, but not for one placed in the 1920s. There are also books with clothes, inventions, and other items from specific time periods. I also pull newspapers and magazines from that time period. I've found magazines in antique stores, as well as Half Price bookstore. You can tell a ton from ads. I've also watched movies from different eras, such as Andy Hardy movies for a pre-WWII novel I was writing. However, I wouldn't recommend going too heavy on slang from the period. Like salt and pepper, sprinkle sparingly.

Christine: Read AL CAPONE DOES MY SHIRTS by Gennifer Choldenko. It is easy to forget it is historical, in 1935. I found the same when reading THE GADGET by Paul Zindel, about the creation of the atomic bomb, and BUD, NOT BUDDY by Christopher Paul, during the Depression. I could be wrong, it's been awhile since I've read these three books. But I do recall the story line much clearer than the feeling of them being historical, except that the subject matters were historical. (Make sense?) I think the reason is because, as Michael Green publisher of Philomel told me, the historical should be background to the story in children's books. Remember, children do not have the core body of knowledge that adults have, so you can't assume they have much historical background because they have no well of experience to draw from. As a writer, you would have to tell too much, and then it would bog down the story.

Okami: I'm always amazed at how savvy kids are nowadays compared to when I was a kid. The early 90s were the beginning of my school days. It's amazing how much has changed in the last two decades alone. Even though many have told me this before, I'm still wondering if it's possible to write YA novels that are still real and relatable, without becoming a dark, moody "Soap Opera." While I applaud and deeply understand the need for books that tackle the tough issues head on, I'm just not comfortable dealing with weighty topics like drugs, school shootings, etc. Can you please name some YA books that great reads that matter, and don't feel the need to encompass every painful thing a teen can go through in one book?

Christine: Yes, teen angst is all the rage, but when hasn't it been since the first YA book The Outsidersby S.E. Hinton? Although all stories need conflict, not all need be "social problem" novels. Read instead historical, fantasy, sci fi, and other genres outside of contemporary YA. Although, it could be successfully argued that all YA novels deal with social problems and teen angst, just dressed up in different costumes.

seawaterblue: I am writing an MG novel and was previously struggling with finding the right narrative voice and tone. I guess I have found them, I'm not completely sure. Still trying out ...My boy-protagonist is 10. He lives in Southeast Asia (where Chinese, Malay, Indian, and European and even American-influenced cultures mix) with an aunt he fears and hates.

1. I made him sound like a girl previously. Now that I have his 'boy' voice back, I wonder how I can go about making him sound light (like boys sometimes like to pretend to be uncaring about a lot of stuff) but then the readers will still know that he is repressed?
2. He will discover a family secret and will go on a personal adventure. How can I retain aspects of his previous voice, but make changes along with his new attitude?
3. Last of all, as boys this age don't observe a lot of things, how can I put in those multi-cultural details through him since he's the narrator?

Christine: First of all, I've been to Asia. I lived in Japan and Guam, worked on Saipan, Philippines, and used to shop in Korea. I have close friends from China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. I've written (as yet unpublished) two historical novels set on Guam. One MG novel, a WWII spy novel, has a 9-yr-old male protagonist, and I had similar problems that you described. One question I have is since you know girls better than boys, why don't you make the protagonist a girl instead? Another question: What ethnicity and country of origin is the protagonist?

1. Because of his age, you may have a harder time making him sound light, or flippant. If he were older, the boy would come off as sarcastic. It is true that some people hide pain with humor. He could be passive/aggressive. He could appear to be respectful, but is rebelling on the inside. For example, boys say, "Yes, ma'am," or "Yes sir," but it is the tone and body actions that determines the tone and meaning behind those words. This is one of the problems with getting a verbal voice and tone across on paper. It's the question one woman asked about mannerisms. So let's try some examples of how you could do this: "Yes, ma'am," Liam said, arms crossed and eyes glaring at his aunt. Liam stared at his toes squishing in the marshy rice paddy. "Yes, ma'am," he mumbled, never looking up at her. Since he is nine, he may do funny, but snide, immature hand motions behind his aunt's back. Or he may mimic her in an exaggerated way when she's not around. Watch boys 8-10 and write down actions they do. Boys make faces, b
2. unny ears, hand gestures, fart noises in their cheeks or armpits, pig noses pulling their own noses up with their fingers.
3. This is one question you need to pose to your critique partners after the manuscript is finished. Ask, is the voice consistent. This is one problem I dealt with, too, because I worried that my male protagonist sounded young in the beginning when he was playing around with Capt. Midnight, but then maybe sounded as if he'd matured too much when the pretend play turned to real spies and espionage. Our stories are male coming-of-age stories, so the boys do need to mature. They put away childish notions and actions and face reality and mature enough to deal with it. It can't help but affect their voices and actions. But you are right, they wouldn't suddenly put all the childish behavior away, straighten up and suddenly act and sound mature.
4. This is also a tough question and one I grapple with all the time. I love the foreign setting details. I would say go ahead and write them in the first draft. Then strip out all the ones that are not from his perspective in revision. Jane Yolen explains how to weave in setting where the character interacts with the setting, and the setting affects the character. An example is how I had Liam interacting with the rice paddies because he didn't want to look at his aunt. It shows how he distracted himself from facing her, and he used a piece of his natural world as the distraction.
5. You didn't have a fourth question, but I want to take the liberty to address voice. When writing foreign words, italicize and then give the meaning immediately. Study historical fiction with foreign setting such as BUFFALO SONG by Sherry Garland, set in Vietnam, and MY NAME WAS KEOKO by Linda Sue Park, set in Korea. Linda does a great job of dropping in one-liners to fill in cultural background.

Christine: Asians tend to drop articles and some have trouble pronouncing r, so you might want to avoid certain words. ESL Asians don't use contractions. Depending on the mother language, some ESL people reverse order of words in sentences. For example: Do you want me to bring you the chopsticks? -- Chopsticks, you want I bring?

Christine: Give adults a more formal language than children. Look at the stylistic features I mentioned in another post. Read English-language books set in Asia, specifically the country you are writing about.

Okami: I wanted to really highlight Christine's second point here. I wanted to highlight this point as I think Christine's spot on. However, being a guy myself, it's not always easy to put the childish ways behind, especially if they're the few things that feel safe or comforting, and when your new "Adult" concerns are really bringing you down. I speak from experience on that one. In my case though, it was continuing to watch the kids' shows on PBS when I was 14, and it wasn't until I was 17 that I started seriously writing children's fiction. At least now I have an excuse, its research! Besides, it gives me hope that one day I can write a real picture book instead of conflict-free "Fragments"

seawaterblue: I love the part about the rice paddy field. That IS a wonderful way of sneaking in the details.

seawaterblue: My story is set in Singapore in the 1990s. My protagonist is half-English, half-Chinese-Singaporean. He has been living with his Chinese-Singaporean aunt in S'pore all his life. The local English is mixed with Chinese and Malay sentence structure. We do speak without the articles! And our intonation is the other way round!

seawaterblue: But I don't want all this to distract the reader from what is going on with the poor, 10-year-old boy. He isn't affected by the cultures. He's been in that 'mixture' since he was a baby. He is more affected by the oppression that comes from the adults, from the education since young that he is powerless (I suppose this bit may be universal, though the extent of which has got to do with the culture?).

seawaterblue: I think the advice on using gestures is precious. When people 'can't speak,' they move around a lot and make funny faces or angry gestures to express themselves.

seawaterblue: Why not make my protagonist a girl? I've been asked the same question in another post. I really can't say for sure. There is always an image of this boy rather than any other boy, or girl, when I think about the story. It has to be a boy growing and becoming somebody he feels happy with. If I make him into a girl, I'll be telling the story of my boy-protagonist's sidekick, a local girl. And I know this story isn't entirely about her. Besides, I want to avoid the topic of 'Girls being oppressed in Asian culture.' It's not about gender, this story. It's some part to do with culture. It's a lot to do with being a child. So far, this is what I have about my story. (So why in the first place did I have him sound like a girl? ... Think I was writing with MY voice.) I appreciate your advice and suggestions so much. I'm going to write every detail down in my first draft then be quite ruthless with them in my revision.

Christine: Now that you've told me more about the story, let me make a suggestion. Although, once the text is done, you might throw this all out and go with what is best for the story. Since English is not his mother tongue, you might not want to write the narration in his voice. You might want to go with a more detatched narrator. I still don't know that you would want to write it in omniscient, though. Either way, I would probably write the story in third person. In third person, write the narration in fluent English. However, the dialogue can still be in dialect.

Christine: The older the person, make the dialect heavier. Do not make your main character's dialect too heavy. Or, say the aunt has long tirades, if you dialect is too heavy then you will lose the reader. Read A SINGLE SHARD, a Newbery winner by Linda Sue Park, set in Korea, and A BUFFALO SONG by Sherry Garland (Harcourt), set in Vietnam. Singapore is an interesting country. I attended the U of Hawaii with a guy from Singapore who told me much about his country. I can't think of any English-language children's lit from there, so it would be an exotic locale. Are you still in Singapore or SE Asia? If so, there is a wonderful SCBWI chapter there, and my critique partner is the RA (regional advisor). Kathleen is in Hong Kong now. Join! Kathleen is a linguistics prof (her husband is Taiwanese and also a prof) so she would be wonderful in advising you on dialect and other aspects of your novel during SCBWI critique meetings if they have them there. I know they do get in special speakers. If anything, find someone from that region on the SCBWI board to critique with.

seawaterblue: Yes, I'm in Singapore. I don't know of any SEA or Asian SCBWI board. But I'll definitely find out more! I have tried a third-person narration previously. It didn't work out. This first-person so far, is more intimate with the story. I understand what you mean about the sentence structure of my protagonist's thoughts due to his mother tongue. Hmm ... I'll try both ways out and then see which is better. Thanks for all the references! This has been a major, major help to my writing.

mmmgood: It seems there are two opposite schools of thought on the subject of writing with an authentic kid voice. One is that their slang should be used sparingly, if at all. The other is that we should go to a public pool, playground, etc. to observe and listen, with the object being to educated ourselves on what would make our characters sound true-to-life and current.

Christine: don’t believe these two pieces of advice are contradictory. Newbery winner Richard Peck told me that he hangs out at food courts at malls to listen to teen girls talk. However, he also told me to read other books in the dialect I intend to write and imitate them. What I found is the dialect is heavier in dialogue than in narrative, even though it is the same character’s voice. (Example: Read Skin of the Blue Sea by Graham Salisbury)

Christine: So, although you capture the flavor of slang and speech of contemporary teens, the writer should take out all the ums, uhs, you knows, like, etc. and other stuttering speech. Then eliminate all the dialogue which is chit chat, and doesn’t progress the plot and action forward, which is the purpose of dialogue. For the most part, use correct spelling and grammar. I highly recommend reading the TA on Speech. Super terrific advice in it!

Christine: BTW, I'm also originally from Ohio. Contrary to popular believe, we, from the Midwest, also have a regional dialect. After I go to Ohio or Pennsylvania, I come back to TX with my "Pennsylvania Dutch(e)" sayings. To read a funny book with all those sayings, read Richard Peck's A Long Way from Chicago. This is an example of how he write in dialect, yet the book is very readable.

Christine: Check the library for Liguistic Atlas of the United States. Since I am from TX, but not a native Texan, and write period pieces, I also bought a book that divides Texas up into its different regional dialects, and gives historical words. You could check from the region you wish to write for setting and see if there is a liguistic/dialect book. Start with regional presses, such as Pineapple Press publishes Florida books.

Oahu: In the "Best of the Children's Market" I like the voice in "Black Cherry Eyes" by Kezi Matthews. It is also the voice in the movie "Lakawana Blues". It intriques me and I would love to be able to use that voice. Can it be learned?

Christine: I think nearly any voice can be mimicked, just like dialect. It won't be exact, but studying the style and using similar devices will give you a similar, yet unique, voice of your own. I re-read "Black Cherry Eyes" just now. It is interesting that the writer, Kezi, uses very short sentences. (Okami asked several questions about sentence length and complexity.) One of the exercises I recommend is to write a scene with each sentence no more than 10 words. In an actual story you wouldn't want every sentence with 10 words or less, unless the audience is beginner readers. However, writing in short sentences can add tension and punch to a scene.

Christine: Jan mentioned action verbs instead of passive verbs in one of her comments. Another exercise I recommend is to take an unpublished story you've written and circle all the "to be" verbs. See how many can be eliminated or replaced with an action verb. The last paragraph on Pg. 146 of "Black-Cherry Eyes" here are the action verbs: stopped, bought, pigged, spewed, blew, sat. Later, they "bulked" up around the table. Very visual! She also uses concrete nouns which puts the reader into the setting. Take note of the original similes and metaphors: Izetta sat frozen like one of of those little green lizards trying to blend in; skin like summer peaches and long, dark hair slick as beaver pelts...I especially like what the author says about revision after the story.

Sharonda: I'd like to know if you have any tips on staying consistant with your voice in stories. In my Assignment 1, I aimed for the voice of a 6-year-old but my instructor said I was speaking with the voice of a 10-year-old instead. Do you have any tips on being consistant with your voice or, maybe even, how to tell when you may be a little ahead of the voice you mean to write with?

Christine: Hmm, consistent or the wrong age? It sounds as if you might have been consistent, but the boy's voice and actions were older than what you aimed for, six instead. If you really, really want to write a six-year-old boy, then watch and listen to six-year-old boys. Otherwise, it may be you would be better suited to write for middle grade, ages 8-12. Sharonda, what I like about your question is that you are asking it at all. I had a student last week inform me that she refuses to "write down" to children and they need to "read up" to a higher level. But her vocabulary is post-graduate. Just keep observing and listening to children of different ages. It also might be helpful to read a child development book so you can get a handle on the different ages and stages. Otherwise, try out writing for different age groups while in the ICL course. Stay tuned in to yourself, your comfort level, your interests, and see where it takes you. Take joy in the self-discovery process!

Sharonda: I have yet another question! Do you think that writing a story using the child we observe in Assignment 5 would help us write with the voice of a child a specific age better? Doing something like that anytime we are around kids different ages would help our writing improve by adding more specific details about children and getting inside their heads more, right?

Christine: Any time you spend with children, and observe their actions and speech, is the best education for understanding their abilities and limitations at different ages and stages. Personally, I think that just because we are parents, it doesn't necessarily mean we pay attention to their development stages. Yeah, we know babies keep us up at night and cry a lot and mess their diapers fives times a day and twice as much in a car seat. But we are so tired, and cranky, and busy trying to keep everything together that we don't necessarily take the time to stand back as a "fly on the wall" and observe.

Christine: That's true of all the stages for our own children. At three we are trying to get this kid who is throwing a temper tantrum in the grocery store to stop flailing at the tall stack of Nabisco wafers. We are embarrassed, pre-occupied. We don't see anything funny in the incident at the time. So we miss what is going on from the child's viewpoint. But be an impartial witness leaning against the meat cooler and watch the child. Listen to what he is screaming, "I NEED that at my house!" Understand that he wants the wafer cookies and that's all that matters. Understand that he is three and he is not in the least embarrassed about throwing a fit in public or the least upset, morally, about tossing the Nabisco boxes all over the floor. Listen closely as he insists the wafers are for his pet "dina-sour," who is "hun-gee." Look at things from a child's perspective. Take notes. After awhile you'll pinpoint what is three-year-old behavior and ten-year-old behavior.

Quill: My question is this: I'm a novice in writing for children, but very experienced as a catalog copywriter. In my work, the "sound" and rhythm of words are used very deliberately to create a mood, to persuade, to engage the reader. I know that rhyme, rhythm and repetition are important in children's literature. But is it possible (or commonly done) to choose words so that in a scene they "add up to" a desired affect? To use an overly-simplified example, in a scene with an "evil" character, could the words, language and sounds be purposely chosen to create a "slimy, slithery" mood? Could a happier scene "bubble" with bright-sounding, colorful words? Can this be done well, or is there a danger of it being too obvious? I'm curious if great writers are subtly affecting us by their word choices, even when we don't realize it!

Christine: If you look at the five stylistic features, number three is "word choice." I was at a workshop and an ICL instructor was writing a story with a dragon. She was working at getting the perfect voice for the dragon. We talked about the soft and hard consonants, among other poetic devices and voice options. After a rewrite, this author re-read her dragon voice passages. She had purposely put in lots of S consonant words. It was a delightful transformation of the entire character because of the change in voice with word choices. Here is an example in an exercise that I made up to demonstrate on word choice:

yaya: Did you always want to write? And have you always known that you wanted to write for kids? Do you have a particular age you especially like to target or, are you more inclined to follow the mood of the story?

Christine: I was aware of compulsively writing by about 4th grade, age 9. When I was in about 6th or 7th grade I was writing my first novel. Looking back, it would have been a YA novel. I was not able to finish it because I burned it. (Long story.) By 8th or 9th grade my dad was aware that I was headed in the direction of becoming a professional writer. He sent me to the school counselor and told them I couldn't change my track from college prep to business. Dad told me, "There is no money in the arts, be a teacher." By my senior year in high school I had a wonderful mentor who was a professional writer, and I knew I would do two things in life -- be a professional writer and travel.

Christine: When I finally stepped into a professional writing life in my 20s, I never thought of it compartmentalized into adult vs. children's lit, or any particular genre. I wrote in them all and for all levels, just as I teach all levels. Immediately I published NF in adult magazines, fiction in children's books, and poetry in scholarly literary journals. The only ones telling me not to do this -- to specialize -- were college professors. But when I looked at who was giving me the advice, in every case I was already more published than the naysayers.

Christine: Okay, how does this relate to voice? Hmm. How about this? In the beginning of my career I wrote about what I know. So I guess that voice was my own. I had to mature as a writer to be able to research and write about things beyond my small world, and to be able to write in a voice of another.

yaya: Do you have any special method for letting adults into your stories? Do the adults have large parts in your stories or, do they take more of a back seat?

Christine: There is a bad joke among children's lit writers that we belong to the "Dead Mother's Club." If you don't get the adults out of the way, then they direct, nag, lecture, and solve the problem for the child. Today's stories for children should empower children to resolve their own problems.

drgr97: I am a big fan of writing in rhyme, yet I routinely read in opinion pieces and advice articles that it is the kiss of death for children's writers. I really enjoy reading a story to my kids that rhymes... there's something very organic about it. And considering the fact that I routinely find rhyming books to read, they can't be all that bad. I am currently working on a story that rhymes. Do you know... is there a way to do it without demeaning children or making agents and publishers head for the hills?

Christine: The reason editors say not to rhyme is because they hate rhyming stories that either aren't stories or the writer doesn't understand meter and cadence. The ones I wince at that people have asked me to critique (approve?) are all in iambic. English lends itself well for iambic anyway, so it doesn't take much to get into a sing-songy iambic that grows monotonous quickly. My advice is to study poetry -- meter, cadence, assonance, consonance, etc. I mean really study it. (I've studied poetry into grad school and wrote literary criticisms is probably why I hate to critique it for novices who haven't studied their craft. It's like we can't even speak the same language unless they know the terms.)

Christine: What I advise all children's lit writers who write in rhyme is to take the story out of rhyme and into prose to make sure you have a story arc -- beginning, middle, ending; story problem/goal, obstacles, resolution, organic ending. Then decide if the story is better told in rhyme or prose. When writing poetry, use variety (other than iambic). Aim for lyrical. If you write wonderfully engaging stories in lyrical rhyming poetry, editors will offer contracts.

Christine: As for agents, most don't want to sign PB writers because the percentage is too small. PB writers only get 1/2 the royalties of authors who write books that don't depend on illustrations. Good luck on writing and selling rhyming PBs. You are right, parents and children love them.

Jan: Thanks, Christine. You did a great job and this is going to be a nice "meaty" transcript. I really appreciate you coming to share your brilliance with us!

Christine: Thank you, Jan, for inviting me. And thanks so much to all of you who posted questions and chimed in with comments. I can tell you are all serious about improving your writing. So many of your stories sound intriguing and I can't wait to pick them up and read them in a magazine or from a bookshelf.

Christine: Bonne Chance (good luck) to all of you! And to close, I'll offer this quote: "In defining your own voice, try remembering who you were in high school and before -- before you let other people and other influences define who you were. Allow the inside of your head...your unconscious voice...to speak to you, and I'll bet you'll find an instinctive voice that captures our natural rhythms and attitude." -- Lin Oliver, WHO SHRUNK DANIEL FUNK series