Rx for Writers

Transcripts

Thursday, August l2, l999

MODERATOR is Kristi Holl, Web Editor for the Institute's web site. Kristi is author of more than twenty juvenile novels and has taught writing at the Institute of Children's Literature for l5 years.

Carol is our guest speaker, Carol Gorman. Carol Gorman has written award-winning fiction and nonfiction, including many mysteries like Chelsey and the Green-Haired Kid, winner of the Ethical Cultural Book Award. Carol also expertly handles humor in fiction, as evidenced by her popular Lizard Flanagan books (The Miraculous Makeover of Lizard Flanagan and Lizard Flanagan: Supermodel??) and her comic/mystery Jennifer-the-Jerk Is Missing. Her latest humor book, Dork in Disguise, is due out this fall.

Names color coded in green are audience members who had questions.

Interviews are scheduled for Thursday evenings: 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

MODERATOR: Good evening! Welcome to our Thursday night online interview with Carol Gorman. I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator and the web editor for this site. Tonight we'll be talking with Carol about "Humor in Fiction." Her books have won many honors: the Ethical Culture Book Award, Recommended Books for the Reluctant Reader, American Booksellers Pick of the Lists, and ALA Children's and Young Adult Choice awards. Carol lives in Iowa with her husband Ed--who is also a full-time writer--and their three cats. Welcome, Carol!

Carol: Thanks, Kristi! It's always good to be among other writers.

MODERATOR: First, let's start at the beginning. When did you start writing, Carol, and when specifically did you begin writing humor?

Carol: I started writing in 1984. The second book I wrote, in '85, was humorous. It sold in 1990.

MODERATOR: Did you grow up reading humor?

Carol: Surprisingly, no. I read Nancy Drew and Madeline L'Engle. I didn't discover humorous children's books until I was grown up!

Sasquatch: Did you keep trying to market that first book for five whole years before you sold it, or did you not send it out right away?

Carol: No, I sent it out. I was like a Walt Disney movie, which at that time wasn't in vogue. After BACK TO THE FUTURE came out, things changed.

MODERATOR: What do you enjoy about writing humorous books?

Carol: The same thing I love about writing any books: characters. I was a theater major, and I love learning about different kinds of people and what makes them tick. If a character is funny, the experience of getting to know them is even more fun! Often I like to reveal character through dialogue. I'll give you an example.

[START] In this scene, Jerry has just arrived for the first day of school. He desperately wants to turn over a new leaf and be cool. He's taken off his glasses a block away from the building, and he can't see anything.

"Why don't you put on your glasses?" Jerry turned to see a girl looking right at him.

"Hunh?" he asked, alarmed. "What do you mean? What glasses?"

"The ones you were wearing this morning," she replied.

"How did you know?"

"You're squinting," she explained, "and you have little dents on either side of your nose. You took your glasses off less than an hour ago. Maybe a half hour."

"I don't like wearing glasses," he said.

"Tell me about it," she said. "They're uncomfortable, they fall down your nose if they don't fit right, and they make you look like a dork." She gazed at him curiously. "Trying to change your image?"

Jerry was astounded. Could this girl read his mind? [END]

Carol: Here's another one that focuses on a relationship between twin girls.

[START] Two girls sat across the table from each other. One was the mirror image of the other. They both had frizzy brown hair that grew wild around their faces like the manes on a couple of lions.

"Hi, Brenda. Sit down," one of the girls said. "We were waiting for you. We want to fill this table with nice people."

"Yeah, no snobs," said the other girl.

"Guys, this is Jerry Flack," Brenda said. "Jerry, this is Kim and Kat Henley."

"Hi," they said in unison.

"I'm the oldest," Kim said.

Kat rolled her eyes. "She always says that. But only by ten minutes."

"It doesn't matter by how much," Kim said. "The fact is, I'm the older sister."

"She's the one with the mole on her cheek," Kat said. "See?"

Now Kim rolled her eyes. "It's not a mole, it's a beauty mark," she said. "All the supermodels have them."

"It looks exactly like the one on my foot," Kat said. "The doctor said it was a mole." [END]

buchholz59: Humor is to soften life's sharp edges. Does it work in the magazine market as well?

Carol: Sure, I would think so, but that's not my area of expertise.

MODERATOR: What do you consider the purpose or importance of humor in children's books?

Carol: We live in a very serious world where cable and network TV has given us constant coverage of murderous rampages, etc. (One dark humorist called it, "All Death...All the Time!") I think humor is necessary to give some balance to all that. I think it's too bad that humor isn't particularly valued in the US the way it is in Europe. My husband Ed thinks it's the Puritanical roots of Americans. If something is funny or gives us pleasure, we figure it isn't worth as much as something serious.

Sasquatch: Is there a place for dark humor in children's literature?

Carol: Oh, yes, I think so. But it's all in how it's handled.

MODERATOR: Are you a naturally funny person who's always cracking jokes or making people laugh?

Carol: NO! I'm not a comedienne! I don't think of one-liners. My humor comes directly from my characters and the situations they encounter. For instance, in DORK IN DISGUISE, Jerry Flack goes to a new school. He desperately wants to be cool, so he's spent the summer studying teen magazines and lurking in teen chat rooms, learning about how to be cool. On the first day, he makes his mother drop him off a block away from school. "Have a good day, kiddo," his mother says. "Thanks." Jerry was glad no one heard his mother call him "kiddo" and he made a mental note never to let his mother near other kids. See? These are not jokes. But I hope it's well-observed.

Christianwriter: Where do you get your inspirations for your stories?

Carol: Well, I get my ideas from everywhere...songs on the radio, articles in the newspaper, conversations I overhear. I had to train myself to pick those ideas out of the air. They're everywhere.

Ducky: Can you learn to think funny? Can you "train" yourself to see humor in the world around you?

Carol:I think you can read, read, read funny books, go to funny movies. That will help a lot. I keep a funny book at my desk and read it before I write. It helps grease the wheels.

Christianwriter: Do you spend a lot of time around children, noticing how they relate to one another?

Carol: Before I wrote DORK, I took three young girls out for French fries and Cokes. WITHOUT THEIR MOTHERS. That was important. They were amazingly open and told me all about the cool kids and dorky kids they knew. And all for the price of fries and Cokes!

Ducky: Are all writers people watchers?

Carol: I think people who love to write characters are!

buchholz59: Is there an age that has seemed, to you, easier to write humor for?

Carol: Well, I always feel more comfortable writing for 8 year olds and up.

Ducky: May I ask why?

Carol: Very young children find other things funny. I guess my sense of humor is about at an 8 year old's level!

Ducky: I have a problem judging ages. Would your characters be about 11 or 12?

Carol: Exactly!

Sasquatch: Do you try to write about gross stuff? (Since kids 8 and up tend to think that's really funny subject matter?) Like bodily functions, etc.?

Carol: I don't. It just doesn't interest me. I think that might appeal to 8 year olds, but also younger. I like social commentary more.

Sasquatch: Is it in bad taste to poke most of the fun at parents or teachers?

Carol: Not especially bad taste, but kids aren't as interested in parents and teachers as they are other kids.

MODERATOR: How do you write humor on the days you don't "feel funny"?

Carol: Well, again, I write funny characters, not jokes. For instance, in DORK, Jerry has a gigantic crush on Cinnamon O'Brien, a gorgeous girl in his class. He makes up a bunch of lies to impress her, telling her he was in a rock band and had written lots of songs. She hints that she wants him to write a song for her. So he writes this poem--he knows NOTHING about music--and gives it to her. She LOVES it. She loves drawing attention to herself. She passes it around to all her girlfriends who laugh at all the mushy parts. We--the readers--laugh out of embarrassment for Jerry. We know he's humiliated, and we're on his side, but it's still funny...and horrible.

Ducky: I have a question about names. Should you use names that they come in contact with every day, or unusual names like Cinnamon?

Carol: I think it depends on the characters. Certain names suit certain personalities.

sweet: What part of Iowa are you from? Is your humor equally accepted elsewhere in the U.S.?

Carol: I'm from Cedar Rapids. I hope it's accepted other places, or I'm in trouble!

MODERATOR: Just a note about her humor: she's won awards and been nominated all over the country with her books, so I think it's well accepted everywhere!

MODERATOR: Can you use humor in serious situations in stories? Or, as Sasquatch emailed earlier, does a serious subplot detract from the appeal of a humorous novel? Should the entire novel be of a comic nature?

Carol: I think this question is hard to answer in the abstract. It depends on what the serious subplot is. How serious? And how it's handled.

Sasquatch: Isn't humor very different overseas (Great Britain, for instance)? Could you expect a humorous novel to do well both here and overseas?

Carol: My JENNIFER-THE-JERK IS MISSING was sold to France. They like to see goofy Americans.

MODERATOR: What subjects can be used in humor novels?

Carol: I think any subject can be written about humorously. For example, I'm reading an adult novel, SHE WALKS THESE HILLS by Sharyn McCrumb. In it, a serious young professor type takes a hiking journey, taking the route that a young girl took to escape her Indian captives in the 1700s. He's very inexperienced about hiking, not at all athletic, so he over packs and tries to carry 50 pounds on his back. It rains, his sleeping bag is soaked. It's a disaster, but it's hilarious because he won't give up. He's so earnest about doing what this young girl did.

MODERATOR: One viewer wrote earlier, when is humor classified as NOT funny? And Ducky asks...

Ducky: Is anything taboo in humor?

Carol: As for taboos, I certainly hope there are taboos. I wouldn't suggest submitting something that pushes that envelope too far.

Ducky: No humor in death for example, or disabilities?

Carol: Not necessarily. Barbara Park handled death masterfully, I thought, in MICK HARTE WAS HERE.

sweet: I realize you are a success and don't mean any disrespect, but people often have different opinions of humor. (e.g. The Three Stooges do not appeal to everyone.)

Carol: Yes! I agree. Humor is in the eye of the beholder. Absolutely. I love the SIMPSONS. Other people might rather see THREE'S COMPANY reruns.

MODERATOR: Please discuss some different kinds of humor (e.g. jokes, slapstick, situation, wordplay, satire, incongruity, surprise, exaggeration, timing, role reversals). What do you use?

Carol: Again, my humor comes from characters being themselves.

MODERATOR: Could you expand on that for our viewers? I understand that your humor comes from your characters, but do your CHARACTERS use exaggeration, or wordplays, or special humorous techniques?

Carol: Well, in JENNIFER THE JERK, we know that Jennifer's been kidnapped. Malcolm keeps telling his babysitter that she's a jerk. But they go after her to rescue her. They risk their lives, creeping into the house where she's held. They steal up the stairs. They get to her and pull down her gag. She says, "Oh, Yuck! Malcolm Wylie, what are you doing here? I was hoping to be rescued by some handsome cop or a federal agent or something." That's an example of surprise.

buchholz59: Do you find yourself using more of one technique, say, overstatement, than something like play-on-words?

Carol: I like satire the most. Social satire, and I like exaggeration and surprise. In a surprise you set up a situation and end it with a gag.

Sasquatch: In a humorous novel, do we still need to find that main conflict that we are told is so important, or is exploring the characters enough to hold interest?

Carol: No, we need a good story to hold the readers' interest. Conflict can be very funny.

Chief: Could there be a situation of too much humor?

LONG PAUSE

MODERATOR: Please hold on. I think we have a technical difficulty here. Until Carol is back, I will try answering a few of the general questions that were posted. . .

Ducky: I understand that children like to read about children slightly older than themselves. Is that right?

MODERATOR: Yes, that is true, the same age or older, so your 8-l2 novel would have a hero about l2 that the whole age group would enjoy reading about.

bernie: What about children's ages? What's funny to a five year old may not be to a twelve year old.

MODERATOR: This is definitely true, as those of you who have children or taught school know. A good child development book can give you lots of hints about those differences.

There are a couple of books on writing humor for different age levels you might find helpful. There's What's So Funny? Wit and Humor in American Children's Literature by Michael Cart and Humor and Children's Development: A Guide to Practical Applications by Paul McGhee.

Ducky: Can you recommend any good books about writing humor?

MODERATOR: There's Comedy Writing Secrets, by Melvin Helitzer. A good one is

How to Write and Sell Your Sense of Humor, by Gene Perret. Also The Art of Comedy Writing, by Arthur Asa Berger. I'm also going to give a plug to an article on writing humor for children that I read in CHILDREN'S WRITER GUIDE TO 1999 called "Age Targeting: Make 'Em Laugh: Humor and Child Development" by Gail Blasser Riley. It has many references you can find on writing humor for various age groups.

Sasquatch: Do humorous novels have a longer or shorter shelf life than other types of novels?

MODERATOR: Humor novels and mysteries both seem to last a long time. The funny books my kids read are still being read (like Judy Blume's Fudge books). Wait . . . I do believe Carol is back. Please stand by!

Carol: Sorry, my computer froze!

buchholz59: I can't seem to write anything serious. How do you balance things so your writing isn't all silliness?

Carol: It all goes back to character and what your characters want. What is s/he willing to do to get it?

JoJoWriter: Do you have any pattern you follow when alternating humor with serious situations?

Carol: No, no pattern. I'm sorry if I can't give you a surefire formula, but there just aren't any. Do what feels right. Read it aloud. Read it to others if you like.

Dee: Is the main character usually more humorous?

Carol: I think, in fact, my other characters tend to be funnier. You know, like in Mary Tyler Moore and Mayberry. The main character is the sane one.

Ducky: I hear a lot of recommendations to read many children's books, but I worry that I might unintentionally rip someone off. Is that a real worry?

Carol: Writers always worry about that! I write something I think is very good, and I think, did I get that from someone else? But keep reading! Reading helps you grow.

MODERATOR: Sasquatch has a question I wondered about too...

Sasquatch: When you read your work aloud to others, is it really necessary to read it to kids? Or if adult/writer friends laugh, should you feel confident that it is truly funny?

Carol: Yes, I think so. Remember, you're actually selling this book to editors. Graduates of Columbia University.

MODERATOR: Good point! How DO you appeal to someone who is 40 as well as someone who is l0?

Carol: I think you write humor for both as much as possible. Remember how Lois Lowry and Judy Blume had certain adult references that kids wouldn't get? Editors, teachers and librarians love those particular lines!

Ducky: My daughter-in-law has a day care; she reads my stories to the kids and tells me how they react. Is this good input or shouldn't I trust it?

Carol: I think that's one valid kind of input. But remember when an adult reads to kids, the presentation and how they love her come in to play.

sweet: I don't feel humor should ever be at the expense of anyone, but children are not always so sensitive. Can you write about it or should you avoid realism?

Carol: I think you need to be realistic. You can use the insensitivity to make a point and to show character.

bernie: Sometimes I feel I'm a little sarcastic when I write something humorous. How do you avoid that?

Carol: I think sarcasm works very well with middle grade on up. I don't know HOW exactly to avoid it other than reread and editing.

MODERATOR: Is it helpful to have your children's librarian point out popular humorous books to study?

Carol: Sure. Maybe she can point out the books that are flying off the shelves.

GO TO PART 2 OF CAROL GORMAN'S INTERVIEW NOW

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