Jan is Jan Fields, moderator of this interview with Dori Chaconas, and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site.

Green shows names or usernames of people and the questions they asked Dori Chaconas.

Jan: Hi, and welcome to open forum. I'm your host/moderator, Jan Fields -- and tonight I have with me one of my favorite picture book authors: Dori Chaconas. If you want to ask a question and be sure Dori gets a chance to see it...you'll need to use either the "ask a question" button on the bar across the middle of your screen. OR type a backslash / followed immediately by the word ask...then space once and type your question. That passes the question to me and I can post it for Dori so that she can answer it for you and in the transcript. Now, let's get going.

Jan: In the 1960s, when their daughters were young, Dori Chaconas wrote for them. She published three picture books and more than fifty stories in children's magazines. In the 70's, her interest turned to yarn embroidery design and she sold designs to major needlework companies and national magazines.

Jan: In 1997, Dori started writing stories again. In the past nine years, she has sold 14 picture books and a series of 3 EZ-To-Read books. She currently works with seven major publishing houses. Her books are written both in prose and in rhyme. She has given workshops at SCBWI conferences, and has published an article on writing in rhyme for The Writer Magazine.

Jan: Welcome, Dori! I'm delighted to have you here tonight.

Dori: Thanks, Jan, for inviting me. It's my pleasure to be here with you all tonight. We're going to have some fun!

Jan: It's great to have Dori with us tonight...she happens to be one of my family's favorite picture book authors. What's your most recent book out?

Dori: CORK AND FUZZ: SHORT AND TALL was released this spring. It's the second in a series of EZ readers. Published by Viking. The third book will be out next spring.

Jan: Didn't CORK AND FUZZ make it to a special list?

Dori: Yes, it made the Chicago Public Library BEST OF THE BEST list. And it's gotten wonderful reviews. I've been fortunate.

Jan: Terrific. We've got some great questions tonight so let's get folks talking...

Dori: Hi, Xu Li. A magazine story has more description... more stage direction. In a picbook, more is left up to the illustrator. Picbooks are usually shorter, too.

Dori: Hi, Caq. Oh, no! That's not true. The only thing editors hate is poor rhyming stories.But just check the bookstores. You'll see a lot of storied in rhyme.

Dori: Certainly, Xu Li. You don't have to meet an editor to sell a story. It helps. It helps the writer know that editors are real human beings. :)And networking is FUN... but not the only way to get published. It's the story that counts.

Jan: Let's talk for a moment about what makes a good rhymer.

Dori: Ohmygosh! I don't think we can cover good rhyming stories in a few minutes. laughing There are three things that make a good rhyming story: Story -- you have to have a good story. Rhythm -- probably the second most important. The rhythm has to suit the story. and the rhythm has to be perfect, even if it's read by a 100 different people. Then rhyme. Rhymes must be true.Rhyming words should be fun, and an adventure.Rhyming word choices should be fresh... not just dog and fog and log but sometimes more challenging rhyming words. You need all three components for a good rhyming story.

Dori: Any theme is good if it's worked in a fresh way.I think the things that turn editors off the most are memoir type stories, someone writing about their favorite pet that died, rr a grandparent, that's written in a personal way.

Jan: I once heard an editor say that if she got one more "death of a pet" story she was going after some puppies.

Dori: And maybe we have a few too many 'monsters under the bed' type stories.But, honestly, anything goes... as long as it's done with a fresh approach.

Jan: Dori's On A Wintry Morning!

Dori: Yes, MINE!!!! Kidding.

Dori: Check out Lisa Wheeler's books. And Margaret Mahy. Just to name two.

Dori: I think you could take that chance, Nancy. I'd write a cover letter instead of a query... and simply say that the story is so short you chose to include it in the envelope. You might even do it with a little humor. It's worth a try.

Dori: Nancy, there are editors who will look at longer stories. I sold three stories to Peachtree and each runs about 1400 words but that's because it took that long to tell the stories. There's a lot of content in those stories and they're meant for older children So, they say... use as many words as it takes to tell the story.

Dori: Mary, I double space my text and start with the title half way down the page. I use a Courier font, or use Times New Roman. What matters is that your manuscript is neat and easy to read. There are no hard and fast rules about formatting. As they say, dont sweat the small stuff.

Dori: Hi, Lily, no, that's not too late. An editor would rather you take your time and do a good revision, rather than rush the ms back. I've heard of writers taking as long as a year before resubmitting the manuscript.

Jan: lilyphenix may be talking about an editor responding to a query, and again...3 weeks is not too long. Editors live by reverse dog years...3 weeks is speedy fast.

Dori: Just be sure to put a note in your cover letter reminding that editor she wanted to see the ms.

Dori: Lily, it depends upon the publisher. It's all over the board... 2 wks to 2 yrs.

Dori: I belonged to an online critque group, one of the members had just acquired an agent, she liked my story ONE LITTLE MOUSE and sent it to her agent. He wanted to represent it, so I said Yes. He sold the story in 2 weeks and two other stories after that. But after several years, I decided to leave him as our methods of communication weren't that great. I sold 15 stories on my own.

Dori: caq, editors adopt that rule to cut down on unsolicited manuscripts but any editor will break that rule if they find a story they can't turn down. That's when you make use of the query letter so it's important to learn to write a good query letter, even if you hate doing so.

Dori: Nidhi, SCBWI puts out some good publications. They can't get a ms published for you but they can help educate you and offer conferences and such for networking. You have to do your homework, unfortunately, There's no magic solution.

Dori: Years and years ago, eggamy. I haven't lately, because I love picture books so much.

Jan: She did write an EXCELLENT article on writing in rhyme for THE WRITER magazine.

Dori: Thanks, Jan.

Dori: lily, it differs. I wrote ON A WINTRY MORNING in a week. I have others I've been working on.... rewriting.... for years.It all depends if my muse is cooperating or not. laughing. Some come all together in my head, and other have to be pulled out word by agonizing word.I personally like the ones that come easy!!

Dori: Hi, Rachel. No, I was totally away from writing for 30 or more years. I only came back to it because my daughter started writing and introduced me to the 'new age' of computers, an online writer's groups, etc. Writing has changed a lot. The competition is much stiffer now. But it's not such a lonely business now, either. 30 years ago there was no SCBWI, no writer friends.Everything done on a typewriter... with carbons!!! Egad!

Dori: All picture books end up with a total of 32 pages. Sometimes there are 250 words on a page... and sometimes 2. You need about 14-16 possible illustrated pages for a picbook. Wordage varies a great deal.

Jan: You don't break out your manuscript page by page though, just type it like any manuscript and let the editors work that out.

Dori: I don't, Jan. Some writers make up dummy books to see where the page turns are. I've never done that.

Jan: But even those who make them for themselves, don't send them. Unless they're illustrators. Rights?

Dori: right... or unless there's some really important reason to show an editor an unusual idea, or something like that...Otherwise, no, don't send a dummy. There's no reason to. If an editor likes a story, she'll have her own vision of the book. To have it all laid out for an editor is almost insulting, as if you're telling her she's not smart enough to figure it out.

Dori: I'm not sure I understand the question. If there are no illustrations, then it's a novel, right? Dora, if you're asking if YOU must supply the illustrations, the answer is no, unless you're a professional illustrator. The publisher will find an illustrator for your book.

Dori: Jarcese, in all fairness, I don't really know anything about them so I can't comment.

Dori: caq, that's correct. A query is NOT an unsolicited manuscript. So even if a publishing house is closed, send a query, but make it good.

Dori: caq, I can't think of one off the top of my head. Check out your local library, for books on writing. Sorry.

Jan: Anastasia Suen's Picture Writing has some stuff on formatting. Her book is one of my favorites.

Dori: No, monica, not necessarily. But it should be a story a child can identify with, something within their realm of experience, or knowledge. The POV can be anyone, Adult or child or talking animal

Dori: Rachel, no -- But I do t hink reading, reading, reading, gives you an edge. Things changed too drastically in 30 years. I had to learn it all over again and catch up on what was being published today.

Dori: Picture books are meant to be read TO a child, so the word choices can be more sophisticated. An EZ book is meant to be read by a child who's just learning to read. The words in the story have to be simple, or easy to sound out. Also, in an EZ book, each line of dialogue needs a tag line... 'he said,' 'she said,' etc. While picture books are read line by line, most children learning to read do it word by word, so lines need to be short, and the story line easy to follow.

Dori: The challenge is to write in this type of stilted language and still make it sound smooth and natural. A good way to pick up on the easy reader language and style is to read lots and lots of easy readers.

Dori: That just about covers it. The context should be age-appropriate. Short sentences -- reading is work for beginners! So the words really need to be simple, or easy to sound out.

Dori: Rachel, as many opportunities as there are in picbooks, or any book. You just need to do it well.

Dori: Lily, I had an editor tell me she was sick of getting stories about dying grandmothers. Plus, editors don't want stories that are didactic, or filled with morals. Even editors want kids to have a chance at just being kids without all the weighty worries,but as I said before there are no bad story ideas if they're done well.

Dori: cheryls, you might be referring to Hi-Lo books. High interest and low reading level. That's a genre onto itself, I'm not very familiar with them, sorry.

Dori: Monica, it's harder to get an agent than it is to get a book published. You have a better chance interesting an agent if your a novelist, but most agents won't handle picbooks. There's not enough money in it for them, and they're in the business to earn a living.

Dori: Sonny, only if you're a professional illustrator. If you have the right training and the right background and are a talented illustrator, then, Yes, the editors will love you. But you really have to be good!

Dori: Lily, I wouldn't. Treat each submission as a 'jewel.' A one of a kind amazing gem. You can always send the other story later, but treat your submission with respect as something you value and don't dilute it with mention of another story. If you treat it shabbily so will the editor.

Dori: With a picbook, the royalties are split between the author and the illustrator -- 5% each. Unless it's a Work-for-Hire, in which case it would be a flat, once-only, fee. With a novel, the writer gets the whole 10%.

Jan: Gonewest also wanted to know about teaming up with a professional editor to present the book together to a publisher. In general, editors don't like working with pre-set writer-illustrator teams, especially with a first-time writer -- do they?

Dori: They don't, Jan. Editors like to choose their own illustrators. But as I said, anything can happen -- if an author and illustrator are great, an editor will probably take both. But if the editor likes only one or the other, then what happens? Is the team willing to split? Will there be hard feelings from the rejected one? Could lead to a whole can of worms.

Dori: We discussed this question on a writers list, and I'll be danged if I can remember the answers! Lets just say, in my humble opinion, there are very, very few (if any) true 'picture story books' out there -- (Sometimes I think someone made up that phrase).

Jan: It's a phrase invented to give us something to call those dreadful wordy books by Disney that have pictures but don't need them.

Dori: If you're into picture books, then concentrate on picture books. Think of the 'picture STORY book' as a dinosaur. It's extinct.

Dori: Sorry, sonny, I'm not familiar with that book. But I suppose if your name is Pegi Dietz Shea you can try anything -- or Stephen King.

Dori: Ok. I'll give it a shot Every story starts with an idea but I've found that not every idea makes a good story. If the idea doesn't really excite me, I can't spend the time trying to develop it. So once a good idea hits (and it can come from anywhere, at anytime) I have to think the whole thing out before I actually start writing it -- I do no-brainer stuff... walking...ironing...painting walls, and let my brain work out the story details (plot...characters... even dialogue). Once the details are worked out in my head, I write the first draft. I PLOW through the first draft.... non-stop until it's all on paper. I don't worry about the details because they're still working themselves out in my head. I don't worry about word counts, because I need all those words to keep the mood of the story going -- just get it down.

Dori: Once the first draft is done, I go over it again and again. I look for boring language. In GOODNIGHT, DEWBERRY BEAR, a little bear thinks he sees an alligator in his closet. Alligator... was too mundane... so I changed it to something more colorful -- a rattle-gator. I want to 'color' the language, so a 'shadow' in his room was changed to "long, dark, monkey fingers." I want to make things SPECIFIC! A puddle becamse a 'rain water puddle," a stone became a 'stone marble.' -- Tape the word 'SPECIFIC' to the top of your computer. Specific details make the story become alive. Make the story fun, even if the message is a serious one.

Dori: It isn't until the end, that I go back and cut, and cut, and cut, and get rid of extra words. There are two ways of cutting wordage. By Chips and by Chunks. When you cut chips... you cut individual words, when you cut chunks, you cut whole scenes or paragraphs. I hope that's enough for now.

Dori: caq, no I don't. When I write, I see a scene playing out in my head, but it's not anything firm.

Dori: Lulu, in my mind there are two distinctly different types of stories. There are plot-type stories, with conflicts, scenes, etc. and there are 'mood' stories, where things just follow a sequence or pattern... such as Owl Moon, or Goodnight Moon. Mood stories are harder to sell.

Dori: Sonja, run! It sounds like they want you to self-publish. I have nothing against self-publishing, but you need a lot of money and a lot of time to do it. Plus, self-published books are hard to market. Most self-publishers I know have boxes of their books sitting in the attic, unsold. Sad.

Dori: dianna... the scenes I see in my head are only there for my own amusement. I'm always nicely surprised by how an illustrator can envision the same scene, and add to it. I've never added an art note to any of my manuscripts. A good editor doesn't need them. Plus, I'm from the old school, the story needs to stand on its own.

Dori: Hi, Oma! I'm not familiar with them, but if I had to take a guess -- I say they'd have to be of 'high interest' to the reader, example... perhaps adventure/camping/sports/etc for boys. for girls....???? maybe boys? ;-)

Jan: Most of the Hi-Lo books I've see were nonfiction -- lots of sports, and lots of biographies.I was approached once to do Hi-Lo as work-for-hire, and they wanted sports biographies. I passed as I know nothing about sports.

Dori: lily, I'd imagine so. Jan could answer that better than I could. I haven't subbed to a mag in 30 years. Jan?

Jan: Most magazine fiction isn't queried. And for children's magazines...probably 90% of the nonfiction isn't queried. For nonfiction for very young children...you usually EITHER send the manuscript or send your resume/samples and wait for an assignment. You hardly ever query.

Dori: lulu, a picture book is generally aimed at ages 2-8. Kids usually like to read about kids their age or slightly older. There are plenty of 'baby' books out there, but they're really for the parents or grandparents...the 'guess how much I love you' kind. Some editor like them, and some don't. I've heard that most board books are written in house, which means by someone in that publishing house...but I can't swear by that. Mostly, you want a child between the ages of 2-8 to be able to identify with the characters and the story and if the parent reader can be charmed as well, all the better.

Dori: lulu, unfortunately I've never been able to pinpoint the difference. I can 'hear' the difference, but I can explain why. I 'think' it's because mag stories have 'stage directions' such as 'He pulled the green hat out of his tiger-striped school bag' while Picture books, in my opinion, are more action oriented and short on description. Lousy answer, I know. But I'm still looking for the perfect answer myself.

Dori: Hi, shari. If a mood story is fresh, different, charming, hasn't been done to death, makes the editor's skin tingle -- that would help it sell.

Dori: dawn, I work with seven different publishers (I think it's seven... I haven't counted lately). I'd love to work with a single publishing house, but one house can't take all the stories I write and if they preferred house rejects a story, I only have two choices -- Ditch the story, or find another house. I don't like to ditch my stories if I can help it so I go to another house. And sometimes a third, or a seventh.

Dori: caq, stage directions are when you describe all the action. EX: He walked in the door and turned on the light. His wife had made a delicious supper, he could tell by the aroma of roast beef that greeted him in the hall. Sans stage directions might be like this: "I'm home!' Sam yelled. "Did you make roast beef again?"

Dori: dawn, I'm not at all fussy. If they're willing to buy the book, they can put as many lines on the page as they dang well please. :) But that's the truth, I'm not being smartsy. I use as many words as it takes to tell a particular story. It's up to the editor to disperse the words across the pages of the book -- sometimes they'll put a hundred words on a page, and in the same book can put 10 words on another page.It all depends on how the editor envisions the scenes, and the flow of the story.

Dori: Yes, dawn! Dang it all, anyway! I just got one yesterday and it doesn't get any easier to swallow. But, you move on.

Dori: Each and every book is my very favorite when it's finally in submission form. I like each book for different reasons. I love the characters in Cork and Fuzz. like the silliness of WHEN COWS COME HOME FOR CHRISTMAS, I love the softness of CHRISTMAS MOUSELING. and I really like the weightier themes of the Peachtree books which aren't out yet.

Dori: Requested revisions have varied from a few words changing to whole ideas, story lines changing. I sent a story to Candlewick, about a baby who wouldn't stop crying because he wanted to go to the fair, but because he couldn't speak no one knew what he wanted, etc. The editor asked me to change the baby character into a young boy. That changed the whole dynamics of the story. But I managed to do it, and Candlewick bought the story, called Hurry Down to Derry Fair.

Dori: dawn, I would if each line could carry a whole page. In ON A WINTRY MORNING, there are only 14 simple verses. It was enough for a picbook with one verse per page, and an illo opposite it.

Jan: And I want to thank you too. You did a fantastic job.

Dori: Is it over? Ha! I can't believe the time is over! My fingers got a workout tonight! But I enjoyed every minute of it!