Instititute of Children's Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"Writing Biographies of Living People" with Barbara Kramer

Thursday, June 21, 2001

Moderator is Kristi Holl, web editor for this site and author of 24 books and 150+ articles. She also taught writing for children for 15 years.

Barbara is Barbara Kramer, author of 14 books. Barb has biographies published by current figures such as Alice Walker, Toni Morrison, Amy Tan, John Glenn, Sally Ride, Ron Howard, and many more!

Names color coded in blue are viewers who had questions.

Interviews are held on Thursday nights for two hours beginning [9 CANADA/Atlantic], 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

Moderator: Good evening, everyone! We're here tonight with my friend, Barbara Kramer, who is a prolific writer of biographies for children and young adults. Some of her biographies of living people include Ron Howard, Tom Hanks, Tipper Gore, Madeleine Albright, baseball player Ken Griffey Jr., and astronauts Neil Armstrong, Sally Ride, and John Glenn. So glad you could be here tonight, Barb!

Barbara: Thank you. I've been looking forward to this, and "hi" to all of you who "tuned in" tonight.

Moderator: How did you get started writing, Barb?

Barbara: I've always wanted to be a writer, and I got experience by writing for our church newsletter and local publications. That gave me clippings which I used to get a job writing for an advertising agency. Much of the writing I did for the agency was profiles of business people for their company publications. That gave me confidence to try writing a biography.

Moderator: Why are many biographers reluctant to write about living people?

Barbara: The biggest concern is that a person you wrote about won't like what you wrote and might sue you. Another concern is that you don't know what people are going to do next. If they get into serious trouble after your book comes out, you won't sell a lot of books. If the publisher pays royalties, you won't earn much on the book.

SaraJ: Have you ever had someone get into trouble and ruin your book's sales?

Barbara: Not so far. But I try to write about people that have good character.

Moderator: I'm sure that helps! What do you find most difficult in writing about living people?

Barbara: The biggest problem for me is how to end the book. It's not such a problem for people like Neil Armstrong or Sally Ride, who had their time in the spotlight several years ago and have lived quiet lives since then. It's trickier for people like Ron Howard or Tom Hanks, who are still very active in their careers.

SaraJ: How long is it before a book comes out after you're finished with it? How much time in their lives might have elapsed?

Barbara: The book usually comes out about a year after I submit the manuscript.

AnneKelly: Do you have to get your subject's permission?

Barbara: Not if they are famous. Once they achieve celebrity status, anyone can write about them.

SaraJ: How do you decide if they're famous enough to be part of the public domain, so to speak? What if they're not famous?

Barbara: The publisher is the one who makes that decision. Of course, they want the person to be famous so that there's more interest in the book.

AnneKelly: Do you ever write an "afterward" in your book that can quickly be added just before publication (in case a big event happens in your subject's life)?

Barbara: No, Anne, my publisher doesn't do that. However, sometimes they save room so that I can add on to the last chapter before they go to print.

Moderator: Do you worry that the person you write about will read your book and get upset about something you've written?

Barbara: I did when I first started, but I don't anymore because I'm confident with my research. I use a lot of sources and I keep careful records of my sources so I can back up what I've written. Many publishers also have fact checkers. Knowing that someone is checking my information is comforting.

martys: You wrote about Ken Griffey Jr.'s attempted suicide. Did this cause concern before or after publication?

Barbara: No, because he had spoken out about it himself. There might have been concern if he hadn't talked about it.

Moderator: Have you met the people you've written about? Have any of the people you've written about agreed to an interview?

Barbara: I've never met any of them, but I do write to them letting them know that I'm writing a book about them. My purpose in doing that is that I'm always hoping to snag an interview. So in my letter, I also mention that I would like to interview them either by mail or over the phone.

Moderator: How do you contact famous people? What would be the best way for us to do it too? Do you go through their agents?

Barbara: Yes. I never try to contact them directly because then I would just be a fan competing with thousands of other fans for the celebrity's attention. For actors and writers, I contact their agents. Sports stars can be reached through the public relations person for their team. For people such as Tipper Gore and Madeleine Albright, I contact the person who is in charge of requests from the media in their offices.

SaraJ: How do you know who their agents are? Or the public relations person's name or phone number?

Barbara: I usually find the agent's name in my research. For addresses for the public relations people, I sometimes use the Internet.

Moderator: If someone agrees to an interview, how should the writer handle it? I'd be excited--yet terrified--to interview someone famous!

Barbara: Give them a choice of being interviewed either by phone or mail. Show consideration for their time by putting together a list of only three or four questions to ask them. The questions should be directed to getting answers that aren't available anywhere else. Remember, these people have been interviewed numerous times by various publications. You don't want to alienate them by asking a question they already answered a dozen times for other publications.

Moderator: Have any of the people you've written about tried to stop you from writing the book?

Barbara: No. They don't get too concerned when you tell them that you're writing a children's book. I think they realize that you're just trying to tell kids about their lives and not attempting some kind of character assassination.

AnneKelly: Since you're only asking a few questions, should you try and get information you couldn't get from your research?

Barbara: Yes. For that reason, I wouldn't do an interview until I had already done a lot of research.

AnneKelly: Do you have to say the biography is unauthorized if you don't get the subject's permission?

Barbara: No. All my books are "unauthorized," but none of them say that anywhere on the book.

Moderator: Do you try to only write about the positive aspects of a person's life?

Barbara: No, because I want kids to know that the people I write about have made mistakes. Hopefully, that will help them understand that making a mistake does not mean they are a failure.

Moderator: If you write truthfully about the negative aspects, can you still get sued? How can you avoid legal problems and still be truthful?

Barbara: You can't write anything libelous. The way to avoid that is to be able to back up what you've written with reliable sources.

AnneKelly: What ages are your books geared to?

Barbara: Most of them are young adult for ages 12 and up, but I have written some for the reluctant reader at about the fifth grade level.

Mom of 3: Where do you do your interviews: your home, their home, a restaurant?

Barbara: I can't afford to travel to where they are because I don't make that much money on the books I write. If I get an interview, it would have to be by mail or over the phone.

Moderator: How do you do your research?

Barbara: I start with general materials. This includes books written about that person, if there are any. I use these books just to put together a timeline of the person's life. If the books contain footnotes and/or a bibliography, then I look up their sources. Another good source for general information is Current Biography. This is a reference publication with short biographies of current people. Biography Today is very similar to Current Biography, except that it is written for young people. These publications list their references and I look up the sources they used. Famous people have been interviewed numerous times in magazines and newspapers. My job is to find those interviews.

Blue Phantom: What have you found to be some of your more reliable sources for researching a celebrity?

Barbara: The list is long, but some examples are People, Biography Magazine, Life, and The New York Times Magazine. Just avoid some of these "tell all" publications.

Tweaker: About how many sources--book, magazine, etc.--might you use, Barbara, for a "typical" biography?

Barbara: The more the better. About 150 sources is average for me. I used over 250 sources for my biography about Ron Howard.

AnneKelly: Do you use a database to keep track of all your info?

Barbara: No. I have a very old-fashioned system. I use 4x6 inch index cards. I make a source card for each source. Then I give each source a number. Then I take notes covering one topic on each index card. In the left-hand corner, I write the number of the source so I know where I got the material.

martys: Are your quotes from personal interviews or other sources? If you use a previously published article, do you have to get permission?

Barbara: I haven't been able to get any personal interviews, so I use other sources. You can use short quotes without getting permission from the publisher.

Moderator: How do you find magazine articles?

Barbara: One way is to use The Reader's Guide. Since it is published annually and lists articles written about a particular subject during the previous year, I need to check The Reader's Guide for each year starting with when the person I'm writing about first achieved national attention. Our library also has Infotrac, a computerized listing of articles published since 1980. The difference between that and The Reader's Guide is that with Infotrac, I can type in a subject's name and it will bring up a list of all the articles written about that person since 1980. Sometimes the text of the articles is included. A similar source for other libraries is ERIC.

Moderator: How do you find newspaper articles?

Barbara: Our library has indexes for The New York Times. Back copies of the newspaper are on microfilm. A nearby university library has indexes and microfilm for several major newspapers. They also have a reference called Newsbank. This is like a giant clipping file for newspapers all over the United States. It has an index and the articles are available on microfiche.

Moderator: Do you do any of your research on the Internet?

Barbara: Yes. This is one of the general sources I use when I'm putting together a timeline, but I only use authoritative sites that will most likely be around years after the book is published. Good choices are government and university sites.

csfreds: Although the emphasis tonight is about living people's biographies, I wonder if many of these same techniques wouldn't work with historical (or recently dead) people?

Barbara: You're right that you can use the same techniques with historical people. In fact, I just finished a historical biography and I'm working on another. But not all libraries keep magazines dating back as far as you might need. University libraries are more likely to have this kind of material.

Moderator: How do you organize all this research material? Just the 4X6 cards you mentioned?

Barbara: Yes. I usually use colored index cards as source cards so that they don't get mixed in with my note cards. For notes I have an index box with a divider for each chapter. As I take notes, I file the card in the chapter where I think it will go. When I'm getting ready to write a chapter, I can arrange the note cards in the order that the information will appear in the chapter.

Moderator: Do you begin writing before you finish your research?

Barbara: I do because I get anxious to start. The writing also brings up questions that I need to answer through more research.

Blue Phantom: How long does it usually take you to write a biography from beginning to end?

Barbara: That's a hard one to answer, Blue Phantom. I usually allow about eight or nine months from the time I submit an outline until I submit the manuscript. However, there is a lot of overlapping of books. While I'm writing one book, I might have to rewrite another one and work on an outline for a new book. So even though I allow that much time for a book, I'm not always using that time to work on it.

AnneKelly: Is it confusing to do research on one biography while working on another?

Barbara: Yes. When I get down to the final rewrite of the biography I'm working on, I have to set everything else aside and concentrate on only that book.

Moderator: Do you use a detailed outline? A general one?

Barbara: I use a very detailed outline. It's hard when I'm putting it together, but I'm happy to have that detail when I start writing.

Moderator: How does a writer break into writing biographies?

Barbara: Many biographies are part of a series. The best way to break in is to send the publisher a proposal for an existing series.

Moderator: What needs to go into such a proposal?

Barbara: I send a first chapter and an outline of the rest of the book. Your proposal should match the other books in the series. That means that it should have the same number of chapters as other books in the series. Also, notice how other books in the series start. Some publishers like the books to start at the beginning of the person's life and proceed chronologically. Others like a chapter that highlights an important event in the person's life to start the book. Then chapter two starts with the person's birth and continues chronologically.

ocam2: About how many pages long is the outline you send?

Barbara: Since my outlines are detailed, they usually run about ten to twelve pages. Some publishers don't expect that much detail. The main thing is that you include the main things about that person that you intend to use in the book.

martys: At the beginning of your writing career did you generally submit query letters to publishers, or the completed manuscripts?

Barbara: I sent the first chapter and the outline. For a short book you could send the whole manuscript.

martys: When you submit a manuscript, do you include a bibliography?

Barbara: That depends on the publisher. Enslow Publishers does most of my books and they are most concerned about the material I use for footnotes. However, I think they are now requiring bibliographies from new writers for them.

AnneKelly: Do the biographies now get assigned to you by your publisher?

Barbara: I submit ideas to them, but if they can't use my ideas, they suggest others.

ocam2: Do you now have a commitment by a publisher before you write a book? If so, at what point in your career did this change take place?

Barbara: Yes, I have a commitment and I have even from the first book because I don't want to go to a lot of work researching a book if I don't have that commitment. With the first three or four books, I did have to send a chapter and outline.

Blue Phantom: What was your first book to be accepted for publication?

Barbara: Alice Walker: Author of The Color Purple.

bernie: What about permissions and interviews?

Barbara: I haven't been able to get interviews, and you don't have to have permission to quote from published sources as long as you don't quote too much from that source.

Moderator: How do you keep everything organized when you're working on more than one book at a time? I think of ALL those index cards!!!

Barbara: I have a large plastic tote for each book. I put everything I have for one book into the tote. When I'm ready to work on that book, I have everything I need altogether.

Moderator: Do you ever make up dialogue when writing the biography?

Barbara: No. My publisher doesn't allow that. I always use actual quotes that I've found in my research.

AnneKelly: Do you keep your research cards after the project is through?

Barbara: So far, I've kept all my research for every book just in case my publisher might want a second edition some day. Since I usually photocopy articles etc. that I use, this is getting to be quite a collection.

Tweaker: What do you see as the "hottest" category of biographies today? Sports stars? Movie actors? Politicians?

Barbara: They are all very popular. I don't think I could pick a particular category. The main thing is to choose people in an area that you really enjoy.

Moderator: Is there a limit on how much you can quote from one particular source?

Barbara: Yes. A good general rule is to not use more than 250 words from a book. Anything more than that is copyright infringement. You can use even less from magazines or newspapers because they are shorter -- no more than 100 words from an average length magazine article or 50 words from a newspaper article. Also, for kids' books, it's best to use short punchy quotes, rather than long ones.

Moderator: Is there a limit to how much paraphrasing you can do?

Barbara: Yes. The same general rule applies to paraphrasing because copyright laws protect an author's ideas as well as their words. You can't take an adult biography about someone and condense it down to a children's biography.

Moderator: Do you also do the photo research for your books? (And do you have to pay for the photos?)

Barbara: I've done the photo research for all but three of the books I've written. Some publishers pay a small photo allowance. My publisher doesn't. I pay for the photos out of my advance.

ocam2: What about photographs and illustrations? Do you have to furnish sources even if you don't buy them?

Barbara: I haven't had to work with illustrations, but I think the publisher would handle these. Some publishers ask you for ideas about where to get photos even if they do the actual acquiring of them.

bernie: How many photos are there per book in the series you work on?

Barbara: Twenty black and white photos for the inside pages and a color photo for the cover.

bernie: Do you include a photo bibliography for the photos you include?

Barbara: Something similar. For photos, I submit a list of where I got each photo. This is called the photo credits.

Moderator: How do you actually find photos? What's the process?

Barbara: I start with the most inexpensive sources. This usually includes universities that the person attended and historical societies in areas they have lived. Sometimes these sources will let you have the photo for the cost of processing because it gives them publicity. I also check the photo credits for photos found in sources that I use in my research and contact the same places. There are also photo archives, but they can be very expensive. For celebrities I have to get at least some photos from archives. In that case, it's a good idea to do some comparison shopping because prices can vary widely.

Moderator: How do you choose someone to write about?

Barbara: The most important consideration is that I have to like the person -- a lot. Researching and writing a biography takes several months. I wouldn't spend that much time on someone I didn't like or have some interest in.

Moderator: If there are several biographies about someone already, should you choose another topic?

Barbara: Not if you feel that you can add something new about that person or have a different approach with your book.

Moderator: If there are NO biographies about someone, does that always mean s/he would be a great topic?

Barbara: No. It could be that there is not a lot of interest in that person.

SaraJ: How can you tell which it is?

Barbara: The publisher decides that.

Moderator: Are there any people who you shouldn't consider as a possible topic?

Barbara: It's best to avoid "hot" new stars. In any bookstore, you can find several paperback biographies about people such as Ricky Martin and Britney Spears. However, these books are usually put together quickly by publishers who rely on authors that they've worked with previously, authors who are good at writing fast. If you don't have this type of experience, it's better to write about people who have been around for a while.

AnneKelly: Have you ever refused an assignment because you didn't like the person's character?

Barbara: If my editor suggests ideas, she usually gives me a choice of several people. That way I can avoid writing about a person in a way that's not too obvious.

martys: Is it standard courtesy to send a copy of the biography to the subject?

Barbara: It's actually a bad idea because they may find something about it they don't like.

Blue Phantom: What would be your first piece of advice for someone wanting to begin a biography on a VIP?

Barbara: I would focus first on the proposal. Do enough research that you have a good idea about events in that person's life and so that you can write that first chapter.

AnneKelly: Can you make a living writing children's biographies?

Barbara: Some people make a very good living writing them, but they do a LOT of writing. I make a good second income.

SaraJ: What was your favorite biography to write?

Barbara: This sounds like that trite saying that you always hear and that is "the one I'm working on." However, it is true. I always enjoy the biography while I'm working on it, but I'm always happy to put it to bed and move on to the next one.

Moderator: I'm sorry to have to interrupt now, but we're out of time already. Barb, thanks so much for coming tonight and sharing your "insider information" on writing about famous living people. I'm sure that this has inspired some of our chatters to try biographies of people who fascinate them. We appreciate your time tonight!

Barbara: This was fun. I hope that I've given you all some ideas that you can use in your own writing.

Moderator: Thanks for the great questions, everyone. I've learned a lot myself tonight! See you all back here in two weeks. Good night now!

Return to Transcripts

93 Long Ridge Road, West Redding, CT 06896
Phone: (203) 792-8600 (800) 243-9645
Fax: (203) 792-8406
E-Mail: WebEditor@institutechildrenslit.com

Copyright � The Institute, Inc., 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
No part of the electronic transmission to which this notice is appended may be reproduced or redistributed in any form or manner without the express written permission of The Institute, Inc.