Jan is Jan Fields, moderator of this interview with Ruth McNally Barshaw, and Web Editor of the ICL Web Site. Green shows names or usernames of people and the questions they asked Ruth.

Jan: And...now...it's SHOW TIME...I want to welcome Ruth McNally Barshaw speaking to us about humor. Welcome Ruth!! I'm so glad you could chat with me tonight.

Ruth: It's truly my pleasure. :)

Jan: Right now, folks are seeing your very cutie drawing of yourself...and the cover of Ellie McDoodle. It's on display in the auditorium. Where it's mind controlling folks to rush out and buy Ellie McDoodle Have Pen Will Travel.

Ruth: whoa. That's very cool. Thank you so much. :)

Jan: You're welcome.

Ruth: subliminal messages - buy it now

Jan: So, Ruth, I've read and enjoyed Ellie McDoodle very much. It's an unusual format -- lots of pictures but definitely a novel and not a picture book, but not really a graphic novel. Do they have a name for that style of book or did you invent it? [Nice subliminal, very subtle.]

Ruth: no, there's no name for it - buy it now - my publisher is calling it a graphic novel hybrid - buy it now - For me it's just what I have always done -- a sort of sketch diary. And, thank you very much. :)

Jan: And it looks very much like a kid's sketch diary.

Ruth: good, I was hoping it would! It's supposed to be written by an 11 year old girl, so the art can't be too sophisticated.

Jan: I know you're a "have pen, will travel" kind of gal yourself -- what kinds of trips have you immortalized in your sketchbooks?

Ruth: oh, gosh, well. The first trip I have recorded is a camping trip with my family. Also sketchbooks of (get ready, it's a long list...) Mexico when I was 15, my honeymoon (ahem. It's not what you're thinking), every field trip and camping trip and family reunion from the past 20 years...The only sketchbook I don't have is the one from Las Vegas, because that was stolen out of my daughter's stroller. Every other one I have. Hundreds, we're talking.

Jan: Someone stole your sketchbook??

Ruth: Yes! outrageous, eh? My best souvenir, too.

Jan: What kinda person steals a sketchbook?

Ruth: Well, probably the kind of person who thinks it's actually money. it was stolen at Circus Circus.

Jan: Oh yeah...I've always thought sketchbooks and money look a lot alike. I guess if you steal stuff, you're probably not excessively bright.

Ruth: Yes! That's what I said! Grrrr. we checked every trash can, left notes at all the counters... no luck.

Jan: I'm awfully sorry to hear that...ick.

Ruth: thank you for understanding.

Ruth: laughing, here. hmm. I don't know whether to be flattered or forewarned. ;)

Jan: Well...you might want to watch your sketchbooks if I'm ever around...muwahahahah

Ruth: well, Jan, if you swipe it I will start a new one and draw you swiping it, so you'll go down in history as a swiper. When Bloomsbury gave me copies of my galley they said they expect none of them to end up on Ebay. Stern warning, that was.

Jan: Well...the copy you gave me has ended up vanished into the wild child's room...she'll cough it up only so I can write reviews and such and then it vanishes again.

Ruth: hehehehhee I love that child

Jan: Okay, I'm going to let the audience ask some questions since they're waiting so nicely.

Ruth: -- sitting quietly

Ruth: Well, Omalizzie, I believe humor is indispensible. Therefore it ought to be ubiquitous. Even, yes, in nonfiction. I think humor makes nonfiction less dry. It doesn't have to be slapstick. It can be gentle humor. Real life is nonfiction, right? And real life is funny. Well, some of it is so unfunny that you have to laugh, or you'll cry. So humor spices it up. Humor makes it bearable. Even, I would say, in nonfiction writing.

Jan: Humor is the one thing that I've never seen an editor say they have too much of...period. They all say they'd like to see more.

Ruth: There you go. And boy humor is especially sought after.

Jan: Debby Vetter once told me that she gets letters for Cicada asking if folks couldn't learn their life lessons while having adventures and laughing sometimes.

Ruth: A humorless world is something I don't want to live in even if it's just in a magazine. Here's another example...Nature has a very good sense of humor. Witness the praying mantis. Or the dodo bird. Certainly that's appropriate humor for nonfiction in magazines.

Jan: You mention the need editors have for boy humor. So, what do you think makes "boy humor?" Is it all digestive sounds and gross stuff?

Ruth: hahahah I hope not! Eeek. I think what I meant was, stories about and for boys that are also funny. Digestive sounds and gross stuff does enter into it, though. :x

Jan: Well, I'm not above a little digestive sound myself.

Ruth: hahhaha -- ahem

Ruth: Ah, is there a way to avoid offending someone, Soradina? I think not. I think it's best to write the story that you feel needs to be written, and write it to your sensibility, and if it seems offensive to you, then maybe don't write it. But humor is so personal, that it's guaranteed that some readers just won't *get* what you're saying. And that's ok. Speak to those who do. But, uh, your question asked what to do to avoid writing offensive stuff, so I will add this: Don't deliberately offend (unless that's your style).

Ruth: I think it can be nurtured and caressed and cajoled into being a bigger part of a person's life. As I think of the most humorless people in my life (usually bosses), it occurs to me that even they were funny. So maybe humor appears in all of us at birth but in some it's more suppressed than in others.

Jan: I know there are books that folks consider hysterically funny that I just don't "get." Even though I'm prone to laughing at most things. "Burger Wuss" comes to mind which is supposed to be YA comic genius but just seems sad to me. So...humor is a universal concept but not all humor is funny to everyone.

Ruth: Yes. Humor is universal. And it's absolutely personal as well -- and that's ok. Don't beat yourself up about it. You're secure in your humor, so you don't have to laugh at EVERYthing.

Ruth: by the way, my kids are standing in the doorway of my studio making fun of me at this very moment. Razzing me mercilessly

Jan: And that is why we have children.

Ruth: yes. Children were invented to give me more things to be embarrassed about.

Jan: Without our kids we would get swelled heads from the glamorous life of a writer.

Ruth: oh, gosh, they'll certainly prevent that. But, I get even. I put them in my stories! mwuahahahahha

Ruth: Shoes - good point, Capslock!

Jan: I just threaten to tell the wild child the harrowing story of her birth AGAIN!

Ruth: hahahhahaha! Your kid is little. You will have plenty of opportunity to embarrass her as she grows up. :)

Jan: Yeah...we're getting pictures just for that purpose.

Ruth: oh yes. Document everything.

Ruth: Thinking.... Body humor is still funny to boys that age. Double entendres and dirty jokes. Boys that age are sort of in between the potty humor of little kids and the potty humor of adult men. As compared to girls, well, girls think some of that stuff is funny, at that age, but they're likely to be embarrassed by some of it, whereas the boys just think it's hilarious. But I am no expert. I forgot to run the disclaimer....

Jan: I think humor gets drier around that age too...much of it having to do with the voice of the character and self-depricating humor works too. Like the characters telling on themselves.

Ruth: Sure. Kids that age can step outside of their embarrassed selves and share humor with others, whereas earlier it would have been too difficult.

Jan: Kids like characters who seem able to laugh as much at themselves as they do at things around them.

Ruth: I agree, Jan. And don't we all?

Jan: I hope so...I know if I didn't laugh at myself, I'd be depressed a lot...which reminds me. Humor is important for surviing the writing life too, I think.

Ruth: Absolutely. I laugh at you a lot, too, to keep from getting depressed.

Jan: Thank you...that's so comforting.

Ruth: hehehe

Jan: I'm so glad when I can get good friends to chat with me so I can feel the love :-)

Ruth: smooch. which reminds me -- smooch is a funny word, isn't it? I think the backbone of humor is funny words.

Jan: Okay...back to audience questions...goodness they're racking them up.

Ruth: double entendres are phrases that have two meanings. Usually a dirty (er, sexy) meaning and a straight one. Here's an example, and I hope it's not too racy for this audience...

Jan: This audience normally adores racy -- they do, after all, hang out with me a lot.

Ruth: LOL Jan. A fourth grader (that's age 9 - 10) at camp two weeks ago told me this joke. Why does Peter Pan fly?

Ruth: Answer: If you were a peter and you got hit by a pan, you'd fly too.

Jan: Ouch

Ruth: This is a double entendre...Peter is a euphemism for a part of the male anatomy.

Jan: That is sooooooooo fourth grader humor

Ruth: Yes it is. It's not even that great a joke, but, gosh, those kids sure laughed, telling it.

Jan: We thrived on totally inappropriate jokes in fourth grade. And a lot of them weren't exactly funny.

Ruth: yes! And it paved the way for more sophisticated humor, later.

Jan: Oh yeah...um...my humor is much more sophisticated now.

Ruth: hahahhahahaha -- well, uh. work on that. ok?

Jan: I can only improve. Okay, um...back to the audience.

Ruth: Potty humor, booger jokes, fart jokes, the lowest form of humor. slapstick, vaudeville, sight gags. That's what I'd do for that age.

Jan: That's also the age to start getting plays on words...knock knock starts to be funny and puns.

Ruth: oh yes. Good point.

Jan: My daughter only now gets the Chet Gecko stuff at 7...all the wordplay was too old for her when she was 5 and she had no frame of reference for the noir allusions.

Ruth: Well, they have to experience the world to understand why it's funny -- but I remember the first joke I played on my kids, when they were just babies. When they were drinking from a bottle, I'd put my face on the other end of it and pretend to be sucking from it too, like we were both sucking from the same bottle, top and bottom, and they'd smile and then laugh. We're talking young babies, here. Age 8 months.

Jan: Oh yeah, babies love visual absurdity...and that works all the way up to preschool.

Ruth: I find it amazing that they understand humor when they're so young.

Jan: When the wild thing was just old enough to sit up, she laughed out loud at Blue's Clues because the dog jumped into a paint pot and changed color.

Ruth: Surprise! That's a huge element in humor. Surprise the audience. They laugh.

Jan: Rick Walton says Humor is surprise without threat or promise.

Ruth: Ahh, I like that. I remember teaching my daughter to laugh at a silly puppet when she was a baby. My mother in law was horrified - it was an absurd little frog puppet that squeaked and spit a long tongue out, and at first whenever I made the tongue spit out my daughter blinked and looked scared, but I kept doing it, and laughed while doing it, and showed her that it was funny. Eventually she thought that silly puppet was hilarious. So you CAN teach humor, even to babies.

Jan: Seeing it often enough negated the threat, but not the surprise.

Ruth: Yes. She realized it was safe and predictable, and the noise was funny. It only took a few minutes to get her laughing.

Jan: When my wild child was a preschooler, I brought home Tedd Arnold's PARTS, I thought she would love it because it's silly but she found it scary because the main character was scared. She insisted I not only not read it but put it out of the house completely. Now she thinks it's a hoot.

Ruth: Awww, that's too cute.

Jan: Yeah, it's documented for embarrassing her in her teens...terrified of Tedd Arnold.

Ruth: hahahhahaha. Kids grow into new stages of humor. So do adults.

Ruth: I think the most relevant is every-day humor. Humor that relates to their normal life. School, home, pets, siblings, bullies, friends. Kids love teacher jokes, because it pulls the Big Boss down a few pegs, it's safe, and it's a good outlet for the day's stress.

Jan: Okay...I have a couple questions here about you as a writer...so I'm going to let the audience slide into that for a minute.

Ruth: http://ruthexpress.com I thought ruthmcnallybarshaw.com would be too hard to spell or remember. So it's ruthexpress.

Jan: Why express? You in a hurry?

Ruth: hahha! As a matter of fact, yes! I've been called QuickDraw Barshaw. I draw quickly - I am good at capturing emotions in sketches, so express worked.

Jan: It's a super cute site so y'all be sure to visit when you get a chance. And buy the book.

Ruth: thank youuuu...subliminal mode: buy the book, buy the book...

Ruth: Jamart, I was told that also. I was told that no person is good at both the art and the writing; I was told to get my foot in the door as an illustrator and then the editors would be asking me if I could also write...But an agent found me. She liked my work and signed with me, and sent my first book to three publishers, one at a time, and the first two got very close to buying it. The third bought it. So I didn't have trouble getting both accepted. What I had trouble with was believing in myself.

Ruth: I think if you push yourself to be good at both, and if you're already a working illustrator, so you understand quality, deadlines, reproducibility, design elements, elc., then you can get away with your writing not being quite as strong as your art. But it has to reach a certain threshhold or the editors will want to pair you with someone who can bring up the quality.

Ruth: Tina, I always considered myself to be an illustrator, although I did have a boss and a few teachers tell me my writing was stronger than my art. I took that as an insult. ;) Now, the title I am most proud of is Author. Because it's something I wasn't sure I could ever do.

Ruth: We all draw as little kids, right? Well, when most kids gave up drawing to listen to music, I kept drawing. I drew nonstop. I started working professionally as an illustrator my first year in college. And I am 48. So it's been a few years. When I was little I drew new art to published stories, when I was a teen I drew serious art, in college I tried to switch to cartoony art, (and I remember a professor chiding me, saying, "Ok, fine, you can draw cartoony stuff, but life isn't all cartoons, can't you try drawing something serious??" and since I already had explored serious realism, I felt pretty smug. As a working illustrator I did a combination of the two, realistic and cartoony, depending on the situation, and when my grandpa was dying, 15 years ago, I started sending him comics every day about my family, and thus began drawing comics from life with a pen, with no eraser.

Ruth: In kids books, I worked like crazy to master the picturebook, starting in 2002. I entered a contest, didn't win, but was smitten, and I was a perfectionist so I didn't submit my work very many places. Eventually (2005) I went to an SCBWI conference in NYC, and kept a sketchbook of the entire trip -- about 180 pages -- and put it all on my website, and an agent found me through that. One of her clients had referred her to my site, my sketchbooks, and a public forum where people were urging me to write a kids' book in that sketchbook style. So it was an unusual way to make it into the business.

Jan: Hey, we like unusual stories especially where we get "discovered." Ruth, just sitting on her cyber stool in the drugstore until stardom landed on her.

Ruth: But it took me 30 years to get into that drugstore, to that particular stool. It's truly a rags to riches story. The first advance check saved my house from foreclosure. Please don't tell my family that.

Jan: Then...yay for Ellie McDoodle, she saved the day.

Ruth: she did, indeed.

Jan: Yeah, we often skip over the long time of polishing and learning our craft that went into being prepared to be snatched off the stool in the drugstore.

Ruth: I don't know anyone who worked harder than I did. I know lots of people who worked very hard. But I did also. I analyzed books, I read as many how-to books as I possibly could, I dissected what worked, pushed myself pretty hard, day and night. It was at least a full time job for me. With no paycheck. For about three years. I was an overnight success, over 3 years. :D

Jan: And all the hard work shows in the book...which folks could see...all they have to do is buy the book.

Ruth: Well, thank you, Jan. That book was great fun to write.

Jan: It really is such an unusual book, all kidding aside, I think it's good to read books in unusual formats because the industry is changing all the time.

Ruth: When Bloomsbury bought the book, the format was so new to them that they didn't know how to price it out. It was a surprise at every step in the game.

Jan: You never know which book is going to be a forerunner...and Ruth will still wuv us when she becomes bigger than JK Rowling.

Ruth: hahahhaha! oh, gosh. I will always love you. Even if I make it big.

Jan: I work hard to cultivate these things so eventually someone will mention me on Oprah...oh yes, Oprah, I'da been lost without Jan!

Ruth: Jan, dear, you should be a guest on Oprah. Not merely a mention.

Jan: Oh yeah...I try to keep my dreams clinically acceptable realms.

Ruth: hahahah...not me. I prefer delusions.

Jan: Delusions are fun. Oh...more questions...these folks are just so interested tonight.

Ruth: For inspiration... Yes...I think Bruce Hale and Bruce Coville are very funny. I love Shel Silverstein and Dr. Seuss. There's a funny story called something like, Diary of a Wombat, a picturebook... I'll read anything. I think Dave Barry is hilarious. And I lovvvvvvvvvve Calvin & Hobbes, the comic strip from 15 years ago. Excellent art, tight writing, wry wit. Nice combination. I also watch funny movies whenever I can, And immerse myself in funny talk -- my family is a very good study in humor. My relatives are all pranksters and wordplay people. And I try to be with kids as much as possible, to understand what they find funny. I went to fourth grade camp a couple weeks ago (camping with 63 kids...) and, oh, my gosh, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. And the funniest times were after the kids went to bed and the counselors all met in the dining hall to talk and cool off steam, and we compared stories of kids. One of the teachers did a Fourth Grade Boy imitation that was absolutely hysterical. Of course I captured it all in my sketchbook, and am giving the teachers a copy tomorrow, the last day of school (another 150 page sketchbook... those things are a bear to scan and print, by the way) I had so much fun I want to go back next year. I figure it's good for understanding that age of kid, and what appeals to them.

Jan: One great thing about humor is it's ability to transform what might have been a tense or upsetting moment...when we retell it in a funny way, it slowly changes how we think about it.

Ruth: oh gosh, yessss. We had one incident where a kid had an "accident." This is a 10 year old kid... And the teacher in charge had to handle it, so the teacher came in asking what to do. And I told him, point by point (had to go back to my kids' diaper days for it, ew), and at the end of my monologue, which by the way, the teacher grew sadder and sadder through, I just blurted out, "And you stink!" Everyone roared with laughter. Maybe you had to be there. It was funny because he DID stink, unfortunately, and the rubber gloves on his hands were woefully inadequate. He came back a half hour later, all clean, and in new clothes.

Ruth: And this wasn't the kid -- this was the teacher. I would never tell a kid he stunk.

Ruth: stank?

Jan: stinked

Jan: stinkuth

Ruth: Verily. I didn't feel bad for the kid, because I shared a car with the kid on the way home and he did it again. :x At 10 most kids can control that sort of thing. I was nice to him. But gosh. It was a long ride.

Jan: I can imagine...truly, I can imagine...so thanks for that sensory impression...ew.ew.ew.

Ruth: So, as you said, a tense and upsetting event became very funny, with a little injection of humor. Oh, you are most welcome. Would you like more description? :)

Jan: Only if you want to hear about the time I was crawling through a hedge and put my hand into the guts of a dead possum.

Ruth: yes please. That's a no-brainer. Tell me.

Jan: You are not a well woman...um...it was wiggly. And you really don't want to stir up that kind of smell.

Ruth: hahahhah wiggly?? What about cold? or smelly? how old were you?

Jan: Smell...goodness...that stench crawled up your nose into your brain and started killing brain cells. I was 16.

Ruth: is this why you are how you are now? :)

Jan: Probably.

Ruth: No doubt it aided in your writing ability.

Jan: No doubt...I can certainly talk about decomp in a very um...expressive way if called upon. Surprisingly it doesn't fit into all that many of my stories.

Ruth: What's Beethoven doing now?

Ruth: Decomposing.

Jan: Old joke, but it still make me laugh.

Ruth: Yeah, well, if you want help brainstorming an outlet for that possum I'd be happy to help. That's too good to bury.

Jan: tsk tsk tsk

Ruth: Or you can give me permission to put that into an Ellie book, with her new friend Jan

Jan: Sure, sure...that wild child will finally be impressed by me.

Jan: Okay...back to the questions from the audience ...I think I'm being pelted with fruit for hogging the guest.

Ruth: Sure!! I think it's smart to hold some of your best stuff for your stories and articles and books, but it's a great idea to put your personality out there, and blogging is one of the best ways to do it. Just remember your audience.

Ruth: I don't think humor usually works when it's at the expense of the young characters with a "mom" feel to the narrative.

Ruth: Well, the older the reader, the more risky the writer can be. For younger audiences, we have to be somewhat conscious of their propensity to "try this at home." For older kids, almost anything goes.

Ruth: And, I agree, mom humor is fine for moms but not for kids' books. unless it's hidden well. :)

Jan: I've seen a lot of picture book manuscripts and 'scipts for kid magazines with a "aren't kids so cute?" vibe. kids don't want to read that. BUT.... consider an adult outlet for that. Us old folks love to sigh over how cute and funny kids are. I think you have to kind of think yourself into being a peer of your reader...less of the MOM.

Ruth: For kids' books, yes, absolutely. Put yourself in peer gear:r Wear kid clothes, pop your bubble gum, watch their tv shows and movies, read their magazines. Know what world they live in. It's a bit different from our world.

Jan: Ouch, do I have to?

Ruth: Yes, dear. You have to. If you want to be good at this. OR... maybe you never grew up. In that case, just write from your heart and it'll be fine. :)

Jan: Can I just watch my Buffy the Vampire Slayer reruns?

Ruth: that works.

Ruth: Rain, I would guess that anyone above age 6 gets it.r But it can range younger... One of my recurring jokes with my toddlers was this: They push back from the dinner table saying they're all full, I joke back, "You're AWFUL?" They protest, knowing it's a joke, "No, I'm ALL FULL... And it goes on ad nauseum.

Ruth: Tina, sometimes I still don't know, but what usually happens if it's a great idea is, I get very excited and go into "can't-eat-can't-sleep-gotta-write-this-down" mode. I've proposed probably about 10 story ideas to my agent, and of those, she thought 9 sounded great from the start, but when I actually started sketching them out she only liked half. So I still trip over my ideas.

Ruth: Of course it can be -- and you're perceptive to recognize it. One of the most common bits of advice given to victims of bullies is to deflect the anger with humor. So you're on to something. I think if we wait until they're adults to teach them how to use humor in their daily lives, we've missed a great opportunity.

Ruth: You can, but it's a risk. The publisher might think you want those illustrations, and only those illustrations, to accompany your story. And it is much, much easier for them if they can pair you up with their own illustrator. Trust their judgement on this. I think it's better to sell the manuscript and then mention to the editor that you have a friend in mind, for the illustrations. It won't prevent the sale. And it'll make you look more professional. By that time, the editor is your good friend and is much more willing to consider your ideas for illustrations. Generally speaking, anyway.

Jan: Of course, it helps if the friend is actually an illustrator, not just someone you think draws nicely.

Ruth: oh yes. Don't risk your writing career for someone who can't draw. The other thing is, a professional illustrator knows how to take that manuscript a LOT farther than a beginning illustrator does. They'll add subtext and layering. It will make the book more marketable, ultimately.

Ruth: Sure. At some publishing houses. But not at all. The editor will let you know if he/she is open to suggestion.

Ruth: Sally, it's not recommended except in this one case: If the story has a twist that would not be discernible by simply reading it, then it is acceptable to include just the barest skeleton of illustration suggestions. But if the story stands without suggestions, and all you want to do is enhance the story, then please leave that up to the illustrator. Often editors just toss out the suggestions without even showing the illustrator. And often the illustrator tosses out the suggestions without even reading them. But -- it smacks of unprofessionalism (and distrusting the illustrator) to lead them with suggestions. So if you don't have to, don't do it. :)

Ruth: I don't think my editor (Bloomsbury) would accept a racial slur... On the other hand, I can see it done in a YA book and being acceptable. So age is the important consideration. As in all humor, you have to know your audience. Know what they will think is funny. And as a writer, be prepared to make a stand or back down, when you receive the editor's suggestions. I personally tried to accommodate the editor --s he knows the business and has great ideas, even if it sometimes takes me a while to recognize them. :)

Jan: I've seen that kind of humor sometimes in YA, when used for a purpose...often to do with characterization, not for the purpose of actually being funny.

Ruth: Right. Adding something here...On noncorrect humor: I had a couple references to passing gas in my Ellie book, and they were removed by the editor. I don't know if it was because a certain number of pages had to be trimmed out, or if it was due to the subject matter. Bloomsbury is a tad more literary than some publishers. Maybe they didn't like it. Or maybe they just didn't think it was important enough to save, considering all that needed to be cut to make the book fit their format. Walter the Farting Dog. Everybody Poops. I rest my case. Publishers vary in their tolerance.

Jan: Hmmm...next time I'll start a letter writing campaign for ya...save the poots, save the poots.

Ruth: yeah, poots wanted. will write for poots.

Jan: Oh really...I'm sending my husband to your house for inspiration.

Ruth: hahahahaha Ya know, one of my funniest comics that I can remember doing is my husband, ahem, with a musical note coming out of his rear. And one that always gets laughs at school visits is my son at age 6 looking at a No Parking sign (P with a circle and slash through it) and asking me what it stands for, (this was a comic for my grandpa -- really happened) and I say, It means no parking. And he says, Oh, I thought it meant No Peeing. And I say, yeah, well, they don't want you doing that here either. Kids think that's pretty funny.

Ruth: At a community college, usually 2 years. At a four year college, 4 years. But in real life, an illustrator doesn't really need a degree per se. They just need a great and relevant portfolio. And they should expect to continue learning for the rest of their life.

Ruth: Embarrassment humor, they still like potty jokes and fart humor, but are sometimes more covert about it, word play, sarcasm... you name it. I'm not sure there's a huge difference in what boys and girls find funny. My book is aimed at girls but boys have told me they think it's very funny. Gross out humor is universal. ;)

Jan: A lot of girl humor is relationship oriented too...so part of the humor is the response to it in the group.

Ruth: yes, very good point, Jan! and boys play to an audience, though sometimes girls do also.

Ruth: Surprisingly, they don't, Omalizzie. More commonly they argue over who is the inspiration for Ellie. They take pride in being represented in a book. I hope that never changes. :)

Ruth: hahhahaha! I'd LOVE to! Whaddaya say, Jannie baby?

Jan: That would be fun...of course, the humor might struggle with appropriateness.

Ruth: hahhahahaha No doubt

Jan: Since I don't tend to struggle with it much...I just go for the inappropriate

Ruth: Me too! A match made in Heaven!

Jan: Okay, we're running into overtime..so thank you thank you thank you...you're a peach. And you were so great.

Ruth: Thank you thank you thank YOU, all of you, VERY much!

Ruth: whew, Piper, that's a relief since we made it all up. Thank you, Kate!

Jan: I also want to thank everyone who came tonight...thanks for the great questions. And for coming out...and for buying the book.

Ruth: Thanks for coming, thanks for participating, thanks for laughing, and thank you for inviting me.

Ruth: yeah - buy the book, buy the book or buy the sequel. Whatever. :)

Ruth: LOL Soradina

Ruth: I'm going to post the camp sketches on my website, btw.

Jan: Oh, that'll be fun. I'll watch for them.

Ruth: That's very kind. Thank you, Zebra!

Jan: Okay, I'm gonna let you escape now...nightie night Ruth and thanks.

Ruth: Night Jan :) Thanks again!