Institute Childrens Literature

Rx for Writers

Transcripts

"To Specialize or Not to Specialize" with Joan Hiatt Harlow

Thursday, June l0, l999

MODERATOR is Kristi Holl, Web editor for the Institute's web site. Kristi is author of more than twenty juvenile novels and has taught writing at the Institute of Children's Literature for l5 years.

Joan is our guest speaker, Joan Hiatt Harlow, author of dozens of stories, articles, poems, novels and picture books.

Names color coded in green are audience members who had questions.

Interviews are scheduled for Thursday evenings: 8 Eastern, 7 Central, 6 Mountain, and 5 Pacific.

MODERATOR: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to our Thursday night online interview. I'm Kristi Holl, your moderator and the web editor for this site. Tonight we'll be talking with Joan Hiatt Harlow, the prolific writer of dozens of stories, articles, poems, novels and picture books which have appeared throughout North America and Europe.

Her writer's curiosity has taken her into subjects like graphology, and led her to people around the world. Tonight Joan's topic is "To Specialize or Not to Specialize." Let's welcome Joan Hiatt Harlow!

Joan: Good evening, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here tonight speaking to from beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. Writing for children is my favorite topic of conversation. So I'll welcome all your questions.

MODERATOR: Joan, first tell us some of the PLUSES of writing in so many genres.

Joan: It's fun for me to write in different genres. But there are two sides to the coin. Once you have a success, why not capitalize on it? I know one writer who some problems selling fiction. She found an editor who was looking for nonfiction on BEARS. So this writer wrote a ms. about a grizzly bear (I think it was a grizzly) and they made a book from it. Then she did another one for them on the black bear; this led to the polar bear, etc. So I believe she has about five books out there now just about bears. On the other hand, some writers might feel that sticking with one genre might be boring. and they would rather spread their wings. So choices are important. Each writer must make their own choices. What works for one person, might not work for another.

MODERATOR: What are some MINUSES of writing in different genres?

Joan: Taking chances that someone will or will not like the new genre. It's almost like starting over each time. And the editors that took your first stories or articles, might not be interested in the new genre. So you have to know markets, and begin again for a different genre.

MODERATOR: Have you ever NOT been able to sell in a particular genre?

Joan: Right now I'm trying to sell three YA mystery novels, and while I've had lots of great reviews and critiques, and comments from editors, I've had no sales in this genre. However, I've had such fun writing them, it's an adventure in itself. I do hope to sell them, naturally. It might be the market as YA is more difficult to sell.

MODERATOR: Are all genres equally easy for you to sell to, of the ones you've published?

Joan: Each time I try a new genre it can be as difficult as starting all over. But one advantage is that once you are published, it's easier because you have writing credits and editors are more likely to look at your ms.

Dee: Writing for many genres: does that enable you to NOT be labeled? And is that a good thing?

Joan: Sometimes it's a good thing. I don't think I'm "labeled" since I write in so many genres.

MODERATOR: Can everyone write in various genres if they just tried hard?

Joan: No. A dear friend of mine who wrote Gothic mysteries for adults and was well known in her genre (she has since passed away) told me that she went to college with Margaret Wise Brown (author of Good Night Moon) and she and Ms. Brown often talked about genres. My friend told me (and Margaret W.B.) that she could "never write for children. It's too difficult." I've used this quote in several talks or whenever people say, "When are you going to move up to writing for adults?" This is a comment that gets under my skin. When people say this they don't understand that writing for children is a genre and takes specific talents and disciplines. Actually some of my students who write great nonfiction have problems with fiction. I try to encourage them in their obvious talent and work on their fiction until they've come up with something really marketable. Meanwhile they'll be getting some publishing credits with NF.

Steve: Is there anything good about being "labeled" as a certain type of writer?

Joan: Well, yes, at least with editors who are looking for that particular genre.

MODERATOR: I imagine being known as a certain type of writer could get you some assignments you might not otherwise get too. . . Joan, how DID you get started writing?

Joan: When I first started to write professionally in 1978, it was a daring leap of faith. I had no mentors, knowledge of where to go with my ideas or manuscripts, and probably did everything wrong. I love backyard astronomy and would often give stargazing parties for my children and their friends -- as well as middle-of-the-night get-togethers with grownups who, because of my enthusiasm, got "into the spirit of the thing." So it was natural for my first professional piece to be about something I knew. I decided to share this fun activity and wrote an article on "August Fireworks" based on the Perseids Meteor Shower. It was full of enthusiasm, fun, science. And it was immediately accepted by RANGER RICK!

Dee: Did you stick to one genre when you were first starting out?

Joan: Not exactly, because I tried other types of stories for other age levels and other magazines.

Debbie: How long was it before you got something published?

Joan: As I said, RANGER RICK bought my very first submission. But this spoiled me a little. I thought "Wow, this is a snap." WRONG! I was in for some surprises!

MODERATOR: You have five children; were they instrumental in your writing for children?

Joan: Yes, and because there was 16 years between the oldest and the youngest, it helped me choose topics appropriate to various ages.

MODERATOR: How so?

Joan: Well, I wrote a picture book for my youngest child, which was sold to DOUBLEDAY. Then I wrote a middle-grade story for boys for CHILDREN'S DIGEST. Different age levels, different styles, topics, etc.

Laurie: I have trouble getting across to family and friends that need writing time. I think they don't feel I am serious about my writing. Did you go through the same thing?

Joan: Yes. If you were working in an office, people would know you're working. But when you work at home, somehow they don't think you're working. Or, what I hated when I first started was when relatives smiled kindly and looked at each other as if to say, "Isn't this cute. She wants to be a writer." Yes, I wanted to be a writer, and why not let me be a writer! (See? I still get hot under the collar when I think about it.) But you can't let other people get in your way. They will be among the first to say, "See I knew she could do it."

MODERATOR: Oddly enough, convincing your family often comes down to convincing YOURSELF that what you're doing is important. Once you really do that, your family seems to take their cue from you. At least my four kids and husband did.

Rebecca: Did your children help to influence the topics you chose to write about? Did they help to suggest what kind of stories they would like to hear?

Joan: Not really. I just did what I felt good about. They actually weren't that interested when they were young. People would say, "Is your mother the writer?" And they'd think about it and say, "Uhm. yeah."

Inapickle: Hi. Once you got published did others' attitudes change about your working at home?

Joan: Yes. They finally believe I am a writer after all!

brandy: Let's go back to the surprises after your quick acceptance of your first article.

Joan: I sold quite a few good stories. Now here's something interesting. I never took a course in writing, but I knew I should. I didn't know a lot of things. There must have been some talent and ability, but I felt like I was lost in a forest. So I decided to take the course with ICL. And I learned a lot. But the funny thing is, that when I opened my first package of books, and saw the 1989 CMM (Children's Magazine Market) there was an article in there by the editor of CHILD LIFE. She quoted a story that she felt was written by someone who "knew what kids and editors like." IT WAS MY STORY!!!

MODERATOR: Neat!

Rebecca: I was asked by a coworker if I went to college and I told him not exactly, and told him about the Institute and got the same reaction. He said, well what is that going to accomplish? I'm determined to show him just how much I can accomplish....I got a poem published and the feeling was wonderful, so I guess if all I accomplish is self-satisfaction, that's enough for me

Debbie: Joan, I'm one of your newest students, and I'm still scared to death. Is that normal?

Joan: Oh, Debbie, I'm so glad you're here. Don't be scared to death. Scared is okay. And I'll hold your hand. Have fun and don't feel you're alone. We're all here to help you. I still get nervous when I send out a ms. It's natural.

MODERATOR: I've read that you developed "a severe case of writer's eye" that had taken you to extraordinary places. Can you tell us some of those places?

Joan: Doing research on various subjects is fun. I've been on dogsleds, in bat-filled caves, inside seal-feeding pens at aquariums (where a seal chewed on my sneakers.) I've been on whale watches, bird watches to see puffins, etc. Who said research was dull?

MODERATOR: How did you go about finding someone to take you on a dogsled, or get inside a seal-feeding pen?

Joan: I found the dogsled races advertised in a Boston paper; then took my children up to Vermont to watch them. I zeroed in on a family to use for the article. They were happy to give me information, and a ride as well. (We capsized, by the way!) That article was also published by RANGER RICK. I requested the Boston Aquarium people to see the feeding process and they said, "Come on in!"

MODERATOR: You really touched some hearts on a previous question, and I'm going to back up a minute and take a couple viewer comments.

Rebecca: You know I don't even know whether or not to submit any of my work yet. I won't even show my husband my stories. I can take criticism from a teacher, but I'm so scared of what he'll say. Am I the only one who feels that way?

Joan: Sometimes it's hard to show your writing to people who are close to us. Rejection from them might be harder to take, because it becomes personal.

MODERATOR: After the interview, I hope you all will check out the encouraging articles in the Writer's Support Room in this site.

Laurie: I am more scared the farther I get into the course. I am on Assignment 8 now.

Joan: Perhaps you feel you're about to actually enter the publishing world, and you feel like you're going to be on your own, perhaps as if suddenly "on stage" and you're not totally confident. That's when it's good to have a good group who will give you encouragement and critique, and motivation, and friendship and a shoulder to cry on now and then.

Kim: Does receiving rejection slips ever get easier, or don't you get them anymore?

Joan: Don't I wish it! I get rejections regularly. It's part of this writing profession. But as I always tell my students "professional writers are only amateurs who would not quit."

MODERATOR: Here are a few more comments before we go on . . .

Debbie: I think I'm glad that no one here at home has asked to read any of my stories yet. But when it's you Joan, I don't mind you reading them.

Rebecca: I'm just scared that I'm going to finish the course and then have nothing to show for it, and only because I'm not sure what is and isn't good enough to submit.

Joan: Sometimes I get really DOWN and we could all tell horror stories about rejections.

Laurie: I think you are right, Joan. I recently sent something to Highlights and was just flustered getting the manuscript package together.

MODERATOR: Okay! Great comments! Now back to the question earlier . . .

Kim: Is it difficult to get an interview, or something like the dogsled ride if you aren't already an established writer?

Joan: No, because people love to talk about what they love. And you, as a writer are showing interest in them. They are HAPPY to share this with you.

Laurie: Did you get special attention when you told them you were writing an article?

Joan: Oh, yes. They were thrilled. Everyone bends over backwards to help you.

MODERATOR: Although you write fiction and nonfiction in many genres, do you see any common threads in your writing?

Joan: As I look over my published works there's a definite slant towards science and astronomy over the years.

MODERATOR: Besides "Midnight Fireworks," what other articles have used your interest in astronomy?

Joan: Other science articles included: "Curtain Going Up" about the aurora borealis for CHILD LIFE. Another article for CHILD LIFE was "The Mystery at Mystery Hill" which is a site in New Hampshire similar to STONEHENGE and has an astronomical stone calendar dating back to prehistoric times.

MODERATOR: Did you ever use your astronomy in fiction?

Joan: "Adam'sDancing Ghosts" is fiction -- about a boy who sees the Aurora Borealis for the first time. It was published twice by CHICKADEE and also included in a Canadian school book. My picture book, SHADOW BEAR, although it's fiction, also explains about shadows in certain seasons, and in fact the text was purchased for one-time use for a teachers' book on how to teach about shadows. In April of this year the editor of YOUR BIG BACKYARD called me to say my story "The Wishing Sky" has been scheduled for their August issue -- and that is another meteor shower story for younger children. A full length mystery that I am trying to sell at this time is about a girl who is an astronomer. And in my new book STAR IN THE STORM (Wow! "Star" appears in the title) the wonderful Newfoundland dog is named SIRIUS. (From the constellation of the Great Dog.)

MODERATOR: Wow! That's quite a list! We have quite a number of questions about research and interviews, so let's take a few of those . . .

Dee: How much research do you do before interviewing someone?

Joan: I feel I need to know the subject in order to ask pertinent questions. So I do quite a bit of research first.

MODERATOR: How much is quite a bit?

Joan: It depends upon the subject and whether it's fiction or nonfiction. And who I'm interviewing.

Laurie: I'm planning on taking a Richard Simmons cruise next year and plan to write about the cruise. I, of course, plan to talk to Richard, but how would I go about interviewing the staff?

Joan: You could ask various people personally when you are there. (Sounds great!) Did you write to Richard Simmons yet?

Laurie: Yes, I have e-mailed and snail mailed him. I don't have anything pinned down, but if you know anything about him, he is open to a chat. On his cruises, he says he wants to meet everyone eye to eye. It will take a while before I get a response as he is covered in mail.

Kim: Are the trips you take for your research considered tax deductible?

Joan: Yes, because I am published. I'm not sure just how this works if you're a beginning writer. I believe you have to show you are submitting professionally. But I don't know all the implications of taxes. Because I do make money with my writing, and because it is a business with expenses, etc. I am able to deduct certain expenses. But I wouldn't want to give you advice on this. I'm not a tax person, and it's something each person would have to figure out themselves or with a tax professional.

MODERATOR: Ask your tax man for sure, but it used to be if you kept records of your trip and kept records of your research notes and the stories/articles that came from that research, you could deduct it. But check it out with a tax man. It changes a lot sometimes from year to year.

MODERATOR: Here a few more general questions for you too . ..

CELIA: Do you have some days you write well and others are Blah!?

Joan: Yes. Sometimes I'm in no mood and look for excuses not to write, but I'm happiest when I'm "in the zone."

shaindy: Before you write do you know exactly what you are going to write or do you write and then see what was written?

Joan: I have ideas and try them in various ways. Sometimes I have to write quite a bit before I can really know where I'm going.

Debbie: Joan, do you completely finish one story before starting on another one?

Joan: That seems to be the way I work. But I know other writers who switch from one thing to another so they don't get bored. However, I did write a fantasy this winter while in the midst of working on my new historical novel. And it was truly refreshing.

Debbie: How long does it generally take for you to write a short story?

Joan: It depends on how much time I put into it. Also, if I'm happy with the topic.

Laurie: Did you copy your first acceptance check and frame your article?

Joan: No, I don't think I did. I cashed it fast!

Laurie: When a magazine publishes your article more than once, do you get paid again?

Joan: Usually I get paid 50% for the second time around. But if a few years have passed, the price is more because they're paying more. In other words 50% of the current price. Or 50% of what they get for selling it somewhere.

MODERATOR: Changing gears here: what can you tell us about your program PLAYING THE WRITING GAME?

Joan: This is a creative writing program for elementary and middle-grade children. Children learn to write by playing the game and have such fun doing so. As the old proverb says, "A wise teacher makes learning a joy."

MODERATOR: When you say "playing the game," is this an actual game you invented?

Joan: It's not really a game, but the kids feel it is by the way it's prepared and presented. They are learning how to write, query, revise, submit, and write effectively all as part of this unique educational program. They feel it's a game because they are having such fun.

MODERATOR: Sounds neat! I can tell by the comments I'm getting sent to the moderator that you inspire your students. How do you help both students and children believe in their writing ability?

Joan: Children (and grownups, too) need to believe that what they have to say is worthwhile. I try to encourage this belief, and that it's okay to express their feelings, hoped, and dreams in writing.

MODERATOR: I see that you've had books published in New Zealand, Australia, Germany, Sweden, and Denmark. How did that come about?

Joan: One of my books (SHADOW BEAR) was translated into several languages, because the original publisher DOUBLEDAY arranged it. THE MYSTERIOUS DR. CHEN was submitted by me directly to a New Zealand educational publisher. It is now available in the US & Canada. Another book ( a mystery of YA) is under consideration at this time by a publisher in Ireland,. It was submitted to them because of the Celtic subject matter. (That's one I'm hoping to sell--one that I spoke of earlier.)

MODERATOR: How did your work come to be published in school books and anthologies?

Joan: Some of my magazine stories were seen by educational publishers and they wrote to me directly for permission to use the piece. In some cases all rights were originally sold to magazines. However, upon request they did give me (and the educational publisher) one time book rights, and therefore the story or article was sold again. In some cases the magazine only took one-time rights, and so I could sell the story again. One of my articles for COBBLESTONE was sold to R.R. Bowker (and arranged for by COBBLESTONE) for Bowker's anthology OF CABBAGES & KINGS 2 "The Year's Best Magazine Writings for Kids."

(AT THIS TIME, GO TO PART 2 OF JOAN'S INTERVIEW)

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